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Content parity: Facts vs. Excuses
karmog
Member Posts: 115 Arc User
There's a lot of propaganda being spread around, when it comes to Klingons. This post is going to present some facts against it to set the record straight.
Excuse:
Facts:
Note: STO is not canon either.
Excuse:
Facts:
STO is a computer gamenot a television show or a feature film.
This is how the game is advertised on the main website:
The above corresponds to the original collector's edition:
Excuse:
Facts:
See "The History Of The Klingon Empire With Cryptic Studios" for details:
Excuse:
Facts:
From the aforementioned post:
Furthermore, you could not start with the KDF at level 1. You had to start with Stafleet and play until level 6 or earn "Blood of the Warrior" accolade, which was already absurd. When PWE took over, the 'unlock' level increased to 25 (with the accolade option removed)even more absurduntil the release of the "Legacy of Romulus".
Excuse:
Facts:
Mostif not allpeople at Star Trek conventions show up for Star Trek, not STO. Furthermore, it's a lot easier and less expensive to make something resembling a Starfleet shirt than a Klingon uniform; not to mention the facial and head features make-up.
Excuse:
Facts:
The time they did have was mostly spent on Starfleet; not managed to maintain content parity.
Excuse:
Facts:
Be happy that STO caters to UFP or its "popularity" propaganda would be dispersed by now.
Excuse:
Facts:
From the Klingon entry on Wikipedia:
Joel Harlow: "The Klingons, I think, more than any other alien race beside the Vulcans, are known worldwide."
A Google search for "Klingon":
A Google search for "Starfleet":
Evidently, the Klingons are less popular in STO solely due the game's failure to properly present the faction.
Excuse:
"Star Trek was never about anything but UFP and Starfleet."
Facts:
- Star Trek: Klingon (directed by Jonathan Frakes)
- Star Trek: The Next Generation - Klingon Honor Guard (licensed by Paramount Pictures; consultants: Michael Okuda, Denise Okuda, Dan Curry)
- Star Trek: Klingon Academy (film script editing: D.C. Fontana; Viacom/Paramount: Harry Lang)
Note: STO is not canon either.
Excuse:
"Star Trek movies or tv shows never focused solely on Klingons."
Facts:
STO is a computer gamenot a television show or a feature film.
This is how the game is advertised on the main website:
In this free-to-play massively multiplayer online game from Cryptic Studios, players can pioneer their own destiny as Captain of a Federation starship. Or they can become a Klingon Warlord and expand the Empire to the far reaches of the galaxy.
The above corresponds to the original collector's edition:
Discover your destiny as captain of a Federation starship or rise to power as a Klingon warlord.
Excuse:
"Klingons were never meant to be more than a 'monster-play' or a PvP faction."
Facts:
See "The History Of The Klingon Empire With Cryptic Studios" for details:
August 10th, 2008 - At Gen Con Jack Emmert says: "Starfleet and Klingon. Yeah. So two factions, full PvE content."
Excuse:
"We can't help it if players treat one faction favorably. More people want to play Starfleet."
Facts:
From the aforementioned post:
February 2nd, 2010 - GAME LAUNCH
- The Klingon Empire has no storyline PvE missions - only some "Empire Defense" space PvE madlibs
- No Joined Trill (that we paid extra for and were told would work KDF side)
- No personal armor visuals
- No kit visuals
- No tricorders
- No ship customization
- No buff pets (like the Federation Tribbles)
- No crafting
- Incomplete TOS uniform, not that it mattered because we never got to see our bridge officers anyway
- Half our bridge officer races are male only
- Computer audio and transporter visuals are Starfleet ones, not KDF
- I'm sure there's some more "no's" that I'm forgetting, but it's not monster play!
Furthermore, you could not start with the KDF at level 1. You had to start with Stafleet and play until level 6 or earn "Blood of the Warrior" accolade, which was already absurd. When PWE took over, the 'unlock' level increased to 25 (with the accolade option removed)even more absurduntil the release of the "Legacy of Romulus".
Excuse:
"There are not enough people cos-playing Klingons at Star Trek conventions."
