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Advanced PVE Queue Changes

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    sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    My what? Is there anything you don't just make up as you go along? Hell, your 75% number is a bigger pile of TRIBBLE than the thing I highlighted. Yes, people long before DR headed off to channels...not just the DPS channels, but other channels that exist out there as well, whether running with their fleets, KDF channels, Rom channels, Public Elite, Star Trek Battles, and the list goes on and on...to get away from folks like you. The number of folks even hitting up pugs has increased because folks have adapted. ISA pops a Hell of a lot faster than ISE did as does CCA compared to CCE.

    It's like folks last played the game the first couple of weeks of DR and that's their reality...rather than what's actually going on.

    ISA does not go faster than ISE. ISE had always 60+ people and popped instantly. Now it has maybe 10 and often takes minutes to go. CCA does not go as fast as CCE which also popped instantly. This one is difficult to compare as it has been in near permanent event status and is the easiest mission so all flock to it - and it still is less populated.

    People like me? Who pug exclusively and only do missions where they can solo all required objectives? Yeah, that's something to avoid. Oh sorry, 'folks' like me. No, folks need not avoid folks like me. Is that folksy enough? Have you kissed your autographed picture of dps channel leader today?
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ISA does not go faster than ISE. ISE had always 60+ people and popped instantly. Now it has maybe 10 and often takes minutes to go. CCA does not go as fast as CCE which also popped instantly. This one is difficult to compare as it has been in near permanent event status and is the easiest mission so all flock to it - and it still is less populated.

    People like me? Who pug exclusively and only do missions where they can solo all required objectives? Yeah, that's something to avoid. Oh sorry, 'folks' like me. No, folks need not avoid folks like me. Is that folksy enough? Have you kissed your autographed picture of dps channel leader today?

    I haven't seen either ISA or CCA take more than 30-45 seconds for a pop in forever. Just enough time for me to get the headset on and ready to go. And all I do is pug exclusively...but unlike you, I guess I'm not a complete failgasm waiting to happen.
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    sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I haven't seen either ISA or CCA take more than 30-45 seconds for a pop in forever. Just enough time for me to get the headset on and ready to go. And all I do is pug exclusively...but unlike you, I guess I'm not a complete failgasm waiting to happen.

    No failgasm here my folksy friend. Care for some pvp? I'll take you on anywhere anytime.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    No failgasm here my folksy friend. Care for some pvp? I'll take you on anywhere anytime.

    I think that answers the question I just asked in the other thread. :rolleyes:
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    sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    hmm, I don't know what question this is? I'll check in for a little while here in case you want to test out my failgasm for yourself. Just let me know.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

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    whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    An example. I used to have scripted saved in word that I copied and pasted in the beginning of Infected Advance/Elites teamchats saying not to blow the generators untill the cubes and oher generators were close to popping, just in case someone was new to it. What happened half of the time? Someone rushes the area and alpha strikes a gen, blowing it well before other people have whittled down the other gens. I wasnt nasty, rude or negative either.

    With all the assets out there, including fleet membership, I dont see how some of those optionals get failed at such a high rate, unless a person is unwilling to learn/work as a team member or they are griefing.

    I really wish there was a way to put the trolls on ignore and have the pug matcing system have a measure to not match up players that are in an ignore situation. Its one thing to be green, another to get pleasure from greifing others.
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    whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    takfel wrote: »
    Just make sure you prevent players from entering Azure Nebula with a shuttle to cheat the system. I can not recall on both hands how many times someone used a shuttle to "sneak" by the Tholians and remove the tractor beams...

    I frequently sneak by the Tholians in an Excelsior and remove the tractor beams, I believe that was a built in feature.
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    spookpwaspookpwa Member Posts: 315 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I was really hoping that it would help to pep up the queues a little bit but, in game, it's as empty as ever.

    The reason it is empty now is probably the bugs that was not fixed before release. :rolleyes:
    You can only do so many runs on it with no ships showing or lagging so much you hardly can attack before you decide to wait for the fix.
    Double_e23652_217093.jpg

    A test server is supposed to be used to properly test patches before patching anything....
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    spookpwaspookpwa Member Posts: 315 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    No failgasm here my folksy friend. Care for some pvp? I'll take you on anywhere anytime.

