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Best way to win the Iconian war

theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,986 Arc User
edited April 2015 in Ten Forward
Modify a Iconian gateway to send a chroniton device to the Iconian homeworld around 250,000 years ago and set it to go off by timer.

Iconians defeated before they get chance to build an army for this war
NMXb2ph.png
    "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
    -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
    Post edited by theraven2378 on

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      capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
      edited April 2015
      I always thought it would be a neat twist if it turned out that we were the ones who shot up their homeworld in the first place. :cool:
      My old (and now mostly obsolete) exploration suggestions thread. Give it a read. :)
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      theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,986 Arc User
      edited April 2015
      Ignore the temporal prime directive on this one, by eliminating them before they realise what is happening would save lives in the long run.
      NMXb2ph.png
        "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
        -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
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        ailmereailmere Member Posts: 238 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        The species who destroyed the Iconians were never revealed, just known as their enemies. So the Alliance might have.
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        iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        I think this is a horrible idea and should be avoided.
        ExtxpTp.jpg
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        hawku001xhawku001x Member Posts: 10,758 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        Peace is the answer. Diplomacy. Meet and greets. Group sessions. Paper work. Subtle nods.
        Phoenix_Compendium_1.jpg
        USS Phoenix-X Literary Index | Comics | Most recent story: "The Opposite of That"
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        ailmereailmere Member Posts: 238 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        How? An Iconian handshake destroyed the Klingon High Council! They can't sign anything, handshake, pick anything up and a wide manner of things, and they are made out of spacey stuff that no one could probably touch.
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        grandnaguszek1grandnaguszek1 Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        ailmere wrote: »
        How? An Iconian handshake destroyed the Klingon High Council! They can't sign anything, handshake, pick anything up and a wide manner of things, and they are made out of spacey stuff that no one could probably touch.

        What? I'm pretty sure they do have hands.
        say-star-wars-is-better.jpg
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        gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        A nasty thing Section 31 would be evil enough to consider (remember, they are guilty of attempted genocide against the Founders)...

        We know that the Devidians are extremely skilled with time travel, and that on top of that, their phase shift is specified to be a temporal one. We also know they are powerful enough that in "Time's Arrow" Picard seemed to believe they were making a serious threat against Earth, and in STO we saw them darned near pull an entire sector out of temporal alignment with the rest. IMO the Iconians would not like having these guys around and it is easy to see the Devidians as enemies of the Iconians as we are.

        The way I see it, Section 31 might well try to get the Devidians to strike against the Heralds and Iconians by, say, pulling the Iconia system out of temporal phase, by offering the Devidians the chance at a certain amount of time to do whatever they want to the sphere's inhabitants. Even the tiny phase shift could severely mess with the Heralds' and Iconians' minds.

        This would be an awful plan morally because it means condoning mass murder and additionally it could risk making the Devidians a much more powerful enemy later, but to my mind it is not impossible that S31 would attempt to make a deal with "the devil we know," against "the devil we don't know."

        (Oh...and my toon Alyosha would not approve at all of the plan.)

        Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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        wotertoolwotertool Member Posts: 96 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        theraven2378 wrote: »
        Modify a Iconian gateway to send a chroniton device to the Iconian homeworld around 250,000 years ago and set it to go off by timer.

        Iconians defeated before they get chance to build an army for this war

        Good idea, I bet the Political Powers in the Galaxy won't change at all if you alter the past.
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        gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        It seems that another poster is suggesting the original defeat of the Iconians was a predestination paradox. Now of course if it isn't, then that move would be trouble.

        The Devidian solution could be implemented--IF the Devidians could be convinced not to attempt a more major temporal disruption, by relying strictly on their very slight form of temporal displacement. (But that ignores the horrible ethical implications of actually doing it, which I won't deny.)

        Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
        Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
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        gr8captaingr8captain Member Posts: 35 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        I am thinking that the Undine and the Founders are going to be playing a part in the Iconian demise. I think we can still get at least 3 seasons with the Iconian war and the final battle will take place in either the Gamma quadrant or Andromeda galaxy.
        You Klingon TRIBBLE You Killed My Son.
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        gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        gr8captain wrote: »
        I am thinking that the Undine and the Founders are going to be playing a part in the Iconian demise. I think we can still get at least 3 seasons with the Iconian war and the final battle will take place in either the Gamma quadrant or Andromeda galaxy.

        The Undine certainly have a grievance against the Iconians for falsely leading them to war. Callous as they can be sometimes, I have to think they are angered by the needless deaths among their people. If convinced of the truth en masse, they could well wish to strike back at the Iconians.

        Not so sure the Founders have a similar grievance...unless it was the Iconians who traumatized them into hatred of solids to begin with?

        Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
        Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
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        markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        gulberat wrote: »
        A nasty thing Section 31 would be evil enough to consider (remember, they are guilty of attempted genocide against the Founders)...

        We know that the Devidians are extremely skilled with time travel, and that on top of that, their phase shift is specified to be a temporal one. We also know they are powerful enough that in "Time's Arrow" Picard seemed to believe they were making a serious threat against Earth, and in STO we saw them darned near pull an entire sector out of temporal alignment with the rest. IMO the Iconians would not like having these guys around and it is easy to see the Devidians as enemies of the Iconians as we are.

        The way I see it, Section 31 might well try to get the Devidians to strike against the Heralds and Iconians by, say, pulling the Iconia system out of temporal phase, by offering the Devidians the chance at a certain amount of time to do whatever they want to the sphere's inhabitants. Even the tiny phase shift could severely mess with the Heralds' and Iconians' minds.

        This would be an awful plan morally because it means condoning mass murder and additionally it could risk making the Devidians a much more powerful enemy later, but to my mind it is not impossible that S31 would attempt to make a deal with "the devil we know," against "the devil we don't know."