Facts:
Mostif not allpeople at Star Trek conventions show up for Star Trek, not STO. Furthermore, it's a lot easier and less expensive to make something resembling a Starfleet shirt than a Klingon uniform; not to mention the facial and head features make-up.
Excuse:
"The game was rushed. They didn't have enough time to develop both factions."
Facts:
The time they did have was mostly spent on Starfleet; not managed to maintain content parity.
Excuse:
"Be happy you get to play as Klingons at all."
Facts:
Be happy that STO caters to UFP or its "popularity" propaganda would be dispersed by now.
Excuse:
"Klingons are just not popular. They don't make enough money and this is a business."
Facts:
From the Klingon entry on Wikipedia:
According to Guinness World Records, Klingon is the world's most popular fictional language as measured by number of speakers.
According to the official Star Trek web site, the Klingons' varying appearance was "probably the single most popular topic of conversation among Star Trek fans".
Joel Harlow: "The Klingons, I think, more than any other alien race beside the Vulcans, are known worldwide."
A Google search for "Klingon":
About 12,300,000 results.
A Google search for "Starfleet":
About 1,020,000 results.
Evidently, the Klingons are less popular in STO solely due the game's failure to properly present the faction.
Post edited by karmog on
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Comments
That pretty much sums up what KDF players preached for years. It's really sad that the devs deliberatly decided to go this route and they lack the honor to openly admit it and hide behind sales numbers.
- If STO is to be a multi-faction game, the Klingons are the obvious choice. They have by far the best developed backgound of any Trek alien race, and are one of the most fully-realised fictional cultures anywhere; in my admittedly limited experience only Tolkien's Elves are more detailed.
- The Klingons offer the chance for a radically different style of gameplay to Starfleet, thereby making STO much broader. (I think this logic is why pretty well every serious Trek game - from Star Fleet Battles onwards - has put much greater emphasis on Klingons and Romulans than the actual series ever did).
- In Lore terms, the Empire has often been the Federation's ally in times of strife. The Dominion War is the best example, but we know that the Klingons sent ships to help against the Borg and were present in the alt-future showdown against the Sphere Builders (watch for the Vor'cha in the background...). If you go by the Pocket Books account, the Empire also provided unofficial support for Earth during the Romulan War.
- From a sales perspective, Klingon merchandise and books continues to do well in wider fandom. There is an extra market there.
So what? STO would be a worse game without the Klingon and Romulan factions; much narrower and with much less diversity of character options.
In a nutshell that is 100% correct. The Dev's have caused the state of the game to be what it is and only they have the power to change. I am sure if they took the change to do the right thing it would pay off for them and the community.
Not to mention chances are it might not be around today and even if it was, it wouldn't be doing as well as it is today for the simple fact it would be boring. I certainly wouldn't be playing, nor ever taken out a lifetime membership.
Those things alone killed the Klingon population for nearly 2 years. It's better than it was, a lot better, but the Klinks still get the short end of the stick when it comes to content and fixes.
As I said, it's better now, but I'll always wonder what would have happened if the Klingons had had more love at launch.
Here's the thing though: Who are more players going to identify with, the primary protagonist of the show or the sometimes-protagonist sometimes-antagonist if-they're-even-in-the-episode-at-all? The 'excuse' isn't in what the game was advertised as, but what the majority of players would roll and main. Who the majority of Star Trek fans identify with. Jim Kirk and Spock and Jean-Luc Picard and Ben Sisko and Katharine Janeway are sci-fi legends. There's Worf and Torres, sure, but they were Federation too.
And this has been fixed for, what, well over a year now? And what does this do with people wanting to play Starfleet more?
Given the state the game was at release, I can only imagine how much worse it would have been if they half-assed both sides.
OK, what other fictional languages do you know of off-hand, let alone any that actually have their own dictionary? I poked around and couldn't find a source that said just how many people Guinness counted that actually spoke Klingon. The dictionary has sold 300,000 copies, but the guy who actually created the language says he believes no more than 100 speak it fluently.
Well, yeah, that was the biggest unanswered question this side of Shatner's hair.
'Beside the Vulcans.'