    Snap!

    From his reply I think you so owned him. ;)
    Double_e23652_217093.jpg

    A test server is supposed to be used to properly test patches before patching anything....
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    spookpwaspookpwa Member Posts: 315 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    My what? Is there anything you don't just make up as you go along? Hell, your 75% number is a bigger pile of TRIBBLE than the thing I highlighted. Yes, people long before DR headed off to channels...not just the DPS channels, but other channels that exist out there as well, whether running with their fleets, KDF channels, Rom channels, Public Elite, Star Trek Battles, and the list goes on and on...to get away from folks like you. The number of folks even hitting up pugs has increased because folks have adapted. ISA pops a Hell of a lot faster than ISE did as does CCA compared to CCE.

    It's like folks last played the game the first couple of weeks of DR and that's their reality...rather than what's actually going on.

    And in what way is your saying so much more true?

    I can see how it is in the queues and his version fits the reality I see better then your version. :rolleyes:
    Double_e23652_217093.jpg

    A test server is supposed to be used to properly test patches before patching anything....
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    spookpwa wrote: »
    Snap!

    From his reply I think you so owned him. ;)

    Yep, him breaking out the PvP thing like that definitely showed where he might have been feeling owned.
    spookpwa wrote: »
    And in what way is your saying so much more true?

    I can see how it is in the queues and his version fits the reality I see better then your version. :rolleyes:

    So wait, a member of the fail brigade agrees with the member of the fail brigade and it's supposed to mean something?

    Offer some feedback in this thread, yeah?

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1412511

    Oh wait, that would be constructive - trying to find out if something is going on. From your posts, that would be too much effort...carry on with your tears instead - no effort there, they flow so freely. :rolleyes:
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    sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Once again, I'm still waiting tough guy. Anytime you manage to grow anything.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Once again, I'm still waiting tough guy. Anytime you manage to grow anything.

    Are you really doing the 12 year old internet tough guy thing here? Is that your fall back position from having no argument?
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    sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Are you really doing the 12 year old internet tough guy thing here? Is that your fall back position from having no argument?

    I have made my argument countless times on this forum and will do so no longer as the idea of a nuanced point of view is lost in the void here. Imagine someone argueing for the average player - they must be failtastic! Why would anyone do anything but advance their own selfish pov?? Unthinkable! And I'm certain you won't understand that either.

    I'm truly and completely done with this casual versus elite argument. I put in my 6 months. It's time to retire. You go on worshiping your dps heroes. I'll go on hoping Cryptic makes the game accessible for thousands - so that we can still be playing it a long time from now. I will not darken these arguments any longer. It is simply a complete waste of my time.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

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    gt500dotorggt500dotorg Member Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Isn't it wonderful that this has turned into nothing more than a pissing contest? Some software companies would put an end to this sort of argument on their forums very quickly, but it seems that PWE lost control of their forums a long time ago...
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Isn't it wonderful that this has turned into nothing more than a pissing contest? Some software companies would put an end to this sort of argument on their forums very quickly, but it seems that PWE lost control of their forums a long time ago...

    It's the weekend...unfortunately moderation tends to be light unless folks spam the Hell out of askray or bluegeek over something. Hell, even during the week, imho, there's more going on than just two volunteer mods could be expected to handle with the countless number of posts going on...but yeah, the weekend - meh - it tends to be worse. :(
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    nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,564 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    This seems a step in the right direction. Here's hoping.
    Green people don't have to be.... little.
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    spockout1spockout1 Member Posts: 314 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Is there an official feedback thread for the Re-tuned Advanced Queue (Azure Nebula Rescue)?
    "After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true. Except for a T5 Connie. That would be f*%#ing awesome." - Mr. Spock
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    chipg7chipg7 Member Posts: 1,577 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I really wish there was a way to put the trolls on ignore and have the pug matcing system have a measure to not match up players that are in an ignore situation. Its one thing to be green, another to get pleasure from greifing others.

