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Galaxy class

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  • lan451lan451 Member Posts: 3,386 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    jer5488 wrote: »
    Very nice shots. It's great seeing the new Galaxy running around.

    For the huge hi def screenshots, do "/renderscale 2" or "/renderscale 3" - make sure you use "/renderscale 1" when you're done though, because it'll really kill your game performance. But you can get some amazing shots out of it.

    For some reason, STO seems to hate my system. If I try to go past renderscale 1 I get nothing but black screens. That seems to be a DX11 problem. So I have to turn it down to DX9ex but then I can't go past renderscale 1.5 or the game locks up. Best I can do is take them at 1.5 and then shrink them down a bit so they look nice. It's weird and I can't figure it out lol.
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  • captaind3captaind3 Member Posts: 2,445 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Actually you normally spill your guts and die.

    But it would be nice to have a slightly more sturdy BOP
    I think one thing I would like is to remove the torpedoes still hit you after you cloak mechanic.

    It's unsupported in canon, and it actually nerfs the hell out of the Bird of Prey/Romulan Battle Cloak style. Strike and fade away. If they can still nail you while you're fading away then it's rather pointless. It works fine if the opponents running a beam boat, but if they have a solid torpedo game you're gonna get yourself killed.

    Having the cloak break all target locks emphasizes the importance of that time while you're decloaked.
    While I am perfectly happy with a new Galaxy model, I just wanted to say that compared to it, my Dreadnought Galaxy now looks like an old TRIBBLE. It's not fair. I want revamp of my Galaxy X :(

    Btw where's my T6 Sovereign? I'm waiting for her too a long time :D
    Patience...good things come to those who wait.

    As far as the Galaxy X I'm getting by by using the Venture parts. Galaxy Saucer, Stardrive, and pylons, with the Venture neck and nacelles.
    ghyudt wrote: »
    Lursa and betor did indeed have a huge advantage by being able to bypass the enterprise D's shields. Any ship would have been severely damaged if not destroyed in this situation. But the enterprise STILL managed to destroy them first, and with a single photon torpedo.
    (implied, what are you crazy?) THAT is a Galaxy Class starship, we're no match for them!

    First time a member of the House of Duras simply spoke the truth.
    greyhame3 wrote: »
    It needed to be blown up for the plot, so they had something do enough damage to the warp core for it to blow up. They didn't even try ejecting the warp core, which would seem like a logical first step. Though that probably would have failed because Star Trek safety devices fail all the time.
    I think it was specifically stated that Core Ejection was offline. Happened a lot with the E-D actually.

    Looking at 5.10 in the tech manual, while there is a manual option for ejecting the core, it's not really considered workable in a crisis situation. Considering that if you have to do a manual option you probably have to be able physically interact with the core, in the Generations situation you have a coolant leak. As First Contact taught us Warp Core coolant is ULTRA LETHAL. So without Data to walk into the cloud of organic eating death, that was off the table. So if you can knock the automated ejection system out, that's a wrap. Starfleet seems to have corrected that in the Intrepid design though.
    It's also a bit contradicted by the Oddyssey being able to take a beating and keep going from multiple Jem'hadar attack ships with ineffective shields (it seems the only reason it was destroyed is that it was rammed since it was making it's way back to the wormhole under it's own). Unless we want to try and rationalize the fact that those ship's weapons are less powerful than an out of date bird of prey.

    Star Trek is ultimately a drama and on screen evidence of how well a ship can do in certain situation is contradictory and unreliable.
    The Odyssey died because the Captain, quite logically, dropped shields altogether when they were found to be ineffective. If the shields had still been up then the Jem'Hadar ship would've bounced off...albeit the ship would've still taken serious damage, but likely wouldn't have been destroyed.

    As for the Difference between Jem'Hadar Phased Polaron and Klingon Disruptors, I laugh at Lursa and B'Etor if they were so broke they couldn't upgrade their antique ship's guns. It's also easily possible that a Galaxy class' armor rating is just that solid. The battle between the Duras and the Enterprise was roughly the same amount of time firing as the Odyssey's final fight and the Jem'Hadar did A LOT more damage.

