How is it "pay to win" when you can get everything in game through actual gameplay?
And what are you winning?
That depends. But you need to look at the STO playerbase as a whole.
You know how RNG it is to get a Promo/Lockbox Ship from opening the appropriate items. If one were to do this via C-Store Purchases using the free ingame means, how much Dil do you think it will cost a player? Especially at the Dil Exchange Rates going these days? People are complaining on the Dil cost to upgrade Non-Reputation equipment.
Or, if a player isn't going to play the box opening shennanigans and say, "I'll save up the EC to get my Sheshar this time." Good move! But how much EC is it going to cost? The Sheshar the first time around was hotly pursued. It was briefly on the exchange but disappeared so it was going 500m+. I have no doubt the new version will be just as pricey because people wanted the Sheshar.
You know for a fact that the majority of players out there are complaining about things costing in the few millions. You know for a fact that there are many players out there that can never even afford a Plasmonic Leech Console for their Fed/Fed-Rom. You know for a fact that players complain about the cost of some current Lockbox/Lobi ships on the exchange costing over 120m. The Sheshar dwarves most ships out there in what prices they will fetch.
There is a P2W element in STO. Not as bad as some F2P games blatantly are, but it's there. And the Dil Exchange Rate has not gone in the player's favor as time has gone on if he wants to "Stay Free."
I've bought 4 R&D packs (thus 16 containers) and nothing, just lobi crystals.
How much money will one have to spend in order to acquire the dreadnought?
That's the problem.
Maybe I'll get it if I buy just one more R&D pack, maybe I'll have to buy dozens more.
Well, I give up. Spending on a ship pack seems to be more reasonable, at least the ships will be mine for sure.
This hide and seek game of R&D packs may be too expensive.
Selling the stuff from the boxes and the Lobi store and buying it off the exchange is the only guaranteed way to get one.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
You guys need to stop freaking busting out all these worthless same-3d-model ships and start working on more original content, FFS! So every now and then we are going to be getting a silly ship that is already in the game with just one new texture, one hanger bay, 1 new master V trait and that's it?
Come on man, I can be more original then that!
If anything, if you are going to be going back to revamping ships like you are doing at the moment already with the last JHAS and this thing, how about revamping ships that really do need ravamping? Like the Multi-Vector Assault Escort for example... And how about you guys start bring out more ships that are already in the game with pilot seats, I mean I would love to have a Wells Temporal Science Vessel with pilot seats in it, I don't even care if it isn't T6.
God, lets do something different, or at least something good that makes since, not the same BS every freaking update.
¬¬"
If you've spent significantly more than 108 dollars on zen to get a Sheshar, you've made a mistake.
Expect the mistake to always be there, or are you forgetting the epic drop rate of items from boxes in this game... I spent freaking $230.00 just buying the R&D packs alone trying to just get one JHAS T6 and I never got one. Never again, never again.
:rolleyes:
That's exactly what I thought. Capitalism, folks, greedy greedy.
You both are freaking idiots and have no idea WTF you are saying, save yourself and uninstall.
But also beameddown, you should know that as the game gets older and better ships come out, it was destined that the ships that are T5 will not go up against anything anymore. Hell, in a few more years we are probably riding T8 ships, where the heck do you leave T5s then? If you going to type something down, at least think before you go all typer-happy.
I've bought 4 R&D packs (thus 16 containers) and nothing, just lobi crystals.
How much money will one have to spend in order to acquire the dreadnought?
That's the problem.
Maybe I'll get it if I buy just one more R&D pack, maybe I'll have to buy dozens more.
Well, I give up. Spending on a ship pack seems to be more reasonable, at least the ships will be mine for sure.
This hide and seek game of R&D packs may be too expensive.
Iv'e never spent too much on the promos, always stop myself at 8 containers and move on,its just like picking a number on the roulette wheel or dabo your chances are slim but it's fun to play. But this time around on my last box i won! What a sweet feeling only cost me 1600 zen. So if you treat this like a real gambling experience and have fun with it, you really can't lose. But if you treat it like i have to have it you are just playing into the house's hands.
