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Iconians are actually the Ori!

ak255ak255 Member Posts: 317 Arc User
Think about it:
  • They use giant gates to move their fleets around.
  • They use other races to do their work for them because those races believe Iconians are their Gods.
  • Their ships have a certain glow to them.
  • The Heralds have giant staffs and are their guardians.
  • The prelude to Season 10 (AKA the end of Season 9) story mission is the beginning of their invasion! Don't tell me that doesn't sound familiar to those that have seen the ending to Season 9 of SG-1!
  • They were preparing to strike our galaxy from a completely different one.

Probably a few other things I missed, but with this evidence, how can they not be!? I guess this means in order to defeat them, we'll have to travel to their galaxy and find some device that convinces the races that serve them that the Iconians are false Gods. :P
Post edited by ak255 on
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  • reynoldsxdreynoldsxd Member Posts: 977 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ak255 wrote: »
    Think about it:
    • They use giant gates to move their fleets around.
    • They use other races to do their work for them because those races believe Iconians are their Gods.
    • Their ships have a certain glow to them.
    • The Heralds have giant staffs and are their guardians.
    • The prelude to Season 10 (AKA the end of Season 9) story mission is the beginning of their invasion! Don't tell me that doesn't sound familiar to those that have seen the ending to Season 9 of SG-1!
    • They were preparing to strike our galaxy from a completely different one.

    Probably a few other things I missed, but with this evidence, how can they not be!? I guess this means in order to defeat them, we'll have to travel to their galaxy and find some device that convinces the races that serve them that the Iconians are false Gods. :P


    Yeah.. no.

    Every alien bad guy in stargate carries stick guns.
    Just fit some special shields to our ships and they glow like a TRIBBLE.
    The iconians have been a part of trek lore ever since the yamato took a hike to the far beyond.
    They are not suddenly introduced as a "oh look! An ascended faction even more callous and evil than the one we have here, you know the one that gave us anubis. And a giant mess in 2 galaxies." out of the blue new enemy.

    (In fact the ori are better than the ascended, because while both are evil, the ori at least would have instantly stomped anubis, replicators and wraith into the ground. Sure, being forever medieval sucks, but is it worse than getting your life sucked by a blue fckfaced person?)

    The iconians use gates because unlike in stargate, we do not have FTL drives that allow convenient travel between galaxies.


    As for the killing: The ori got whomped by merlins package.
    The Priors got brainwashed into unbelieving, which took power from adria and made her weak enough to be dealt with by that unhelpful helpful ascended.


    So, while some themes match, others do not.
    Its common sci fi tropes really.
  • scrooge69scrooge69 Member Posts: 1,108 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    hollowed are the Iconians!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,007 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The iconians are the offspring of the Will Decker/Vger combination.
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Lies!

    Iconians are the Reapers of STO.

    Iconians are the masters
    -They indoctrinate their allies; the heralds, solanae and blue gill creatures are such examples.
    -They have thralls not unlike husks to do their dirty fighting for them, catspaws in agents of chaos like 8472 and maybe the voth and borg without them even knowing about it. they also have the lachi which are the eqivielent to husks as in the lifeform that once was, died and turned into something else, but for all intents and purposes the elachi are alien zombies and ugly ones at that. Shroomies!!!
    -Iconians are intent on wiping out their enemies not unlike the reapers. all for a purpose that is to be understood later.
    -Iconian strength is unknown until it is know and that their strength is far more then anything anyone has ran across bofore, the same with the reapers when the invasion hit home.
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  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,820 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    They may share some similarities but there is about as much as if not more differences as well.

    First off their ships couldn't be any more different...if anything looked like the Ori ships it was the Obelisk Carrier. Their ships were brightly colored where as the Iconian ships are very black.

    Do other races believe the Iconians as gods? I don't know because i haven't played the latest episode yet...but unlike the Ori the Iconians were rebelled against and defeated where as the ancients ran for a very long time. I haven't heard anything about the Voth or Undine worshipping them...even if some races may worship them they manipulate races in many ways, worship is just one...unlike the Ori where they only used worship and devotion...which they needed to keep their power.

    Are they really preparing from another galaxy? I would think bringing the new sphere here and building a power base says they aren't just going to strike from another galaxy...
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The Ori should have never happened in the first place.

