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The Crystalline Energy Torpedo

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  • canis36canis36 Member Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    gulberat wrote: »
    In my case...event burnout I'm afraid. :-/

    Running Winter Wonderland and the Anniversary Omega event back to back, even with the other rewards, I just didn't want to think about taking on another major grind so soon. :(

    Same here. I'm still doing the event...sort of...but only on one or two characters, and even then I'm motivated more by the immediate mark payout and the Very Rare crafting component than the "turn in 14 of this shiny event currency and get what looks like a lot of stuff, but is really not very much in perspective" rewards.
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    edited March 2015
    radakill wrote: »
    This poster seems to have summed it up in 5 lines of text:



    Simplifying (ie- abbreviating) something very often leads to more confusion, not less.

    Just a suggestion, but in the future, sacrificing a few extra lines of text to clarify a concept usually leads to less confusion, not more, if it is explained properly.



    Ok, Energy Weapons vs Projectile Weapon enhancements

    Several reasons why Projectile Weapons training ultimately does not work well here:

    1: Specialization. Is it really worth it to spec in more diverse training just for one weapon slot? Are you going to see a big difference in overall dps values by spending those extra points on kinetic, when energy has been working just fine? And, for players that have specialized, this could mean 500zen just to respec for that one weapon. (This could very well be, as devs are fond of quoting, "as intended")

    2: Resources: One extra weapon type means -BOFF slots (ie, slotting both energy and kinetic abilities, instead of just one type) -BOFF enhancements (ie torpedo loading)

    3: R&D: torpedoes are more difficult to R&D up then beam weapons, simply due to the fact that the resources for one are easier to acquire then the resources for the other.

    So, the question players will be asking themselves is, will the positives outweigh the negatives on equipping this weapon over a beam or cannon that they already have upgraded.

    For many, not having spent points in torpedo weapons training will mean less dps, less resources for energy spec DOFF's, and more money spent on a potentially sub par "energy weapon" that dosent get the same advantages as their already equipped gear.



    Soooooo..... your basically saying you hold an event for 1000 people with an event reward that only perhaps 50 of them will actually try to use... and your good with that?

    mmmmmkay.

    I believe the dev is under the false impression that people HAVE much of a choice here. The way the game is designed is forcing people to play the most effective (not fun, or diverse, or even creative) build, in order to just survive in the current advanced, not to mention elite missions.

    Do you, as devs, even look at the current state of missions, how many people are in que for them, and even then, how many fail as apposed to actually succeed when they DO finally get in one?

    I could go on all day about... all this... but its getting off topic, so, enough.

    Good Day.

    QFT. You, good sir, get it. You get it. The other thing that is bothersome is that, for the known issues that existing kinetics have with some abilities, the introduction of a, "torp that is not a torp", that gets shoe-horned into benefiting from powers like Concentrate Firepower, yet there are existing torpedoes that still do not work with CF (just one example).

    Again, I get it that you want to try to have some people shift to more canon-like builds with the introduction of Command, and even this weapon, but the points are being missed. The quoted post gets it.
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    edited March 2015
    radakill wrote: »
    OK....

    Just got through reading the discription of this torpedo... AAAAAAND... I have a problem with how the enhancements were assigned to it.

    Here is why:

    The description clearly states that even though this weapon is a torpedo, it is an ENERGY torpedo and is NOT enhanced by the normal torpedo skills and/or abilities. Here is a direct quote from the info page:



    NOW, with all that in mind, the problem I have is that, right after Cryptic stated clearly that this weapon is NOT enhanced by traditional torpedo skills/abilities/items, (ie- kinetic skills or items) they list torpedo weapon skills, and not energy, as the skill enhancement!?!?

    The bottom 5 lines of the info screen reads as follows:




    So now, in effect, you have skills that effect kinetic weapon damage enhancing the weapon, even though it is an energy AP weapon, and after you stated that traditional skills will NOT affect this weapon.

    Any Dev, please explain.

    Thanks!

    It was from Borticus's original explanation of what it would and wouldn't be modified by that influenced my decision to complete the previous project first. I should have remembered the unofficial fine print of, "subject to change, viewers discretion is advised" :-). Well, I'll miss this o e by about 4 days... Next year.

