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Why do Some Think DPS = Answer to Everything?

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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Sometimes in thinking about folks bringing up the MMO Trinity, I wonder if it is not so much about how they want to play but how they want others to play. How they might want queues set up to limit certain roles, eh? They want to be the Tank. They want to be the Healer. They don't want to show up for a run with four other guys wanting to be the Tank or the Healer. So if Cryptic were to impose Tank/Healer/3 DPS on queues (which would require basically redoing the majority of the game)...then they could show up as the Tank or Healer without worrying about somebody else doing the same.

    Course, if they were to make friends and get some premade action going - they wouldn't have to do that, and they could build out the group following the MMO Trinity...no need for Cryptic to change anything for them. Well, unless they want a 0 DPS Healer and a "Yo' mamma" joke telling Tank...er...hrmm.
  • paxdawnpaxdawn Member Posts: 767 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    guilli88 wrote: »
    The content isn't exactly challanging and fun (more like tedious with clunky ui at times.)


    Going for dps "epeen" numbers is all thats left to do for a lot of people who are still here and doing it. Not all of us enjoy making alts and doing the leveling content over and over again.

    We are already maxed out on rep, done every story mission on every difficulty, maxed out our gear/r&d/doffs (as much as timers allow).

    Literally nothing to do other than improve ourselves. And you know what. That's fun! Getting better at something is fun in itself. Sports wouldn't exist if it wasn't for example!

    Challenging is subjective and self created. A player can stay in advance and refrain from doing other mission which are more difficult than they have.

    You wont get to know more difficult missions or challenging mission if you limit your game.
    Yeah thanks for the insults,much apreciated i love you to.

    Now here have this link:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension

    Read it,learn it and love it,then read this again:



    Big,huge,monumental difference between the holy trinity "existing" in a mmo and the holy trinity REQUIRED to clear content in a mmo.

    If its not required 99.99999999999 % of the players will go with the pew pew route,big shiny numbers so they can stroke their e-peen and win virtual braggin' rights (which to be honest amount to nothing,with that and a buck you can get a soda).

    Now here have some rubber gloves and remove your foot from your rather large mouth,thank you and have a nice day.

    Let me put it this way.

    its like you are in Grade 5 demanding grade 12 stuff, except you are in grade 5. Same can be said of the trinity. You wont need it until you actually need it. Low skill level players dont need it because they have no idea whats its use or how to use it for.

    Bad players like you exist for a reason to troll in the forums and blame a community for their shortcomings.
  • paxdawnpaxdawn Member Posts: 767 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Sometimes in thinking about folks bringing up the MMO Trinity, I wonder if it is not so much about how they want to play but how they want others to play. How they might want queues set up to limit certain roles, eh? They want to be the Tank. They want to be the Healer. They don't want to show up for a run with four other guys wanting to be the Tank or the Healer. So if Cryptic were to impose Tank/Healer/3 DPS on queues (which would require basically redoing the majority of the game)...then they could show up as the Tank or Healer without worrying about somebody else doing the same.

    Course, if they were to make friends and get some premade action going - they wouldn't have to do that, and they could build out the group following the MMO Trinity...no need for Cryptic to change anything for them. Well, unless they want a 0 DPS Healer and a "Yo' mamma" joke telling Tank...er...hrmm.

    I believe this is one of the mistakes forum concept of tanks and healer builds in STO. They think a tank should take aggro even if it doesnt deal DPS. The same with a healer. It should just heal.

    Except it isnt like that. In order to take aggro you need to deal DPS. The healer can still deal DPS with its pets, fleet support, debuffing, timing, CC, etc.

    Even a fed Fleet support use through the trait or purposely taken can peak for 15k DPS in ISA with the fleet support alone. + another 15k or more with your pets.