You guys need to stop freaking busting out all these worthless same-3d-model ships and start working on more original content, FFS! So every now and then we are going to be getting a silly ship that is already in the game with just one new texture, one hanger bay, 1 new master V trait and that's it?
Come on man, I can be more original then that!
If anything, if you are going to be going back to revamping ships like you are doing at the moment already with the last JHAS and this thing, how about revamping ships that really do need ravamping? Like the Multi-Vector Assault Escort for example... And how about you guys start bring out more ships that are already in the game with pilot seats, I mean I would love to have a Wells Temporal Science Vessel with pilot seats in it, I don't even care if it isn't T6.
God, lets do something different, or at least something good that makes since, not the same BS every freaking update.
¬¬"
Hahahaha! You bash Cryptic for bringing out new versions of "same-3d-model" ships but then go on a tirade that the Prometheus, Temporal Science Vessel should be getting the T6 Pilot treatment. Doing the exact same thing you're complaining about
You both are freaking idiots and have no idea WTF you are saying, save yourself and uninstall.
Just because I don't agree with you doesn' mean I am an idiot.
Maybe it is you who should uninstall and in the meantime go see a shrink.
Just read a little about capitalism and maybe, maybe you will understand the irony.
Seems like you are the one who have no idea what we are talking about.
By the way, outstanding argumentation (this is another irony, in case you didn' get it)
Even so, have a nice day, and less anger in your heart.
(don't forget the shrink, you really need one, after all it's just a game)
Iv'e never spent too much on the promos, always stop myself at 8 containers and move on,its just like picking a number on the roulette wheel or dabo your chances are slim but it's fun to play. But this time around on my last box i won! What a sweet feeling only cost me 1600 zen. So if you treat this like a real gambling experience and have fun with it, you really can't lose. But if you treat it like i have to have it you are just playing into the house's hands.
What's the drop rate on the dreadnaught, cause I'm 20 boxes in and no luck.
What's the drop rate on the dreadnaught, cause I'm 20 boxes in and no luck.
Statistically speaking, about every 200 or so box from what I've read across the forum. Don't quote me on this though. But then again, some open 1, some open 1000...
Statistically speaking, about every 200 or so box from what I've read across the forum. Don't quote me on this though. But then again, some open 1, some open 1000...
You could open 1000, 2000 or even 3000 boxes and potentially get no ship.
Rng is rng, built for the rich or incredibly stupid...
I can imagine a bunch of cigar smoking executives in a conference room in China looking at a flat screen that projects how much money per hour people are spending on the R&D packs in a hopeless attempt to get the command variant of the ship and taking bets on how much money players will blow on the packs.
My advice is just buy it with EC and avoid spending hundreds of dollars on the packs.
I can imagine a bunch of cigar smoking executives in a conference room in China looking at a flat screen that projects how much money per hour people are spending on the R&D packs in a hopeless attempt to get the command variant of the ship and taking bets on how much money players will blow on the packs.
My advice is just buy it with EC and avoid spending hundreds of dollars on the packs.
Don't forget, they're using money to light those cigars. ;P
I can imagine a bunch of cigar smoking executives in a conference room in China looking at a flat screen that projects how much money per hour people are spending on the R&D packs in a hopeless attempt to get the command variant of the ship and taking bets on how much money players will blow on the packs.
My advice is just buy it with EC and avoid spending hundreds of dollars on the packs.
But then my sense of ethic might have come in the way.
I can't wait to see the release of the pilot JHAS.
Yea solid point here trendy. If re-re-releasing ships with different boff specialization layouts becomes the next norm for your company to earn money wouldnt it be time to go a bit further as well?
I mean a tier 6 JHSS with a lt. commander pilot instead of a lt. commander Intel seat you may keep but a tier 6 JHSS with 5/2 gun ports and the pilot manoeuvring abilities may be cool.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I will repeat what I said 10 or so pages ago. Adapted Destroyer with Intel seats.
Tal Shiar are in league with the Iconians.
