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R&D and upgrade systems should be changed
sennahcherib
Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
why?
R&D system
- timer everywhere even for small project, under 30 seconds
- all these crappy mods which should be removed;
- it doesn't seem really random, Dmg mod and pvp mods come more often
Upgrade system
today i left the game because i was really fed up with this system.
After more than 100 attemps (and only for TODAY) for a tetryon DBB with crtdx2 crth, finally i'm lucky, wow! a tetryon DBB with crtdx2 pen, after a ton of crappy weapons; the best was dmgx2 pvp(dmg)
thus, i try the upgrade system. btw, i bought an experimental upgrade (620000 ec) + a green accelerator (improvment chance: 320000 ec), i know, i could buy a blue accelerator, but for me they are too expensive. I don't buy these s..... R&D boxes in the c-store
btw, i don't try to have epic weapons, i'm already happy with Ultra rare.
second upgrade, wow! cool, ultra rare, i look at the weapon, and dmg was added :mad:
And this is not the first time, that one of my weapon is bungled.
i know nobody force me to use the R&D and the upgrade systems, i could buy MK XII-XIII weapons, but like the other players, i just want to have some cool weapons on my ships.
i'm not against the fact that these 2 system are random, but dmg, pvp(res), pvp(dmg) should be removed. the other mods can be useful or interesting.
if you like these systems like they are; well ok. But i don't think that many players like to see their time + a huge amount of dil and ec wasted for nothing. If these systems are intended to keep me in game, they failed.
your thoughts? (if you could avoid personal attacks, it would be nice; thank you)
R&D system
- timer everywhere even for small project, under 30 seconds
- all these crappy mods which should be removed;
- it doesn't seem really random, Dmg mod and pvp mods come more often
Upgrade system
today i left the game because i was really fed up with this system.
After more than 100 attemps (and only for TODAY) for a tetryon DBB with crtdx2 crth, finally i'm lucky, wow! a tetryon DBB with crtdx2 pen, after a ton of crappy weapons; the best was dmgx2 pvp(dmg)
thus, i try the upgrade system. btw, i bought an experimental upgrade (620000 ec) + a green accelerator (improvment chance: 320000 ec), i know, i could buy a blue accelerator, but for me they are too expensive. I don't buy these s..... R&D boxes in the c-store
btw, i don't try to have epic weapons, i'm already happy with Ultra rare.
second upgrade, wow! cool, ultra rare, i look at the weapon, and dmg was added :mad:
And this is not the first time, that one of my weapon is bungled.
i know nobody force me to use the R&D and the upgrade systems, i could buy MK XII-XIII weapons, but like the other players, i just want to have some cool weapons on my ships.
i'm not against the fact that these 2 system are random, but dmg, pvp(res), pvp(dmg) should be removed. the other mods can be useful or interesting.
if you like these systems like they are; well ok. But i don't think that many players like to see their time + a huge amount of dil and ec wasted for nothing. If these systems are intended to keep me in game, they failed.
your thoughts? (if you could avoid personal attacks, it would be nice; thank you)
Post edited by sennahcherib on
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Comments
There is such a huge lack of imagination there. Crafting should be enjoyable and rewarding. As it is, it's way too easy to level it. You can max out crafting without having crafted a single item. Like, what's the point?
You should need to learn how to craft. Crafting should be it's own whole meta in itself with it's own gear that you wear while doing it, crafting hubs around the galaxy where you can craft unique items or level certain schools, unique places to gather mats that are completely separate from combat. There should be specific crafting R&D skills separate from Boffs that you can learn.
Those are just a couple things off the top of my head and well they're not original ideas, they're from Final Fantasy XIV A Real Reborn which has the most deep and interesting crafting system I've experienced. I already here the jerks that will cry: 'You can't expect to match a sub game!" Just shut up seriously. Shut up. You can do anything and ask for anything you want. This is a video game and the only crime here is thinking too small and not including elements of fun and joy into your game and there is no reason not to aspire to be a AAA game instead of some little Pay2win (and pay ALOT!) niche game stuck in 2010.
Yes, also, OP, random mods should be removed. They need to figure it out, but the should normalize all weapons to drop with only varying quality, not varying mods. You should be able to craft a gold or a ultra rare with the right mats and imo it's ok for the quality to be RNG (to a point) dependent, but the mods are too important to have them be spit out randomly and with PvP completely dead and gone no weapons should be dropping with PvP mods on them.
Plus I'd rather have the SWTOR style of crafting. Just the mats and credits and done, no DIL, no specific doff needed, and no freakin' timegates. How often did they use Dilithium to replicate items in Star Trek? NONE. Dilithium was used in the warp core for warp travel. NOT AS CURRENCY/
"Okay team, I need you to make me a weapon capable of exploiting an enemy's weaknesses for maximum damage!"
