It was just what the average players were doing...simple as that, imho. Folks massively below what those average players do (say folks that might show up for a HSA doing 556 DPS or for ISA doing 1947 DPS for example)...want to blame the DPS folks for it. But it's just all the folks that were doing their 4-6k DPS that were making a mockery of Cryptic's content, imho.
All sorts of scapegoating going on...meh.
It seems that way.
Some of the thread post here try to claim left and right but dont even play PvE, so it doesnt affect them, nor have proven they actually play the hardest to warrant their capabilities and reasoning.
The excuse of just having HP is a lousy excuse for certain players who cannot do DPS. Because DPS is directly proportional to skill. Because these certain players have massive egos nor can prove they can finish the current hard content of the game, they need to massage their egos for it.
Competitive PvE...indirect PvP. Cryptic's killing off direct PvP in the game, there's no fighting that...but there's still plenty one can be competitive about in the game. Folks could get their teams together and challenge other teams in taking on the various content in the game. Sure, the enemies are static vs. dynamic...but otherwise, there are just so many similarities between the two groups - would have thought there would be more of that going on than there is. Most folks that might have given it the tiniest thought though, have left...meh.
Being called a carebear isn't necessarily an insult, it just reflects your values for the game. Do RPers get insulted when you refer to them or the game as Space Barbie? Do DPSers cry foul every time someone says they're just chasing pointless goals?
Calling someone "carebear" or "space barbie" is derogatory and vastly ignorant of what that person actually values. Don't use terms that exist only to marginalize people if you want a serious, respectful discussion.
Calling someone "carebear" or "space barbie" is derogatory and vastly ignorant of what that person actually values. Don't use terms that exist only to marginalize people if you want a serious, respectful discussion.
Yeah, it would be one thing if using those terms would at least make the people go away - but since it doesn't do that either, it kind of makes it moot...turns into just a venting thing.
A lot of the PvEers simply lack the desire to learn the game at the same level a PvPer does.
I'm not sure you understand just how much condescending, pretentious elitism drips from pretty much every word of this post.
The previous poster got your point just fine. You don't seem to have gotten his: that some of us avoid PvP not because we can't keep up, but because we don't like the attitude and community that go along with it. PvP tends to attract a certain kind of player--one who gets their enjoyment from ruining other people's fun and waving around their e-peen. PvP, by its very nature, pits people against each other in a virtual "deathmatch"--and that brings out the worst in far too many people.
Is that every PvPer? Certainly not. But there's enough of them to make it un-fun in a hurry. I've been playing competitive online multiplayer games of various genres for two decades, and no matter what kind of game I've played--RTS, FPS, MMO--I have always eventually reached a point where I'm just like, "you know what? This isn't even about friendly competition anymore, you guys are just being d-bags for lulz."
Got better things to do with my time than put up with d-bags that I don't have to.
Fleet Admiral L'Yern - Screenshot and doffing addict
Eclipse Class Intel Cruiser U.S.S. Dioscuria NX-91121-A - Interactive Crew Roster
I'm not sure you understand just how much condescending, pretentious elitism drips from pretty much every word of this post.
The previous poster got your point just fine. You don't seem to have gotten his: that some of us avoid PvP not because we can't keep up, but because we don't like the attitude and community that go along with it. PvP tends to attract a certain kind of player--one who gets their enjoyment from ruining other people's fun and waving around their e-peen. PvP, by its very nature, pits people against each other in a virtual "deathmatch"--and that brings out the worst in far too many people.
Is that every PvPer? Certainly not. But there's enough of them to make it un-fun in a hurry. I've been playing competitive online multiplayer games of various genres for two decades, and no matter what kind of game I've played--RTS, FPS, MMO--I have always eventually reached a point where I'm just like, "you know what? This isn't even about friendly competition anymore, you guys are just being d-bags for lulz."
Got better things to do with my time than put up with d-bags that I don't have to.
You just described PVE folks too. People are people, whether they PvP or PVE. Lots of folks have a bad experience with some folks and decide that applies to all folks.
Thanks it was very informitive and i appreciate you linking me the video
As far as power creep in STO i think cryptic needs to address it sooner then later and as it is now they just keep introducing more and more stuff making the issue of power creep larger and larger.