    But well, Reapers, Ori, Iconians, they all share some traits, some characteristics and some procedures.
    If we wanted a normal war, we could just have war with the klingons again. But well, its always more glorious to roflstomp a big one.

    I mean (just so you get the picture), TRIBBLE germany roflstomping france, while unexpected, was not as glorious as if switzerland would have roflstomped TRIBBLE germany in 1942 :D

    Or to take it to the bible: David vs. Goliath. And one lucky punch (in SciFi, we get here some big device capable to elimate the enemy, be it merlins weapon or the crucible).
  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    woodwhity wrote: »
    The Ori should have never happened in the first place.
    This. Just this.
    attachment.php?attachmentid=42556&d=1518094222
  • hunteralpha84hunteralpha84 Member Posts: 524 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    flash525 wrote: »
    This. Just this.

    What was wrong with the ori?
  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    What was wrong with the ori?
    What wasn't wrong with the Ori? A group of space faring Faithfuls (who should have had the Science to prove their Gods were a fluke in the first place) in Giant ships with ONE forward beam weapon (yet nobody ever thought to fly behind them). :rolleyes:

    There was nothing wrong with the Goa'uld; the SG1 show should have ended with Season 8 if they ran out of story that much that they needed to create an entirely new enemy, seemingly out of nowhere.

    Maybe, just maybe if they'd have focused on what was good, they could have ended SG1 on Series 8, gave another three series to SGA, and then had a better run with SGU.
    attachment.php?attachmentid=42556&d=1518094222
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    flash525 wrote: »
    What wasn't wrong with the Ori? A group of space faring Faithfuls (who should have had the Science to prove their Gods were a fluke in the first place) in Giant ships with ONE forward beam weapon (yet nobody ever thought to fly behind them). :rolleyes:

    There was nothing wrong with the Goa'uld; the SG1 show should have ended with Season 8 if they ran out of story that much that they needed to create an entirely new enemy, seemingly out of nowhere.

    Maybe, just maybe if they'd have focused on what was good, they could have ended SG1 on Series 8, gave another three series to SGA, and then had a better run with SGU.

    the Ori huh? as i recall they were wiped out by daniel jackson and then completely dismantled by the ark of truth thanks to teal'c and a little luck. an enemy that vulnerable within 2 years of first contact? clearly they are not gods.

    now look at Ba'al, he managed to dodge a bullet on more times then one expects, never a fool even though he is still arrogant and still considered a god by some. now hes just a snake without a human host thanks to the tok'ra, but cruicially hes still very much alive. Now if you want a immortal being, Hail Ba'al!
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
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  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    the Ori huh? as i recall they were wiped out by daniel jackson and then completely dismantled by the ark of truth thanks to teal'c and a little luck. an enemy that vulnerable within 2 years of first contact? clearly they are not gods.
    Yet they were worshiped as such. Regardless, I believe you and I share the opinion that the SG1 show could have done without them.

    I too hope that some day, not too far from now, someone reboots Stargate. I'd love for them to have a proper run with us getting to see multiple Jaffa Armies (and not just the Horus and Serpent Guard). Them helmets rocked!
    attachment.php?attachmentid=42556&d=1518094222
  • bernatkbernatk Member Posts: 1,089 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2015
    flash525 wrote: »
    Yet they were worshiped as such. Regardless, I believe you and I share the opinion that the SG1 show could have done without them.

    I too hope that some day, not too far from now, someone reboots Stargate. I'd love for them to have a proper run with us getting to see multiple Jaffa Armies (and not just the Horus and Serpent Guard). Them helmets rocked!

    A new film is being worked on by Emmerich.
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    flash525 wrote: »
    Yet they were worshiped as such. Regardless, I believe you and I share the opinion that the SG1 show could have done without them.

    I too hope that some day, not too far from now, someone reboots Stargate. I'd love for them to have a proper run with us getting to see multiple Jaffa Armies (and not just the Horus and Serpent Guard). Them helmets rocked!