    So you can say that tanks and healers also DPS in this game which far from the idea of most players who thinks they know how to build tanks and healers, which dont deal damage at all. They wont deal DPS the same level as the damage dealer builds though.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    paxdawn wrote: »
    I believe this is one of the mistakes forum concept of tanks and healer builds in STO. They think a tank should take aggro even if it doesnt deal DPS. The same with a healer. It should just heal.

    Except it isnt like that. In order to take aggro you need to deal DPS. The healer can still deal DPS with its pets, fleet support, debuffing, timing, CC, etc.


    I think you may be looking at this too black & white. A 'glass cannon' is generally considered an (Escort-type) ship that does an ungodly amount of DPS, but has little in the way of survivability. A tank, while not the opposite of that per se, naturally has to sacrifice *some* DPS in order to, you know, tank. It isn't a pure either/or deal.

    A good tank will typically generate threat. Speccing into Threat Control helps, as well as fitting [+Threat] consoles. Naturally a good tanker is a high-DPS pilot to begin with, as high DPS attracts enemies too, of course. But, at the end of the day, a tank will inevitably have to give up *something* to become said tank. Take slotting the [Anchored] Trait, for instance. You can't do that gratuitously, and expect to survive. So, either you will need to fit an Armor console of sorts, or choose a cruiser-type ship with built-in resists from Mastery (like some Command ships).

    You just can't have your cookie and tank it, is my point. :)
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  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Big,huge,monumental difference between the holy trinity "existing" in a mmo and the holy trinity REQUIRED to clear content in a mmo.

    If its not required 99.99999999999 % of the players will go with the pew pew route,big shiny numbers so they can stroke their e-peen and win virtual braggin' rights (which to be honest amount to nothing,with that and a buck you can get a soda).

    Yeah, because it's all about the e-peen, not because it's the most efficient use of your time and effort.

    We all know that people in general love spending more time than necessary earning their rewards, and most people hate being able to do things faster. :rolleyes:
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Well, I FAR from meet the criteria to join said channel - and not entirely sure I'd want to, even if I did, as I enjoy the variety that Pug's sometimes offer. But I do require advice regarding how to build my FT5-U Nova; she's pretty okay at healing/Crowd Control/Debuffs, but the last time I was in an instance of ISA that was parsed was about a month ago, and I was averaging a megre 5.5k DPS then :(

    I think you vastly over-estimate the difficulty and "DPS specialization" required to hit 10k. There is a huge variety of builds in 10k, because it's not actually too difficult to do once you get the hang of it.

    If you let yourself get down to below 50% hull and summon Fleet Support, that thing occasionally does 5k right there. Heck, if you're flying aggressively trying to get below 50% hull, you're likely to come close to 10k yourself. Most of the piloting errors I see in a PUG is people flying too slowly and too far.
    When a log is uploaded through CLR, everyone's result gets uploaded: not just that of the uploader.

    edit/ and tbh, I'd probably change that if it was me who worked on CLR.

    That would force everyone to use CLR, and lock out those who cannot. I see people asking to be parsed roughly once every 3-4 weeks.
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I think you may be looking at this too black & white. A 'glass cannon' is generally considered an (Escort-type) ship that does an ungodly amount of DPS, but has little in the way of survivability. A tank, while not the opposite of that per se, naturally has to sacrifice *some* DPS in order to, you know, tank. It isn't a pure either/or deal.

    You speak from a position and assumption of knowledge.

    There was someone who claimed to be a successful "tank" that only tickle the enemy from 9km-10km away, and considered themselves successful because they don't die. Obviously they don't parse because that's for DPS e-peen hosers, so they don't even notice they're taking less damage than the average hanger pet.

