Special thanks to
@wardcalis for testing.
Concentrate Firepower Mark a targeted foe, to coordinate your allies weapon fire. All torpedo attacks made against the marked foe deal additional Kinetic damage that bypasses shields. Striking the marked target also has a chance of granting a free High Yield Torpedo I mode to the attacking ally.
Video to come shortly. Testing CF2 and 3. Based off of the description, what is Concentrate Firepower supposed to do? My (seemingly) incorrect assumption was that it would provide 20% of the potential damage (before shield resists) as extra damage that bypasses shields. I take it the calculations are post shield resists? Is this working as intended? If so, this is useful vs unshielded targets, and practically back to square one vs shielded targets. (100% shield bypass total to the target would be nice. Just saying.)
Second, are pets supposed to take a "charge" of CF and grant the owner CF damage, regardless of whether they have a torp equipped or not? That's how it's being reported in the logs. Logs + vids going up soon.
Additional info:
Omega Plasma and Particle Emission Plasma torp plasma DOT's proc CF and take next available CF "charge". The Rom Hyper-Plasma does NOT do this for either the torp OR the dot.
http://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/2yzkv0/concentrate_firepower_iii_the_return_of_the/
Logs:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B0jlAmLwIV46X3R3bjFCUFBoV1E&usp=sharing
Video (unedited/raw):
http://youtu.be/f2Tnzeg_sYI
Comments
Cause there's a 0.5s activation delay that exists on pretty much everything (unless there is a longer activation delay) and there's the 1s cooldown between torps. So one is usually looking at a 1.5s or longer (autofire delays, general latency) between torps.
FYI, I'd like to test CF procs again w/ plasma dots. I've noticed that I have received more CF procs than I should in the CCA event. Is this a manifestation of multiple ranks being triggered by PEP, or my rank somehow double-proc'n for the torps, and then the dot.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
However, one of the things you're listing as a Bug is totally WAI: The extra 20% damage. We cannot increase damage that does not exist. When Kinetic damage is reduced by a foe's Shields, that damage vanishes. It isn't applied to anything, so it is lost and cannot be used to calculate additional effects.
Maybe that value needs to be increased as a result? Possible. But it's not bugged.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Just to check that I'm following:
Torp fired, has 1k damage on the tooltip.
Target has more than enough shields, at say 20% resist, and hull, at say 50% kinetic resist.
900 base damage to shield, * 1/4 for innate kinetic resist, * 4/5 for shield resist, resultant 180 damage to shield.
100 base damage to hull, * 1/2 for kinetic resist, resultant 50 damage to hull.
Total damage dealt to target so far is 230 (180 to shields, 50 to hull). *.2, so 46 extra damage to hull, but x.5 because hull resist, so you get a bonus 23 damage.
I guess what I'm asking is if it's double-dipping on that hull resist, or if I'm just not quite understanding the power.
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15:04:11:20:41:48.2::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[35585 Space_Borg_Battleship_Raidisode],Ferengi Rapid Fire Missile,Pn.Umb72p1,Shield,,-693.495,-6434.32
15:04:11:20:41:48.2::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[35585 Space_Borg_Battleship_Raidisode],Ferengi Rapid Fire Missile,Pn.Umb72p1,Kinetic,Critical,1271.45,3715.1
15:04:11:20:41:48.2::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Cube,C[35585 Space_Borg_Battleship_Raidisode],,*,Concentrate Firepower III,Pn.O9h76v1,Kinetic,,743.02,0
15:04:11:20:41:49.5::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Elite Obelisk Swarmer,C[35611 Space_Obelisk_Fighter_Player_Carrier_Pet_3],Cube,C[35585 Space_Borg_Battleship_Raidisode],Transphasic Torpedo,Pn.Oausie1,Shield,,-427.417,-3965.62