    it would be criminal to reboot the 8 seasons into something.. horrible. lets not forget key people that made the whole thing excellent to watch, cliff simon, michael shanks, richard anderson, chris judge, peter wingfield, peter williams, carmen argenziano, teryl rothery and of course the late Don Davis. to reboot it and bypass all of them is a slap in the face.
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  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    bernatk wrote: »
    A new film is being worked on by Emmerich.
    He's been rambling on about that for ages, his trilogy likely wont come full circle. Even if it does, it's suppose to follow on from the first film and thus ignores the TV universe anyway.
    it would be criminal to reboot the 8 seasons into something.. horrible. lets not forget key people that made the whole thing excellent to watch, cliff simon, michael shanks, richard anderson, chris judge, peter wingfield, peter williams, carmen argenziano, teryl rothery and of course the late Don Davis. to reboot it and bypass all of them is a slap in the face.
    Reboots do work; the latest Trek films prove that (I actually enjoyed them).
    attachment.php?attachmentid=42556&d=1518094222
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    flash525 wrote: »
    Reboots do work; the latest Trek films prove that (I actually enjoyed them).

    that is only one example regardless if i agree with it or not, that is hardly a trend that the overall reboot thing is posivive or it even works because a few recent reboots were absolute stinkers. you have yet to prove to me reboots worked.

    for the record you will never convince me that the latest trek films were a success to me, they were not in my eyes, number counts dont mean anything to me, nor does profits. what matters to me is the quality delivered = utter garbage.
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  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The reboot is totally BS, same as it was with Star Trek. The only good reboots in the last years where Batman (though the ´bar was set pretty low by its predecessors).

    ST could have just gone further into the future.

    SG still has the Wraith to fully deal with, and the Lucian Alliance (though thats to symmetrical of a war to be interesting). They should simply progress things that were/are good in the first place instead of trying to reboot them.

    There is only one Spock, only one Bones, only one Scotty and only one Kirk, though three of the actors are dead atm.
    Not to mention that any Idea of star trek in the new incarnation is instantly drowned by the next explosion.

    There is also only one O'Neill (with two l), one Teal'C, one Carter (aka Destroyer of suns).

    P.S.: Yes, SG-1 should have ended with season 8. SGA still had stories to tell (Wraith, Pegasus-Asgard. Not to mention the Ida-Asgard shouldnt have been wiped like that, then there was the humanlike "zombies" from the alternate reality (daedalus variations)). SGU wasnt needed in the first place.

    P.P.S.: The Ori had smaller energy weapons around the ship, which in rapid fire could also destroy an Hatak easily. The maingun is just featured more prominently.
  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    that is only one example regardless if i agree with it or not, that is hardly a trend that the overall reboot thing is posivive or it even works because a few recent reboots were absolute stinkers. you have yet to prove to me reboots worked.
    If you're looking for other good reboot examples, then Battlestar Galactica would be another sci-fi added to the list. The DC films (Batman/Man of Steel); the Hulk film (Ed Norton's film surpassed Eric Bana's).
    for the record you will never convince me that the latest trek films were a success to me, they were not in my eyes, number counts dont mean anything to me, nor does profits. what matters to me is the quality delivered = utter garbage.
    This being the case, nothing I say will matter. You have your views, I have mine.

    The new Trek films worked for me; they provided the action, the humour (a fair amount of which was lacked before) and the adventure. Would I have done things differently? Probably, yeah, but ultimately it worked and satisfied. If they'd followed continuity and theme, it wouldn't have had such a wide audience.
    attachment.php?attachmentid=42556&d=1518094222
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,102 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Next you'll be saying STO is actually: "Galaxy Quest Online" :eek::D:P;)
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  • reynoldsxdreynoldsxd Member Posts: 977 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Next you'll be saying STO is actually: "Galaxy Quest Online" :eek::D:P;)

    GQ was clever.... STO... erm....
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    flash525 wrote: »
    What wasn't wrong with the Ori? A group of space faring Faithfuls (who should have had the Science to prove their Gods were a fluke in the first place) in Giant ships with ONE forward beam weapon (yet nobody ever thought to fly behind them). :rolleyes:

    There was nothing wrong with the Goa'uld; the SG1 show should have ended with Season 8 if they ran out of story that much that they needed to create an entirely new enemy, seemingly out of nowhere.

    Maybe, just maybe if they'd have focused on what was good, they could have ended SG1 on Series 8, gave another three series to SGA, and then had a better run with SGU.

    Sigh. At least get your facts straight before going and bashing stuff.

    The followers of the Ori had their scientific knowledge spoonfed to them by the Ori, and most of that technology was either supervised or outright controlled by the Priors. The Priors, on the other hand (barring Gerak and Jackson - though it has been implied that some brainwashing took place when a Prior was created, the former was clearly capable of defying it, and the latter was defended by Merlin.), had no reason to believe the godhood of the Ori needed proving, nor were they capable of doing so. (For proof of this, I submit the ending of The Fourth Horseman, where Gerak bursts into flames upon betraying the Ori.)