Also Temporal Command Cruiser, different hulls for each faction. if you made lockbox ships that we're faction appropriate to the character opening them I think many many many people would be happy.
Thanks for the Advanced Light Cruiser, Allied Escort Bundles, Jem-Hadar Light Battlecruiser, and Mek'leth
New Content Wishlist
T6 updates for the Kamarag & Vor'Cha
Heavy Cruiser & a Movie Era Style AoY Utility Cruiser
And this is how they get around what they said previously about "Maintaining the exclusivity of promo rewards and ships" when they decided no one would be able to get the Risian Corvette/Cruiser anymore. "Check it out, dudes! It's got different seating, so it's totally a different ship!".
I'd sure like to see them try to remove the sniper rifle from the Ground Weps craft tree, since it's basically the pre-order reward with a not-useful proc removed.
Captains! We are running a promotion from now until June 11th at 10AM PDT, that will provide an extra bonus when opening a Research and Development Pack.
When Captains purchase a Research and Development Pack from the C-store and open it, they will receive either 10 Lobi Crystals or their choice of an Elachi Sheshar Dreadnought Cruiser with Intelligence or Command seating, in addition to the Research and Development Pack
I read "that will provide" and "they will receive", not "they have chance to receive"! In my country, this is called "fraud"...
And this is how they get around what they said previously about "Maintaining the exclusivity of promo rewards and ships" when they decided no one would be able to get the Risian Corvette/Cruiser anymore. "Check it out, dudes! It's got different seating, so it's totally a different ship!".
I'd sure like to see them try to remove the sniper rifle from the Ground Weps craft tree, since it's basically the pre-order reward with a not-useful proc removed.
Exactly. Now, they just sell you the exact same ship numerous times and the playerbase is even grateful for it.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Exactly. Now, they just sell you the exact same ship numerous times and the playerbase is even grateful for it.
The precedent has been set already.
Take the Excelsior. The C-store T-3 is the original. Then the C-store T-5 Retrofit. Then the Fleet Re-retro-fit.
Taking a ship and selling you a version of it with the "latest" mechanics has been going on for years. I don't know why people are surprised and/or angry about this. This is not a new thing.
Yes, I would love yet another version of the Excelsior with specialist seating. I would buy it. I also agree with requests to update existing lockbox ships (especially the Tal'shiar Adapted Destroyer). Yes, I would thank Cryptic for doing so.
Take the Excelsior. The C-store T-3 is the original. Then the C-store T-5 Retrofit. Then the Fleet Re-retro-fit.
Taking a ship and selling you a version of it with the "latest" mechanics has been going on for years. I don't know why people are surprised and/or angry about this. This is not a new thing.
Yes, I would love yet another version of the Excelsior with specialist seating. I would buy it. I also agree with requests to update existing lockbox ships (especially the Tal'shiar Adapted Destroyer). Yes, I would thank Cryptic for doing so.
The players have always asked for low tier ships to become available at endgame.
Why should Cryptic not do that?
They can't do it for free. They are a business. They have stuff they need to pay for.
So what they did - particular with Delta Rising's new Tier 6 - is make both entirely new ships (Intel, Command) and making Tier 6 versions of old ships.
They basically cover all player desires here - completely new ship, ships based on old ships, kit bash abilities with old ships or on new ships.
The only desire they don't satisfy is to give it the players for free (free of grind or free of money). That is something they just can't do.
There is stuff you can get for free, of course - new episodes, new game mechanics, new queued missions... But not ships.
It makes sense to me. From the stuff players wanted most - ships and episodes - they picked one to sell and one to give us for free.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Take the Excelsior. The C-store T-3 is the original. Then the C-store T-5 Retrofit. Then the Fleet Re-retro-fit.
Taking a ship and selling you a version of it with the "latest" mechanics has been going on for years. I don't know why people are surprised and/or angry about this. This is not a new thing.
Yes, I would love yet another version of the Excelsior with specialist seating. I would buy it. I also agree with requests to update existing lockbox ships (especially the Tal'shiar Adapted Destroyer). Yes, I would thank Cryptic for doing so.
