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Future Seasons: Restoring Character Differences and Customer Confidence

mreeves7amreeves7a Member Posts: 499 Arc User
While the recent minor emphasis on bug squashing is a breath of fresh air, there is still a ways to go to get the game back on track for the long term.

This gets long, so a preemptive thanks to those who will make it all the way through.

The Future:
The next season/expansion (or the one after that given that the next is likely already under development) needs to take a step back from finding the bigger, badder threat and look inward. A 'Home' season would also provide a chance to flesh out faction ship rosters and put some effort into giving a bit of diversity back to the factions.

Story wise, there are a lot of dropped threads to be fleshed out. The Federation has dozens of worlds recovering from various threats/conflicts, perhaps not all are so enthusiastic about remaining a part of the Federation. The Starfleet players could be send to investigate/resolve a conflict with Federation break-away groups. The KDF has a long standing unresolved story line: the origins of the Fek'lhri we fight, and there is the ever present game of intrigue between the Great Houses. The Republic could always use new allies and perhaps the now leaderless Romulan Star Navy could be persuaded into a sort of alliance, at least until Sela returns or investigations into what has become of the Tal Shair post-Hakeev.

Home Season Repuation:
The Reputation for this season should also really be 3 reps, one for each faction. Each faction's rep should focus on adding thematic and faction appropriate bonuses and gear (i.e. Starfleet Science Council ship gear set, Starfleet Intelligence space armament set, Starfleet Security ground set, Ty'gokor ship gear set, Yan-Isleth ground set, etc) and faction unique rep traits (KDF traits to focus on resilience in combat or close-quarters combat, RRF traits to concentrate on ambush/stealth).

Home Season Specializations:
Assuming a solution to the spec-system/alt issues can be found, we could use some differences injected back into the player careers. Career specific spec lines (primary status limited to that career, but any career can use it as a secondary), and faction specific secondary specs would go a very long way into nurture different ways to play the game and encourage folks to play multiple combinations of faction/career. Maybe we can break some folks out of their Starfleet-Tac Syndrome. The second of the specs could also be utilized for career specific captain power buffs (i.e. Sensor Scan also reduces shield hardness by x% based on Aux level).

For example: Tactical Specialist: a field of buffs to encourage using multiple weapon types (beam/cannon/torp/mine), striking foes weakpoints to lower their combat threat to allies and for additional damage, general weapons mastery, an active power to summon defense drones that focus on torps/pets in space and turrets/drones/other summons on ground while taking pot shots at other foes. (i.e. Diversified Weaponry I/II/III: +2.5/5/7.5% all damage for each type of weapon equipped (beam, cannon, torpedo, mine))

Science Specialist: an array of buffs focused on CC and exotic damage in space, healing and CC on ground, active power to provide at range rez/rez-on-death ala the Adrenaline Hypo for both space and ground (i.e. Wide Focus Emitters I/II/III: Single target Science BOff powers gain a 1/2/3 km radius sphere AOE (Tractor Beam, Tachyon Beam, Viral Matrix, Energy Siphon)).

Engineering Specialist: benefits to buff self based on taking/dodging damage directed at you, stacking damage/crit buffs for dodging damage, improvements to healing power when taking damage, resistance to CC, subsystem offlines in particular, active power for Overcharge All Weapons: fires Hyper-Charge grade beam blasts, withering cannon barrages, Torpedo Burst that puts the Armitage's console to shame, but at the cost of reduce All Damage for a period of time afterwards. (i.e. Roll With It I/II/III: When struck by energy weapon damage on ground and while executing a roll, take no damage but gain a +x% damage bonus for 5/10/15 seconds after the roll)).

Starfleet, KDF, and RRF secondary specs (ground) to push thematic buids/features; Starfleet: allow teammates to absorb damage for each other, KDF: push melee/close quarters damage, movement speed to get into CQC range, RRF: Mini-Singularity derived buffs, i.e. adds push effect to heals to clear space around weaken teammates, etc.

The above would be like turning STO into a new game, one with 9 player "classes" (faction-career combinations) vs. the current situation where there is basically 2: Fed-Tac and then Everyone Else.