Id say an overhaul to how the level of out items pertain to newer content as it is the way they have done STFs and newer content its made alot of the gear we have worked very hard to get useless.
But they give this really pitifull upgrade system as a band aid for the power creep issue its their way of ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room.
If anything is going to ultimatley kill STO it will be power creep
Again Ursusmorologus thanks for the vid on what power creep is
What PvP community-you mean those people playing Driveclub, SWTOR, WOT, Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen MWO and Eve now instead of STO?
even the guys who were deeply involved (the guys running PvP bootcamp being a strong example) have either given up entirely on STO, or don't bother trying to PvP in STO anymore-there's no point, there's no balance, no rewards, no support, no development of PvP or for PvP beyond the throwing of new abilities that are irrelevant to PvE, and broken in PvP.
It's gone. Five years of consistent neglect and two years of the devs seeing how ridiculously they can powercreep the game combined to kill it.
It's at the point (well past it) where even the people who identify themselves as PvP players don't PvP anymore-they PvE to prepare for PvP they're never going to get the opportunity to play.
Ahahahaha you damn deserve a truck of medals for mentioning Driveclub!
For the rest, 101% true. I just moved to better games. Hack-trolling players in Watch Dogs, Battlefield at times, most of the time Driveclub.
Because really here's the breakdown. In STO I'd have to do an endless grind to gain the items I'd need for my ships, unable to do PvP, suffer lag and rubberbanding, play the same old overpriced content on a game engine that's asking for mercy, devs who won't listen.
In Driveclub I get to have world's best graphics in a game, no lags, no rubberbanding of any sort, constant updates, devs who listen to players, DLC that cost a few euros and packed with ton of content and best of all, car classes are actually balanced. The season pass that includes all DLCs released in half a year costs as much as a C-Store Sovereign.
Why would I want to play STO? There's no frigging reason.
ps. We're getting LaFerrari this week, to hell if I'm going to open STO. I'll be camping multiplayer with that car and make jelly those who didn't get the needed achievement to unlock it yet! Then racing time trials and score some world records with it.
Borticus saying we were some... uh, sociopathic small community of some sort that creates only anger? Yeah something like that. And Geko calling 14-years old basement-dwelling min/maxers.
Muahahah really find me a reason to play STO. They failed worse than EA.
Except, there are times... Saturday-this last saturday, I managed to get into an Arena (Something that rarely happens anymore)...just late enough, to be slipped onto a team that was spawn-killing the last guy left from the other side.
as in, Four on One.
None of these guys were 'names' in PvP-none of them were from fleets normally involved in PvP, and none were handles or @ handles I've seen in the PvP forums...
It was douchey behaviour. If the guy being gang-mobbed at the spawn was a newbie, that's a guy who's never going to do that again (Play PvP.)
15-0 lolkillz is NOT a gg.
It's ****ing lame.
You know it's bad when someone like me who treasures every opportunity to take a shot holds back and mutters "Is it too late to change sides?" because the instance is so rickockulously unbalanced.
and it was unbalanced-they wre dropping chain disables and surgical strikes on the guy while he was still in 'disabled' after respawn-you know, when your tray is grayed out and your throttle doesn't work for five seconds or so.
that is like the definition of the PvP douchebag right there.
And...based on some of the things folks say...would have to say that's the experience that quite a few folks have had out there, eh?
And...based on some of the things folks say...would have to say that's the experience that quite a few folks have had out there, eh?
lol changing signatures like crazy, I wonder how you even do it.
That being said, I think PvP's broken beyond repair, at least for the community. The only thing that could make a difference is the devs actually spending time to re-create a fun environment.
But! We all know the answer, it won't happen. lolsto.
here, lemme call a WAAAAMbulance for ya, in the meantime, have some cheese with your whine...
any discussion of balance in this game is going to eventually bring up the topic of PvP-because it's the only position where you, as a player, can actually test balance beyond counting DPS.
if you don't like it, then there are other threads where you can discuss costumes and voice acting to your heart's content, or sit around ******** and blaming a nonexistent, extinct, community when something you like gets nerfed.
nevermind the business model that is at work, which requires creating and selling power-and powercreep, pretty much Requires that Cryptic introduce new, overpowered things, sells lots of them, then nerfs them so that new, overpowered things can again be sold.