    As for the Duras...it was a lucky shot, straight up. Like this one.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hood_%2851%29#Battle_of_the_Denmark_Strait

    It does happen.

    I prefer not to resort to the written drama angle, if there's a viable in work explanation, even if it does boil down to random chance. It almost always feels like a cheap cop out.

    jer5488 wrote: »
    I understand it needed blown up for the plot - but having the Saucer land and then having the Galaxy battlesection self destruct to seal/repel the nexus and saving all those billions of lives would have been a MUCH more awesome death...

    On the subject of contradicting what has been shown on screen, the beginning of the movie started with ships blowing up inside the Nexus. That doesn't work at all.

    Furthermore destroying the Nexus doesn't address the actual problem of the story at all. The Nexus is just the prize. The goal is to stop Soran from destroying the Star. If the Duras sisters had brain one in their pretty little heads, then they would've cloaked taken their designs for the Trilithium Torpedo waited for Soran to fire off his missile, and been on about their business, leaving the Enterprise to deal with the aftermath of the nova tearing the system apart.
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo9_r1_400.gif
    "Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many — they are few"
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,204 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    jer5488 wrote: »
    It probably doesn't count, but I've recreated that fight in Bridge Commander dozens of times. Me in a Galaxy, angled away from the BOP - no power to shields and shields down. Let them get the first hit - and I've always managed to pull off a win. A Galaxy just has too much firepower to be downed by a BOP - especially one that isn't hit and running, taking advantage of it's cloak.

    I take damage, sure - but never enough to take the Galaxy Class out. Never enough for more then a month in a space dock.

    "Probably doesn't count" is meaningless. The simple fact of the matter is this:

    2 of the 3 "USS Enterprise" ships in canon that were lost in or as a result of combat, have been led to their destruction by a Klingon Bird of Prey.

    It doesn't matter if you destroy your enemy with a straight up, standing fight. It doesn't matter if you destroy the enemy by wearing them down and breaking their will to continue the fight and retreating. It doesn't matter if you brought your enemy to destruction with guile and subterfuge.

    What matters is that 2 of the 3 Enterprises in Star Trek canon were led to their destruction by a Klingon Bird of Prey.

    Doesn't matter if you like it or not. Doesn't matter if the tech manuals say, that, according to specs, it should never happen.

    Because in war and conflict, lots of things can happen and not all things are certain.

    Even in real life, some of the most powerful warships in history have been laid low by things of much smaller classes, displacements, far cheaper in cost to manufacture.
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  • jer5488jer5488 Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    "Probably doesn't count" is meaningless. The simple fact of the matter is this:

    2 of the 3 "USS Enterprise" ships in canon that were lost in or as a result of combat, have been led to their destruction by a Klingon Bird of Prey.


    Doesn't matter if you like it or not. Doesn't matter if the tech manuals say, that, according to specs, it should never happen.

    Because in war and conflict, lots of things can happen and not all things are certain.

    Even in real life, some of the most powerful warships in history have been laid low by things of much smaller classes, displacements, far cheaper in cost to manufacture.

    If the Enterprise-D had opened up with everything they had on the UNCLOAKED Bird of Prey - it would have gone down in a ball of flame in about four seconds. They barely even tried to fight - it was poor writing plain and simple.

    Other Galaxy class ships - even the Enterprise herself - have taken damage the Duras Sister's gave out without flenching.

    I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm not saying BoP's are a bad ship. I am saying that an uncloaked Bird of Prey has no right winning a stand up fight against a superior ship. The only reason a Bird of Prey was used was for budget reasons, and it's explosion is the same footage as the BoP blowing up in Trek 6.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    laforge said it must have been that last torpedo, referring to the core failure, and the only 2 we saw fired were in the opening shots. they did impact as close to the core as physically possible, so there is that. the rest of the damage it caused was fairly inconsequential, minor hull breaches, doubtful there was any internal system damage of note, no casualties.

    the biggest problem in that fight though, is that a GCS has the firepower to obliterate a bop in under 5 seconds, regardless if its shields were set double front, and it was MASSIVELY improved upon over typical.