Customer Confidence:
Will the expansion of ship tiers and levels, there has a been a very strong sense of cautiousness about purchasing new ships (especially those that require some gambling to acquire). The Dev team can address this quite effectively by redefining what the difference is between T5U and T6: change it so that T5U and T6 have the same number of boff powers and consoles, but restrict specialist boff slots and the ships' specializations (Intel Active Sensors, Command Inspiration, Pilot Maneuvers) for T6 (Guardian, Dauntless, Pathfinder, Iconics, etc would need some buffs to raw stats to make up for the lack of ship specialization).

Second, an effort to add the new passive bonuses to all the previous, non passive consoles (i.e. Leech, Valdore, mode changing consoles like Saucer Sep or Annihilator Mode wouldn't recieve the bonuses since the are already passives). My suggestion would be +kill points for T1-4 consoles ala the Ionized Gas Sensor's buff to Sensors skill, and +stat% for T5+ consoles. (i.e. +12 Particle Generators and Grav Gens for Nadeon Detonator on the Long-Range Science Refit, -30% hangar cooldown on the Kar'fi's Phase Shift Generator).

The Third effort to rebuild some confidence would be small buffs to pre-T6 ships and early C-store options to close the gap between new and old so it isn't such a chasm anymore. (i.e. give the Atrox a console or unique weapon since recent releases have shown that a unique pet alone isn't "special" or a console for the B'rel to allow it to make a foe fire a torp at a ally of theirs).

Lastly would be to ensure that all factions have the "big three" ship types covered at the highest tier; so that means science ships with the full feature package for KDF and RRF. Then you use the peculiar hybrids and specialized ships for the faction flavor. As it stands now, the lack of science vessels for 2 of the 3 factions is like having 2/3 of the mages in a game without a staff... And before the "Klingons r dum" crowd rears it's ugly head, stop being the fools you claim the KDF are; afterall, when was the last time you took your Starfleet Science Vessel on a survey mission and not a space-magic killfest? Science ships in game aren't exclusively research platforms, but warships that just happen to fight with gear other than all weapons.


STO has a lot of potential, but recently we've been struggling to keep up with the unbelievable assault on our alts and the near total focus on Starfleet options and assets. It's time to remember the other 2 factions ingame as more than the Angry Red Federation and Evil Green Min-maxer alpha boats. The prevalence of Starfleet-Tac over every other combination of faction and career is getting insane, we need a game where RRF-Eng and KDF-Sci have just as much a place in the limelight as Starfleet-Tac does.


(I told ya it was long, thanks for reading the whole thing!)
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • edited May 2015
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  • rikwesselsrikwessels Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    good ideas . What has always bothered me as well is that your choice of race - right at the very start- has little or no impact on gameplay ( apart from traits ). When you made a vulcan captain your shuttle is still being hailed as "federation shuttle " in the tutorial diplomatic mission. Obisek still tries to kill you in "the vault "even though you're Reman .

    As I stated elsewhere : we have all those unused homeworlds which would be great to utilize in an upcoming expansion . As an Andorian you'd get a hail from the Andorian homeworld for a mission etc.

    as for ships : you can have race-specific vessels ( would it bother folks if ship was bound to race ? I don't know ,if the balance is good ) . Imagine the sense of immersion then ...

    It would actually matter what race you picked at the very start of the game ...



    I also like your ideas to bridge the gap between T5 and T6 ships in a sensible way . I have contemplated buying upgrade tokens but am seeing all kinds of threads to "not bother , b/c it will all become T6" ...would be nice if Cryptic were to outline their plans with regard to this so we know if we should bother .


    Folks spending $$$ on ships not even a year ago might feel shafted as it is now ...
  • puttenhamputtenham Member Posts: 1,052 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Here we go again with the trinity craporama. How hard is it to look at Star Trek and realize that nothing of the sort has ever appeared in any Trek series or movie ever? Not even once? And yet this World of Warcrapt system infests this game, despite having no relation to Star Trek in any way whatsoever. It needs to die.

    There are no ships in Star Trek that are built for tanking or healing, it doesn't happen. Captains aren't science officers, or engineers, or tactical officers, they're the commanding officer. You as Captain sit in the center chair and make decisions, delegate responsibility, and act as basically the central nerve cluster for the ship. You don't fire the weapons, you're not a tactical officer --that's the person at the tac console. You're not an engineer, you don't fix things. Your engineer is down in the engine room where they belong. You're not a science officer, that person is at the science station reporting to you what the sensors see.

