I'm not saying your perspective is 'wrong,' or that mine is 'right' because neither statement would be true.
When it comes to what is economical, while also including rent versus ownership, the price of single-player and offline games wins overall.
$30 for one ship, compared to what it could buy, is economically illogical and inexcusable.
You can, right at this moment, buy a massive expansion pack for $20. While you are putting around in one ship, I will be playing a whole world of new content.
If Cryptic charged $60 to buy levels 1-60, I can see how people could make a justifiable argument. However, people are spending $30 on one virtual reality item, which they cannot use to level from 1 to 60.
Then why keep going on and on about differences of degree? I'm not debating that either. Some people have no issue playing for months to earn enough to buy things. Others will. Subjective reasons weren't what Voporak was getting at.
His point was that some folk tend to flippantly toss about the "earn everything for free" and make it sound as if it can be done with little to no effort or time investment. That isn't at all accurate. That is what he was getting at.
To me...getting a ship in 10-12 hours from DOFFing...is pretty much little to no effort and time investment. To somebody else...it might be a lot of effort and time investment. Goes back to one of the first things about it not being misrepresented...but rather about it being subjective. And yes, it was something Voporak was ignoring too in the way you've portrayed what he said - but that could just be you ignoring it.
I've played games where you could spend months to get something where you actually had to play your TRIBBLE off day in and day out to get the slightest bit of progress. 12 hours? A whole ship by comparison? Yeah...that's quick 'n easy by comparison.
Instead of spending $60 on two ships, I managed to buy two offline-single player rpgs. $30 is getting me 100+ hours of new content.
Do you spend $30 on one ship (something that lasts for a few weeks)?
Do you spend $30 on a new game (something that lasts for moths and years)?
At some point or another, "Star Trek: Online" will come to an end. Once Cryptic and CBS decide to pull the plug, the items you bought will evaporate into thin air. If you buy an offline-single player rpg, you could technically play it forever.
Offline-single player rpgs = Ownership.
MMOs/MMORPG = Rental.
I would rather own.
When you buy dlc from BioWare, 2K Games, and Bethesda Softworks, you get a 100 times more content for $20. Once the dlc sits on the shelf for a while, BioWare, 2K Games, and Bethesda Softworks will package it with the core game. Within a good one to two year period, you could technically buy $80 worth of game for $20.
...and, that is why I moved back to single-player games.
I don't know about you but, I don't spend $30 on a ship and, only get a few weeks out of it.
Because I use ALL of them, when I feel frisky for a change, I don't just stick with 1 and think I have to have the next because other's want it or, tell people they should have to have it.
I hate getting rid of ANY ship!!!
As for console/computer games, yeah you can buy and own it and, even play the vast majority of them for however long your console/computer will have life but, some of those that make use of an online server service from even those companies will eventually close down.
And when that happens, all that is left, is a game that cannot be played online anymore.
No matter what game you play and, decide to spend money on, is all in the purpose of your own entertainment but, either one you choose requires money in some fashion, whether it comes out of your own pocket or, someone else's.
Heck, I stopped buying playstations after my ps3 crapped on me, because the newer ones weren't backwards compatible and, neither are the ps4's.
So, after seeing how notorious of a problem the ps3 had with a motherboard issue + no new systems having backwards compatibility, I said no ty sony.
And, don't get me started on X-box, as I will never buy one of those systems, as I cannot stand Microsoft despite my computer having to run their crappy OS.
If you think the prices are too much for you, than I suggest simply playing the game and, stop spending money, because there is that option.
Either that or, maybe this game isn't for you so, either play and invest your time to get what you want or, open your pocketbook or, play something else.
To me...getting a ship in 10-12 hours from DOFFing...is pretty much little to no effort and time investment.
Why grind for 10-12 hours when you could be enjoying a complex and dynamic story?
If Cryptic had sold the 'Legacy of Romulus' for $30-$60, as apart of an expansion pack that included ships, I could see justification for spending that type of money.
Why grind for 10-12 hours when you could be enjoying a complex and dynamic story?