        (Oh...and my toon Alyosha would not approve at all of the plan.)
        I don't see how it would be morally any worse than killing them all ourselves. Negotiating with the Devidians is like negotiating with Galactus. they have one primary concern, Food. But they see you as Food.

        Reed Richards once found a way to give Galactus what he wanted without having others get killed. Maybe we could do the same?
        -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
        My character Tsin'xing
        Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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        gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        markhawkman wrote: »
        I don't see how it would be morally any worse than killing them all ourselves. Negotiating with the Devidians is like negotiating with Galactus. they have one primary concern, Food. But they see you as Food.

        Reed Richards once found a way to give Galactus what he wanted without having others get killed. Maybe we could do the same?

        The difference with resorting to the "Devidian option" is that we are officially giving up ANY hope of negotiation or defeating the Heralds without engaging in flat-out ethnic cleansing/genocide, similar to Section 31's decision to commit genocide against the Founders. The Devidian "negotiators" aren't likely to accept a mere "cut" of the lives aboard the Sphere.

        Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
        Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
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        ryan218ryan218 Member Posts: 36,106 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        markhawkman wrote: »
        I don't see how it would be morally any worse than killing them all ourselves. Negotiating with the Devidians is like negotiating with Galactus. they have one primary concern, Food. But they see you as Food.

        Reed Richards once found a way to give Galactus what he wanted without having others get killed. Maybe we could do the same?

        Do we still have that cloning facility from the Friday 13th Mission?

        :P
        Old Wounds
        Trials of Blood and Fire
        Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
        In Cold Blood
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        spockout1spockout1 Member Posts: 314 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        I feel like this about STO some days.
        "After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true. Except for a T5 Connie. That would be f*%#ing awesome." - Mr. Spock
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        archangelmortenarchangelmorten Member Posts: 23 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        gulberat wrote: »
        A nasty thing Section 31 would be evil enough to consider (remember, they are guilty of attempted genocide against the Founders)...

        We know that the Devidians are extremely skilled with time travel, and that on top of that, their phase shift is specified to be a temporal one. We also know they are powerful enough that in "Time's Arrow" Picard seemed to believe they were making a serious threat against Earth, and in STO we saw them darned near pull an entire sector out of temporal alignment with the rest. IMO the Iconians would not like having these guys around and it is easy to see the Devidians as enemies of the Iconians as we are.

        The way I see it, Section 31 might well try to get the Devidians to strike against the Heralds and Iconians by, say, pulling the Iconia system out of temporal phase, by offering the Devidians the chance at a certain amount of time to do whatever they want to the sphere's inhabitants. Even the tiny phase shift could severely mess with the Heralds' and Iconians' minds.

        This would be an awful plan morally because it means condoning mass murder and additionally it could risk making the Devidians a much more powerful enemy later, but to my mind it is not impossible that S31 would attempt to make a deal with "the devil we know," against "the devil we don't know."

        (Oh...and my toon Alyosha would not approve at all of the plan.)

        Too complicated and messy. From a storytelling point of view, the simpler a solution, the better. It's already been well established that the Iconians—and the Vaaduar after them, many millennia later—were defeated when the other races united against them. Why toss that out, especially for something that would royally TRIBBLE up time lines and that would require entire rewrites, relaunches, and so forth?

        Now, it would actually be a nice touch to use your idea in some fashion, say, the Devidians try to feed on the Iconians or pull Iconia into their space or something, and because the Iconians' minds are destroyed by time travel, they end up asking the Alliance for assistance, or more likely, the Alliance itself decides that the Devidians all amped up on Iconian brain juice is too big a threat to ignore, even if it would take care of the Iconians for good. That can be an awesome mission in the game, if written properly. But as a resolution to the whole Iconian story arc, I think it's best to play the story out on the track the developers have already begun.
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        markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        ryan218 wrote: »
        Do we still have that cloning facility from the Friday 13th Mission?

        :P
        I was thinking more along the lines of genetically engineering a fungus or something to create a similar energy aura.
        gulberat wrote: »
        The difference with resorting to the "Devidian option" is that we are officially giving up ANY hope of negotiation or defeating the Heralds without engaging in flat-out ethnic cleansing/genocide, similar to Section 31's decision to commit genocide against the Founders. The Devidian "negotiators" aren't likely to accept a mere "cut" of the lives aboard the Sphere.
        I dunno... do we have reason to believe the Devidians COULD wipe out the Heralds on their own? It seems a bit premature to assume they could simply over-run the Heralds and exterminate them.
        -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
        My character Tsin'xing
        Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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        grandnaguszek1grandnaguszek1 Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        Why don't we just have Neelix make food that we could fire at the Iconians. They'll be dropping like flies.
        say-star-wars-is-better.jpg
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        evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        We just need to go 6 months back in time and get the preservers info before it gets vaporized.
        Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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        ryan218ryan218 Member Posts: 36,106 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        grandnaguszek1 wrote: »
        Why don't we just have Neelix make food that we could fire at the Iconians. They'll be dropping like flies.

        Perfect World, 'Like' Button. Get on it. :D
        Old Wounds
        Trials of Blood and Fire
        Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
        In Cold Blood
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        demonicaestheticdemonicaesthetic Member Posts: 3 Arc User
        edited April 2015
        Hmmm, time travel turns Iconian brains into soup...

        Sneak a strike team into an Iconian gate, travel to the ship-filled- invasion sphere just before they move it, sabotage the controls so it moves IN time when they try to relocate, invasion sphere arrives with thousands of nice new ships crewed by mindless drooling imbeciles, the alliance moves in, fumigates the ships and sells them for a huge profit.
        <center><font size="+5"><b>Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day...
        Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
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