I'm gonna have to throw my cents in with the random = bad group.
Personally, I wouldnt mind if it was costly to pick our mods so long as the frustration of randomness was removed. That way cryptic would make their money, we'd have our mods and (almost) everyone would be happy.
And another thing: random upgrade chance. Please kill it (itd be so much easier if we were guaranteed a quality increase after a certain point at MK14, even if that point was expensive to get to).
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I made an Omni AP beam the other day that went UR. It got [PvP Res]. You know how many players in STO want [PvP Res]? Zero. Not even the 5 people still playing PvP. A mod that exists purely to troll and waste resources--that's a characteristic of a crummy system.
Gees I'm still using my Ultra Rare Mk XIV Fleet Poloran Beam Arrays [Acc]x2 [Dmg]x2
5 of those a wide angle torp and the crafted omni-Poloran along with kinetic cutting beam.
I'll change when they let me choose my mods. I would want all Acc or put some Acc and CritH in there as mine is low being a cruiser/tank build.
Fleet Admiral Thomas Winston James a.k.a. The Grayfox Fleet Leader of:
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Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
If I knew how lousy the end results of upgrading some items was, I wouldn't have spent a tenth of the time and effort grinding to do it. In the upgrade screen, it should tell you the stats, going right up to Epic XIV and also...why can't the upgrades just be guaranteed? Why all this chance nonsense, which is just soul-destroying.
LOL, seriously, I see your point, I've rigged my ship to gett 22%+ crit chance and I'm not even using any terribly expensive goodies yet... (with CrtD weapons I'd be dealing crazy levels of damage)
I do feel that the [CrtD] mod does make most other mods look unimpressive, so the easiest way to fix it would be to drop it from +20% to +10% (or even +5%, but that might be a bit much) give-or-take (and adjust AntiProton weapons, and dual heavy cannons accordingly), but there would be SOOOOO many high-dpsers who would scream bloody murder if the developers made such an obvious balance fix.
*shrugs* people complain about the game being unbalanced, then complain about the nerfs required to balance it out...
About the random mods, though, perhaps if you could select a 'target mod' and get a % chance of getting it adjusted by skill, the system could maintain it's semi-random nature while giving players an increased chance of getting the mods they want?
The ONLY mod that sucks is [DMG] and it has since day one. The new mods from Delta Rising are interesting but you can only have one of them per weapon so I'm ignoring them for now since the original four are still the core Mods to any weapon.
[CRTD] shines on Intel Ships and in PVE
[CRTH] shines in PVE on builds with high Crit Severity
[ACC] absolutely essential for PVP and really any fast moving targets
[DMG] sucks harder than Nikki Minaj at the Rap Music Awards
Each modifier has its place people are just going cookie cutter with [CRTD] because it's easy. Same thing has happened many times like when AUX2BAT was all the rage. [CRTH] could use a slight buff like maybe 50% but otherwise the core Mods are just fine the way they are.
[DMG] need to go from 2.5% per mod to more like 7.5-10% per mod. That way [DMG]x4 weapons might actually be useful.
I sometimes wonder. Do you believe devs understand that [Critd]x3 combo is more valuable than say [acc][dmg][crth]?
If they don't, they could have judged the saturation of as many combinations as possible is preferable to offer more options? That would explain this RNG system. Hmm..
I wish they'd bring [Dmg] up to par with [CrtH] and [CrtD] so you could have the viable choice of more consistent damage, critting more often, or critting harder.
I'd also wish for a toggle to allow PvP mods on your items.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Think about it.. Being able to select a mod vs random would either inflate or completely deflate the weapon economy. Look at it this way, if you choose to select mods, say 50k dil for mod 1,then 100k for mod2,then pick a third at 200k, MAYBE that would keep some balance (these numbers are just examples, insert any value you want but it follows cryptics 100% markup rule of everything). But also keep the random element as an option to not pay dil. that might work. But there is no balanced wwy to just pick mods without some kind of penalty attached.. Otherwise everybody would have crtdx3 monsterboats and the gear would not be worth anything anymore. Its cost me dearly to get my three main chars decked out with crit sev gear and so it should be because its the best stuff for pve
It's supposed to be inefficient, so you spend more and more until you have to use real cash to buy more resources.
Working as intended in Cryptic's eyes.