    if just those first torps are what eventually led to the ship's destruction, then they could have just obliterated the bop right after, and then played through the omg core breach part, skipping the "battle", were riker and worf are too UTTERLY incompetent to just blow the thing away without some contrived nonsense plan.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=H_XbWq49vUM

    basically any time the enterprise jobed during tng, and didn't put up as much of a fight as they did here, i consider a plot hole. its a true shame that the writers couldn't tell a story without making the gigantic, without peer, GCS enterprise, the underdog of almost every single opportunity. i bet they loved voyager, because that ship actually WAS in the position of being an underdog, they didn't have to write around the fact that the leed ship was in a tier of its own.


    oh and that battle with the odyssey, quite a bit of it happened off screen, it got pounded on for like 10 minutes. the standard armor on a galaxy class was simply too strong for such light guns to penetrate it. those bugs pretty much never could have destroyed it conventionally, its more likely that their own shields, tuned to be basically phaser immune, would have failed before the odyssey took significant enough hull damage that it couldn't fight back anymore. even the ram appeared to be just barely enough to trigger the core to breach, or an antimater pod to fail, or something similar.
  • jer5488jer5488 Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I don't mind that the Enterprise D was destroyed - I just wish it wasn't an incompetent death due to filming budget.

    If the Duras sisters had done an amazing dance of firepower and skill, or if they used a new enhanced weapon. Hell, even if they rammed the BoP into the neck assembly as a final 'You suck Starfleet!'.

    It was just so... cheap.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,204 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    jer5488 wrote: »
    If the Enterprise-D had opened up with everything they had on the UNCLOAKED Bird of Prey - it would have gone down in a ball of flame in about four seconds. They barely even tried to fight - it was poor writing plain and simple.

    Other Galaxy class ships - even the Enterprise herself - have taken damage the Duras Sister's gave out without flenching.

    I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm not saying BoP's are a bad ship. I am saying that an uncloaked Bird of Prey has no right winning a stand up fight against a superior ship. The only reason a Bird of Prey was used was for budget reasons, and it's explosion is the same footage as the BoP blowing up in Trek 6.

    If's, And's, But's, Would've, Should've, Could've.

    Did you know that in actual war, a Battleship has been sunk by a mere submarine with less than 100 man crew? Did you know that before Jet Age Carriers, the largest carrier ever built by any nation was sunk by a single submarine firing less than a handful of torpedoes despite the presence of several escorting Destroyers, who's job was to be on guard against submarines? Did you know the largest, mightiest Battleship that was ever made by any nation was sunk by lots of cheap little aircraft? Did you know, that in the Pacific War of WWII, that American Submarines were ordered to make it a point to attack Japanese DESTROYERS (the very things designed to sink Subs) whenever possible?*

    *Lots of reasons in that, BTW.
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  • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    you know what killed the D?

    The Plot
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,204 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    rmy1081 wrote: »
    you know what killed the D?

    The Plot

    And a Bird of Prey :cool:

    And again: Whether you liked it or not, 2 of the 3 Enterprises lost during or as a result of combat, was done in by a Klingon Bird of Prey.

    Not a fan-fic. Not a STO mission. Not a fan-made mission for a game.

    But onscreen canon.

    Whether you liked it or not.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited April 2015
    And a Bird of Prey :cool:

    And again: Whether you liked it or not, 2 of the 3 Enterprises lost during or as a result of combat, was done in by a Klingon Bird of Prey.

    Not a fan-fic. Not a STO mission. Not a fan-made mission for a game.

    But onscreen canon.

    Whether you liked it or not.


    However Klingons not being so bright

    could have just beamed a torpedo on the warp core/ main computer/ or the bridge and insta killed the D

    I like the on screen canon of a Neg'Var and 2 vorcha's being whipped like red headed step children by the Galaxy X in a stand up fight

    They should have had a bird of prey to escort them :P
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • themetalstickmanthemetalstickman Member Posts: 1,009 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    jellico1 wrote: »


    However Klingons not being so bright

    could have just beamed a torpedo on the warp core/ main computer/ or the bridge and insta killed the D

    I like the on screen canon of a Neg'Var and 2 vorcha's being whipped like red headed step children by the Galaxy X in a stand up fight

    They should have had a bird of prey to escort them :P

    If you're referring to All Good Things, that was two Negh'Var's.
    Og12TbC.jpg

    Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.

