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Accelerated obsolescence
animusredwing
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
So there has always been some form of obsolescence in this game, Tier 3/4 ships were all obsolete with Tier 5 etc. But at least they had consoles you would get to have some value once you got to the tier 5 version. With tier 5 you could upgrade your ships into fleet ships and then Tier 5U, so even then you felt you had value as you received a discount on upgrading the ship to a fleet version by owning the C store version.
Lately things have gotten completely out of control:
Tier 5U
Tier 6 10 stations
Tier 6 Lockbox 11 stations
Hybrid Bridge stations (new Pilot stations)
Intelligence Bridge Stations
Commander Bridge Stations
All of these new ships are behind a pay wall, make all previous ships obsolete and are coming out so fast that it makes me feel like there is no point to buy a command ship etc, since a new more UBER ship will be out in a few months. Tier 5U was supposed to have 1 more console than Tier 6 to make them somewhat competitive; already Tier 6 came out with 10 consoles and lockbox tier 6 and "tier 6 fleet ships" (coming soon) are at 11 consoles.
In the past I could see the value in getting a lockbox ship, because Cryptic would keep you happy with free upgrades of the lockbox ships, maintaining their value for you. So even if you spent 200$ for the ship you would have some long term enjoyment knowing that the ship would be kept up to par with game progression. That whole idea was thrown out the window with the Tier 6 jem hadar strike ship. I know some players who spent up to 1000$ in order to acquire thes original Jem hadar ship only to be completely obsoleted with the new Jem fighter. All of this causes buyers remorse and buyers to lose confidence in their purchase. I know that I will definitly not be spending any real money on STO since a 100$ pack of ships can be rendered useless in a months time (Intel -> Command -> Hybrid -> ???? next month).
How does everyone feel about this? it seems like Cryptic is getting desperate with revenue as the frequency of cash grabs (lockboxes), special promotions and new uber ships is accelerating rapidly since Delta rising.
Lately things have gotten completely out of control:
Tier 5U
Tier 6 10 stations
Tier 6 Lockbox 11 stations
Hybrid Bridge stations (new Pilot stations)
Intelligence Bridge Stations
Commander Bridge Stations
All of these new ships are behind a pay wall, make all previous ships obsolete and are coming out so fast that it makes me feel like there is no point to buy a command ship etc, since a new more UBER ship will be out in a few months. Tier 5U was supposed to have 1 more console than Tier 6 to make them somewhat competitive; already Tier 6 came out with 10 consoles and lockbox tier 6 and "tier 6 fleet ships" (coming soon) are at 11 consoles.
In the past I could see the value in getting a lockbox ship, because Cryptic would keep you happy with free upgrades of the lockbox ships, maintaining their value for you. So even if you spent 200$ for the ship you would have some long term enjoyment knowing that the ship would be kept up to par with game progression. That whole idea was thrown out the window with the Tier 6 jem hadar strike ship. I know some players who spent up to 1000$ in order to acquire thes original Jem hadar ship only to be completely obsoleted with the new Jem fighter. All of this causes buyers remorse and buyers to lose confidence in their purchase. I know that I will definitly not be spending any real money on STO since a 100$ pack of ships can be rendered useless in a months time (Intel -> Command -> Hybrid -> ???? next month).
How does everyone feel about this? it seems like Cryptic is getting desperate with revenue as the frequency of cash grabs (lockboxes), special promotions and new uber ships is accelerating rapidly since Delta rising.
REDWING (fed), DOQ TEL SUVWI'S (kdf)
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Post edited by animusredwing on
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And it is not as though we did not know T6 ships were coming. DStahl told us a level cap increase to 60 and T6 ships were coming after Season 9 years ago. There were no surprises, except for those with short memories who did not remember him saying it.
As far as true obsolescence, pre DR my Fleet Sovereign was doing 15,000 DPS. I have not had any reason to use a T6 ship, as 15k is more then enough to blow through Advanced STFs and I have no reason to do Elite STFs. If you are jumping through hoops because you want the "best" that is on you. The current PvE game does not require you have the best - especially now that it seems they are removing optionals.
If you feel that the release of a new ship renders you unable to enjoy your old ships, it is quite frankly not Cryptic's fault. In fact, if your perception of the game has become so toxic that even the release of new content, sans nerfs to Dilithium/SP-gain, becomes a good enough reason for you to complain on the forums, it might be a good idea for you to take a break from the game until you actually want to play it again. At this point in time, you are very likely to make financial decisions and then blame somebody else for it because you actually don't enjoy the game anymore but still have trouble letting it go.