I don't see it as a grind. It's unwinding after the day...no thought required...time that might have otherwise been spent watching something stupid on cable TV.
If they were still making games like they were in the 80s/early 90s...I might still buy games. They don't though... /shrug
I don't see it as a grind. It's unwinding after the day...no thought required...time that might have otherwise been spent watching something stupid on cable TV.
If they were still making games like they were in the 80s/early 90s...I might still buy games. They don't though... /shrug
As someone who grew up with those games, the new rpg experience is far-far-far superior.
Because Cryptic (for some reason) doesn't believe "traditional" expansion packs will sell. Seems to work just fine over in LoTRO and other games.
Yeah, I noticed how it is working fine for other games.
If Cryptic moved away from the hellish grind and micro-transactions, they could start selling expansions packs with new feature episodes and game equipment. Less grind, more story, more items, etc...
I just kind of laugh at my roomie, as he spends hundreds of $'s on game consoles + games!
Does he get his $ worth?
Well, he plays them all so, I would assume so but, if I asked him, he might say yes or, possible no.
I mean, he has probably better than 200 console games in all, while 80% sit on the shelf after being played, doing nothing but collecting dust!!!
Don't get me wrong, as he gets some frebbie DL games as well but, every single PS1 & PS2 game he has, sits doing nothing but collecting dust.
And, having a PS3 [no BC] & PS4, the majority of his PS3 games are doing the same so, even though he can go back and play all of his PS3 games, he never does really as he is always playing new ones.
So, I in my eyes, I look at this as being just as big of waste of $, as me spending tons of it on a game I enjoy!
People spend hundreds of dollars every day to get great seats at theaters, sports arenas, races, concerts, etc and have nothing to show for it but 2-3 hours entertainment.
An gamer spends thirty bucks on a virtual item and gets years of entertainment from using it.
Yeah the gamers are the stupid ones. :rolleyes:
You are going to buy and use 'one' virtual reality item to play on the same treadmill for years?
Whenever I start up a new play through, the story and game change according to my choices in species, dialogue options, alignment, and character specialty.
"Star Trek: Online" has one specific story and outcome for each faction.
Whenever I start up a new play through, the story and game change according to my choices in species, dialogue options, alignment, and character specialty.
"Star Trek: Online" has one specific story and outcome for each faction.
...added... Can STO's story change due to your companion relationship dynamics?
And if Cryptic sold expansions instead of Cstore items, people would be complaining about the price of the expansions and locking content behind paywalls. :rolleyes:
Especially since Cryptic promised to never lock content behind a paywall.
Cryptic isn't going to change on this. Their current busineness model works for them, and it is line with the policy they promised when they went F2P.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
op I suspect prices are so high simply because the majority of players left in the game are veteran players with lots of alts. Considering that some on this post can easily max dil on multiple toons per day 30 or 60 dollars can easily be made ingame or for that matter a substantial portion of it.
Cryptic is probably left with no choice but to keep the prices so high otherwise they won't see much income from ship sales.
I never really understood the meaning of "microtransaction", doesn't matter if the amount is 0.01 or $1000 a transaction is just that a transaction regardless of the size.
all I care about is can I afford to treat myself and is the item I want good value in my eyes.
if a ship is $30 but I know I am going to use it a lot and get my moneys worth in enjoyment and I can afford to buy it then whats the problem.
I could spend more then this going to see a movie and grabbing a burger meal after and a ship will last a lot longer.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
This is something that has been asked for, in many ways more than once, lots of people have given ideas of little things here and there, that they would be willing to obtain via zen but, the vast majority has not been added, either because they were not the greatest of ideas and/or, Cryptic just doesn't feel/want to add them for reasons!
I think they should consider it again. I have seriously slowed my ship buying since T5-6 ships are not cross compatible. Meaning that the consoles give no use out of their own ship. The starship traits are meh and do not always work. But people can open their wallets for little things from time to time for the pleasure of trying something else. I have all the little ticket items. But the big ticket items seem to have less value than a costume at this point.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
People spend hundreds of dollars every day to get great seats at theaters, sports arenas, races, concerts, etc and have nothing to show for it but 2-3 hours entertainment.