"Aye-aye, cap'n!"
*Clank-clank* *Clank-clank*
"All done!"
"Hey, this isn't what I asked for at all."
"Yeah sorry, we don't known what the weapon's going to be good at doing until we finish making it! That's part of the fun!"
"FFS, then take it apart and use the pieces to try again."
"We can't take it apart. Once it's made, that's it. LOL."
"...Be glad this isn't a Klingon ship."
Joking aside, there's really nothing fun about farmville timers, nor is there anything fun about gambling with resources. Instead, how about this:
Timers: Remove them, except on research projects. I get the purpose behind those somewhat. However, anything that actually creates something should take no more than 5 seconds to spit the item out. I'm sure there's a few mouthbreathers that are willing to pay extra dilithium for instant gratification, but overall, it's a toxic, predatory mechanic used by creepy pay-to-win carnival MMOs. I'd like to think STO isn't willing to sink that low.
RNG Results: Random modifiers as a base starting point is fine, but there needs to be more to crafting to make it feel meaningful rather than frustrating. Either of these 2 would be nice to have as part of the crafting process:
Option 1) After making an item, allow us to change the modifiers into what we want. NOT through another lottery wheel spin, but by actually setting them to what we want in exchange for a few extra resources. This could even be expanded to encompass most other items as a means of ensuring our quality upgrades end up being worth the trouble (and cost) rather than being worthless. This is the preferred option.
Option 2) Just let players set the modifiers they want when they make an item. At an additional resource cost if necessary, but the players would have the most respect of it became an innate part of the crafting system.
- - -
As for the upgrade system...that's another matter entirely.
1) Get rid of the timers. Seriously, there's nothing "fun" about waiting 4 hours for a weapon my ship needs to finish upgrading. Do you want me to play the game, or log off and play something else like wow while I wait for a stupid timer?
2) Quality upgrades are both very random and very expensive. People should be allowed to choose which modifier is applied.
3) The randomness element behind rarity upgrades needs to be completely redesigned. It'd be better off as something you "level up to" just like the item's level. It should also be completely independent of an item's current level, unlike now where going up a level causes the chance to drop a bit.
In short, cut back the RNG. RNG elements are obviously important in a game, but overusing them is a guaranteed way to frustrate the TRIBBLE out of your players.
can I haz stuffz?:rolleyes:
but seriously...the 30 sec timers are unnecessary.
the randomnes of mods however not so much, since the mods determine the value of a weapon. It can't be the intention to be able to build best of the best weapons with a simple click.
The normal method to craft good weapons is to build them at lower tiers, wait for a very rare weapon with excellent mods and upgrade it thereby increasing the chance for a quality improvement slightly.
Rather have it that way, than farming some ultra rare ingredient for wekks and then be able to craft something of value, which exists anyway in the form of the level 15 special items like the aegis.
But anyway, the crafting system is hardly a reason to get frustrated over in a computer game...the game didn't even have a crafting system worth mentioning before.
i left the game just for today :P gasp! sometimes my english is a little bit crappy.
i don't do pvp neither. i don't think that the pvpers use these pvp mods. the idea behind these mods was maybe interesting but for the majority of the players, they are just a pain in the a...
the dmg mod is just totally useless.
all these little timers are really tiring, because this r&d system is mega random; each time, i craft at least 60 targeting interface (something like that) + 1 other component.
5 components ->15 s (if my memory is good) or 75 dil.
timer duration for a weapon -> 4 minutes. (i craft almost 80 weapons each time).
sometimes, i'm so tired that i pay 75 dil for ending the projects. I spent, 2 days ago, 8000 dil just for ending quickly some projects. i know that i could wait, but after tons of crappy weapons, i had just lost all hope :P
btw, cost at 4minutes -> 75 dil, cost at 3 minutes -> 75 dil etc; why the cost doesn't follow the timer?
Don't forget the game is many years old, and there are many, many players with Millions of Dil and Billions of EC from years of "grinding".
Without the R&D Dil sink, there is nothing to spend it on. And please do not say Rep gear or Fleet projects, because most players that have Dil to spare, are also members of fully maxed Fleet's and fully completed Reps.
It's secondary, and nearly as important, purpose is being EC Generator/Sink to keep the Exchange, and the overall in game economy moving.
Without players selling the unwanted crafted items, and without other players buying the cheaper ones because they can't afford the "must have" versions, there would then be far less to spend EC on.
The randomness of "bad" modifiers on items is WAI ... And it's doubtful Cryptic will ever change it.
It's a necessary evil unfortunately.
What we have is a start, but not the best when it comes to crafting.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
It would sure be nice if we could learn to express ourselves without stooping to insults. Ad hominem arguments dilute the gist of your thesis.