Until we get to a point where PUGs can reliable complete an Advanced Queue with at least 50% success rate, they can creep that power all they like.
I literally just logged in, updated my research on 3 toons, and logged out. I have nothing to do.
I'm well beyond normals, one of my guys is good enough to pull his weight in advanced, the other two are slow in progress since Upgrade Research takes decades and there is no point in doing anything beyond Mk XII or XIII if you really wanna dump some dilithium until you hit 15 and can make the good ones.
So log in, update my researches, log out. I also did my rep daily on the one I'm currently working on right now on each person...but thats another 5 second process.
I have nothing to do. I have no content to play thats worth my time. I could go spam spacebar at a Starbase assault and maybe come out with 40,000 EC or so...then wait 30 minutes to do another one.
Could go fail ISA, then wait 30 minutes to fail it again. I don't even care about earning BNP's right now, so even if those DID succeed, I have no reason to play them. There is 1 rep item I want right now, but I can't get it because it requires an item I can only get from an Advanced Queues (or like 5) that I have literally never seen won, and 3 of the other 4 I've never seen actually fire in the first place, one of them I don't even know what you do in it, because I've never done it, because nobody queues for it.
Until you make rewards that I can actually attain, I don't see much point in logging in. I spend most of my time spinning the camera around at Spacedock and looking at other peoples ships.
Looking forward to Season 10, more stories to do, thats fun...but after I finish those? Nothing to do again.
Until we get to a point where PUGs can reliable complete an Advanced Queue with at least 50% success rate, they can creep that power all they like.
I literally just logged in, updated my research on 3 toons, and logged out. I have nothing to do.
I'm well beyond normals, one of my guys is good enough to pull his weight in advanced, the other two are slow in progress since Upgrade Research takes decades and there is no point in doing anything beyond Mk XII or XIII if you really wanna dump some dilithium until you hit 15 and can make the good ones.
So log in, update my researches, log out. I also did my rep daily on the one I'm currently working on right now on each person...but thats another 5 second process.
I have nothing to do. I have no content to play thats worth my time. I could go spam spacebar at a Starbase assault and maybe come out with 40,000 EC or so...then wait 30 minutes to do another one.
Could go fail ISA, then wait 30 minutes to fail it again. I don't even care about earning BNP's right now, so even if those DID succeed, I have no reason to play them. There is 1 rep item I want right now, but I can't get it because it requires an item I can only get from an Advanced Queues (or like 5) that I have literally never seen won, and 3 of the other 4 I've never seen actually fire in the first place, one of them I don't even know what you do in it, because I've never done it, because nobody queues for it.
Until you make rewards that I can actually attain, I don't see much point in logging in. I spend most of my time spinning the camera around at Spacedock and looking at other peoples ships.
Looking forward to Season 10, more stories to do, thats fun...but after I finish those? Nothing to do again.
How are you experiencing less than a 50% success rate? What are you including beyond ISA? What other queues?
What rewards can't you attain? Everything is available outside of the current queues...
edit: Well, until Tuesday - anybody seen anything about getting Iconian Marks outside of the queues?
You'll never be able to maintain a stream of new players. Inevitably, each paying player will reach their own point where the power creep finally pisses them off enough to stop paying.
There is 1 rep item I want right now, but I can't get it because it requires an item I can only get from an Advanced Queues (or like 5) that I have literally never seen won, and 3 of the other 4 I've never seen actually fire in the first place, one of them I don't even know what you do in it, because I've never done it, because nobody queues for it.
Isomorphic Injections can be acquired in the Voth battlezone with far less effort and at far greater a rate than from any STF content.
I'm well beyond normals, one of my guys is good enough to pull his weight in advanced, the other two are slow in progress since Upgrade Research takes decades and there is no point in doing anything beyond Mk XII or XIII if you really wanna dump some dilithium until you hit 15 and can make the good ones.
Are you sure you don't need to improve your piloting skills? Or maybe just break free of lazy piloting and bad habits?
A combination of mk XII UR fleet gear, plus mk XII VR rep gear, can handle most advanced space STFs. Better pilots can manage with less. Upgrading the level of your weapons to mk XIV helps, and unlike upgrading item quality, isn't a horrendous resource sink.