    The fact is that Tank and CC in STO require above-average knowledge and skill to pull off if you want to contribute as much to the team as simple DPS.
  • melineaaelemelineaaele Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    The issue you see with Escorts performing badly? I equate that to how Heralds just own against Narrow Arc builds. The issue is simple. For such builds to fight effectively, they need to keep "Nose to the Enemy" as much as possible. This opens up the ship to the full myriad of attacks a combined Herald force brings. This gets far worse if the Narrow Arc build is a DHC boat that has to get in very close range. DHC boats will get ***** hard because of all the buff strips and getting instantly hit with every VM, Subnucleonic Carrier Wave, Tractor Beam, Torpedo and Energy Weapon attacks the Heralds do. Not only that, the DHC boat will likely get slammed by Solar Gateways from an angle that he cannot see due to being up so close to the enemy. And when he gets slammed by the series of VM, Subnucleonic Carrier Wave, he gets hit by Ionic Turbulence. Since the Narrow Arc build ship often forsakes maneuverability, it has no momentum to carry the ship to safety past the effect radius of Ionic Turbulence and oh yea, the EMP Pulse Probe. And since the ship is up so close, it probably doesn't see the squadron of Herald Raiders that will do Pilot abilities that are a sort of "ram" and land some heavy straight-to-hull damage on you. Probably when you're sitting there with VM, Ionic Turbulence, and EMP Pulse Probe effects all on you.

    That is A LOT OF **** Narrow Arc builds have to contend with.

    Feh... Thats just TRIBBLE escort players... I run with 45 deg arc / partly upgraded, and still outpace the vast majority of players I see in GtG Adv.. I mean - Ive cleared one side solo, faster than the other 3 guys cleared wave 1 of the other side (last guy was dying to the mobs in between).

    It just takes skill to fly a cannonscort.. unlike orbitting faw spacebar mashers.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    darkjeff wrote: »
    You speak from a position and assumption of knowledge.

    There was someone who claimed to be a successful "tank" that only tickle the enemy from 9km-10km away, and considered themselves successful because they don't die. Obviously they don't parse because that's for DPS e-peen hosers, so they don't even notice they're taking less damage than the average hanger pet.

    The fact is that Tank and CC in STO require above-average knowledge and skill to pull off if you want to contribute as much to the team as simple DPS.


    Funny how you chose an ad hominem, instead of actually trying to refute anything I said. Which you didn't, so I'm all good.
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  • ryakidrysryakidrys Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    P.S: And yeah i know FOR A FACT that alll content in this game DOESNT REQUIRE THE TRINITY!!!!

    You are essentially correct, however, that does not mean that all players should focus solely on DPS. Some folks are not wired for being the damage dealer, so forcing them to play a style they aren't naturally geared toward will not allow them to have as much enjoyment with the game. Likewise, forcing a damage dealer to be the healer won't be fun for them too.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    ryakidrys wrote: »
    You are essentially correct, however, that does not mean that all players should focus solely on DPS. Some folks are not wired for being the damage dealer, so forcing them to play a style they aren't naturally geared toward will not allow them to have as much enjoyment with the game. Likewise, forcing a damage dealer to be the healer won't be fun for them too.

    In the end it's all just about having fun. And while I like doing DPS, I still like to have a fun time. Which is why I still use torps, for example -- despite people telling me I'm insane for doing so -- simply because I *want* to. This, above all, stay true to thine own self.
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  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Really am I the only one that would stack Science abilities?

    I use to have lots of fun in STFS with

    Boarding Party II

    Gravity Well III

    Target Subsystem Shields I

    Torpedo Spread II

    Tyken's Rift II

    Then fill in the other abilities as you see fit just to see how bad you could actually TRIBBLE with the enemies.
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Well, on reflection, and following some stupid comments for which I apologise, I decided to make some adjustments to my build shortly before the server went down for maintainance.