I spend a whopping $7 to get into the drive in theater for a double feature. Sometimes I don't even pay that since my restaurant supplies food for their stand. /shrug
Dil has become much less valuable than it used to be, so the workingman has to toil all the harder to earn his zen, but he can still do it. After all, he doesn't need the dil as much as he used to, and its easier to get.
That's an interesting aspect that I never really thought about. Sure, a high Dilithium price for Zen means that Dilithium is not needed as much, and it means if you grind Dil to get your Zen specifically, you need to grind more. But it also means that you most likely don't need that Dilithium as urgently for somethnig else than you used to.
That might mean when the course was low in favor of Dilithium, people had to balance their Zen needs with their Dilithium needs - maybe their fleet starbase still needed some projects completed, and so they knew if they spend it on Zen they won't have access to Tier 5 Fleet ships or certain gear.
But if your fleet is done, your upgrading is mostly taking care of - well, the dilithium is kinda superflous. Neat to have for the future, but hey, you could have something cool for Zen right now.
Of course, the thinking of players intitially is different. "Hey, finally we're done with the fleet and I can spend all that Diilthium i earn from now on for Zen! Cool." "Wait, what? Why is the Dilithium value dropping? No! I was just looking forward to cashing in big!"
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Simple logic: half the prices, lower the bar to get stuff, about 70% more will buy, or buy more, whichever the case.
Win-win scenario.
There was a game that did this, and their revenue made more profits with the lower prices than they did with the normal ones.
They kept the lower prices ever since.
Trying to remember the game's name, once I remember it, I'll post it up.
Yep. You are forgetting STO is an RPG. The "story" isn't relevant unless I choose it to be relevant. I have a Babylon 5 Whitestar captained by a Minbari and crewed by Narn, Centauri, and Psi-Corps Ranger boffs (amazing what you can create using the Alien template) and the STO story line involves the younger races of the Interstellar Alliance.
You are only bound by your own imagination.
Indeed.
Currently leveling and evolving a Guardians of the Galaxy themed crew.
The only one i'll have trouble recreating, is Rocket Racoon...
As Voporak once put so eloquently, you can also have a steak dinner by picking up lost pennies in a parking lot too.
Having had an extremely boring couple of hours , I had time to reflect upon the above and add another dimension to it :
The cryptic steak house owner ... , who comes out every few minutes and loudly proclaims that according to his meh-trics you are finding & picking up them pennies way too efficiently , after which he walks about kicking your pennies further away... , some of which now land in unreachable places .
Then he turns to you and says "you're welcome ... , because I did it for you you know ..." .
... not that I was thinking about the diminished 1440-920-720 Dil STF awards when I thought of that or anything ...
it's math really. Would lowering prices increase sales by so much it would compensate the loss in revenue ( and even add to profit ) ? Apparently they did the calculations and decided it wouldn't ....so it won't happen.
I have zero problem with how the game is. I've brought ships with real money. A couple of months ago, I brought one of the command battlecruisers, and no problem with spending $40 on it (that is how much it cost in Australian dollars). I use that with two of my characters. Don't get bored of it, as I have different setups. Got other characters that fly either Fleet Galaxy-X or the Mogh.
I've been thinking might get a ship for my Romulan, but it isn't a big concern for when that happens. Could try get an event ship for her to use. Can also grind for a fleet ship.
Many people in the thread seem to be comparing the two extreme ends of the scale - pay a bunch of $ to get it NOW!, or obsessively grindgrindgrindgrindgrind Dil to exchange it to get it ALMOST NOW!.
Personally, I just play the game how I enjoy. Every once in awhile (when I notice I've got a bunch of dil, or when I'm inspired by something in the c-store), I'll check out the exchange and see how much Zen I could get for some Dil. And if I can get enough zen, and I'm ok with the exchange rate, and I want the item that much..... I'll get it.