You nailed it. Well played.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
In real life, when I "craft" something, I know wtf the results will be.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Except, he didn't nail it. It went right over his head and half the heads in his thread. The only situation in which the scenario he describes would make sense would be if Cryptic had a mod selection box that let you cherry pick your mods in exchange for a lump sum of dil/zen. A system where they get paid. Hence the need to buy more resources. Except no such functionality exists and hardly any resources are being wasted by anyone.
Think about it. The people cranking out items like a mad man, playing the slots are all making mark 2's. These cost practically zilcho to make. Even the dil "Finish Now" button that is so taxing at higher levels is effectively circumvented. And there's no point in crafting at higher marks either and paying those higher resource costs as they offer no better chance at getting the mods you want. That's the problem. People with truckloads of resources to spend have no way of crafting the mods they want or speeding up the monotony, even if they're willing to part with gobs of it to accelerate the process. The option just isn't there. In turn, Cryptic isn't getting paid either because Mark 2's are cheap to make and cheap/instant to finish.
There is no "marketing GENIUS!" to be seen here. In the system Cryptic has devised, no one wins.
They could simply let us pick our own [mods] for whatever we are making and increase the cost depending on the mod.
So for example a [CrtD] mod, which we all know is what most people want, would cost an extra 500 dill per mod added. So to craft a very rare beam array with [CrtD]x3 it would cost an additional 1500 dil.
Where as a lesser [mod], let's saaaaay...[Acc] would only cost 100.
They could even say the first one costs nothing, but if you add a second [CrtD] it's the additional 500 and then for each additional [mod] of the same type the price would actually be larger. So that first one was free, but the second one cost 500, but it also bumped the price of the first one to 500, now tacking on a a third would be 1000 which also bumps the price of the second [CrtD] up to 1000, resulting in an additional 2500 dil if you wanted to craft a beam bank with [CrtD]x3
Then after that they could charge a flat fee for things such as [over] or [spr], say like an additional 1500 dil.
Now you could still pick random and it would cost what it does now. But they should still increase the odds for some of the [mods].
This way we can make what we want and Cryptic can still be making money off of it. I had to dig into my inner Ferengi to even come up with that...I need a shower.
Edit: Before my shower I also thought of this. For each mod it increases the rarity, so one mod is Uncommon, if you add another it's rare, another very rare and so on. Of course some [mods] would not even be available until you hit ultra rare or epic. They could even charge say...15000 dil to make an item epic....DAMN I feel dirty. But still, this would give us what WE want, the ability to craft what we need and Cryptic would still be making money off it.
Okay, some other ideas came up, once you let that Ferengi out it's hard to get it back into the cage!
At crafting lvl 0-4 you would only be able to make uncommons (one [mod]) easily. You could try making a rare but it would obviously cost more and if you failed only the first [mod] is applied resulting in an uncommon instead of the rare and any mats you used are lost.
lvl 5-9 you could make rares and as above try to make very rares, with the same risks.
10-14 would be very rare
15-19 ultra rare
Finally at lvl 20 you could make epic items.
Of course up to epics you could try making a higher tier but as stated above it could result in a failure and a lose of mats and depending on what you are doing a large chunk of dil.
You could also make a lower tier item for a reduced cost. So say at lvl 20 you could make an ultra rare instead of an epic for 75% of what it would have cost you during lvls 15-19.
Step 1: nerf the over all value of selling items to vendors.
Step 2: remove item reward packs from the end of most PVE content, effectively removing the players ability to obtain MK XII very rare gear.
Step 3: Release the crafting and upgrade revamps, which cost ludicrous amounts of resources for a game of random chance.
Step 3.5: add in even more procs to the game to further muddy the chances of earning anything of value, making the mods actually work is completely optional, making the mods apply to the parts of the game people actually play is completely optional, making the mods do something functionally new and not situationally new is completely optional.
Step 4: profit, have a good laugh.
That's just it... ARE we doing production engineering? The "flavor" text associated with these doff missions seems to suggest that we're making experimental prototypes and not assembly line products.
That's just it... ARE we doing production engineering? The "flavor" text associated with these doff missions seems to suggest that we're making experimental prototypes and not assembly line products.
But once a prototype is made to work successfully, the knowledge to replicate it is there.
