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Dev post on Reddit about the cause of the lag.

somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 10,221 Arc User
So here it is folks, the cause behind a lot of the lag in the game.

https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/35voyv/star_trek_online_release_notes_may_14_2015/?sort=new
We recently were able to do some server profiling of the Powers system, and Inspiration was revealed as the far-and-away leader of the pack in terms of performance impact.

But it was, by no means, alone.

We're also having to clean up many other powers that in years-gone-by probably would not have been an issue. But as the game has matured, and players gain more and more access to different sources of additional powers (Rep Traits, Specs, Starship Traits, increased # of equipment slots, etc, etc.) it has really started to add up.

In fact, we're going so far as asking our poor, overworked programmers (like /u/CrypticBatsoup) to create entirely new code paths so that we can lighten the load of certain types of powers on the back end, without having to re-design their functionality.

Long story short: Inspiration changes should improve matters significantly, but it's not the end of the road. And we're going to continue improving things for many months and years to come.

Also, Attack Pattern Beta was apparently the #2 culprit, as I understand it. So... consider laying off the Recluse spam? ;)
Post edited by somtaawkhar on

Comments

  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Was similar info posted anywhere on the official game forums or reddit only?
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    There was also Targ's reply to Bort there...
    As a player, I wouldn't worry too much about using Attack Pattern Beta. It is definitely a cause of some performance issues, but it's nowhere near on the level of what Inspiration was doing. And interestingly enough, it's not even firing weapons when Attack Pattern Beta is active that's the problem. It's activating it to start with.

    We've identified a number of issues related to server performance in regards to the Powers you guys are using (Mostly in Space, but some on Ground). Of all the problems we identified, Inspiration is the only one that really needed a redesign. The rest we should be able to fix pretty invisibly. In fact, it's doubtful that the server performance gains we get from fixes beyond the ones we're making to Inspiration will be very visible to you guys at all. But it will make the Hamsters run faster, which is only a good thing.

    We'll be making these changes over the coming weeks and months, but our goal is to make for as smooth a playing experience for you guys as we can.

    In regards to Inspiration, and players seeing lag even with no Command Ships in their STFs, that has a lot to do with our server architecture. Long story short, if you're playing Infected Space, there are multiple instances of Infected Space happening on one server process. So if any of those instances happened to have a Command Ship in it, you felt the lag from it.
    Was similar info posted anywhere on the official game forums or reddit only?

    Surely you jest!

    I just wait for folks to post something here from there, cause I don't touch reddit otherwise...meh.
  • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I think it's funny that the lag from command ships spills over into other instances.


    Good work! I hope this is a quick-ish fix :)

    It's interesting about APB too. From Targ's post, I'm thinking it's probably #2 on the list only because it's used so often. Hopefully they fix the activation lag that has existed since forever :)
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I just wait for folks to post something here from there, cause I don't touch reddit otherwise...meh.

    Similarly, I dislike reddit. Wishing I could have all the relevant info in just one place and be done with it, not have to go hunting or use the devstalker (pipe dream I know, but I figure official forums and a wiki ought to be sufficient for staying reasonably informed).

    Still, the response is interesting. I wonder if Inspiration was checking too often or something? The whole thing makes me think of when the Jem'Hadar space shield was first released and the problems they had when people used it with a BFI doff. Makes me wonder if its new people making old mistakes, or if its an all new bug?
  • daciaeternadaciaeterna Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    If what its said here will actually happen all i can say is "about damn time" and ... thx ...

    Lets just hope its not gonna take 1 year to be implemented.
  • kamipoikamipoi Member Posts: 365 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    aka they use virtual machines and the code for the com cruisers inspiration were trying to check every 1-100milisecond for people using abilties something silly like that ;-P
  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    All I read is... nerf to APB incoming.

    *wears tinfoil hat* :rolleyes:
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    tk79 wrote: »
    All I read is... nerf to APB incoming.