I don't view my time playing as "I must grind for hours now, work work work work, must get zen." I just play the game. And every so often, I'll grab something from the c-store. Might wait for a sale, might not, depending on the thing. (like, I recently grabbed a +25 Doff Inventory on one of my alts, no sale, because I didn't want to bother looking for a bad one to discard to make space for a purple.)
Comments
$30 for one ship, compared to what it could buy, is economically illogical and inexcusable.
You can, right at this moment, buy a massive expansion pack for $20. While you are putting around in one ship, I will be playing a whole world of new content.
If Cryptic charged $60 to buy levels 1-60, I can see how people could make a justifiable argument. However, people are spending $30 on one virtual reality item, which they cannot use to level from 1 to 60.
Its economic stupidity.
The Delta Recruit event started April 2nd. It's May 19th. It's been 47 days since the event started.
STO's the only game I'm playing right now. Work in some longer play on weekends. /shrug
To me...getting a ship in 10-12 hours from DOFFing...is pretty much little to no effort and time investment. To somebody else...it might be a lot of effort and time investment. Goes back to one of the first things about it not being misrepresented...but rather about it being subjective. And yes, it was something Voporak was ignoring too in the way you've portrayed what he said - but that could just be you ignoring it.
I've played games where you could spend months to get something where you actually had to play your TRIBBLE off day in and day out to get the slightest bit of progress. 12 hours? A whole ship by comparison? Yeah...that's quick 'n easy by comparison.
I don't know about you but, I don't spend $30 on a ship and, only get a few weeks out of it.
Because I use ALL of them, when I feel frisky for a change, I don't just stick with 1 and think I have to have the next because other's want it or, tell people they should have to have it.
I hate getting rid of ANY ship!!!
As for console/computer games, yeah you can buy and own it and, even play the vast majority of them for however long your console/computer will have life but, some of those that make use of an online server service from even those companies will eventually close down.
And when that happens, all that is left, is a game that cannot be played online anymore.
No matter what game you play and, decide to spend money on, is all in the purpose of your own entertainment but, either one you choose requires money in some fashion, whether it comes out of your own pocket or, someone else's.
Heck, I stopped buying playstations after my ps3 crapped on me, because the newer ones weren't backwards compatible and, neither are the ps4's.
So, after seeing how notorious of a problem the ps3 had with a motherboard issue + no new systems having backwards compatibility, I said no ty sony.
And, don't get me started on X-box, as I will never buy one of those systems, as I cannot stand Microsoft despite my computer having to run their crappy OS.
If you think the prices are too much for you, than I suggest simply playing the game and, stop spending money, because there is that option.
Either that or, maybe this game isn't for you so, either play and invest your time to get what you want or, open your pocketbook or, play something else.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Why grind for 10-12 hours when you could be enjoying a complex and dynamic story?
If Cryptic had sold the 'Legacy of Romulus' for $30-$60, as apart of an expansion pack that included ships, I could see justification for spending that type of money.
...but, they didn't.
I don't see it as a grind. It's unwinding after the day...no thought required...time that might have otherwise been spent watching something stupid on cable TV.
If they were still making games like they were in the 80s/early 90s...I might still buy games. They don't though... /shrug
As someone who grew up with those games, the new rpg experience is far-far-far superior.
Yeah, I noticed how it is working fine for other games.
If Cryptic moved away from the hellish grind and micro-transactions, they could start selling expansions packs with new feature episodes and game equipment. Less grind, more story, more items, etc...
edit: Here, let me link this instead...
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20070223a/barton_pfv.htm
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20070223b/barton_pfv.htm
...and yeah, I'd forgotten about this one...
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/129994/the_history_of_computer_.php
Compared to the ARPG nonsense of consoles and the like? Meh...I'd rather be playing the old stuff.
Does he get his $ worth?
Well, he plays them all so, I would assume so but, if I asked him, he might say yes or, possible no.
I mean, he has probably better than 200 console games in all, while 80% sit on the shelf after being played, doing nothing but collecting dust!!!
Don't get me wrong, as he gets some frebbie DL games as well but, every single PS1 & PS2 game he has, sits doing nothing but collecting dust.