    I dare you to do better.
  • gpgtxgpgtx Member Posts: 1,574 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    And a Bird of Prey :cool:

    And again: Whether you liked it or not, 2 of the 3 Enterprises lost during or as a result of combat, was done in by a Klingon Bird of Prey.

    Not a fan-fic. Not a STO mission. Not a fan-made mission for a game.

    But onscreen canon.

    Whether you liked it or not.

    a stock footage BoP taken right out of ST6 no less
    victoriasig_zps23c45368.jpg
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,204 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    gpgtx wrote: »
    a stock footage BoP taken right out of ST6 no less

    DS9, for as good as it was, stole a number of footage from the Krik-era movies. I felt that considering how good the show was and all the ships they were showing off, all the 'splosions, it was a very cheap, highly noticeable move. Most esp knowing how hardcore Star Trek fans can be :D
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  • sonnikkusonnikku Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Almost all of DS9's space/combat sequence's near the tail end of season 7 are recycled from favor the bold/sacrifice of angels/other seasons and other pieces of trek. Did they run out of money with 5 episodes to go or something? :confused:
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    If's, And's, But's, Would've, Should've, Could've.

    Did you know that in actual war, a Battleship has been sunk by a mere submarine with less than 100 man crew? Did you know that before Jet Age Carriers, the largest carrier ever built by any nation was sunk by a single submarine firing less than a handful of torpedoes despite the presence of several escorting Destroyers, who's job was to be on guard against submarines? Did you know the largest, mightiest Battleship that was ever made by any nation was sunk by lots of cheap little aircraft? Did you know, that in the Pacific War of WWII, that American Submarines were ordered to make it a point to attack Japanese DESTROYERS (the very things designed to sink Subs) whenever possible?*

    *Lots of reasons in that, BTW.
    That's like apples and oranges.
    WWII tactics don't apply here. There where no shields then. Subs could dive away, WWII fighters used air superority, but in Trek all action takes place on one "level" to say so.
    But even if we accept the WWII comparison, then the submarine wasn't even under water. No it was in plain sight of the Battleship. NO commander (besides Riker) would be so incompetent not to open fire to save the own ship and crew.

    The movies plot was just aimed to get rid of the -D nothing else.
    The BOP didn't even surprise the Enterprise, they simply cheated so they could shoot through the Enterprises shields. IF the -D crew they would have halfway tried to fight back the BOP wouldn't have stand a chance.

    In-universe the loss of the Ent-D was because of total and utter incompetence its bridge crew and first and foremost Cmdr. Riker and to a certain extend Capt. Picard (for leaving the ship in the first place).
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,909 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    yreodred wrote: »
    That's like apples and oranges.
    WWII tactics don't apply here. There where no shields then. Subs could dive away, WWII fighters used air superority, but in Trek all action takes place on one "level" to say so.
    But even if we accept the WWII comparison, then the submarine wasn't even under water. No it was in plain sight of the Battleship. NO commander (besides Riker) would be so incompetent not to open fire to save the own ship and crew.

    The movies plot was just aimed to get rid of the -D nothing else.
    The BOP didn't even surprise the Enterprise, they simply cheated so they could shoot through the Enterprises shields. IF the -D crew they would have halfway tried to fight back the BOP wouldn't have stand a chance.

    In-universe the loss of the Ent-D was because of total and utter incompetence its bridge crew and first and foremost Cmdr. Riker and to a certain extend Capt. Picard (for leaving the ship in the first place).