Not really. I mean there is a difference between a ship, a retrofit and fleet ship. It is the same model, but it's a new ship and if you want to play this ship at endgame so be it. This is not ideal by any means, but I can accept that - I even bought (via dil to zen) a few of those myself.
With the lockbox ships, though, they just recycle the exact same ship. The JHAS, this dreadnaught thing - they will release those periodically and every time people will throw hundreds if not thousands of dollars at the screen. It's astonishing.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I know some of you are seeing the release of the same ship but with different boff seating, skills, etc as a cash grab, look at it in a different way.
No one in this game place the same as everyone else, Cryptic is giving a number of "trim" options for the same ship , all players are not limited to one size fits all, you grt the ship you like with the specialization and seating you are looking for.
Just how car and trucks sold come with different options, the same can be said here.
I don't know if this is the right place for this or not. I got one of these sheshars and unpacked it as a command version. While in space there is no problem, but whenever I transfer to a ground map the game claimes I have got no sheshar. This makes it possible to aquire the Advanced Elachi Oschu Shuttles, if I open the dilitium store from space. But if I open it on the ground I cannot. The Elite ones is only purchasable from a T5 sci starbase and that is considered a ground map. Therefore it seems impossible to get it. Does anyone else have this problem and is there a workaround?
Comments
That's exactly what I thought. Capitalism, folks, greedy greedy.
And what are you winning?
That depends. But you need to look at the STO playerbase as a whole.
You know how RNG it is to get a Promo/Lockbox Ship from opening the appropriate items. If one were to do this via C-Store Purchases using the free ingame means, how much Dil do you think it will cost a player? Especially at the Dil Exchange Rates going these days? People are complaining on the Dil cost to upgrade Non-Reputation equipment.
Or, if a player isn't going to play the box opening shennanigans and say, "I'll save up the EC to get my Sheshar this time." Good move! But how much EC is it going to cost? The Sheshar the first time around was hotly pursued. It was briefly on the exchange but disappeared so it was going 500m+. I have no doubt the new version will be just as pricey because people wanted the Sheshar.
You know for a fact that the majority of players out there are complaining about things costing in the few millions. You know for a fact that there are many players out there that can never even afford a Plasmonic Leech Console for their Fed/Fed-Rom. You know for a fact that players complain about the cost of some current Lockbox/Lobi ships on the exchange costing over 120m. The Sheshar dwarves most ships out there in what prices they will fetch.
There is a P2W element in STO. Not as bad as some F2P games blatantly are, but it's there. And the Dil Exchange Rate has not gone in the player's favor as time has gone on if he wants to "Stay Free."
Selling the stuff from the boxes and the Lobi store and buying it off the exchange is the only guaranteed way to get one.
Come on man, I can be more original then that!
If anything, if you are going to be going back to revamping ships like you are doing at the moment already with the last JHAS and this thing, how about revamping ships that really do need ravamping? Like the Multi-Vector Assault Escort for example... And how about you guys start bring out more ships that are already in the game with pilot seats, I mean I would love to have a Wells Temporal Science Vessel with pilot seats in it, I don't even care if it isn't T6.
God, lets do something different, or at least something good that makes since, not the same BS every freaking update.
¬¬"
Expect the mistake to always be there, or are you forgetting the epic drop rate of items from boxes in this game... I spent freaking $230.00 just buying the R&D packs alone trying to just get one JHAS T6 and I never got one.
Never again, never again.
:rolleyes:
You both are freaking idiots and have no idea WTF you are saying, save yourself and uninstall.
But also beameddown, you should know that as the game gets older and better ships come out, it was destined that the ships that are T5 will not go up against anything anymore. Hell, in a few more years we are probably riding T8 ships, where the heck do you leave T5s then? If you going to type something down, at least think before you go all typer-happy.