    *wears tinfoil hat* :rolleyes:

    Heh, they want on to explain a bit about it with a couple of additional posts...it's just annoying to have to follow that discussion there instead of here...meh.
  • supergirl1611supergirl1611 Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    It does seem odd that a power as far as i know Attack Beta has been in the game since launch is apparently causing game lag. I can confirm from my perspective and experiences that Attack Pattern Beta never caused any game lag prior to the launch of Delta Rising, Plenty of runs with the DPS channels pre-DR and no lag. The lag was introduced with season 9 then progressively got worse with the winter event, the omega particles event, Delta Recruitment event and finally Season 10.

    So whatever code they added during this time has borked up an existing skill that has never been an issue.

    I'm more surprised they didn't come out and say its Fire At Will, that would make a lot more sense with 5 players spamming it

    But glad they may have finally found the fault regarding lag and i knew in my mind that it was not isp issues but poorly coded software.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Essentially this confirms what was clearly visible even without looking at the code or server usage.

    Every time you're in a queue with a Command cruiser the lag gets worse and it's quite clear that those ships have been the culprit for at least a month or so.

    There are other causes too but any passive ability that effectively monitors the whole battlefield constantly to build up a charge is bound to cause some extra load for the sever to deal with.
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  • timelords1701timelords1701 Member Posts: 427 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Heh, they want on to explain a bit about it with a couple of additional posts...it's just annoying to have to follow that discussion there instead of here...meh.

    I concur, this is their own official site, yet they post elsewhere about it first, i dont visit reddit and most likely wont, here is where their news should be spread not other lowly sites...
  • z3ndor99z3ndor99 Member Posts: 1,391 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    So its all you command ship aficionados causing me lag!!!
    Right!, everyone stop using your command ship's and, just use tier 5 ok.
    Thank you ;)
  • thenoname711thenoname711 Member Posts: 204 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    What comes for me from those two quotes is that if problems with command ship's Inspiration are fixed it should return the lag to at least pre-anniversary levels, am I taking it right? Also the part about server architecture is quite funny, I will not criticise it because I don't know how those things normally work in other games. But it actually makes me even more impatient to test how lag will be after today's patch.
    Gameserver not found.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,204 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    If you guys remember, the Sarr Theln's Starship Trait when used in conjunction with another specific trait (can't recall, it was a Fed one though) killed instances with unholy lag and SNRs. Cryptic had to fix that ASAP because it was a killer issue.

    All the powercreep introduced over the years has finally crested over the dam.

    Which is quite funny, IMO :D
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  • mrspidey2mrspidey2 Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    rmy1081 wrote: »
    I think it's funny that the lag from command ships spills over into other instances.
    It literally transcends realities...
    2bnb7apx.jpg
  • psych2lpsych2l Member Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Solution, shove all the command ship users to their own server which will be called the RP-server lol
  • captainpugwash1captainpugwash1 Member Posts: 908 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    Essentially this confirms what was clearly visible even without looking at the code or server usage.

    Every time you're in a queue with a Command cruiser the lag gets worse and it's quite clear that those ships have been the culprit for at least a month or so.

    There are other causes too but any passive ability that effectively monitors the whole battlefield constantly to build up a charge is bound to cause some extra load for the sever to deal with.

    1st week in Feb I filled out my command tree in one go, lag before slight, lag after :( , never used it since as I could see it was causing problems but as op said when you get 1, 2 or 3 command ships in a queue its hopeless.
    Its not rocket science if a 61 year old with no computer skills can see the problem or should I say 1 of the problems.
    So 3 months and counting.
    Fingers x for today.
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    Speculation:

    APB code could be checking EVERYTHING (whether it's a valid power/ability or not) and then applying the benefit when conditions are met. While the check is excessive, pre-DR (and pre multiple Traits, Command Tree/Ships, etc) there was plenty of performance overhead to handle the excessive checks except when under serious load.

    I can attest to something similar happening on one of our work systems, and that was only serving 200 users on an infrastructure designed to handle 1K users.

    Any other issues, whether related to this or not, only amplifies the performance issues further, and leaves us with the end result of a crappy gaming experience.

    There's still quite a lot that we're still in the dark on, and that they may be attempting to figure out as well.

    So long as it is dealt with, and broadcasted properly (a roadmap, perhaps? On as many communication mediums as possible?), people wouldn't be so frustrated. Even more forgiving.

    Semi-shameless plug: We brought up this issue on our 'show' last night.
    https://youtu.be/9BoIV8AwE64
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