    Ori motherships, as has been pointed out by another poster, had been demonstrated firing secondary pulse cannons towards ships attempting to hide from the main weapon, most notably (if not solely) in the Battle of P3Y-229. (SG-1: Camelot - at some point, one Ha'tak is completely destroyed by said pulse cannons, and I believe the O'Neill participating in the battle takes several hits as well.)

    That being said...

    I agree SG-1 could have comfortably ended after season 8 (come on, no O'Neill?! :mad:), and SGA definitely shouldn't have finished with season 5. (By the way, your post implies that SGA ended because SG-1 was extended. It, in fact, ended because somebody thought SGU was a better idea. Had the latter not fallen out of the sky with the grace of a brick, there would have been a third SG-1 movie and at least one SGA movie.)

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  • ddesjardinsddesjardins Member Posts: 3,056 Media Corps
    edited March 2015
    reynoldsxd wrote: »
    Yeah.. no.
    Every alien bad guy in stargate carries stick guns.

    So much wrong in one sentence.
  • orion0029orion0029 Member Posts: 1,122 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2015
    ak255 wrote: »
    Think about it:
    • They use giant gates to move their fleets around.
    • They use other races to do their work for them because those races believe Iconians are their Gods.
    • Their ships have a certain glow to them.
    • The Heralds have giant staffs and are their guardians.
    • The prelude to Season 10 (AKA the end of Season 9) story mission is the beginning of their invasion! Don't tell me that doesn't sound familiar to those that have seen the ending to Season 9 of SG-1!
    • They were preparing to strike our galaxy from a completely different one.

    Probably a few other things I missed, but with this evidence, how can they not be!? I guess this means in order to defeat them, we'll have to travel to their galaxy and find some device that convinces the races that serve them that the Iconians are false Gods. :P

    LOL, that's epic, I didn't see that.

    Perhaps we should all put some points into space flanking? :P (Hit those Ori beasties in the aft sections, away from their big honkin' space guns, hehe)
  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    dalolorn wrote: »
    Sigh. At least get your facts straight before going and bashing stuff.

    The followers of the Ori had their scientific knowledge spoonfed to them by the Ori, and most of that technology was either supervised or outright controlled by the Priors. The Priors, on the other hand (barring Gerak and Jackson - though it has been implied that some brainwashing took place when a Prior was created, the former was clearly capable of defying it, and the latter was defended by Merlin.), had no reason to believe the godhood of the Ori needed proving, nor were they capable of doing so. (For proof of this, I submit the ending of The Fourth Horseman, where Gerak bursts into flames upon betraying the Ori.)
    If the Ori were as powerful as they were suppose to be, they'd have wiped out any Milkey Way Invaders the second they entered Ori Space.

    dalolorn wrote: »
    I agree SG-1 could have comfortably ended after season 8 (come on, no O'Neill?! :mad:), and SGA definitely shouldn't have finished with season 5. By the way, your post implies that SGA ended because SG-1 was extended. It, in fact, ended because somebody thought SGU was a better idea. Had the latter not fallen out of the sky with the grace of a brick, there would have been a third SG-1 movie and at least one SGA movie.)
    That was not my intention to imply that. I know SGA was cancelled in favour of SGU, and a lot of fans benched SGU in anger. Proof of that is in the epic fail that was SGA S5 final. SGU was too slow to start too, and by the time it got good, it had already lost a significant number of viewers.
    attachment.php?attachmentid=42556&d=1518094222
  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Next you'll be saying STO is actually: "Galaxy Quest Online" :eek::D:P;)

    By the suns of Worvan I would play the heck out of that game.
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    flash525 wrote: »
    If the Ori were as powerful as they were suppose to be, they'd have wiped out any Milkey Way Invaders the second they entered Ori Space.

    Hardly. The first encounter with the Ori took place at a point where it was A: not an invasion, and B: still something they needed to learn a lot about before fully combatting it.

    The second trip into the Ori galaxy was when Vala was impregnated by an Ori; again, not an invasion, and not something they wanted to fight.