15:04:11:20:41:49.5::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Elite Obelisk Swarmer,C[35611 Space_Obelisk_Fighter_Player_Carrier_Pet_3],Cube,C[35585 Space_Borg_Battleship_Raidisode],Transphasic Torpedo,Pn.Oausie1,Kinetic,,3810.11,3748.83
15:04:11:20:41:49.8::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Cube,C[35585 Space_Borg_Battleship_Raidisode],,*,Concentrate Firepower III,Pn.O9h76v1,Kinetic,,749.765,0
15:04:11:20:41:49.8::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Elite Obelisk Swarmer,C[35609 Space_Obelisk_Fighter_Player_Carrier_Pet_3],Cube,C[35585 Space_Borg_Battleship_Raidisode],Transphasic Torpedo,Pn.Oausie1,Shield,,-379.193,-3518.2
15:04:11:20:41:49.8::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Elite Obelisk Swarmer,C[35609 Space_Obelisk_Fighter_Player_Carrier_Pet_3],Cube,C[35585 Space_Borg_Battleship_Raidisode],Transphasic Torpedo,Pn.Oausie1,Kinetic,,3811.38,3533.73
15:04:11:20:41:49.9::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Cube,C[35585 Space_Borg_Battleship_Raidisode],,*,Concentrate Firepower III,Pn.O9h76v1,Kinetic,,706.745,0
Well, outside of the "time delay" with the second two examples. Where the CF3 occurs at 20:41:49.8 for a hit at 20:41:49.5 and it occurs at 20:41:49.9 for a hit at 20:41:49.8...compared to the 20:41:48.2 CF3 and hit with the first.
But with each of the examples...
1st) 3715.1 base damage; 743.02 CF3 hit; 3715.1 * 0.2 = 743.02
2nd) 3748.83 base damage; 749.765 CF3 hit; 3748.83 * 0.2 = 749.766 (some rounding, eh?)
3rd) 3533.73 base damage; 706.745 CF3 hit; 3533.73 * 0.2 = 706.746 (some rounding, eh?)
Course, that was a log from April 11th when the initial problem was raised on March 15th.
There are no release notes suggesting that it was fixed, but it does not appear to be broken.
edit: * * * * * :edit
Going back to a log from March 13th, lol...kind of funny...another issue, but anyway...
15:03:13:03:49:22.9::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[8172 Space_Borg_Battleship_Raidisode],Neutronic Torpedo,Pn.2ugmy6,Shield,,-1341.81,-12165.3
15:03:13:03:49:22.9::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[8172 Space_Borg_Battleship_Raidisode],Neutronic Torpedo,Pn.2ugmy6,Kinetic,,1580.8,7051.96
15:03:13:03:49:22.9::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Cube,C[8172 Space_Borg_Battleship_Raidisode],,*,Concentrate Firepower III,Pn.O9h76v1,Kinetic,,1410.39,0
15:03:13:03:49:22.9::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[8172 Space_Borg_Battleship_Raidisode],Neutronic Torpedo,Pn.2ugmy6,Shield,,-750.856,-1701.87
15:03:13:03:49:22.9::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],,*,Cube,C[8172 Space_Borg_Battleship_Raidisode],Neutronic Torpedo,Pn.2ugmy6,Radiation,,221.147,986.54
15:03:13:03:49:22.9::Willard the Rat,P[6114054@4209758 Willard the Rat@virusdancer],Cube,C[8172 Space_Borg_Battleship_Raidisode],,*,Concentrate Firepower III,Pn.O9h76v1,Kinetic,,197.308,0
1st) 7051.96 * 0.2 = 1410.392...matches up with the CF3 line (minus the 0.002).
2nd) 986.54 * 0.2 = 197.308...matches up with the CF3 line.
Problem with "2nd)" though...it was the Rad hit from the Neutronic...it provided a second CF3 hit based on the Rad hit...lol.
But even on March 13th, it was still otherwise working as expected. 20% of the base damage being done with 100% shield penetration.
edit2: Going back up to that first example with the Ferengi Rapid Fire...
3715.1 base damage.
693.495 damage to Shields.
1271.45 damage to Hull.
6434.32 damage prevented to Hull because of Shields. This being higher than base damage tells us that damage resistance debuffs were in place on the Hull.
90% to Shields: 3343.59
3343.59 * (1 - 0.75) * (1 - 0.14) = 3343.59 * 0.25 * 0.86 = 718.87185
Hrmm, did less damage to shields than expected. Shields were still up though...cause an Array hit 0.6 seconds later hit shields.