    Command IS your career path. And command means you can't overspecialize, you have to maintain a general proficiency in multiple areas or else you're useless. You can't be a doctor, or an engineer, or a gunner, or a scientist --you have to be able to coordinate those people. And you have to rely on them to do their jobs in specialized fields you can't begin to match their knowledge of. Command means you have to be the proverbial jack of all trades, master of none.

    We have Specializations now, which cover the idea that during your schooling you gravitated to certain majors and performed better in certain areas than others. This makes sense, people are individuals and most will be better at some things than others and take more training and display more skill in certain areas over others. That's just fine. That's what we should have.

    But we have Specializations AND Career Path, when the latter makes no sense for a commanding officer. You can't be both the Engineer and the Captain. If you were a good enough Engineer and not enough of everything else you'd be down in the engine room, not on the bridge in the center chair. Career Paths need to go.

    So does the idea of ships for tanking and healing roles. Perhaps ONE class of dedicated support ships as an option, a Specialization ship. Maybe add it to Command, since that's about group support to begin with. But this isn't Warcrapt! Fantasy roles from that game and it's countless imitators don't belong in Star Trek, period at all ever.

    Ships should be based on what an actual Starfleet would build for naval roles. Mostly we see general purpose cruisers in the series, and in gameplay terms from other more appropriate genres that's your "middle road" craft that is medium in all things and excels in none. Others would trend towards "lightning bruiser" and "mighty glacier" in those terms. That's how ships should be organized, not by roles shoehorned in from World of Warcrapt.

    Warcrapt. I just like saying that.

    WARCRAPT.

    i agree with some of what you say, but not all. give ******** its due, it held the attention of roughly 9 million more people than sto ever will for a long time.. its not just because of orcs and wizards and goblins.. its because they found perhaps one of the best patterns (or formulas) for making content. and look, when it sold out, and they changed how the game was run, people left. sto has "never" had the heartbeat of the players as a whole, nore will it i am afraid to say. even when they get close, they find a way to over do it, or not doing what worked. sto's biggest problem is they don't focus on what is accepted and well liked, instead, they keep looking for the next big thing to add to the game.

    ill agree that the career paths and specializations kind of clash. but Janeway was a scientist who pretty much schooled everyone on the ship as far as sciences go. picard was an archeologist who schooled everyone on that (god i would hate to get archeology as a career in sto lol). kirk was just a god, and sisko was more a tactical officer. however, i am not disagreeing that the career paths should go for at least space. cause the show was always about the crew, and a melting pot of their ideas and talents. star trek should be the same. when im in space and fighting, it should be about what my boffs and doffs bring to the table.. not me. all of my career abilities should buff what my boffs and doffs do. but the larger problem isn't career paths, its more about the lack of gameplay options we have.

    this game is basically only a dps race at the moment.. i mean almost every single new item we have gotten has leaned more towards dps.. every single optional objective is hell bent on defeating enemies in a short amount of time.. even most of the design of instances and story missions is based on a dps race.

    while I agree that the holy trinity is a bit over used, there is a gaggle of other things this game could do. I for one find the idea of a ship being a healer kinda ridiculous and unrealistic. sure extend shields is cool, and even the various teams (like sci team or eng. team) is a cool way of creating a healing class, but me shooting a beam of energy at a ship should not heal it..

    what im getting at is that while it doesn't need to be the holy trinity, there has to be a reason for each type of ship or specialization to be in a group. objectives should be "destroy the dreadnaught in 2 minutes" all the time. they should be fun and incorporate other parts of the game.. and I don't mean to go and scan an anomaly, and sci cruisers can do it faster.. it should focus around using abilities that we have in situations.. if you want us to close a gate, have us activate a skill like tachyon beam or something to seal it.

    what made fights in wow fun, was you had to work together as a team, and not just to do a TRIBBLE ton of dps, but to buff/debuff things, do the safety dance in a boss fight, kite adds around so they don't streangthen the boss or kill the group, activate multiple objectives to weaken the boss and so on and so forth. in sto there is almost none of this, and what we did have (ie, infected space, kitohmer, etc has been replaced by a dps race.

    so yes, I agree, the holy trinity has no place here, but we do need more than a dps race. the most boring aspect of this game is that it is spacebar online. all I need to do is press space bar a ton of times and i basically win.. sure, you need to activate some skills, but i have had moments where im eating, or on the phone and i just push space bar and win... that should never, ever happen in a game ever.. when i played wow many moons ago, if i was distracted my team and myself more than likely died or came close.