My thought to all of this has always been why can't we have an R&D DOff mission to prototype out an object. Once that object is made under the RNG events, a new DOff R&D mission should exist to recreate that exact same object at the exact same rarity and mods. No chance to get an change the quality during that mission but it cost less in resources to make it over and over again.
This keeps their RNGing they seem to desperately want, but also make it so that once people get what they want, they can just make it. And there giive the players what they want, eventually. You can even have it that it takes less mats but more people to do production, but prototyping takes more mats and less people.
But once a prototype is made to work successfully, the knowledge to replicate it is there.
My thought to all of this has always been why can't we have an R&D DOff mission to prototype out an object. Once that object is made under the RNG events, a new DOff R&D mission should exist to recreate that exact same object at the exact same rarity and mods. No chance to get an change the quality during that mission but it cost less in resources to make it over and over again.
This keeps their RNGing they seem to desperately want, but also make it so that once people get what they want, they can just make it. And there giive the players what they want, eventually. You can even have it that it takes less mats but more people to do production, but prototyping takes more mats and less people.
It's just a thought....
well, that idea does have some merits, but... can you imagine how much complexity it adds to the game? O_o'
well, that idea does have some merits, but... can you imagine how much complexity it adds to the game? O_o'
Actually is should just be a DB thing to compare against. And just a flag to mark what has been discovered. It would mean more developemnt time at thier end as they set up the DB with every possible combination. And then anytime they add a new mod, they would have to add all of it's possible iterations in too. Code wise not complex, just very time consuming on intitial setup is all.
And with it being R&D DOffing missions, the complexity would only being in the mission list, and in the fact that they might want to add a feature or two to the UI to help sort and present the new production models a bit.
Comments
Personally, I wouldnt mind if it was costly to pick our mods so long as the frustration of randomness was removed. That way cryptic would make their money, we'd have our mods and (almost) everyone would be happy.
And another thing: random upgrade chance. Please kill it (itd be so much easier if we were guaranteed a quality increase after a certain point at MK14, even if that point was expensive to get to).
Then please fill out my dissertation survey on feline attachment, it'd be a massive help (-:
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/87XKSGH
Lol, not if you are out to make $$$$, just look how well Vegas does for itself!
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5 of those a wide angle torp and the crafted omni-Poloran along with kinetic cutting beam.
I'll change when they let me choose my mods. I would want all Acc or put some Acc and CritH in there as mine is low being a cruiser/tank build.
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Liberty Guardians
U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
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The ONLY mod that sucks is [DMG] and it has since day one. The new mods from Delta Rising are interesting but you can only have one of them per weapon so I'm ignoring them for now since the original four are still the core Mods to any weapon.
[CRTD] shines on Intel Ships and in PVE
[CRTH] shines in PVE on builds with high Crit Severity
[ACC] absolutely essential for PVP and really any fast moving targets
[DMG] sucks harder than Nikki Minaj at the Rap Music Awards
Each modifier has its place people are just going cookie cutter with [CRTD] because it's easy. Same thing has happened many times like when AUX2BAT was all the rage. [CRTH] could use a slight buff like maybe 50% but otherwise the core Mods are just fine the way they are.
[DMG] need to go from 2.5% per mod to more like 7.5-10% per mod. That way [DMG]x4 weapons might actually be useful.
The old system was just a shop. Items in, item out. Random elements are kind of what define crafting systems.
I wish they'd bring [Dmg] up to par with [CrtH] and [CrtD] so you could have the viable choice of more consistent damage, critting more often, or critting harder.
I'd also wish for a toggle to allow PvP mods on your items.
You nailed it. Well played.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Before DR, I would have agreed with you. Since DR killed PvP, nearly all players should want CritD or CritH on their weapons.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
I know I don't always know what the end results of my efforts will be.
My character Tsin'xing
Except, he didn't nail it. It went right over his head and half the heads in his thread. The only situation in which the scenario he describes would make sense would be if Cryptic had a mod selection box that let you cherry pick your mods in exchange for a lump sum of dil/zen. A system where they get paid. Hence the need to buy more resources. Except no such functionality exists and hardly any resources are being wasted by anyone.
