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Viable builds reducing by the day....
darramouss1
Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
About a year ago I found that one could compete in a wide variety of builds. Nowadays it seems that the number of viable builds is shrinking at an ever increasing rate.
I'm not the only one that thinks that, am I? I mean, apart fom A2B Manasas and FBP/TBR Scryers and Temporal Sci ships, there's not really much out there worth flying, is there?
Is this a deliberate move by cryptic to kill PvP or has the game turned in to a pure money grab with cryptic neglecting anything that doesn't make them enough cash?
What builds do you think are viable post-DR?
I'm not the only one that thinks that, am I? I mean, apart fom A2B Manasas and FBP/TBR Scryers and Temporal Sci ships, there's not really much out there worth flying, is there?
Is this a deliberate move by cryptic to kill PvP or has the game turned in to a pure money grab with cryptic neglecting anything that doesn't make them enough cash?
What builds do you think are viable post-DR?
Post edited by darramouss1 on
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I know you're right but I truly wish you weren't. It was such a good game. Now it's sliding down to the septic tank.
I'm finding myself logging on less and less as just the act of logging on feels tiring.
Hopefully not too long before Elte: Dangerous is released on Mac.
Might still do okay pvp if someone knows what they're doing...
I think this expansion has pushed AP weaponry, more then anything else.
Its not so much the builds that have suffered, as it is, weapon types suffering, ***everything except AP of course ! ***
I almost feel as if I wasted resources upgrading my crtDx3 plasma beams and 5x spire plasma consoles.
With all the synergy/ advantages AP has in today's game, its a shame I didn't switch right over to AP, as soon as DR was released.
For me, I felt S8 was the beginning of the end. It started really going downhill from there and which was what had me stop PVP'ing to begin with. It had already gotten out of hand with the unbalances, heavy ship favoritism**, power creep, etc.
Then again, I think I can say with confidence also that LOR was the start of the downward spiral. The Roms were and still are so OP. They take things that wouldn't be so bad with normal KDF/Feds, and take them to hardcore extremes that are now unbalanced.
Removal of factions in favor of randomness in the queues? I understood why it happened but it's a huge admission of defeat by Cryptic, IMHO, that they were total failures in promoting multifaction play.
** I recall looking at the KDF teams I was on and realized nobody flew KDF ships. Maybe that 1 crazy guy that still flew a BOP. I looked over at the Fed teams, it was sort of the same. A few still flew Fed ships, since some were quite good, but even on Fed side, the presence of Lockbox/Lobi, etc ships was affecting the faction identities.
So all factions have to invest in ships they wont fly to get the traits for advantages
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
All of those players are using Beam Overload III + Cannon Rapid Fire I.. Beam Overload is hitting for 55k and then each CRF1 shot that crits is hitting for 8-12k. Mk XIV [CritD]x4 weapons are absurdly high on the critical hits at the moment. The only way one could survive would be a science vessel with Feedback Pulse III.
Also, the Mk XIV flight speed on engines is excessively high. When using any form of Hyper Impulse Engine the speed is boosted well beyond the speed bonus provided by EPtE3 + Mk XII engines pre-Delta Rising. Thus any ship not using Hyper Engines can't even keep their enemy in 10km long enough to shoot them. I couldn't even get heavy graviton beam shots off of them (two second charge) as they pass my ship and break 10km in under two seconds. Gravity Well, Tykens Rift, all destructible torpedoes, and anything stationary is a joke against these builds.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
i think it was 8 or 8.5 that made the ques cross faction, that was the biggest deal imo. it felt to me, that a lot of long standing stinkers had been marginalized by other power creep, and there was nothing really awful or super op at that point. season 9 or 9.5 added zindi and all that op crafting TRIBBLE and even upgrades, awful additions that had nothing but a negative effect to pvp health.
I don't think anybody is running EPtE3 really. They likely have the Astika's console equipped which basically acts as another EPtE (picture here).
Just another element stifling choice. Why would you want a Strike Ship (for example) if you can simply have one of those?
Because abilities are not balanced for PvP. A2B CD reduction should never exist (contributing to other ships, primarily escorts, not being used), FBP is overpowered (contributing to lack of dps beam cruiser), and other Sci Abilities CC abilities are almost non-existence due to spammy, easy-accessible counter and being generally underpowered in PvP (too little effect due to skills such as subsystem repair, flow capacitor being too strong).
Intel was supposed to bring more flavor, but EMP has always been useless (due to subsystem repair being too strong) and ionic is now nerfed to the point it's useless in PvP. Which leaves OSS + SS3. But now SS3 is being nerfed due to whines and complaints (primarily from these so called "expert" Sci players, and some whiney manasa players), which may eliminate the Faeht and Phantom.
Ionic nerf was overdone. I mean, it almost seems like they were unable to properly code for diminishing return (perhaps even sharing with Viral Torp) and so they half did it by changing the way it's projected which makes it useless in PvP.
So yea, it's looking pretty grim.
I'm going to disagree with you. Sure, in PvE there are some builds that so so much better than others, but even those non-god builds can make real contributions to the team.
In PvP those non-god builds not only fail to make real contributions, they make huge liabilities to the team.
you, of all the players out there, were abusing broken abilities to the most extend there was.
now you cry hard because these abilities getting a bit more in line with previous balance?
seriously you should just quit pvp in this game if you cant compete without these broken abilities anymore. and im very sure you cant, lol. we all have seen what a skilled cannon/BO escort player you are. and i wont comment on your sci toon...
take the wise move and step down lulz. you know, with your previous behavior you didnt make yourself a lot of friends. its in your own interest cause u always sucked and your attitude is/was the very wrong approach!