    also, you obviously have watched very little star trek, it happened more than you think as far as tactics and the use of certain ships to obtain certain goals.. a quick glairing example would be ds9. during the dominion war on several occasions sisko would have galaxies protect flanks and hold the line, not just because they were powerfull, but because they could get up close and deliver punishment while taking punishment, while all the smalle ships got into the fray. on several occasions picard also structured fleets or a group of ships to have certain roles in a battle.. also the Hathaway played tricks on a ferangi vessel (a tactic and a role in all sense of the terms) to give the enterprise a chance to do its thing. i can go on, but ive written enough.
  • bwemobwemo Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    The idea of the holy trinity dates back to long before wow. Kids these days.


    You have three captains, each which its own area of expertise. Tac = Damage. Sci = Magic and shields. Eng = Huge beefy hulls and lots of extra power. The idea was originally designed into the games underpinning to use the trinity. However, the AI in this game is so atrocious that you don't need to tank anything. You don't need a dedicated healer/ccer. All you need is faw and apa, and some recluses stacking up apb beyond what a player can do and bam, you have the **** hole that is pve in this game. Some of you enjoy it, but, to each their own.

    Trinity can't exist in a game where the AI is stationary target dummies, because all you need is deeps. GG great game design. :rolleyes:
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  • timpantstimpants Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    It doesn't matter how many people like Warcrapt, it's not Star Trek. It has nothing to do with Star Trek and ideas that work there have no place in a game that represents Star Trek. We're supposed to be playing Starfleet / Klingon / etc Captains, not anything else. What works to more accurately and enjoyably portray Star Trek in a playable game format is what is needed and what does not suit that goal should be discarded, regardless of where it came from and how popular it is there. If it's not Star Trek, it doesn't belong, period not no way not no how.

    You describe Picard and Janeway's secondary areas of interest, that's Specializations. Those are a great thing to flesh out captains and differentiate them from one another, and fit the setting. Career Paths for Captains are trinity classes from Warcrapt and don't belong.

    You then describe battles in DS9 and they use NAVAL tactics, not trinity ones. Nobody is the assigned healer, tank, or DPS. Big heavy ships do what big heavy ships do in naval engagements, and lighter faster ships with good firepower for their weight do what they do, etc. Naval tactics, not trinity mechanics. The former belongs in Star Trek, not the latter.

    Keep Warcrapt out of Star trek.

    But by your argument, most of the game should be changed completely or thrown out. In Star Trek people only came back to life in very extraordinary circumstances, so perma death needs to be implemented. Loot shouldn't be dropped by enemies when they die, because I don't remember the Enterprise ever picking up an epic phaser bank after killing some Klingons. Levels and skill points need to be removed, I don't remember Sisko ever sitting in his room allocating his skill points. Any why do I have to buy ships? I'm pretty sure Janeway never had to buy Voyager.

    The thing you seem to be ignoring is that games have to make some story sacrifices in order to be fun. The trinity is a tried and true method in MMORPGs. It's like how FPSs will have medkits that work automatically rather than making you sit your character and manually apply bandages because that would be really boring. Or how 4X games will compress the many different resources a functioning society needs to operate into 4 or 5, because it's much easier to manage for a single person (IE you the player) to manage.
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Here we go again with the trinity craporama

    I have to stop you here, just because he's using the class system Cryptic made to promote different kinds of play doesn't have any baring on his position as regards trinity play. Lets be honest now, what reason is there to play anything that isn't a tac/cruiser these days? I mean, sci/scorts would be a thing if pvp weren't being ground into the ground by the devs and maybe eng/sci might work if NPC hull and damage were better balanced.

    But as it is now, there is no incentive to play anything that doesn't garner the maximum amount of dps, class and faction specific skill trees does exactly that, it incentivises different play styles which can only really be a good thing.

    Having now repeated myself because I'm tired and it's too late for coffee, just don't call someone a trinity enthusiast simply because they propose something that uses the trinity elements already in the game.
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • puttenhamputtenham Member Posts: 1,052 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    It doesn't matter how many people like Warcrapt, it's not Star Trek. It has nothing to do with Star Trek and ideas that work there have no place in a game that represents Star Trek. We're supposed to be playing Starfleet / Klingon / etc Captains, not anything else. What works to more accurately and enjoyably portray Star Trek in a playable game format is what is needed and what does not suit that goal should be discarded, regardless of where it came from and how popular it is there. If it's not Star Trek, it doesn't belong, period not no way not no how.