I recommend SWTOR. It's almost completely different from STO in both bad and good ways. It works surprisingly well as a single-player RPG and the voice acting is beyond top-notch. Its F2P model isn't quite as good as STO's, though.
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Pretty sure Dstahl never said anything about T6 Ships ever ... afaik his "Version" of Level-Cap-Increase, was always being some kind of "Fleet Admiral" (in your "old" T5-Ship) actually commanding a fleet consisting of some of your old Ships ... that being said, T6 Ships basically happend "out of the blue" ...
PS : Season 9 ? That was April 2014 ... Dstahl stepped down in January 2014...
I really dont' think most sane people are worried about level caps and gear becoming obsolete.
My issue is that literally they're doing it in a span of months... when most games take years.
The date for level 60 was changed to after Season 9 in, Ask Cryptic, November, 2012. The sale to PW and conversion time to FTP most likely reasons for the delay from Season 6.
With this new specialisation there'll be new ships. New lockboxes. And more power creep.
More and more I find myself logging on less.
If you're chasing the highest DPS score or fastest completion score, then some things will feel obsolete.
If you're just wanting to play and enjoy, then nothing is obsolete at the T5U level.
If anything, this is just expected. Like most MMOs, Cryptic has been working to release a new set of sub-classes at the top level, and the gear specific to it. Unlike those other MMOs, you don't have to grind for that gear in raids; you can just buy them off the cash shop.
No one's forcing you to buy it, just like no one is forcing those players in other MMOs to grind for the new gear.
The only place Cryptic went wrong was not releasing a bigger selection of Specializations from the get-go, and put them all into nice mega bundles. They should have released Intel, Command, and a Sci Specialization into one bundle (with optional cheaper but less value-per-dollar smaller bundles), and then release Pilot and 2 other Space Specializations and their ships in another mega bundle.
This would have reduced any chances of buyer's remorse, and allowed for more options to choose from from the start, rather than feed in one Specialization at a time, then a new one that some might find suits them better than the original (see the Intel/Command fiasco; some actually found Command suited them better, and wanted to respec for it). And with 3 Specializations, plenty of time for Cryptic to work and pad them out as needed before moving on to the next 3.
So really, it's more of a case of bad release planning, that's causing all these issues.
My C-store only T5U vessels (with the exception of my Rom dreadnought bundle) especially my beloved Kumari do make me think "oh GOD how I wish I had just one intel power on this thing!".
My kumari is one of my favourite ships, it totally kicked TRIBBLE before DR and it is good fun to play now but I feel every time like my phantom way out performs it in pretty much every way, and the old gal now feels like she under performs comparatively than before DR. I almost run the exact same loadout (mostly UR and epic gear, classic forward cannon setup),on each vessel and the difference is very noticeable.
That said if the new pilot specialization stuff has a nice t6 replacement for my Kumari, Cryptic my body is ready, and here is my cash.
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
My issue is that's how Bungie studios is managing Destiny. You can't level the same obsolescence scheme at cryptic. Pilot is not replacing command any more than command replaced intel. Likewise any new gear coming out isn't going to replace older sets. Just ask anyone still using omega reputation gear. What cryptic generally does instead is create lateral rather than progressive content, a lot of various stuff alongside existing gear that might work better for certain purposes. Take the Delta Reputation set, its got some interesting defensive strengths to compare with Aegis or Vanilla Maco, but its hardly superior in the same way a level 32 pulse rifle is superior to its level 30 analog [Destiny Reference].
The level cap increase increased power but, IMO, as an inevitable byproduct of building a new pathway for lateral development. Now you can continuously level your character but only along comparable specializations. As more come out you may find something to play for, but only for novelty's sake or for something that incidentally better suits your playstyle. New skills aren't necessarily better than old, and if you find something that works well by all means stick with it.
That's not objectionable by any means, that's how a game like this should be supported (with soft incentives rather than mandatory equipment replacement. See again: Destiny.)
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For myself, I agree that a T6 Andorian corvette would be very welcome. The new pilot specialization seems to beg for more love and attention to those forgotten favorites. How about a T6 KDF BOP?
I like Out-With-The-Old-In-With-The-New. There are games which do not use this mechanism, like chess, and they are also popular with a certain type of gamer. I like MMOs, and I like the change that keeps them fresh.
Sure you can do most content with any of the free event ships or Fleet Tier 5U, but for competitive people its hard to stay at the top or feel value for your dollar with such rapid change.
I would argue that this is not lateral movement as some of the new powers and ships are way more powerful than before. PVP is finally dead as a result of power creep.