:P
Rep system: Input marks, wait 20 hours
"Crafting" system: Input material, wait 20 hours
You don't have to craft a single thing to level it. On top of that they put material boxes as rewards for queues just like they did for marks. STO doesn't have a crafting or gathering system, it only has a rep system. I'm very much in favor of tossing this one out and creating a whole system in its place.
Mine Trap Supporter
The problem with this argument is .. .
a) The forums, despite what some people think, represents only a tiny (albeit vocal) part of the total game community.
b) WE don't have the numbers that Cryptic have, WE don't know how many players are willing to spend 18,000 Dil to instantly upgrade to Level 15 Crafting (which several players I know have done) and then spend countless more Dil to get the modifiers they want.
Cryptic DOES have these numbers. And apparently the numbers say "It's all good
It's WAI for now and it's necessary for the game economy to function. Balancing an MMO economy isn't a simple task, and many, many companies have 'farfed' it up entirely.. Cryptic seems reasonably skilled at maintaining there in game economies.
If it were a Dil sink, why are the other components so much harder to get? I run out of various mats to create upgrades (blues especially) long before I run out of Dil to apply those kits (even before the recent spate of extra dilithium events.)
Most likely not at all.
Like it was already said, while people use the Dil shortcut, it remains profitable to Cryptic and nothing will change.
About timers. They exist because it seems to be the norm among free-to-play games, and to be honest, it's totally fair. However, subscribers should not have such restrictions. Removing timers for subscribers would at the very least encourage people to subscribe or buy LTS.
STO Screenshot Archive
Their should be no Best Mod
They should all be of equal value but do their jobs in a different way
you should be able to pick which mods you want
It appears game balance is a concept cryptic doesn't understand too well
There should be no BEST Mod
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I do have a problem with random mods, which means I will never use it to craft anything.
Right now it is just a another slot machine, that you keep putting money into, and hope you hit the jackpot..
+5 levels of can make something 100% natively and you may pick the mods.
Example: at level 5 beams you can 100% craft a green beam array. So at level 10 crafting you can pick one mod. And should at this level be 100% blue. So at level 15 you pick two mods. At level 15 you are 100% chance for purple so at level 20 you may pick all three mods for a mk II.
This leaves some randomness and gives an incentive to have high skill levels in crafting. And gives room to increase the crafting cap. So that if they want to you could eventually make mk II gold gear while choosing the mods.
As to the timers. They need to be shortened for upgrades. Maybe not eliminated, but two plus hours per mk XII to XIII and three hours per mk XIII to XIV is do not play for a few days on your character. With how limited replay is here that is practically an invitation to go play with the competition while you wait for the timers to run down.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
We "mouthbreathers" do not choose to breath that way. We have sinus problems! Pedal your hate elsewhere!
me neither, but only for the big timers: 1 hour, 4 hours etc. but all these little timers are ridiculous: 5s etc.
yes, these random mods are just a waste of ressource. And when you have some nice rep weapons bought 25000 dil in the store, rom-plasma with critdx2 for example; you try to upgrade them, and a crappy mod is added; wow, it is really frustrating. Not only you have wasted dilithium in the weapons, but also for the "upgrade".
Memory Alpha wasn't perfect, but a dedicated place for the crafting + the feeling to do research were very interesting. i don't know why, they have removed Memory Alpha, but for me this place was interesting; now the only action that we do is to move sliders
currently R&D doesn't mean: Research & Development but Resignation & Despair. :P
5-15 minute wait timers have no use other than to introduce tediousness.
Why cant it craft instantly? What would it break/unbalance? Or why cant we queue up 100x same crafting item for a much longer timer?
Why must we be limited to craft up to 5 items at a time with short timers.
The entire crafting system was redesigned with the soul purpose of getting us to spend money on zen/dilithium.
It's sickening and a sign of a major cancer within cyrptic/PWE called greed. There's business interest in turning a profit and there's greed based nickle and dime-ing. They opted for the later system.
sig
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5451/om71.jpg
It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
I would imagine they were also to serve some purpose in regulating the amount of high end items a player can craft, thereby keeping the exchange from being flooded and crashing the price. Of course, most of the "special" Lv 15 items from the various schools are still all but worthless unless they have the magic, highly desirable UR mod. So if that was intended, it didn't work. You can craft those special Sci consoles all day every day and have yourself a lot of very expensive vendor trash.
Have to agree here. The price you are forced with to make the Level 15 items and they are stuck at a starting level of MK XII should mean that due to their higher quality items requires them starting at UR.
As it is, there's plenty of UR mods for each item that is less than desired so a reorder there can be good.
Top DPS 102k
This is the biggest problem in my opinion. I was upgrading one shield from UR to EPIC and 318K research points later, still UR. Again, 318k research points more... still UR. That is just RIDICULOUS!!!!:mad:
Member since Jan 24th 2010 (more or less)
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