    You describe Picard and Janeway's secondary areas of interest, that's Specializations. Those are a great thing to flesh out captains and differentiate them from one another, and fit the setting. Career Paths for Captains are trinity classes from Warcrapt and don't belong.

    You then describe battles in DS9 and they use NAVAL tactics, not trinity ones. Nobody is the assigned healer, tank, or DPS. Big heavy ships do what big heavy ships do in naval engagements, and lighter faster ships with good firepower for their weight do what they do, etc. Naval tactics, not trinity mechanics. The former belongs in Star Trek, not the latter.

    Keep Warcrapt out of Star trek.

    firstly, being someone who was an officer in the us navy, I don't need to be lectured on naval tactics and trinity mechanics.. that being said, I wasn't saying that sisko was playing a video game with a holy trinity.. but.. he used the galaxy classes to open a hole up, and keep it open, he chose galaxy classes and other larger cruisers because not only did they have the offensive means to do it, but more than likely because they had the ability to hang in long enough to keep the door open. that is not a trinity, no, but it is a tactic.. the trinity is more or less a means to tactics.. but I don't think you understand the holy trinity, its one in the same as tactics. other games have their own versions of a trinity, (or in rifts case its more than a trinity) but you have to stop looking at it as a wow thing only.. cause its not.. its an mmo thing. star trek online is an mmo, not a console 1 or 2 player game., not an offline single player game, and not a boardgame.

    the idea of an mmo is to make peeps work together. the idea of the holy trinity is to create tactics and a way to create new and interesting ways for peeps to achieve goals. .. as someone who did play wow for a long time, you have to have a plan on each fight.. the holy trinity was just a way to make it a three dimensional fight so to say. like naval tactics.. you need a plan before you jump in.. larger ships usually keep back, smaller ships usually head forward, subs do their thing underwater, and aircraft fight from above. (in the modern day navy, I don't think there will be any close range combat anymore, since most ships have misiles and guns that can fire miles now.. lol).. but.. the idea is there, you coordinate your attack.. that's what the trinity is, a reason to have coordination, a reason to have to think tactics..

    again, im not saying we need the "wow trinity" but we need a trinity or something like it that works in sto. im not trying to say that sto needs to be like wow, im not saying wow would work for sto. what I am saying is that sto compared to wow is a failing game. it has a revolving door of players, who lose interest in usually less than a year.. Christ, we just had the dr event to try and grab more players.. they keep catering to new players and ignoring endgame because endgame players are the minority. and while its a visually stunning game, and has some great content, it doesn't live up to an mmo (which it is marketed as) and it doesn't have engaging content (generally do to the fact that everything is the same old same old as far as the game being a huge dps race).

    don't get me wrong, I am in no way shape or form lobbying for a healer/tank/dps trinity. if it happens cool. but I think we can both agree that sto needs more than just a dps spec/build/class/game design/game. the whole game, weather you think it or not, is based on a big dps race. there is zero tactics in this game that take more than a brain cell or two to pull off.

    its not about orcs and humans, humans and klinks.. its about creating the right content. I only use wow as an example, because they did it right for their genre. (well the first half of the life of that game anyways lol) ******** had the forumula for success for their genre (what I meant to say lol) sto has failed time and time and time again to deliver a well thought out, long term fun, challenging mmo. the key word is mmo. and mmo by definition is a massive multi online player game. one would think that you would be able to work together with other people to achieve a goal.. in this game, you team up with people, and you don't even have to talk to them, or have a game plan.. its all easy mode.. and then cryptics way of making it harder is adding more npc's, or creating a larger dps race that makes you fail if you don't hit it.. neither of those are the answer..

    the answer is creating worthwhile content, that has sustainability, and incorporates more than just a dps goal or mentality. sure, make it so you have to blow stuff up, but also make things that people "have" to work together to conquer. thus, game mechanics.. thus, while it doesn't have to be a holy trinity, there does need to be different ways of playing the game, and different classes or whatever you want to call it.. if ******** was just palidins and no other classes, it would fail.