And, having a PS3 [no BC] & PS4, the majority of his PS3 games are doing the same so, even though he can go back and play all of his PS3 games, he never does really as he is always playing new ones.
So, I in my eyes, I look at this as being just as big of waste of $, as me spending tons of it on a game I enjoy!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
You are going to buy and use 'one' virtual reality item to play on the same treadmill for years?
Whenever I start up a new play through, the story and game change according to my choices in species, dialogue options, alignment, and character specialty.
"Star Trek: Online" has one specific story and outcome for each faction.
No, by that time, he/she would have most likely earned enough for more!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
My answer...
...added... Can STO's story change due to your companion relationship dynamics?
Especially since Cryptic promised to never lock content behind a paywall.
Cryptic isn't going to change on this. Their current busineness model works for them, and it is line with the policy they promised when they went F2P.
Cryptic is probably left with no choice but to keep the prices so high otherwise they won't see much income from ship sales.
all I care about is can I afford to treat myself and is the item I want good value in my eyes.
if a ship is $30 but I know I am going to use it a lot and get my moneys worth in enjoyment and I can afford to buy it then whats the problem.
I could spend more then this going to see a movie and grabbing a burger meal after and a ship will last a lot longer.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I think they should consider it again. I have seriously slowed my ship buying since T5-6 ships are not cross compatible. Meaning that the consoles give no use out of their own ship. The starship traits are meh and do not always work. But people can open their wallets for little things from time to time for the pleasure of trying something else. I have all the little ticket items. But the big ticket items seem to have less value than a costume at this point.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I spend a whopping $7 to get into the drive in theater for a double feature. Sometimes I don't even pay that since my restaurant supplies food for their stand. /shrug
That might mean when the course was low in favor of Dilithium, people had to balance their Zen needs with their Dilithium needs - maybe their fleet starbase still needed some projects completed, and so they knew if they spend it on Zen they won't have access to Tier 5 Fleet ships or certain gear.
But if your fleet is done, your upgrading is mostly taking care of - well, the dilithium is kinda superflous. Neat to have for the future, but hey, you could have something cool for Zen right now.
Of course, the thinking of players intitially is different. "Hey, finally we're done with the fleet and I can spend all that Diilthium i earn from now on for Zen! Cool." "Wait, what? Why is the Dilithium value dropping? No! I was just looking forward to cashing in big!"
Win-win scenario.
There was a game that did this, and their revenue made more profits with the lower prices than they did with the normal ones.
They kept the lower prices ever since.
Trying to remember the game's name, once I remember it, I'll post it up.
Indeed.
Currently leveling and evolving a Guardians of the Galaxy themed crew.
The only one i'll have trouble recreating, is Rocket Racoon...
Having had an extremely boring couple of hours , I had time to reflect upon the above and add another dimension to it :
The cryptic steak house owner ... , who comes out every few minutes and loudly proclaims that according to his meh-trics you are finding & picking up them pennies way too efficiently , after which he walks about kicking your pennies further away... , some of which now land in unreachable places .
Then he turns to you and says "you're welcome ... , because I did it for you you know ..." .
... not that I was thinking about the diminished 1440-920-720 Dil STF awards when I thought of that or anything ...
Really? I would have thought Groot would be a stumbling block as well.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I've been thinking might get a ship for my Romulan, but it isn't a big concern for when that happens. Could try get an event ship for her to use. Can also grind for a fleet ship.
Personally, I just play the game how I enjoy. Every once in awhile (when I notice I've got a bunch of dil, or when I'm inspired by something in the c-store), I'll check out the exchange and see how much Zen I could get for some Dil. And if I can get enough zen, and I'm ok with the exchange rate, and I want the item that much..... I'll get it.
I don't view my time playing as "I must grind for hours now, work work work work, must get zen." I just play the game. And every so often, I'll grab something from the c-store. Might wait for a sale, might not, depending on the thing. (like, I recently grabbed a +25 Doff Inventory on one of my alts, no sale, because I didn't want to bother looking for a bad one to discard to make space for a purple.)
I feel it works quite well. /shrug