    Emphasis on Particle Generators, using the best equipment I have available (not currently willing to spend anything else, EC/Dil or otherwise).
    and keeping in mind that I am fully spec’ed out on partigen skill:

    Ship - FT5-U Rhode Island

    Weapons:
    Forward: Two Epic MkXIV Phaser beam arrays
    One Mk XIV Ultra Rare Radiant Quantum torpedo launcher (for x2 set bonus)

    Aft: One Ultra Rare MkXIV Phaser Beam Array
    One Epic MkXIV Omni-directional Phaser beam array
    One Epic MkXIV Quantum Torpedo launcher

    Tactical Consoles:
    1 Epic Phaser Relay MkXIV
    1 Ultra Rare Vulnerability Exploiter [pha] MkXIV
    Assimilated Console MkXIV

    Engineering Consoles:
    1 Ultra Rare Neutronium Alloy Console MkXIV [+HullRep]
    1 Ultra Rare Enhanced RCS Accelerator MXIV [+HullHP]
    1 Very Rare Iconian Reputation Console MkXIV (for x2 set bonus)
    (May swap the Enhanced RCS for a Epic Conductive RCS Accelerator Mk XIV [PrtG] when can save sufficient EC)

    Sci Consoles:
    1 Epic Exotic Particle Field Exciter Mk XIV [PrtG]
    2 Ultra Rare Embassy Particle Generator consoles [HuH]
    1 Very Rare Tholian reputation console (was undergoing upgrade to MkXIV at time of post

    BOFFS:
    Lt-Cmdr Tactical:
    BO 1
    HYT II
    TSIII

    Commander Science:
    PH 1
    SSV II
    HEIII
    GWIII

    Lt Science:
    ST 1
    DRBII

    Lt Engineering:
    EPTS 1
    ETII

    Ens Science:
    TB 1 (benefitting from starship trait that procs a shield heal to self and team)

    Doubt it'll increase my DPS too much, but should make that GWIII pretty potent!


    Hey Ryan. :)

    If I may, a few quick observation. Feel free to ignore them, of course.

    * I would definitely replace the Ultra Rare Embassy Particle Generator consoles [HuH] with plasma doping consoles.

    * You're using Particles. Excellent, of course! But maybe you want some more synergy with your torps? I'd lose the Radiant Quantum Torpedo Launcher. That thing is basically TRIBBLE, except possibly for its radiation dmg (but you're not using a radiation build). To mind leaps foremost the Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo Launcher, as it obviously emits Particles. :) And its plasma cloud is boosted by your that plasma doping console you're gonna use (right?).

    For aft, you could maybe use the Gravimetric Photon Torpedo Launcher, and, if you can squeeze it in, like the Proton Particle Stabilizer (for that extra 3.0% CrtH). Or just the Experimental Proton Weapon (rememer, plasma doping works on energy weps only).

    * I wouldn't use a Vulnerability Exploiter, in your case. Almost *always* Locators are superior.

    * Since you already have a Neutronium + HE2, I'd lose the ET2, and perhaps go for a Structural Integrity Collapse ability? (Always good for torps too).
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  • fatman592fatman592 Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Here's my 30k (ranges depending on team, and now especially with lag) Dauntless. It relies heavily on Reciprocity and All Hands on Deck to essentially keep everything at or near global cool down. The build could be adapted for Nova as she's a solid ship and they share some attributes.

    The problem with the build you list is that you are only running one of a given power. Even with the best boffs in the world you're probably only keeping some powers going full tilt. In addition, every science console should be dedicated to the thing you're trying to do. 5 flow caps for drainers, 5 partgens for exotic damage; tactical consoles on a sci ship are better for universal consoles. Also, if you're going for partgen damage, be sure to get the trait Particle Manipulator.

    Those things, plus not running 100 weapon power is probably what keeps your damage low.
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Funny how you chose an ad hominem, instead of actually trying to refute anything I said. Which you didn't, so I'm all good.

    Uh, I wasn't trying to refute anything you said. So it's good that it wasn't refuted?

    I'm pointing out that you know what you're doing, so you don't have to sacrifice DPS to "tank".

    I'm also providing an example of someone who doesn't know what they're doing, and thinks tanking means they can avoid DPS because worrying about DPS is for e-peeners.