    and no, those were not their "secondary" interests.. before janeway became a captain, she was a science officer.. and unlike this game, she wasn't a captain straight out of the academy. she probably spent at least 15 to 20 years getting to the captains chair.. that is more than just a secondary area of interest. that's a career.. but, I feel as if the captain should enhance the boff and doffs abilities.. again, the basis of star trek was the captain working and leading his/her crew (as you said) I agree whole heartedly with you that how we command our ships and crew needs an overhaul...

    again guy, not trying to bring wow into sto, but I would like to see more mmo in sto, and I would like to see more "veriety". after all, this is the first ever star trek mmo, and so far it hasn't been a good star trek game, nor a good mmo. I know I take several months at a time off just because it has gotten very very stale.. however, I did play wow for more than 7 years regularly. and I love star trek more than any form of dungeons and dragons anyday.. I want to see this game succeed, I think the reason I still play from time to time is I want it to be good.

    I think everyone can agre this game needs some serious help. even wow needs help at this moment in time. lol, but im just trying to say that when some of us refer to the trinity, we don't mean it has to be the exact same as blizzards, or anyone elses, but we do need one of some sort that works, and works for sto.
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    OMG!!!! :eek:

    Its the most trollific thing ive ever seen in the history of ever ....The wall of text thread :eek:

    Its so huge with so many words its buttifull :cool:
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    mreeves7a wrote: »
    <i will place my idea about the future of this game in a wall of death text>

    while there are some things that cryptic could look into in some of what you wrote there, for the most part cryptic has always done want cryptic wants. if i were you, i wouldnt hold my breath on most of it.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • walshicuswalshicus Member Posts: 1,314 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    valoreah wrote: »
    I believe you mean ship class and not career path. The captain career paths were never designed to be a "traditional" trinity IMO.

    Sure they were. Just not so much in space.
    http://mmo-economics.com - analysing the economic interactions in MMOs.
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  • narthaisnarthais Member Posts: 452 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Needed, no, but there were put in as capable anyway.
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    In order to stimulate a more diverse gameplay (not talking about trinity here), Missions had to be made much more diverse themselves imo.

    (Almost) everything can be done with more firepower, but what about introducing some missions where the goal is to hold off a (unbeateable) enemy ship long enough for a certain amount of time?
    Or protect some ships from space hazard (without fighting at all :eek:). The possibilities are almost endless but cryptic devs only offer basicly the same mission goal: kill the enemy as fast as you can. "yawn"

    As it is now, the best most people can do is park and shoot (FAW or cannons doesn't matter), not very fun thing to do imo.
    My point is where is no incentive there is no need to do things different.
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    walshicus wrote: »
    Sure they were. Just not so much in space.

    Till DR ground meta:

    Eng= Damage, tank
    Sci = Tank, (heal), Debuffer, Damage
    Tac= Support, Damage

    Sci were always a jack-of-all-trades, and it dps could rival a tacs on ground (tacs got better modules since DR, so they are now ahead).
    Sci and eng could play tank, with the sci clearly having an advantage.
    Tac was always about teambuffing and contributing damage. Even now a good tac has 3 supportabilities in his kits.
    Engineers with mines and bombs were and are damagedealers on ground, playing them as tanks are just a huge waste of potential imo. If they are better or not in this regard against tacs is up to the team, if tacs know what to do and watch there buffs, their synergies can lead to outdamaging a eng. If there is only a single tac on the team, the eng is destined to be damageleader in the end (except of course he sucks).

    So, tacs aside, everyone can play more than one role. Like in space they have inherent captain abilities, but what makes them playing a role are their kits (the equivalent of ships in space).

    And just to make it more shady, even tacs can heal (they already could prior to motivation). There is one role which every class exceeds (Eng=DPS, Tac=Support-dps, Sci=Debuff-dps) and thats working like three years now. A sci without a heal can wonderfully contribute to the team (far more than the healers that just heal themselves but call themselves "I dont do dps I just heal"), while a tac can be very robust towards damage and still dish out damage. The engineer is pretty much the best hybrid of robustness and high dps. Especially the old maco/kgh-equipment is boosting your defenses a ton, alone with those two-set-boni.
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  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited May 2015

    And that is why this game fails,no end game where you can get your gear and no diversity.
    You want dps,fine that is all you can play...you want to upgrade your gear? Sure go ahead and craft your eyes out because in this game you cant farm for it.