    The third trip was after the Ori themselves had been destroyed; putting Adria's typically villainous overconfidence aside, ascended beings are not omnipresent, and it was suggested that she was being distracted somewhat by Morgan Le Fay. (She certainly had been during her discussion with Vala.)

    That was not my intention to imply that. I know SGA was cancelled in favour of SGU, and a lot of fans benched SGU in anger. Proof of that is in the epic fail that was SGA S5 final. SGU was too slow to start too, and by the time it got good, it had already lost a significant number of viewers.

    Eh, I will admit I was among the 'lot of fans', except I didn't do it solely out of spite for having lost a good series - SGU really was terrible (judging from your comment that the BSG reboot was good, I'd say we would disagree as to why) in the early episodes, and I think it only started improving in the last ones.

    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    dalolorn wrote: »
    Hardly. The first encounter with the Ori took place at a point where it was A: not an invasion, and B: still something they needed to learn a lot about before fully combatting it.

    The second trip into the Ori galaxy was when Vala was impregnated by an Ori; again, not an invasion, and not something they wanted to fight.

    The third trip was after the Ori themselves had been destroyed; putting Adria's typically villainous overconfidence aside, ascended beings are not omnipresent, and it was suggested that she was being distracted somewhat by Morgan Le Fay. (She certainly had been during her discussion with Vala.)
    My point being, that if these Gods were as powerful as they claim to be, then they'd have been able to stop their annihilation.

    dalolorn wrote: »
    Eh, I will admit I was among the 'lot of fans', except I didn't do it solely out of spite for having lost a good series - SGU really was terrible (judging from your comment that the BSG reboot was good, I'd say we would disagree as to why) in the early episodes, and I think it only started improving in the last ones.
    I would agree with you that the early SGU episodes took a good time to get going, their pace was slow and focused too much on character development. It really did pick up though toward the end, and then into series two.
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  • liniisanliniisan Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ugh can we not talk about stargate like we're here for star trek i don't like them intermingling
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    flash525 wrote: »
    My point being, that if these Gods were as powerful as they claim to be, then they'd have been able to stop their annihilation.

    While true, their power is limited to where they are. Maybe they can also use proxies (or probes) that interwine with themselves (basically something like kagebunshin, not technology). That is something we know, but not the Origalaxy-inhabitants.
    If they arent near the gate when it was activated, it might be reasonable that they werent able to destroy it before being destroyed, and if it used the hyperspace (similar to how the attero-device instantly turned the pegasus-galaxy into one giant resonater for gates and wraith-hyperdrives, it is perfectly reasonable that they were wiped out.

    Not to mention, they share some characteristics with the ancient: They are arrogant. Not to mention, why should they monitor the gate? As far as they know (they are prohibited to enter milky way territory) the milky way inhabitants cant use the supergate. And even if, their forces would be far superior. The only one knowing how to operate their crucible is a loyal prior. The ship activating the gate could be on a routine supply run.
    Not to mention that such mundane afairs hardly require the presens of "god". Similar to the ancients who totally ignore our domain, except if one of them mingles with it.

    And as someone mentioned, they are neither omnipresent nor omnipotent. But boy, if one of them stood in the solarsystem and the ancient were looking away, I guess earth would look totally different. The only thing that hindered them from simply wiping any power from the milky way were the ancients.
    Though after ascending the ancients should have sorted out the mess they made in the pegasus galaxy, namely the wraith. And maybe the asurans -they could have at least checked in after a few thousand years.

    liniisan wrote: »
    ugh can we not talk about stargate like we're here for star trek i don't like them intermingling

    With Iconian gates connecting to each other more oftenly than not they intermingling already, dont you think?
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    flash525 wrote: »
    My point being, that if these Gods were as powerful as they claim to be, then they'd have been able to stop their annihilation.
    Well... the weapon used to wipe out the Ori was designed by one of the Ancients. Sure, it was built by the Tau'ri, but to the original specs.
    I would agree with you that the early SGU episodes took a good time to get going, their pace was slow and focused too much on character development. It really did pick up though toward the end, and then into series two.
    It had quite a few dumb episodes. Like the one where they have to fix the air scrubbers.... And the weird life form that ate water....

    It had some really cool concepts though. The way they had the gates setup so that you needed to leap-frog from one gate to the next was actually pretty cool. Also it gave them an out in cases where a crewman got "stranded". If they were fast enough they could get ahead of Destiny and gate back.
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