Or get into the ground game; each piece is cheaper, and you only need like 1/5th the amount of gear.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
How are you experiencing less than a 50% success rate? What are you including beyond ISA? What other queues?
What rewards can't you attain? Everything is available outside of the current queues...
edit: Well, until Tuesday - anybody seen anything about getting Iconian Marks outside of the queues?
Estimated success rate of the random advanced I have played in the last 2 months, about 5%, 1 in 20. If it was better then that, I'd be swimming in drops.
Ancient Power Cell, can't get'em. I have 2 from luck in rep boxes, thats it.
I've attempted Borg Disconnected 40+ times (adv.) , I have never seen it won. My DPS is about 6,500, and I'm a Sci Officer, running a drain and control build and I still have work to do on that ship, lots. Could easily hit 8k at least once I get the resources to make my current gear Mk XIV (its all very rare or better).
I tried Bug Hunt about 5 times, its just an awful experience and I'd rather gorge my eyes out with a toothpick then play it again, none of those were successful either btw.
Getting APC is straight up impossible right now. Even if I COULD get the like 3 successful runs I need to get the ONE item I care about through Rep right now, THEN what? The moment I get it, I'm right back to where I am right now, nothing to do.
You'll never be able to maintain a stream of new players. Inevitably, each paying player will reach their own point where the power creep finally pisses them off enough to stop paying.
Isomorphic Injections can be acquired in the Voth battlezone with far less effort and at far greater a rate than from any STF content.
Are you sure you don't need to improve your piloting skills? Or maybe just break free of lazy piloting and bad habits?
A combination of mk XII UR fleet gear, plus mk XII VR rep gear, can handle most advanced space STFs. Better pilots can manage with less. Upgrading the level of your weapons to mk XIV helps, and unlike upgrading item quality, isn't a horrendous resource sink.
Or get into the ground game; each piece is cheaper, and you only need like 1/5th the amount of gear.
My ship and build aren't 70k or something insane, but its a solid little ship at about 6.5k with sub-optimal gear ATM. I realize some of it IS my fault, but its mostly out of my control...I want Mk XIV just like everyone else, but I need Research at 15 first, that takes ages and requires no real interaction. The game literally makes you sit and wait a month to play it again with these time gates.
I try pretty hard, and I feel comfortable that although I'm sure I'm not the best pilot ever, I'm competent. My issues isn't MY ship, its the fact that I bring up a DPS combat log and I'm the #1 ship at 6,700 dps.
I don't need or really want Iso Injections, I need Ancient Power Cells.
I'd also rather uninstall then play ground. Ground is ****ing awful.
I've attempted Borg Disconnected 40+ times (adv.) , I have never seen it won.
That's a bad queue. The fail comes with not rescuing enough ships; most players focus on combat. Temporary hitpoints are a huge benefit; three points in pilot plus 2x APB1 makes rescuing liberated ships easy. I still avoid it, because yeah, it has a high fail rate, and also because I despise the DPS race at the end.
My DPS is about 6,500, and I'm a Sci Officer, running a drain and control build and I still have work to do on that ship, lots.
Drain builds can readily break 10k, but you need to first acknowledge that you're aiming to play a lower DPS setup, in a game that doesn't really require the benefits your build provides.
I tried Bug Hunt about 5 times, its just an awful experience and I'd rather gorge my eyes out with a toothpick then play it again, none of those were successful either btw.
BHA would get you those APCs. Just make sure to kill the three alarm bugs. You need physical resist, psionic resist, and toxic resist. A dedicated healer is more of a liability in a PUG than a dedicated DPS with the ability to direct heal.
I got into BHA using exclusively Nukara gear, which doesn't require any elite marks. Eventually I refined the build to include some 8472 gear; the kit from the 8472 rep store is especially useful.
Comments
Undercover Geko. :rolleyes:
It seems that way.
Some of the thread post here try to claim left and right but dont even play PvE, so it doesnt affect them, nor have proven they actually play the hardest to warrant their capabilities and reasoning.