    Cant be so bad, seeing as you are still here...

    bwemo wrote: »
    The idea of the holy trinity dates back to long before wow. Kids these days.


    You have three captains, each which its own area of expertise. Tac = Damage. Sci = Magic and shields. Eng = Huge beefy hulls and lots of extra power. The idea was originally designed into the games underpinning to use the trinity. However, the AI in this game is so atrocious that you don't need to tank anything. You don't need a dedicated healer/ccer. All you need is faw and apa, and some recluses stacking up apb beyond what a player can do and bam, you have the **** hole that is pve in this game. Some of you enjoy it, but, to each their own.

    Trinity can't exist in a game where the AI is stationary target dummies, because all you need is deeps. GG great game design. :rolleyes:

    There are many ideas and philosophical theories that date back a long time ago. Doesnt make them any better.
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    valoreah wrote: »
    STO never had "trinity" play and it most likely never will. All careers are more than capable at healing, DPS, debuffs etc.
    Which is a good thing thb!
    (Engineer ist still to tamely imo. Ground is too Slow and space is only managing ships energy or resists)

    On the other hand, it was awful enough to fly a Cruiser in the first few years, when they where pretending to keep up the trinity.
    Nowadays it's still pretty boring to fly one since there's not much else to do but to FAW the enemy, but at least you don't hinder the rest of the team when flying one of those FAW ships. (other types, like Escorts and Science offer more diverse builds)
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Hmmm,wish i could say your post was the same as the last part of your forum name but as a comeback i give it a 1/10.

    Just because im here doesnt mean i cant complain or/and form an opinion about things that i dont like,i do enjoy playing my tac/pilot escort combo but that is all that this game offers,want to tank...well sorry cant do it....let me rephrase you can but there is no need for it so why do it?
    want to heal? yeah you can do that but as with tanking there really isnt a need for it.

    Well, go pugging, and you will see that you need to be able to tank. And of course to dps. Because you will encounter both only rarily in pugs. Healing is the only thing you wont really need (except for yourself).

    Now, imagine that with an trinity-setup, where you have to depend on your teammates to do there jobs. Fortunately, now that is -except on elite- the case.

    Make this game a trinity-one, and you will drive out all casuals and the queues will be dead. Even more dead than after DR, and they just recovered.
    This game was never designed around trinity, peoply arent accostumed to hit. Change that and its the same as making a Football-division to a Handball-division. You wont really have much of the original team left afterwards.
  • majesticmsfcmajesticmsfc Member Posts: 1,401 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Great ideas OP, I fully support them.

    I did sit down a read the lot and I can say the things you suggest are far better than everything that has come out since LOR. It's by time that the factions became unique again and all that cross faction Federation POV TRIBBLE is removed from the Romulans and Klingons and they are given missions that are made for them.

    Love the idea about classes, to be honest for a long time I have wondered why they even bothered offering classes. I think it should had been more like specializations once you reach a particular rank and you can choose to be an intelligence officer, tactical officer etc. There need to be a lot more depth in this game, as really I can see a lot of people's point of view of just running on a single faction. Plus the costs of ships really weighs into this as well. It's better value for money to stick with one faction rather than try and progress on all 3.
    Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
  • mreeves7amreeves7a Member Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Great ideas OP, I fully support them.

    I did sit down a read the lot and I can say the things you suggest are far better than everything that has come out since LOR. It's by time that the factions became unique again and all that cross faction Federation POV TRIBBLE is removed from the Romulans and Klingons and they are given missions that are made for them.

    Love the idea about classes, to be honest for a long time I have wondered why they even bothered offering classes. I think it should had been more like specializations once you reach a particular rank and you can choose to be an intelligence officer, tactical officer etc. There need to be a lot more depth in this game, as really I can see a lot of people's point of view of just running on a single faction. Plus the costs of ships really weighs into this as well. It's better value for money to stick with one faction rather than try and progress on all 3.

    Thanks for taking the time to read the whole thing, not sure how they managed to turn "option to specialize" into "forced into trinity"...

    Lately I've been tiring of the "Same" Trek Online that anything group/team based has become. The options to use some faction and career based switches gives a chance for actual variability in builds and players you encounter. I would rather have a STF with 5 different build styles than an STF with me (sci in a exotic damage sci ship) and 4 variants of FAW-FAW-FAW as 'teammates' (teammates being used loosely because they are more a hazard the mission than the NPCs sometimes...).
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