A Google search for "Vulcan":
A Google search for "Human":
A Google search for "James T Kirk":
A Google search for "Spock":
Go to Earth Spacedock. How many non-human and non-vulcans do you see versus how many humans and vulcans. Go to DS9, do the same thing. I'm re-re-rolling my Fed main into a Rigelian since they're about as rare among PCs as a fully-clothed female Orion and I kinda like how she the Boff randomizer turned her out.
Someone else mentioned elsewhere here, that if you're going to choose a starship make sure you get a pretty one. You're going to be staring at it a long time. The same thing goes with your PC. Players naturally gravitate towards aesthetically pleasing races. Its a thing and its a thing pretty much everywhere. Heck, I'm half-convinced that's why they the Blood Elves were introduced to the Horde.
Klingons are not a pretty race. We like them that way, but not everyone does. Not many do. And, in the end, its all about the dolla dolla bill y'all.
See, you need more evidence than this, though. Prove the demand is there. We have Klingon content one through fifty now, Klingons are no longer a PvP primary faction to scare off the PvP wary, so where are the players taking advantage of that?
I'll even go a step further: If the demand was there, why the heck are PWE and Cryptic not doing more to hoover that dollar than, say, the dollars of the Galaxy-class fans? Geko this, Geko that, but the money guys don't give a damn if Geko's passing up free money. Not after the last quarterly report and the layoffs.
The thing is there's a very easy shortcut cryptic could take with the KDF to get some quick sales.
Alot of the disparity at present is in ships available at T6, a holdover effect from the same thing at T5.
thing is the KDF are known to reuse old ship hulls/designs and simply update the internals. Cryptic actually could restat a number of T5 or lower ships with T6 stats and most kdf players wouldn't bat an eyelash at it even without a new skin. fed players apparently care a lot about accurate/pretty skins for their ships, kdf players are more focused on the stats typically, though pretties are nice obviously.
Sort some solid stats, slap it on an older ship model and release it, even just to fill some holes in the t6 lineup, raider/bop and science ship in particular. it may not be a great long term plan, but at least as a short term measure to fill holes it would work and be at a lower overall cost than the standard process of making new skins and matching them to older ones or multiple new skins.
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If there was money to be made, the devs wouldn't hesitate to make content. It seems the only propaganda here is coming from the OP. A Klingon that acts like a Romulan, fighting battles with lies...
Evidently someone (not the original poster as I am in support of the argument) hasn't watched all of the Klingon focused episodes. I have left some out, but these should be considered the icons from which the expanded Star Trek lore is built on.
"Matter of Honor" (TNG) -Riker on the IKS Pagh. One of the few non-Worf Klingon stories.
"Sins of the Father" (TNG) The start of the Klingon Political mega-story arc culminating with the DS9 episode "Tacking into the Wind".
"Redemption" (TNG) Continuation of the Klingon political story.
"Birthright" (TNG) Klingon/Romulan children being introduced into their heritage by Worf's arrival.
"Rightful Heir" (TNG) Exploration into Klingon history, myths, and legends WITHOUT the Federation's propaganda slant that was seen in "The Savage Curtain".
"Firstborn" (TNG) The whole motivation for the K'mtar story in STO.
"House of Quark" (DS9) -Another interesting story that did NOT involve humans. The culture clash between Feringi and Klingons is EPIC!
"Sons and Daughters" (DS9) While it is a Worf story, it almost exclusively takes place on the IKS Rotarran. The secondary arc does involve Dukat and his daughter, however.
"Once more into the Breach" (DS9) -How Klingons (and warrior cultures) deal with long life and death. MacArthur's quote about old warriors fading away comes to mind with this episode.
"Tacking into the Wind" (DS9) Insights into the corruption of politics and how even the Klingons can fall victum to Machiavellianism.
I recommend those who DON'T think there is much in Star Trek about Klingons needs to watch all of these episdoes, preferably in order.
Honestly, I think a true problem we do have is that we really are kinda deficient in the Space Barbie category. I was all set to grab myself a Qib or D7 once Kynda hit 50, then I took another look at what Thomas did with the Negh'tev and said 'now -that's- a Klingon warship.' Aesthetics sells, and re-done T6 skins for the B'rel, K't'inga, Vor'cha, et al will definitely bring in more eyeballs to the KDF side than simply slapping on T6 stats on old models. If we're going to grow, we have to diversify a bit and put on a little shine for interested lookers. We do have the far cooler looking starships than Starfleet - if ya got it, flaunt it!