The excuse of just having HP is a lousy excuse for certain players who cannot do DPS. Because DPS is directly proportional to skill. Because these certain players have massive egos nor can prove they can finish the current hard content of the game, they need to massage their egos for it.
Calling someone "carebear" or "space barbie" is derogatory and vastly ignorant of what that person actually values. Don't use terms that exist only to marginalize people if you want a serious, respectful discussion.
Yeah, it would be one thing if using those terms would at least make the people go away - but since it doesn't do that either, it kind of makes it moot...turns into just a venting thing.
The previous poster got your point just fine. You don't seem to have gotten his: that some of us avoid PvP not because we can't keep up, but because we don't like the attitude and community that go along with it. PvP tends to attract a certain kind of player--one who gets their enjoyment from ruining other people's fun and waving around their e-peen. PvP, by its very nature, pits people against each other in a virtual "deathmatch"--and that brings out the worst in far too many people.
Is that every PvPer? Certainly not. But there's enough of them to make it un-fun in a hurry. I've been playing competitive online multiplayer games of various genres for two decades, and no matter what kind of game I've played--RTS, FPS, MMO--I have always eventually reached a point where I'm just like, "you know what? This isn't even about friendly competition anymore, you guys are just being d-bags for lulz."
Got better things to do with my time than put up with d-bags that I don't have to.
Eclipse Class Intel Cruiser U.S.S. Dioscuria NX-91121-A - Interactive Crew Roster
You just described PVE folks too. People are people, whether they PvP or PVE. Lots of folks have a bad experience with some folks and decide that applies to all folks.
Thanks it was very informitive and i appreciate you linking me the video
As far as power creep in STO i think cryptic needs to address it sooner then later and as it is now they just keep introducing more and more stuff making the issue of power creep larger and larger.
Id say an overhaul to how the level of out items pertain to newer content as it is the way they have done STFs and newer content its made alot of the gear we have worked very hard to get useless.
But they give this really pitifull upgrade system as a band aid for the power creep issue its their way of ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room.
If anything is going to ultimatley kill STO it will be power creep
Again Ursusmorologus thanks for the vid on what power creep is
Ahahahaha you damn deserve a truck of medals for mentioning Driveclub!
For the rest, 101% true. I just moved to better games. Hack-trolling players in Watch Dogs, Battlefield at times, most of the time Driveclub.
Because really here's the breakdown. In STO I'd have to do an endless grind to gain the items I'd need for my ships, unable to do PvP, suffer lag and rubberbanding, play the same old overpriced content on a game engine that's asking for mercy, devs who won't listen.
In Driveclub I get to have world's best graphics in a game, no lags, no rubberbanding of any sort, constant updates, devs who listen to players, DLC that cost a few euros and packed with ton of content and best of all, car classes are actually balanced. The season pass that includes all DLCs released in half a year costs as much as a C-Store Sovereign.
Why would I want to play STO? There's no frigging reason.
ps. We're getting LaFerrari this week, to hell if I'm going to open STO. I'll be camping multiplayer with that car and make jelly those who didn't get the needed achievement to unlock it yet! Then racing time trials and score some world records with it.
Borticus saying we were some... uh, sociopathic small community of some sort that creates only anger? Yeah something like that. And Geko calling 14-years old basement-dwelling min/maxers.
Muahahah really find me a reason to play STO. They failed worse than EA.
And...based on some of the things folks say...would have to say that's the experience that quite a few folks have had out there, eh?
lol changing signatures like crazy, I wonder how you even do it.
That being said, I think PvP's broken beyond repair, at least for the community. The only thing that could make a difference is the devs actually spending time to re-create a fun environment.
But! We all know the answer, it won't happen. lolsto.
I still don't know if that sig image is about getting PvPers to do PvE or about getting Cryptic to give PvE the treatment they've given PvP.
lol you nailed it bro.
Meanwhile I called Watch Dogs' waaaaambulance.
...wait, there's none in Watch Dogs!
I know you're just a barely functioning troll and all, but, uh... this is about PvE.
Literally PvE, and nothing else.
I even said that it was about NPCs and their HP in the OP...
I literally just logged in, updated my research on 3 toons, and logged out. I have nothing to do.