Think about it. The people cranking out items like a mad man, playing the slots are all making mark 2's. These cost practically zilcho to make. Even the dil "Finish Now" button that is so taxing at higher levels is effectively circumvented. And there's no point in crafting at higher marks either and paying those higher resource costs as they offer no better chance at getting the mods you want. That's the problem. People with truckloads of resources to spend have no way of crafting the mods they want or speeding up the monotony, even if they're willing to part with gobs of it to accelerate the process. The option just isn't there. In turn, Cryptic isn't getting paid either because Mark 2's are cheap to make and cheap/instant to finish.
There is no "marketing GENIUS!" to be seen here. In the system Cryptic has devised, no one wins.
So for example a [CrtD] mod, which we all know is what most people want, would cost an extra 500 dill per mod added. So to craft a very rare beam array with [CrtD]x3 it would cost an additional 1500 dil.
Where as a lesser [mod], let's saaaaay...[Acc] would only cost 100.
They could even say the first one costs nothing, but if you add a second [CrtD] it's the additional 500 and then for each additional [mod] of the same type the price would actually be larger. So that first one was free, but the second one cost 500, but it also bumped the price of the first one to 500, now tacking on a a third would be 1000 which also bumps the price of the second [CrtD] up to 1000, resulting in an additional 2500 dil if you wanted to craft a beam bank with [CrtD]x3
Then after that they could charge a flat fee for things such as [over] or [spr], say like an additional 1500 dil.
Now you could still pick random and it would cost what it does now. But they should still increase the odds for some of the [mods].
This way we can make what we want and Cryptic can still be making money off of it. I had to dig into my inner Ferengi to even come up with that...I need a shower.
Edit: Before my shower I also thought of this. For each mod it increases the rarity, so one mod is Uncommon, if you add another it's rare, another very rare and so on. Of course some [mods] would not even be available until you hit ultra rare or epic. They could even charge say...15000 dil to make an item epic....DAMN I feel dirty. But still, this would give us what WE want, the ability to craft what we need and Cryptic would still be making money off it.
Okay, some other ideas came up, once you let that Ferengi out it's hard to get it back into the cage!
At crafting lvl 0-4 you would only be able to make uncommons (one [mod]) easily. You could try making a rare but it would obviously cost more and if you failed only the first [mod] is applied resulting in an uncommon instead of the rare and any mats you used are lost.
lvl 5-9 you could make rares and as above try to make very rares, with the same risks.
10-14 would be very rare
15-19 ultra rare
Finally at lvl 20 you could make epic items.
Of course up to epics you could try making a higher tier but as stated above it could result in a failure and a lose of mats and depending on what you are doing a large chunk of dil.
You could also make a lower tier item for a reduced cost. So say at lvl 20 you could make an ultra rare instead of an epic for 75% of what it would have cost you during lvls 15-19.
Step 2: remove item reward packs from the end of most PVE content, effectively removing the players ability to obtain MK XII very rare gear.
Step 3: Release the crafting and upgrade revamps, which cost ludicrous amounts of resources for a game of random chance.
Step 3.5: add in even more procs to the game to further muddy the chances of earning anything of value, making the mods actually work is completely optional, making the mods apply to the parts of the game people actually play is completely optional, making the mods do something functionally new and not situationally new is completely optional.
Step 4: profit, have a good laugh.
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Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
For artistic endeavors, I can see random results.
For regular production engineering, no.
My character Tsin'xing
But once a prototype is made to work successfully, the knowledge to replicate it is there.
My thought to all of this has always been why can't we have an R&D DOff mission to prototype out an object. Once that object is made under the RNG events, a new DOff R&D mission should exist to recreate that exact same object at the exact same rarity and mods. No chance to get an change the quality during that mission but it cost less in resources to make it over and over again.
This keeps their RNGing they seem to desperately want, but also make it so that once people get what they want, they can just make it. And there giive the players what they want, eventually. You can even have it that it takes less mats but more people to do production, but prototyping takes more mats and less people.
It's just a thought....
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RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
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My character Tsin'xing
Actually is should just be a DB thing to compare against. And just a flag to mark what has been discovered. It would mean more developemnt time at thier end as they set up the DB with every possible combination. And then anytime they add a new mod, they would have to add all of it's possible iterations in too. Code wise not complex, just very time consuming on intitial setup is all.
And with it being R&D DOffing missions, the complexity would only being in the mission list, and in the fact that they might want to add a feature or two to the UI to help sort and present the new production models a bit.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)