If it was as simple as 'lol just reuse an old skin and give it a gimmick console nobody will look at and call it a day' it would have been done already, because even if it doesn't sell well, you're assuming no costs are incurred by simply reusing an existing skin. And some people will buy it. So if there are 0 costs then any profit would be good, even a small one, right? Problem is, not only is that not the case (evidently) but it would open themselves up to criticism that they're not putting an effort into designing a klingon ship. EDIT Which to be honest, I consider this a valid complaint.
Bear in mind I'd love to see a T6 Hegh'ta or K'vort, or both, or really ANY T6 BoP. So I'm actually open to the whole reuse old skin in a new package thing. But we haven't really seen it done in the five years this game has been going for, other than Fleet ships. So I dunno. Maybe it's as simple as Geko doesn't like the KDF and that's it. But I tend to assume that if a company doesn't do something for one side of their business, it's because of money more than any other factor.
My character Tsin'xing
What the hell are you FEDDY fav guys afraid of?
If the Dev team were to spend 3 months cleaning up the KDF content that exists NOW.. the KDF experience would be vastly improved.
A more KDF faction isn't going to hurt the PvP game..if anything it might help it... though there isn't much of a PvP game to begine with, so not a big deal there.
Oh well it might take away from game development for the Fed faction..
... I don't know how to put this politely, so I'm just not gonna bother.. From we KDF players..
Eat My Bat'leth.
Pretty obvious to me that there are some folks who might play trek, but just don't get trek. I do with they would keep their bigoted opinion voiced SOME WHERE ELSE.
I mean come on.. bigoted over a fictional race from a science fiction TV series?
What we gonna have the KKK rally's against KDF content next?
Why don't you morons just let us KDF fans gripe ok.
TROLL SOME WHERE ELSE !
I'm not against KDF development, I just don't think the KDF warrants any more development than it gets. For reasons stated earlier and from a business standpoint, it makes little sense to develop the factions equally.
KKK, bigotry... really? That's some hyperbole bro.
Yep, the Bort didn't sell for beans... Because its a crappy ship... its big, its tough.. its slow, its a brick.. and in spite of seeing some very clever players work on it.. no one had managed to create a load out thats battle worthy.. It's a small community.. word got around quick. And it didn't take long.
In the mean time.. the stuff we've been asking for over the last few years we have never gotten..
No Klingon SCI ships.. Gorn SCI ships.. and they are each and every one of them a c-store purchase.
Other sci ships.. Temporal DD..(lock box) Solone DD if you have your original 9 console hang on to it..fleet version is better.. and then there are the three c-store versions.. each with a different extra..
But, they all cost money.
All I gotta say is.. not just "build it and they will come" but Build it right, and they will come..
The Delta recruit event is getting a bunch of never before played KDF people digging into red side content. And lot of them are finding the amount of content rather underwhelming..
Plot holes, content holes.. bigger XP payouts because there are less missions, and many do not tie together well.. Insufficient loot from missions to keep your toon geared as you level...
My KDF Delta hit 50 yesterday.. and I know the Delta quadrant content is full of tough fights, and pretty much tossed him EC and Dilithium from my first delta toon so i could get him geared to some sort of baseline... you don't wanna be hitting level 50 content with Mk IV, V, and VI gear..
the problems with KDF content are across the board.. insufficient ship types with some ship types essentially none existant. Lack of mission content.. issues with story cohesion from mission to mission, and arc to arc.. (ok, riddle me this...why are KDF forces even in cardassian space? is it a treaty obligation left over from the dominion war? do you know, because I sure don't... and in case anyone missed it.. the Cardassian arc storys were all orginally made for Fed players.. they barely hold together for KDF faction...
Money is claimed to be the issue.. I don't belive it. I think thats a lie.. I don't money has a damd thing to do with it.. or resources or a lack there of. I think its a lack of brains, grey matter, that stuff between the ears.