    Borticus, could we get n official list of what does modify this weapon, that way, we can properly inform people with questions s about it? Thank you.
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    edited March 2015
    So you're not interested in using the:
    - 50,000 Dilithium Ore
    - 500 Fleet Marks
    - 250 Reputation Marks of your Choice

    ?

    We have players that religiously avoid Ground Combat, yet we gave away a Ground Weapon (Zephram Cochrane's Shotgun) in our previous appointment event. This isn't a new thing.


    I feel like you're talking to me about this :-)
    No,
    No,
    No,

    I hate ground with a passion (not your fault), but I still got the ZC-SG for the days where I am forced to get my boots dirty. It is situationally handy.
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,746 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Ok - Just finally got to test the torp.

    Disclaimer: Been here since Beta, yada yada. I have seen weapons come and go. Let me also say that my expectations were muted from the get-go with this torp, what with the pre-nerf and all. I figured that if you at least had an AP build, it might bring at least parity to other torp offerings. I never expected it to "wow!"-me or anything like that. I just thought that perhaps it could offer a viable alternate to the current torpedo meta.

    In the end, even that is not true.

    The BIGGEST issue with this torp...the one thing that absolutely BOGGLES me - is why the CD is so frikkin high? It is entirely unacceptable give it's specialized utility and mediocre damage. 12 seconds? That's insane. If the torp was some sort of thunderd!ck uber bomb, I could get it...like something more comparable to the Neutronic Torp...but the current CD is absolutely TRIBBLE.

    I can get into all the other mechanics, but Virus was nice enough to cover that, so I'll just say yeah - even with AP builds, it's a weaksauce torp. However, reducing the CD by A LEAST 2 seconds would go a long way to making it...semi attractive?

    Oh - and the visualization is nifty indeed, even if it was heavily influenced from the sensor probes you could launch in the old Starfleet Command video game...

    I know devs are resistant to making changes to player benefit after things go live...but seriously, this torp needs to at least offer some limited parity for me to care, even in an AP-build.
    T93uSC8.jpg
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    edited March 2015

    If you feel like any of these -should- affect this weapon, please feel free to list them individually and we'll review them on a case-by-case basis, when there's time. But, at a glance, this appears to be working as intended.

    Well, if the Projectile Weapons skill gets to boost it, shouldn't anything that is projectile-related, but not kinetic, be allowed to boost the damage? I submit to you that bonuses such as AMACO/KHG should be allowed to boost it.

    Before some of my PvP detractors start accusing me of bias to increase my game, I will not have this torpedo until the next event You will have the advantage over me... for now... ;)
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
  • knc13knc13 Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    In general I find this Torpedo to be pretty cool as it is the first and only torpedo I consider using on my main character, which fortunately has the kind of AP build where it would fit in.

    I totally have to agree with welcome2earf though, the very long cooldown on average damage is a bit of an issue, making it a lot less useful. Unlike welcome2earf I'd suggest making the base damage above average though if we already get that kind of really long cooldown.

    I mean, 12 seconds is longer than all other normal Torpedo types which range from 6 to 10 seconds.

    You could of course give the AP Torpedo 15 seconds cooldown to place it in the field between Tricobalts and the rests, but then also give it a real punch for that CD.
  • huntorhuntor Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Well, since the torpedo is out and it's not the doomsday device that some whiners was afraid of, I think it can be reset to the original CD (8 sec).

    Seriously, I saw NOBODY use this torpedo in Ker'rat or anywhere else. :eek:

    From my part, I use it on my FT5U Defiant, AP build, 5 tact consoles. It have better DPS than the neutronic torpedo but not by a large margin. So I guess the neutronic torp is still better on ships that have less than 4 tact consoles for PVE.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • baelogventurebaelogventure Member Posts: 1,002 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    So you're not interested in using the:
    - 50,000 Dilithium Ore
    - 500 Fleet Marks
    - 250 Reputation Marks of your Choice

    ?

    We have players that religiously avoid Ground Combat, yet we gave away a Ground Weapon (Zephram Cochrane's Shotgun) in our previous appointment event. This isn't a new thing.

    When will we be getting a 360 Omni Array that deals 100% Shield Penetrating Exotic damage that's buffed by the PartGen skill?