    (I didn't make up that example either, this was literally a topic opener sometime before the Delta Recruitment event. Someone asked how to improve their tank, then made it a point of pride to note they don't play the DPS game.)
    reyan01 wrote: »
    I'll swap the radiant torpedo for the UR MkXIV PeP Torpedo I crafted but hadn't thought to use

    I support this 100%, I parsed a fleetie in a Science Ship (so also PartGens) and that one torpedo did more DPS than the rest of his weapons. He did have the +Plas science consoles though, not sure how big a difference that would make.

    I'm not a huge fan of what you've put in your Tactical seats. Without Tactical Team, you'd need to manually redistribute shields - not only is that slow, depending on your timing you'd be interrupting your firing cycles.

    I wonder how well APB1/TS3 would work, they both have a 30s cooldown and APB would reduce Damage Resistance, which would also improve your offensive Science abilities.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    darkjeff wrote: »
    Uh, I wasn't trying to refute anything you said. So it's good that it wasn't refuted?

    I'm pointing out that you know what you're doing, so you don't have to sacrifice DPS to "tank".

    I'm also providing an example of someone who doesn't know what they're doing, and thinks tanking means they can avoid DPS because worrying about DPS is for e-peeners.

    (I didn't make up that example either, this was literally a topic opener sometime before the Delta Recruitment event. Someone asked how to improve their tank, then made it a point of pride to note they don't play the DPS game.)


    Yeah, LOL, now I'm totally confused. :) As always, tone doesn't translate well on the Internet. My bad for musinderstanding you.
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  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I'd recommend dropping your aft torpedo for the Kinetic Cutting Beam. That would give you a forward 90 degree firing arc of 3 arrays + torpedo + KCB, and broadsides of 4 arrays + KCB.

    Since you're using Science powers, you very likely have high Auxiliary power - in which case I'd recommend Auxiliary to Structural 1 instead of Engineering Team 2. It'll heal more, give you a good damage resistance buff, and has a low cooldown of 15s.

    I confess I have no idea what SSV II is, but HE3 is too high - it's wasting a high level slot. Drop PH1 (AtSIF1 already gives Damage Resistance) and get HE1 instead. Then you can up DBR2 to DBR3 and grab TBR1, one of the more damaging Science abilities. TBR is also a good CC ability for things like keeping nanite spheres away from the transformer in ISA.

    You really should carry FAW over BO. I'm still very surprised you're not noticing specific shield facings dropping without Tactical Team. I'd recommend TT1/FAW2/TS3 - no need for double FAW if you're willing to alternate with the target subsystem abilities.

    Remember that balancing defense and everything else on a ship is a zero-sum game. You only need enough defense to not die, after which everything should be going towards everything else. Also that's "not die", not "be at 100% almost all the time".
  • puttenhamputtenham Member Posts: 1,052 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    peeps think dps is the answer to everything, because this is how cryptic built the game.. when you keep building ships that can wipe out anything in seconds flat (not giving time for sci or eng. powers to even have an effect, than it starts to create that mentality)..

    also, cryptic keeps making almost all of the bonus objectives a dps race.. when you only have so much time to kill something, you gots to get it done fast,, thus, sto, the great dps race..
  • shandypandyshandypandy Member Posts: 632 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    darkjeff wrote: »
    That would force everyone to use CLR, and lock out those who cannot. I see people asking to be parsed roughly once every 3-4 weeks.
    .

    Oh, I see that too. I tell them to download a CLR.

    Who "cannot" use a java program, ffs?
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  • tinkerstormtinkerstorm Member Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    The real question is why does Cryptic make everything about DPS?
  • thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    The real question is why does Cryptic make everything about DPS?

    Chasing the DPS dragon makes them money.

    Cheaty McCheaterson controls or annoyingly invulnerable but ineffective tanks don't.

    And with sufficient DPS you don't need the other two of the trinity.

    Which can not be said for the other two.
    This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    I am finding that my DPS is fluctuating though - probably due to the Plasmonic Leech. Haven't quite exceeded 8k yet - but seem to be getting closer.

    Eh, then don't take TBR, it's a finicky power IMO.

    I'd recommend venturing onto www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/ and asking for advice, they're likely to have better recommendations.