And I think it petty TRIBBLE spite Frankly we KDF players ripped into em but good and made our dissatisfaction well known.. And the studio has been pouting about it ever since... The attitude comes though in spades. We ripped them because they did good stuff, but not nearly nuff of it... and the things we wanted the most.. THEY DID NOT DO.. or to put it bluntly.. they did not listen to their customers and failed to fullfill customer demand for product. The demand is still there, and they still haven't. We player TOLD cryptic in these forums what it would take to get players interested in KDF play.
Priorities:
First, ship diversification. Combat sci ships to give us parity with the feds...KLINGON science and exploration/first contact ships.. multi mission ships..
Second, more mission content and improvement of existing missions including removing some of the missions that just don't fit. And cleaning up the back story and progression.
Third is costumes, accessories.. pretty prettys for the toons them selves.
And get rid of the damd foggy bridges...one damd scene out of star trek the motion picture where they used smoke generators on the set to hide the lack of backround detail in the scene and we've been stuck with it ever since inspite of scenes in Next gen and DS-9 that showed that ship interior KDF side were not filled with fog..
We want to see the faction get fair and equal development by the studio. KDF is not monster play. It's a primary faction of the trek universe.
Old Khemaraa,
The real irony here is that, as you well know, one of the primary tenets of Star Trek is its usage as a mirror to reflect the bleakness of the human condition. The Great Bird of the Galaxy made sure we all saw how preposterous many of our own ideas on how we should live--along with the rest of Earth's citizens--are so drastically in diametric alignment with what we actually put into practice as we keep saying "friend" all the while sneaking around their back with our proverbial knives ready to deal the death-stroke to our fellow man.
And so it is with this very same irony our fellow gamers here in STO who would, in a perfect world, claim to be true to what the science fiction organization euphemistically called "The Federation".
And so it is with a shared understanding along with yourself that I have to agree to what you're saying. And so those "Federation" aligned players we move along through the game with, please remember what your Player Characters are supposed to stand for, in representing you, The Player.
Boldly Going Where No One Has Before can also mean treating your co-players as yourself. As in, Your Neighbor. And so then, "Love Your Neighbor as Yourself" means giving to those around you as much as goodness and you would have given to your own pursuits.
The Greatest Starfleet Regulation to LLAP: Love Your Klingons and Romulans and All Other Local Aliens as You Love Yourself!
Best regards,
T9
Sad But True. HOWERVER...there is seemingly only ONE Genetically Engineered Corporeal Knuckle-headed Organism we have to deal with on THAT thought/concept. When HE is no longer a determining factor in that equation, we'll be so much the better for it. However, HOWEVER, their is always, at least a chance, no matter how small, that, that individual will change HIS erroneous ways.
Yep. I also use Acronyms, right along with Phonics.
Acronymically Speaking, of Course.
IDIC, baby.
Our only hope for more dev focus on KDF-centric content is J.J. Abrahms.
Simmer down, let me explain . . .
In the first JJ film, future Romulans went back in time to destroy Vulcan, home planet of one of the founders of the Federation. Despite this, in "Into Darkness" rogue Starfleet Admiral wants a war with the Klingons.
In the original movie series, Klingons (not Romulans) were the re-occuring antagonists (see 3, 5, & 6). Now, if the JJ series follows suit (as it did with bringing back Khan) the Klingons will be the re-occuring antagonists of the Federation (despite the destruction of Vulcan).
Which leads us to the possibility of Klingons killing Kirk's son (again), which would be following suit from the original series (again feasible because Carol - David's mother - was introduced to us in "Into Darkness") and lead to continuing the Klingon-antagonist approach further into the movie series.
So, as the JJ series progresses, it is likely that the Klingons will get more screen time, therefore re-kindling their popularity with a younger audience, therefore leading to possibly more of a focus from Cryptic devs here in STO, cashing in on the renewed popularity.
Right now, the only things really going on keeping the Trek flag waving are STO and JJ's movie series (both not being entirely canon and both keeping to themselves).
So from a business standpoint (for CBS more so than Cryptic) it makes sense to try and get one to ride off the wake of the wake of what the other is doing, and therefore, the above scenario is not completely out of the question.
IF you are somewhat doubtful, check the image of the guy holding the phaser at the top of these forums and tell me he doesn't look like Kirk's father from the first JJ movie.
My character Tsin'xing