Ah, wait...let me try 88.5% to Shields. 3287.8635 * 0.25 * 0.86 = 3287.8635 and nope.
Let me try 87% to Shields. 3232.137 * 0.25 * 0.86 = 694.909455 and we're in range there.
Two stacks of Intense Focus providing the increased Shield Penetration. So I'll need to change what happens with the Hull bit below.
10% to Hull: 371.51; would actually be 13% to Hull: 482.963
We're still looking at the debuff angle. 1271.45 / 482.963 = 2.6326
Which would be ~210 worth of DRR debuffs which wouldn't be that difficult with Sensor Scan, APB, Violent Detonations.
But what it points out is that the CF3 hit isn't subject to the increased damage from the debuffing that was in place...it's just a flat bonus based on the base damage of the attack.
Is it subject to damage resistance when that's in place? Or is this something like the Omega Graviton Amplifier where the damage isn't subject to anything (although the damage here would vary depending on the base damage)...?
If it's not working this way (and I'm pretty sure it's not) it's just another example of needlessly complex/suboptimal/inefficient systems for projectile users. We don't see APB only reducing DR 1 time every 2 seconds, do we?
Not quite sure what specifically you were referring to, but the ~0.5 sec ICD was referencing when the next eligible proc from CF was made available. PEP cloud proc would "steal" the next available CF proc and provide it to the owner of that PEP cloud. If I fired a PEP at a target that had CF on it, I was practically guaranteed to get all eligible CF procs so long as no one else "stole" it with their own PEP.
My initial post made an inquiry asking if the CF mechanic is working as intended: Eligible damage is calculated AFTER shield resists, and then that CF damage is then subjected to hull resists.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Both were replies to the post by wardcalis there...
The first asking if the the CD would actually be every 0.5s or ever 1.0s cause of activation delay that exists. CF triggers, activating, but there's that 0.5s activation delay (sometimes more) with things or if perhaps that 0.5s came about because of the activation delay itself.
With the second, so it is reduced by damage resistance? I don't have any logs against a target with damage resistance...however my logs show it is not increased by damage resistance.
Say we had a torp that did 5000 base damage...
If a target had -10% DR, it's still only going to be 1000 CF3 damage and not 1100 CF3 damage...the negative DR doesn't boost the damage.
But are folks saying that if the target had 10%, that 1000 CF3 damage gets reduced to 900 CF3 damage?
Cause if it works one way but not the other, and taking into account how much damage tends to come from debuffing...the CF damage could definitely look off.
So Plasma Torp hits...CF the Kinetic, CF the DoT, and as the DoT ticks...CF, CF, CF, etc.
Wait, was it PEP EWP or PDoT? Or was it both?
Does the same happen with Gravimetric and Bio-Molecular? Would we see the same Kinetic and "special" occur with each of the torps that have a "special"...?
Wonder if that's what Bort might have meant about not quite working...hrmm.
Not all PDoTs...as in not all PDoTs where the Kinetic did CF...or...as in not all PDoTs where the Kinetic didn't CF?
Along the lines of the following fake lines....
Plasma Torp...Kinetic...
Plasma Torp...PDoT...
Concentrate...via Kinetic...
Concentrate...via PDoT...
Concentrate...via PDoT...
Concentrate...via PDoT...
vs
Plasma Torp...Kinetic...
Plasma Torp...PDoT...
Concentrate...via Kinetic...
no Concentrate...via PDoT...
This is one of the ways in which it is not currently Working As Intended. Plasma DOTs should not be triggering the CF bonus damage - that is a bug, and has been fixed internally.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Would that apply to various other secondary effects that might come about from a torp? Like the Rad I was seeing from Neutronic and other things out there?
Thanks for taking the time to reply to the thread, btw.
VS unshielded targets, it's meh-ish, because it's base damage.
VS shielded targets, .... yea..... it's flat.
Is there a problem with using player/team damage buffs (buffs only, not applied debuffs to the target) to calculate CF damage? That way it would not double-dip on any debuffs applied to the target, and not have to have abysmally small numbers show up when the torp that hits a non-debuffed target for 200K has a CF damage of X < 10K?
Thank you.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.