    I think they fixed that in a patch a while back? Or at least they tried to - it may not have worked 100%.
    ISA does not go faster than ISE. ISE had always 60+ people and popped instantly. Now it has maybe 10 and often takes minutes to go. CCA does not go as fast as CCE which also popped instantly. This one is difficult to compare as it has been in near permanent event status and is the easiest mission so all flock to it - and it still is less populated.

    There are less players in the public queues for sure. I'd wager that it's for a few reasons. Likely all the story content that's been added for DR and onwards - there are several threads throughout the forums of players talking about how long it's taking them to get from 50-60. Also, until the recent rewards redistribution, a lot of players were grinding their XP in patrols - from my experience, the pugs seem to have picked up a bit since then.

    I'm in the DPS channel as well, although I'm a low guy so I'm in 10K. But I'd say a lot more players are in fact using channels, fleets, friends, etc. Which does make it more fun, but can do some damage to pure pugging. Honestly though, I pug with a fleetmate or two more often than not. Whatever we queue for, it pops fairly quick - and that's Advanced and Normal, if we're running with a few low toons.
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ANRA...old: RNG

    A group moving from ANRN to ANRA might find themselves facing an Advanced challenge. Might be an Elite challenge. Might be something even easier than Normal offered. Because of the RNG. With the four initial spawns, the level of challenge can vary wildly. This is a problem and should have been adjusted to provide a static increase in challenge when moving from Normal to Advanced. For that matter, ANRN should have had a static initial Optional Objective.

    ANRA...new: RNG

    The challenge is again not static and varies from group to group for both the first and second Objectives. It even adds an additional RNG failed Optional element in either not enough ships spawning or not enough ships of value spawning to complete the Objectives.

    Both the old and new ANRA suffer from Russian Roulette and Players vs. RNG. So whether it was the old ANRA or the new ANRA, the failed Mandatory Objective or failed Optional Objectives can completely be out of the player's control. The change doesn't change that. It does not address that issue.

    Suggestion: Set the initial spawns for ANRA instead of having them randomly generated to provide a consistent increase in challenge when moving from Normal to Advanced.
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    spookpwaspookpwa Member Posts: 315 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    So wait, a member of the fail brigade agrees with the member of the fail brigade and it's supposed to mean something?

    Offer some feedback in this thread, yeah?

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1412511

    Oh wait, that would be constructive - trying to find out if something is going on. From your posts, that would be too much effort...carry on with your tears instead - no effort there, they flow so freely. :rolleyes:

    Oh we are being constructive alright, but I fail to see how your posts are.

    You seams to be only for keep things in failed state, and if Cryptic now finally starts to fix it it is the end of the world. And if anyone disagree with you they are liars (from link). :rolleyes:
    Double_e23652_217093.jpg

    A test server is supposed to be used to properly test patches before patching anything....
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    capitaopaivacapitaopaiva Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    this game is garbage , these newcomers do not have any idea of the difficulty of the STF , and consequently hinder you. should have a level limit for these new players . Barring their entry into advanced and elite levels .:mad::mad::mad:
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    chaosgod777chaosgod777 Member Posts: 237 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    this game is garbage , these newcomers do not have any idea of the difficulty of the STF , and consequently hinder you. should have a level limit for these new players . Barring their entry into advanced and elite levels .:mad::mad::mad:

    Well not so much for advanced, but for elite you have to be lvl 60 and by then your "Expected" to know what to do and how to play your character effectively. I agree with you though, advanced needs some kind of gating. There is one reason I play advanced anything as opposed to elite, I'm not level 60 yet, and what I see in those advanced is 90% of the time pitiful. Half the advanced I go into fail because the rest of the team A)doesn't know what to do, B) Cant hold their own at all, C) I'm the only one doing any kind of DPS (I check BTW, i'm not just stroking my own ego here), or D) All of the above. 10% of the time I play advanced mode's I get LUCKY and have one or two others who are like me, but then we have to carry the other two.