    Don't forget that they didn't really want to or couldn't shoot new scenes, so they probably didn't even have material depicting a Galaxy firing at a BoP :D
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Don't forget that they didn't really want to or couldn't shoot new scenes, so they probably didn't even have material depicting a Galaxy firing at a BoP :D

    Yeah money always beats canon or even common sense. lol.
    :D:D:D


    On the other hand, the "landing" of the saucer on Veridian III wasn't for free either. I think B&B just wanted to get rid of that ship which stood for a different kind of Trek like they envisioned for themselves.
    Don't get me wrong i like action scenes and space battles maybe more than some other ppl here on the forum, but creating a new ship just for the sake of putting a rediculus amount of guns on it is just laughably. For me it shows that they lack a certain respect or understanding for the IP they inherited.

    If they wanted Trek become a bit more edgy they could have refited the -D and updated the design of it (similar like it was made in TMP). But to "kill" her was a too hard cut from TNG imo.
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • gregbgregb Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Thought i contribute to some Galaxy beauty shots of my own since, becoming a proud owner of a T6 version :P

    USS Arizona in Spacedock

    RQydx2J.jpg

    Orbiting Earth - Bit of a class TNG flyboy shot.

    gitZoXW.jpg

    Orbiting Andoria

    Fa1Tqi5.jpg
  • gpgtxgpgtx Member Posts: 1,574 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    sonnikku wrote: »
    Almost all of DS9's space/combat sequence's near the tail end of season 7 are recycled from favor the bold/sacrifice of angels/other seasons and other pieces of trek. Did they run out of money with 5 episodes to go or something? :confused:



    that's not to far off. the production of DS9 is whole drama of it;s self. it's amazing the show ever finished and was as good as it was
    victoriasig_zps23c45368.jpg
  • captaind3captaind3 Member Posts: 2,445 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    laforge said it must have been that last torpedo, referring to the core failure, and the only 2 we saw fired were in the opening shots. they did impact as close to the core as physically possible, so there is that. the rest of the damage it caused was fairly inconsequential, minor hull breaches, doubtful there was any internal system damage of note, no casualties.

    the biggest problem in that fight though, is that a GCS has the firepower to obliterate a bop in under 5 seconds, regardless if its shields were set double front, and it was MASSIVELY improved upon over typical.
    I think it could've been easily resolved if they had said that not only did they have the ship's shield frequencies, but her weapons frequencies as well. With those, you get Borg style perfect shields.
    if just those first torps are what eventually led to the ship's destruction, then they could have just obliterated the bop right after, and then played through the omg core breach part, skipping the "battle", were riker and worf are too UTTERLY incompetent to just blow the thing away without some contrived nonsense plan.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=H_XbWq49vUM

    basically any time the enterprise jobed during tng, and didn't put up as much of a fight as they did here, i consider a plot hole. its a true shame that the writers couldn't tell a story without making the gigantic, without peer, GCS enterprise, the underdog of almost every single opportunity. i bet they loved voyager, because that ship actually WAS in the position of being an underdog, they didn't have to write around the fact that the leed ship was in a tier of its own.
    Wasn't Voyager pretty much under different leadership though?
    oh and that battle with the odyssey, quite a bit of it happened off screen, it got pounded on for like 10 minutes. the standard armor on a galaxy class was simply too strong for such light guns to penetrate it. those bugs pretty much never could have destroyed it conventionally, its more likely that their own shields, tuned to be basically phaser immune, would have failed before the odyssey took significant enough hull damage that it couldn't fight back anymore. even the ram appeared to be just barely enough to trigger the core to breach, or an antimater pod to fail, or something similar.

    I think you're wrong on that last point. The ram basically slammed right into the core. It doesn't take that much, it destroyed the entire port bow of the lower Stardrive. It's a testament to how tough the Galaxy is that it didn't fly right through but it got close enough.
    http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/0/04/USS_Odyssey_critically_damaged.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080425234715&path-prefix=en

    It's one of those cases where the external damage doesn't show it all. All you need is one I-beam to keep going through the decks and punch through the core stack or a PTC and boom. Look at everything that was destroyed, the Navigational Deflector, one of the highest power parts of the ship, the forward torpedo launcher and any loaded torpedoes, the starboard nacelle. The instant plasma fire would've rampaged through Deck 36 in seconds, the kinetic shock alone might've just shook the core. That is how you get rid of a Galaxy.
    jellico1 wrote: »