I'm well beyond normals, one of my guys is good enough to pull his weight in advanced, the other two are slow in progress since Upgrade Research takes decades and there is no point in doing anything beyond Mk XII or XIII if you really wanna dump some dilithium until you hit 15 and can make the good ones.
So log in, update my researches, log out. I also did my rep daily on the one I'm currently working on right now on each person...but thats another 5 second process.
I have nothing to do. I have no content to play thats worth my time. I could go spam spacebar at a Starbase assault and maybe come out with 40,000 EC or so...then wait 30 minutes to do another one.
Could go fail ISA, then wait 30 minutes to fail it again. I don't even care about earning BNP's right now, so even if those DID succeed, I have no reason to play them. There is 1 rep item I want right now, but I can't get it because it requires an item I can only get from an Advanced Queues (or like 5) that I have literally never seen won, and 3 of the other 4 I've never seen actually fire in the first place, one of them I don't even know what you do in it, because I've never done it, because nobody queues for it.
Until you make rewards that I can actually attain, I don't see much point in logging in. I spend most of my time spinning the camera around at Spacedock and looking at other peoples ships.
Looking forward to Season 10, more stories to do, thats fun...but after I finish those? Nothing to do again.
How are you experiencing less than a 50% success rate? What are you including beyond ISA? What other queues?
What rewards can't you attain? Everything is available outside of the current queues...
edit: Well, until Tuesday - anybody seen anything about getting Iconian Marks outside of the queues?
You'll never be able to maintain a stream of new players. Inevitably, each paying player will reach their own point where the power creep finally pisses them off enough to stop paying.
Isomorphic Injections can be acquired in the Voth battlezone with far less effort and at far greater a rate than from any STF content.
Are you sure you don't need to improve your piloting skills? Or maybe just break free of lazy piloting and bad habits?
A combination of mk XII UR fleet gear, plus mk XII VR rep gear, can handle most advanced space STFs. Better pilots can manage with less. Upgrading the level of your weapons to mk XIV helps, and unlike upgrading item quality, isn't a horrendous resource sink.
Or get into the ground game; each piece is cheaper, and you only need like 1/5th the amount of gear.
Estimated success rate of the random advanced I have played in the last 2 months, about 5%, 1 in 20. If it was better then that, I'd be swimming in drops.
Ancient Power Cell, can't get'em. I have 2 from luck in rep boxes, thats it.
I've attempted Borg Disconnected 40+ times (adv.) , I have never seen it won. My DPS is about 6,500, and I'm a Sci Officer, running a drain and control build and I still have work to do on that ship, lots. Could easily hit 8k at least once I get the resources to make my current gear Mk XIV (its all very rare or better).
I tried Bug Hunt about 5 times, its just an awful experience and I'd rather gorge my eyes out with a toothpick then play it again, none of those were successful either btw.
Getting APC is straight up impossible right now. Even if I COULD get the like 3 successful runs I need to get the ONE item I care about through Rep right now, THEN what? The moment I get it, I'm right back to where I am right now, nothing to do.
My ship and build aren't 70k or something insane, but its a solid little ship at about 6.5k with sub-optimal gear ATM. I realize some of it IS my fault, but its mostly out of my control...I want Mk XIV just like everyone else, but I need Research at 15 first, that takes ages and requires no real interaction. The game literally makes you sit and wait a month to play it again with these time gates.
I try pretty hard, and I feel comfortable that although I'm sure I'm not the best pilot ever, I'm competent. My issues isn't MY ship, its the fact that I bring up a DPS combat log and I'm the #1 ship at 6,700 dps.
I don't need or really want Iso Injections, I need Ancient Power Cells.
I'd also rather uninstall then play ground. Ground is ****ing awful.
Drain builds can readily break 10k, but you need to first acknowledge that you're aiming to play a lower DPS setup, in a game that doesn't really require the benefits your build provides.
BHA would get you those APCs. Just make sure to kill the three alarm bugs. You need physical resist, psionic resist, and toxic resist. A dedicated healer is more of a liability in a PUG than a dedicated DPS with the ability to direct heal.
I got into BHA using exclusively Nukara gear, which doesn't require any elite marks. Eventually I refined the build to include some 8472 gear; the kit from the 8472 rep store is especially useful.
I'm swimming in them.