    DCUO gates their content to specific CR (Combat Rating) that should tell if your ready for that kind of content or not. I fully support that Advanced and Elite Specifically should have some form of CR rating. There is a tough fight and adapting then there is fighting Insanely. The definition of insanity: To do an action over and over and expect a different result.

    @Cryptic: A good portion of this game is group content by PUGs, Not everyone can find a premade group. With that in mind can you please either make content that is pug friendly, take away the fail ability except on elite, or implement some form of a combat rating system that matches players so they have a chance. Hell a Combat training for specific carrears would go a long way for new players.
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    chipg7chipg7 Member Posts: 1,577 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Well not so much for advanced, but for elite you have to be lvl 60 and by then your "Expected" to know what to do and how to play your character effectively. I agree with you though, advanced needs some kind of gating. There is one reason I play advanced anything as opposed to elite, I'm not level 60 yet, and what I see in those advanced is 90% of the time pitiful. Half the advanced I go into fail because the rest of the team A)doesn't know what to do, B) Cant hold their own at all, C) I'm the only one doing any kind of DPS (I check BTW, i'm not just stroking my own ego here), or D) All of the above. 10% of the time I play advanced mode's I get LUCKY and have one or two others who are like me, but then we have to carry the other two.

    DCUO gates their content to specific CR (Combat Rating) that should tell if your ready for that kind of content or not. I fully support that Advanced and Elite Specifically should have some form of CR rating. There is a tough fight and adapting then there is fighting Insanely. The definition of insanity: To do an action over and over and expect a different result.

    @Cryptic: A good portion of this game is group content by PUGs, Not everyone can find a premade group. With that in mind can you please either make content that is pug friendly, take away the fail ability except on elite, or implement some form of a combat rating system that matches players so they have a chance. Hell a Combat training for specific carrears would go a long way for new players.

    I can tell you that Elite isn't much different. Just getting to lvl60 means as little as getting to lvl50, when it comes to ability in queued content. You're still going to find players who have no business being there - reasons A through D apply across the board.

    I'm really glad that Cryptic is doing some work on adjusting the queues, but it really comes down to the players. I pug, and I always will pug. Sometimes there aren't a lot of people in my fleet on, and sometimes I just don't feel like joining / waiting for a DPS channel run. So I'm certainly not against pugs - I like it.

    What I don't like is players who just aren't ready for the next difficulty level decide that it's ok to play at that level. There can be matchmaking, there can be level limits, there can be all sorts of bars - but it comes down to the players. There are far too many players who are ruining the pugging scene.

    And for sure, not everyone checks their DPS. I get that - it's ok that not everyone wants to run CLR, and it'd be silly if there was an absolute requirement for everyone to run it. But, raw DPS numbers aside, players can very easily see their own success or failure. If you're camped at a single sphere in ISA and can barely break through the shields, if you die three times trying to rescue a single value-1 T'liss in ANRA, if you can't successfully destroy two probes in KSA before they enter the gate - these are all clear, non-DPS checking reasons to not play in Advanced content. But time and time again, I see this when I pug.

    Too many players are unwilling to accept that no, their toon just isn't good enough to play at that level yet.
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    nadiezjanadiezja Member Posts: 629 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    chipg7 wrote: »
    I can tell you that Elite isn't much different. You're still going to find players who have no business being there - reasons A through D apply across the board.

    I'm really glad that Cryptic is doing some work on adjusting the queues, but it really comes down to the players. I pug, and I always will pug. Sometimes there aren't a lot of people in my fleet on, and sometimes I just don't feel like joining / waiting for a DPS channel run. So I'm certainly not against pugs - I like it.

    What I don't like is players who just aren't ready for the next difficulty level decide that it's ok to play at that level. There can be matchmaking, there can be level limits, there can be all sorts of bars - but it comes down to the players. There are far too many players who are ruining the pugging scene.

    And for sure, not everyone checks their DPS. I get that - it's ok that not everyone wants to run CLR, and it'd be silly if there was an absolute requirement for everyone to run it. But, raw DPS numbers aside, players can very easily see their own success or failure. If you're camped at a single sphere in ISA and can barely break through the shields, if you die three times trying to rescue a single value-1 T'liss in ANRA, if you can't successfully destroy two probes in KSA before they enter the gate - these are all clear, non-DPS checking reasons to not play in Advanced content. But time and time again, I see this when I pug.