Yep...
Way before FAW cruisers were considered good, there was a time I, and 2 friends, would queue up and inevitably one or two of the pugs with us would be a Tac in a DPS cruiser. We'd have to carry the team, doing the damage and healing.
In PvE if you know what you're doing you can make anything work. The only thing that changes is the completion time.
In PvP, even if you know what you're doing, deliberately bringing a subpar build not only makes you fail, it fails the whole team.
Someone got their jimmies rustled! I'm still very active in PvP and am having a blast.
Your tacs all had to be vapers or dogfighters, they had to be running elachi weapons (nothing else was viable), console swapping, and only a specific set of two or three ships were viable, and if you didn't have those ships you couldn't compete.
The introduction of the cross faction queues helped this for a bit, because it meant that things were shaken up a bit- but eventually it went back to total stagnation.
Then season 8.5 happened and upgrades/crafting revamp happened and everyone was scrambling to uptech their stuff and less focused on being the most oppressive teams possible. I pvped sparringly during this period, but eventually just stopped playing entirely when it became apparent that the dil-to-gear divide meant that everyone who had money or huge dil reserves would be massively outperforming those that didn't. That's still true, but upgrading has become much easier since season 9 and 9.5, especially with lots more people maxing out R&D skills and forcing some of the item prices down.
Season 9 was actually where I came back to the game because the introduction of intel powers completely destroyed the team premade dynamic. It was bad- sure- surgical strikes and viral torpedoes everywhere- but it was at least different. All the old assumptions had to be thrown out and people were actually innovating again. Trying different builds, different weapon types. Even old non-intel ships found ways to compete with the new items, traits, and other gear.
But eventually Cryptic's inattention towards the various intel powers and abilities started driving people off.
That it took a change in leadership before they devoted literally the five, ten minutes it took to fix most of those powers clearly indicates how bad PVP's prospects were before SalamiInferno took over. That Cryptic now has actual time allocated to study and fix over and underperforming powers- and has actually done and CONTINUES to do so, is honestly not something I ever expected to see from them.
But it means that for all the people who left, for all the new stuff shaking up the dynamic- that there's innovation again, there's room to grow and experiment and create interesting builds that don't fit into that stagnant classic season 8 setup.
And I know a lot of you hate this- that you want it to go back to season 8 when everything was 'perfect'- but for me, I don't. I wish we had the community back, sure, but I don't wish that the game would be rolled back- because I'll be honest... it wasn't fun. PVP wasn't fun in season 8 unless you could afford have all the relevant bits for a high level premade, didn't enjoy innovating or customizing your ship, didn't enjoy doing anything new or original. Just grab the most powerful build possible and fly it and you're good to go.
There's lots of people who really miss that, who want that back- I don't deny that there are.
But I don't want that back, because for all that the community has bled off, quit, and complains endlessly on the forums without actually playing the game- there's more new players entering PVP now than any other time in its history. They're learning, they're stepping up, and they're taking the place of the so called giants who all gave up when the going got tough.
And for the first time in so long, pvp is interesting and innovative and fun. There are unbalanced bits, but Cryptic is actually spending resources to fix them, little by little. And maybe the bleed off needed to happen- maybe all the grognards needed to leave so that people could actually enjoy pvp again. The community is so much less- but also so much less toxic. The **** talking is largely gone, the HoBos making players legitimately cry in the name of RP, the whole goal of 'making players quit pvp forever' has dried up and died the death it deserves.
So am I glad that all this happened, even if it means that I'm lucky to get two games in a row in so many hours? In all honesty, the answer to that is yes.
I think PVP will recover, and that new players will take the place of the old. I don't believe those old players will all come streaming back envious or anything so purile- but the community has hit its lowest point. So things are looking up.
Sorry, I'll disagree with you there. There is less variety in the builds than ever before. There's more wait time for a match than ever before.
You're one of the minority that believes PvP is getting good again. And that's OK because all of our opinions are valid. Thing is that most everyone else disagrees that it's getting better.
Do I think it will get better? No. The majority of players has always been PvE. With the slow dismantling of PvP that's been happening, the PvE percentage has been growing. Which means Cryptic will be looking to cater to them as they represent the biggest market share. Which means PvP will keep shrinking until it's dead. Leaving STF and other such stuff as the only thing left to do in this game.
At which point I'll be having a giveaway event for everything in my bank.
you got seasons a bit mixed up, DR wasn't season 9, that was the season before DR. expansions don't get season numbers, LoR was between season 6 and 7 if i recall correctly. season 9 was when crafting and zindi stuff landed, when partical gen exploit damage got out of control, when the elachi weapon edge became required, it was just bad. season 8 before it, was very build forgiving, just about anything you could do with a cruiser, sci ship, or escort was useful.
i guess there has been sort of a half season since DR though, with the anniversary event and command spec and featured mission, what should that be refereed too? already had a season 9.5, i guess DR.5? with 10 being the next launch.
Actually LOR was after season 7.
Season 5 brought us the Omega STF system when the STFs were split into space and ground.
Season 6 had the fleet system started.
Season 7 gave us reputations in it's original form and the Tau Dewa sector block.
LOR was released in March of 2013.
nope, nether of us were quite right.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Upcoming_content?cookieSetup=true
^at the very bottom of this page
but expansions are not counted as seasons.
You should try putting together your very own Istvaan Shogaatsu issue RADIATION TERRORBOMBER©.
Ah, well, May. I was close. Oh yes, March was when they revealed all of that stuff to us I believe.
Y'know, say what you will about WHAT was in LOR, I will admit, looking back, the build-up was well-done IMO.