Hahahaha! You bash Cryptic for bringing out new versions of "same-3d-model" ships but then go on a tirade that the Prometheus, Temporal Science Vessel should be getting the T6 Pilot treatment. Doing the exact same thing you're complaining about
YOU SIR, ARE A *JEM!* Truly, truly outrageous!
I must admit, that made me laugh... A LOT.
Just because I don't agree with you doesn' mean I am an idiot.
Maybe it is you who should uninstall and in the meantime go see a shrink.
Just read a little about capitalism and maybe, maybe you will understand the irony.
Seems like you are the one who have no idea what we are talking about.
By the way, outstanding argumentation (this is another irony, in case you didn' get it)
Even so, have a nice day, and less anger in your heart.
(don't forget the shrink, you really need one, after all it's just a game)
What's the drop rate on the dreadnaught, cause I'm 20 boxes in and no luck.
Statistically speaking, about every 200 or so box from what I've read across the forum. Don't quote me on this though. But then again, some open 1, some open 1000...
You could open 1000, 2000 or even 3000 boxes and potentially get no ship.
Rng is rng, built for the rich or incredibly stupid...
You could also open 1337 boxes, don't you forget about this magic number!!
My advice is just buy it with EC and avoid spending hundreds of dollars on the packs.
Don't forget, they're using money to light those cigars. ;P
Probably excellent advice.
Yea solid point here trendy. If re-re-releasing ships with different boff specialization layouts becomes the next norm for your company to earn money wouldnt it be time to go a bit further as well?
I mean a tier 6 JHSS with a lt. commander pilot instead of a lt. commander Intel seat you may keep but a tier 6 JHSS with 5/2 gun ports and the pilot manoeuvring abilities may be cool.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Tal Shiar are in league with the Iconians.
Also Temporal Command Cruiser, different hulls for each faction. if you made lockbox ships that we're faction appropriate to the character opening them I think many many many people would be happy.
I'd sure like to see them try to remove the sniper rifle from the Ground Weps craft tree, since it's basically the pre-order reward with a not-useful proc removed.
I read "that will provide" and "they will receive", not "they have chance to receive"! In my country, this is called "fraud"...
Exactly. Now, they just sell you the exact same ship numerous times and the playerbase is even grateful for it.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The precedent has been set already.
Take the Excelsior. The C-store T-3 is the original. Then the C-store T-5 Retrofit. Then the Fleet Re-retro-fit.
Taking a ship and selling you a version of it with the "latest" mechanics has been going on for years. I don't know why people are surprised and/or angry about this. This is not a new thing.
Yes, I would love yet another version of the Excelsior with specialist seating. I would buy it. I also agree with requests to update existing lockbox ships (especially the Tal'shiar Adapted Destroyer). Yes, I would thank Cryptic for doing so.
The players have always asked for low tier ships to become available at endgame.
Why should Cryptic not do that?
They can't do it for free. They are a business. They have stuff they need to pay for.
So what they did - particular with Delta Rising's new Tier 6 - is make both entirely new ships (Intel, Command) and making Tier 6 versions of old ships.
They basically cover all player desires here - completely new ship, ships based on old ships, kit bash abilities with old ships or on new ships.
The only desire they don't satisfy is to give it the players for free (free of grind or free of money). That is something they just can't do.
There is stuff you can get for free, of course - new episodes, new game mechanics, new queued missions... But not ships.
It makes sense to me. From the stuff players wanted most - ships and episodes - they picked one to sell and one to give us for free.
Not really. I mean there is a difference between a ship, a retrofit and fleet ship. It is the same model, but it's a new ship and if you want to play this ship at endgame so be it. This is not ideal by any means, but I can accept that - I even bought (via dil to zen) a few of those myself.
With the lockbox ships, though, they just recycle the exact same ship. The JHAS, this dreadnaught thing - they will release those periodically and every time people will throw hundreds if not thousands of dollars at the screen. It's astonishing.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
No one in this game place the same as everyone else, Cryptic is giving a number of "trim" options for the same ship , all players are not limited to one size fits all, you grt the ship you like with the specialization and seating you are looking for.
Just how car and trucks sold come with different options, the same can be said here.