    Do be sure to note if you want to keep certain configurations (like insisting on a torpedo) and they'll generally accommodate that.
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    As per the thread title. I will concede that DPS is the answer to everything before I start, although this really relates more specifically to ‘Gateway to Gre’Thor’ than anything else.
    I quite like GtG – it’s a mission that has a ‘segment’ that requires something other than DPS alone to complete – closing those radiation portals, for example, requires some degree of survivability and is essential , on Advanced at least, to a successful completion.

    To highlight my point though, I played an instance of GtG (Advanced) earlier, with my Eng in my T6 Fleet Galaxy. Admitted not a DPS monster, but I consider this a mission where being able to tank is of benefit.
    It was a pretty unremarkable run. Closed as many radiation portals as I could, as did some other members of the team, but we failed due to only managing to rescue 24 out of the 25 transports. Disappointing, but it happens.

    Subsequently receive a small number of PM's from some idiot from the team saying (not quoted directly from in-game, which is probably just as well considering his appalling spelling/grammar):

    Idiot: Please don't play advanced missions; your TRIBBLE and your DPS is too low.
    Idiot: The rest of the team were doing around 4k DPS and yours was only about 900*
    Idiot: You need to learn to play before you do Advanced missions. Stick to easy level, thankyou

    * don't know where he got 900 - I generally average around 3000 when have been parsed in this ship – not particularly good, but that's beside the point in this case anyway.

    I typed a reply saying "The instance failed because we didn't rescue enough transports. We didn't rescue enough transports because SOME moron thinks DPS is the answer to everything and ignored radiation portals. But he had put me on ignore by then and never received said message.
    Anyhow; yeah – my DPS probably WAS low by that point – I wasn’t actually shooting at much – I was closing radiation portals and (if no radiation portals) spawn portals!

    What bothers me, though, is how simple it all is. Even if you don’t read the objectives, it’s blatantly obvious, at least to anyone who engages their brain, that the radiation portals make the transports explode. Yet we STILL have players who think that shooting everything is the answer and then have tantrums, as described above, when shooting at stuff actually, in a sense, can help the mission fail.

    Anyone else experiencing this sort of thing, or is it just me??

    Ive had a few of those type mails i send one response before i block them

    U Mad?

    Then i block and move on to the rest of my life
    Op just play the game you want and to hell with what some DPS elitists think :)
  • tinkerstormtinkerstorm Member Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Chasing the DPS dragon makes them money.

    Cheaty McCheaterson controls or annoyingly invulnerable but ineffective tanks don't.

    And with sufficient DPS you don't need the other two of the trinity.

    Which can not be said for the other two.
    Yeah, we know. Fly an escort escorting escorts, or stay in space dock.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Wise old Owl, how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Pop?

    DPS!!!!!

    :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    I don't feel that TBR is entirely necessary...

    I'm not a fan of TBR...TBR tends to be a horrible ability. It pushes targets further away, pushes them out of arcs, causes all sorts of DPSloss.

    DOFF'd TBR on the other hand...Reversed TBR...doesn't do that. It pulls instead of pushes.

    Two things, imho, need to be kept in mind with that:

    1) Need to be prepared to soak/avoid the breaches...or...boom, lol.
    2) While moving, you'll be dragging them. So you need to keep arcs in mind - the mobs are going to be aft or if you're doing tight circles you'll have them port/starboard. Heh, can get into slotting aft fore and fore aft when it comes to weapons.

    * * * * *

    Another thing, can't remember if I mentioned it or not...but with either Reciprocity (and enough aggro to trigger the reduction) or with EWO Sub DOFF(s), one can use the innate Subsystem Targeting of the Science Vessel to stack the Beam Barrage trait which will increase Beam damage.

    Back when I flew the Sarr Theln (admittedly a carrier), I'd run TT1, APB1, TS3 for the Tac while using the innate Subsystem Targeting to stack Barrage for my beams.
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