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I'll note: I love TOR. But its monetization scheme is killer.
Just because something is a little better than something else doesn't mean it's obsolete.
Plus the king of DPS...the Scimitar is T6 right?
The thread title was "Accelerated obsolescence". Clearly ships are not going to rule the roost forever. But the key word here is accelerated, and I'm inclined to agree. Paying 2000 zen for an Excel was a good value. I didn't replace it until getting an Avenger at release. That's a lot of mileage for my dollar. The 2500 zen Avenger in contrast held it's own for better part of a year until delta rising came out. Not quite as good, but respectable. Now we have 3000 zen DR ships that feel like they're no longer top top one-two months after release! And one WEEK after the command ships came out, they went on sale. You better believe after these hijinks a lot of us are guarding our zen like never before. But what's really too bad is the releasing of a new ship that's trash that has a god like trait that redefines the new baseline of pvp.
Sure, PvP has been changed, but that happens with every game when you have a Level Cap increase. You either get the better gear or you die. It is the same in STO, WoW, SWTOR, WoT, etc. The guy with the 168 gear is not going to defeat the guy with 198 gear. You cannot have Level Cap increases without some obsolescence in PvP. But for the vast majority of people playing STO, who do not PvP nor ever will, needing T6 is more ego then mechanical necessity.
Back in 2006 I joined a F2P game that had a max of 80 levels, by 2012 it had 170. I think its up to 190 these days. My level 80 gear, was replaced by 5 more tiers. My skill tree had 2 more upper tiers added. The game still lives on, and new players still join. People still complain everyday on the forums and have for many years. Doom posts still continue to happen, and no doom comes. With or without the the originals players, the game does not care. It doesn't need you for its success.
That being said, a global spec point reset would be appreciated. Its clearly obvious cryptic didnt even know what they were doing with the spec trees when they started to release the things.
they can add Tier 6,7,8, 356 ships, i don't care. I bought an intel ship (curiosity) and i don't use it. because i don't like the intel skills (i can use SS3 and OSS2).
this won't be different for me with the new T6-pilot.
my main concern is the general idea behind these changes. it seems that they add only toys for kids; but kids don't spend money in the games; Adults, yes;
During stfs some ships look like more a christmas tree than a space ship. there are too much visuals for the skills, and the majority of all these new skills are not really interesting:
all that glitters is not gold.
I would be interested by smart changes; but new ships with new skills -> next idea, please
At 30$ a ship, I'm not going to follow them, that's for sure.
I'll repeat that again, because some people seems to hide their ears when people tell them : in non-p2win game, stuff you buy in the cash shop is not part of what become obsolete. In sto, it is.
In Lotro, or swtor, for example, you can't buy endgame raid gear from the shop, and it's the thing that become obsolete. On the other hand, stuff like costume will not. Or dyes, mount, and all the appearance stuff (including houses decorations).
If they started to sell endgame gear, that would be some serious drama on their forums. On STO, you can totally buy amongst the best ships on the Cstore. And yes, they totally become obsolete after a while.
Yeah. Complain about DR and monetization all you want, but I think of SWTOR and all I can think of is faster leveling for subscribers (basically, 2x xp in social areas if you're subbed - which is of course where you turn in all the missions), denying the new content and higher levels unless you pay, no way that I ever found to get the currency in-game, and more. That's literally P2W - at least in STO you have the option to grind in-game for the exact same things.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
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Thing is though, for SWTOR you can be mostly-done compared to endless grind. Subscribe like once a year to unlock whatever new content and level caps, use that time where your currency cap is lifted to buy whatever account unlocks you want off the GTN, then let it lapse. You're left basically unable to use purple gear for leveling (though still allowed post-50 for some reason, not that I'm complaining), can 'only' do 3 raids per character per week (and with minimum 6 characters, thats still 18 a week at an ~hour a mission), and while you're down to only 350k credits, its just vanity stuff anyways no power for sale. Leveling rate is halved but its still easy to powerlevel even then. Really only hurts if you're a PVPer or super-dedicated raider.
$15 once a year to get rid of most of the grind and power creep? Does have its upsides.
I can see where that's coming from. That does put a good perspective on it.
However, as someone who was 100% F2P, especially with the repetition I was feeling from the different characters, that required pay to unlock part of the basic game was majorly off-putting. I probably have 200 hours in SWTOR without getting a character above 45, and I just haven't found it that fun. Eh. Probably a good thing, I don't have nearly as much time on my hands any more, and couldn't keep with SWTOR, LoL, and STO by any means.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
HA! Great joke friend