    However Klingons not being so bright

    could have just beamed a torpedo on the warp core/ main computer/ or the bridge and insta killed the D

    I like the on screen canon of a Neg'Var and 2 vorcha's being whipped like red headed step children by the Galaxy X in a stand up fight

    They should have had a bird of prey to escort them
    That's true. It would take Janeway to make the transporter torpedo a thing.
    DS9, for as good as it was, stole a number of footage from the Krik-era movies. I felt that considering how good the show was and all the ships they were showing off, all the 'splosions, it was a very cheap, highly noticeable move. Most esp knowing how hardcore Star Trek fans can be :D

    Not that much, remember completely different generation of ships.

    He was referring to how the Duras sisters died in the explosion of Chang's Bird of Prey.

    That said DS9 recycled the hell out of its own footage.

    Generations pretty much had to split its budget and production staff with All Good Things.
    yreodred wrote: »
    Yeah money always beats canon or even common sense. lol.
    :D:D:D


    On the other hand, the "landing" of the saucer on Veridian III wasn't for free either. I think B&B just wanted to get rid of that ship which stood for a different kind of Trek like they envisioned for themselves.
    Don't get me wrong i like action scenes and space battles maybe more than some other ppl here on the forum, but creating a new ship just for the sake of putting a rediculus amount of guns on it is just laughably. For me it shows that they lack a certain respect or understanding for the IP they inherited.

    If they wanted Trek become a bit more edgy they could have refited the -D and updated the design of it (similar like it was made in TMP). But to "kill" her was a too hard cut from TNG imo.

    That's not it at all. They wanted both a model that was easier to work with as the Galaxy as beautiful as she was, was notoriously a ***** to shoot, and they needed something that was higher quality to stand up on the big screen.
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo9_r1_400.gif
    "Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many — they are few"
  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Yeah the only D model that was worth it for big screen quality was the big 6 foot one. And they stopped using in the show because it was unwieldy.

    They did get it up to be the E though before the Sovereign was designed. The later which they only used for one movie before going full CGI.
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    captaind3 wrote: »
    That's not it at all. They wanted both a model that was easier to work with as the Galaxy as beautiful as she was, was notoriously a ***** to shoot, and they needed something that was higher quality to stand up on the big screen.
    And so they had to made a 180 degrees turn in ship design, just to pass on a digital model anyway?
    Unlikely imo.

    Don't get me wrong here, but i have read the same argument about the constitution class model and how happy the producers where when they blew it up in ST:III, only to use it again in the following movies, lol.

    Sure we can't really estimate if the GCS model was difficult to shoot or not, but i don't buy it as only reason to radically change the ship design of the enterprise.
    They surely could have created a design more related to the GCS instead of creating a almost retro looking ship. Again, don't get me wrong the sov has its fans but i can't really see a lineage from Ambassador to Galaxy to Sovereign (from a movie production point of view).
    The Sov design is just too different and frankly too kirk-ish looking imo.
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    yreodred wrote: »
    And so they had to made a 180 degrees turn in ship design, just to pass on a digital model anyway?
    Unlikely imo.

    Don't get me wrong here, but i have read the same argument about the constitution class model and how happy the producers where when they blew it up in ST:III, only to use it again in the following movies, lol.

    Sure we can't really estimate if the GCS model was difficult to shoot or not, but i don't buy it as only reason to radically change the ship design of the enterprise.
    They surely could have created a design more related to the GCS instead of creating a almost retro looking ship. Again, don't get me wrong the sov has its fans but i can't really see a lineage from Ambassador to Galaxy to Sovereign (from a movie production point of view).
    The Sov design is just too different and frankly too kirk-ish looking imo.
    They planned on using the Sovereign model for more movies, but decided to make the transition to complete CGI while doing Insurrection. The model was started before First Contact while they still planned on using studio models for ships.

    The people working with the model said it was difficult to shoot because it weighed to much. It's part of why they made a smaller model they used for most of TNG. The problem is that the 4 foot model was not detailed enough for cinema so they had to use the 6.