    Too many players are unwilling to accept that no, their toon just isn't good enough to play at that level yet.

    What I have to ask - and I will remind you that (1) The game itself offers neither advice on what "ready" looks like nor guidance to find that help, and (2) due to the fact that ESD is kind of an awful place a lot of people play without zone chat turned on - is this. How are people supposed to know if their characters are ready? How are they supposed to know how to make their characters ready?
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    spookpwaspookpwa Member Posts: 315 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    this game is garbage , these newcomers do not have any idea of the difficulty of the STF , and consequently hinder you. should have a level limit for these new players . Barring their entry into advanced and elite levels .:mad::mad::mad:

    There is a level limit but the system as was introduced in DR fails mission before those new players get to learn. With current change the players will be able to see progress and learn from it.

    So hopefully we will be able to get more tactical players as this change hopefully go through with all queues after they find the bugs. ;)
    Double_e23652_217093.jpg

    A test server is supposed to be used to properly test patches before patching anything....
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    chipg7chipg7 Member Posts: 1,577 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    nadiezja wrote: »
    What I have to ask - and I will remind you that (1) The game itself offers neither advice on what "ready" looks like nor guidance to find that help, and (2) due to the fact that ESD is kind of an awful place a lot of people play without zone chat turned on - is this. How are people supposed to know if their characters are ready? How are they supposed to know how to make their characters ready?

    Fleet is #1, for sure. That's how I learned a lot about proper builds. Get with a fleet that's talkative and supportive, and you're good to go.

    But there are a lot of other places to go too. The Academy or faction-based 'shipyard' areas right here on the forums, Reddit, quick YouTube searches, even looking up the basics of in-game mechanics on the STO Wiki. There are plenty of places to look for information.
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    geminisierrageminisierra Member Posts: 180 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    To the people whining, ******** and moaning about players in the queues not knowing what to do... how about you go write up a current walkthrough on the expected methodology of running a queue.

    There was/is a "rule" that said something to the affect of "take all the transformers to 10%" before popping them and concentrate on the main transformer... (wording/names etc probably wrong there).... taking those things to 10% is all well and good, but if there are two or three shooting up the same one... it can come and go in a blink and then some... especially if there is any lag...

    there are others... khitomer comes to mind... I've seen people ******** about crossing trigger points... well... hello, they're not marked on the ground "trigger point - don't cross until ready" and there's a game plan in destroying those shielded area (can't remember the name while at work...) but I know I've seen at least two versions.... go left first top to bottom, go right first bottom to top... someone go to the central area while the rest do the other things... which is right?

    Ask in team chat... sure (/sarcasm)... first thing said (if anything) is usually, "newb" or something worse... and people wonder why the queues are empty...

    I'll run any queue (if it runs because most of the time I see them empty) any time... whether I've done it before... because I try to learn... but if there's nothing that tells me how it's supposed to work... then it's trial and error... and some queues (of the same name just different levels) are different enough that what works in one doesn't in the next.

    On top of that... why put the special needed things like the Ancient Power Cells or the Borg Neural Processor in the high level queues?? That is stupid. We need the damned thing for Rep items, but they are SO hard to get, that it's nearly impossible to get those items. Sure... it's a grind fest, but if the grind fest is only an advanced or elite queue... and the "options" are really manadatory... then yeah... more than likely will never get anything.

    more than likely... will never run a queue because the elitists out there think they have the only right to run the queues... oh frell that... I'll just run them and sit there and let them do all the work... seems like they'd prefer that...
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    spookpwa wrote: »
    Oh we are being constructive alright, but I fail to see how your posts are.

    You seams to be only for keep things in failed state, and if Cryptic now finally starts to fix it it is the end of the world. And if anyone disagree with you they are liars (from link). :rolleyes:

    Okay, precious, if that makes you feel better.
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