    You know, so Sci/Exotic boats have a serviceable ship weapon.
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Wasnt this torpedo supposed to be energy based? I thought, before the event, this AP torpedo was the only one that could be reflected by FBP...Ran a small test yesterday and It hits just like any other torp.

    Working as advertised or was there a change and I missed it?

    The_Science_Channel_Signature_Gen_2_-_Jacobs_xSmall.png


    Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.


  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    edited March 2015
    Wasnt this torpedo supposed to be energy based? I thought, before the event, this AP torpedo was the only one that could be reflected by FBP...Ran a small test yesterday and It hits just like any other torp.

    Working as advertised or was there a change and I missed it?

    There seemed to have been several changes since Borts clarification and what we have now. Was on the receiving end of this thing that had 5 tac consoles powering it and 0 in Projectile skills (one of the changes) and le ow.... then again, I fly a tissue paper ship, so everything is le-oww.

    But yea, the changes afterwards went from, "nah I am not getting it", to, "hmm, NOW it works w/ these other torpedo/kinetic-only abilities (Concentrate Firepower, Projectile Weapon Skills), and DOESN'T have the drawbacks of energy (FBP no affect?)..... yea.....

    I think that kahn and snipey called this one perfectly.
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    edited March 2015
    When will we be getting a 360 Omni Array that deals 100% Shield Penetrating Exotic damage that's buffed by the PartGen skill?

    You know, so Sci/Exotic boats have a serviceable ship weapon.

    No, it's supposed to be [Omni] that deals 100% shieldPen Kinetic damage + 3Km AoE Radiation damage, with both boosted by PGens and FCaps at 2:1 baseDMG, affected by all Cat2 & 3 Buffs, and a 50% chance to apply [Pen] for 3 sec on impact, with an [Over] proc that doubles the damage and applies a stacking [Pen] on target for 6 seconds.
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
  • colonelchenchuancolonelchenchuan Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    huntor2 wrote: »
    Well, since the torpedo is out and it's not the doomsday device that some whiners was afraid of, I think it can be reset to the original CD (8 sec).

    Seriously, I saw NOBODY use this torpedo in Ker'rat or anywhere else. :eek:

    maybe people are like me and still not clear on how it actually works
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dpsloss88dpsloss88 Member Posts: 765 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    rmy1081 wrote: »
    That's a really good point!!!

    Tetryon needs a torpedo!!! (yes i know web mines, and they can actually do some good dps, but a torpedo!! :) )

    Web mines are better than any torpedo I have acquired....
  • psyloafpsyloaf Member Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Who designed the visuals? It looks stunning. Torpedo Spread III = pure awesomeness. I'm really liking the trails too, they're great.
    Fleet Advanced Research Vessel T6
    Commander Science, Lieutenant Commander Engineering, Lieutenant Commander Universal, Lieutenant Tactical, Ensign Science
  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,746 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Like an above poster stated, since the torp is not UBER like bother players and devs may have feared, can we PLEASE move it back to a standard 8-10 second CD?

    Long cooldowns are used t counter high damage....but this torp does not that have that, so the long CD seems superfluous and redundant. Please consider this.
    T93uSC8.jpg
  • psych2lpsych2l Member Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    super confusing since it works with kinetic precision and viral torp but not kinetic shearing, wtf
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    edited March 2015
    psych2l wrote: »
    super confusing since it works with kinetic precision and viral torp but not kinetic shearing, wtf

    Before, I was going to let go of obtaining the torpedo based off of what Borticus told us during the pre-release. I was perplexed with some of the changes made to it for its interaction w/ Concentrate Firepower AFTER its release, but, meh, whatever. Now that it's actually working with torpedo skills and KINETIC abilities, something that we were told it wouldn't do, those of us that decided to finish previous projects feel that we were cheated and lied to concerning the interactions of this weapon.

    The irony; this weapon works better with Concentrate Firepower than any torpedo in the game.
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    edited March 2015
    wardcalis wrote: »
    I did a breakdown/review of this torp in the mechanics thread. I still think consoles that increase both (torps AND mines) like the Defense platform and the Rule 62 Multipurpose console should boost it. So it wouldn't get boosted as a torp but as a projectile it would. I'd love genaric +torp damage to boost it but I'd be happy if the amaco/khg set bonus did

    Nice write-up, btw. I'll add to it when I have time.
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
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