    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Galaxy_class_model

    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Sovereign_class_model

    Only thing those don't tell us is how easy the Sovereign was to shoot.
  • gpgtxgpgtx Member Posts: 1,574 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    nope the sov model did not even get started until the end of generations filming as the earliest first contact scrips (still called resurrection) had the E being a galaxy class. also early MSDs on the bridge of the E had a galaxy they had to reshoot some footage after it was decided to use a new ship all together


    the miniture shooting did not even start on first contact until about a month into filming
    victoriasig_zps23c45368.jpg
  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    gpgtx wrote: »
    nope the sov model did not even get started until the end of generations filming as the earliest first contact scrips (still called resurrection) had the E being a galaxy class. also early MSDs on the bridge of the E had a galaxy they had to reshoot some footage after it was decided to use a new ship all together


    the miniture shooting did not even start on first contact until about a month into filming
    Other than the Generations part, that pretty much agrees with what I said. I mis-read something in the articles above.
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    gpgtx wrote: »
    nope the sov model did not even get started until the end of generations filming as the earliest first contact scrips (still called resurrection) had the E being a galaxy class. also early MSDs on the bridge of the E had a galaxy they had to reshoot some footage after it was decided to use a new ship all together


    the miniture shooting did not even start on first contact until about a month into filming
    Yeah, i remember seeing an image of a Galaxy Class model in a box half opened featuring U.S.S. Enterprise -E on its saucer.

    So the decision to use a totally different ship was made while to movie was being shot?
    The more i think about it the stranger it seems.
    Just thinking loud now, what scene was so hard to film that wasn't already being made on TV (of course with less detail) with the Galaxy Model?
    The flyby in front of the Defiant? Doesn't seem too complicated tbh.
    They even used a nebula class model in the battlescene.
    I mean they do not actually move the model, they move the camera around it, while the model stands still.

    And why did the new ship had to look so radical different with almost no connection to the previous one? (if you didn't know better, one could think both ships wheren't even from the same century imo)
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • gpgtxgpgtx Member Posts: 1,574 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    it was decision form paramount to have a "flashy new hot rod" as the enterpise it had nothing to do with how easy or hard the model was to deal with. also braga hated the galaxy class and said if he had to use it again he would destroy it in the first 5 minutes of the movie just to not use it for the remainder

    ironicly he is the one that gave us the challenger (a galaxy) and the final episode of enterpise which was basicly an episode of TNG and took place on the D and had some great exterior shots

    http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x22/thesearethevoyages364.jpg

    http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/e/e7/Galaxy_class_aft.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20051125173233&path-prefix=en

    http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x22/thesearethevoyages016.jpg

    http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x22/thesearethevoyages083.jpg

    http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x22/thesearethevoyages362.jpg

    there is more D shots then NX shots LOL
    victoriasig_zps23c45368.jpg
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    yreodred wrote: »
    And why did the new ship had to look so radical different with almost no connection to the previous one?

    Thats exactly what some of us said, after 20 years of Connie's, Miranda's, and Excel's when TNG first presented the Galaxy. Even taking into account the 80 years gap, the Galaxy is a pretty radical change itself.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    gpgtx wrote: »
    it was decision form paramount to have a "flashy new hot rod" as the enterpise it had nothing to do with how easy or hard the model was to deal with. also braga hated the galaxy class and said if he had to use it again he would destroy it in the first 5 minutes of the movie just to not use it for the remainder

    ironicly he is the one that gave us the challenger (a galaxy) and the final episode of enterpise which was basicly an episode of TNG and took place on the D and had some great exterior shots

    i already strongly disliked braga, but he was also a literal galaxy hatter? thats irredeemable.
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,326 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Got to admit the lack of the andromeda parts on the Gal-X is getting alittle anoying, as i like alot of those part's looks quite abit, and wish to use those on my Gal-X when i use it. I understand that they need to update it for usage on the Gal-x ship like the neck design an tri-pylon design of it. I am hoping the reason they are waiting to update it is that they are going to make a T-6 version.
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