LTS, Gold Sub, or... not?

centaurianalpha · March 2015

I've been trying to evaluate whether Cryptic has finally corrected enough faux pax's for me to justify a lifetime subscription, or maybe renew my Gold subscription. I'm cautiously optimistic that the new EP has a more player-friendly set of values, but there are still many drawbacks yet to be addressed, and even more uncertainty now that a new "class" of player character is on the horizon.

My personal irritations are these:

Shoddy Workmanship: bugs upon bugs, including every new "feature" in the game.
Horrid Maps: The Ocampa freighter rescue map is the absolute worst lagfest in the entire game, but not the only map to have this type of issue.
Incomplete Crafting: many gear items still missing, bugs remain in crafting dynamics.
Social Zone Lag: Rubberbanding & other movement lag at bases is a server/resource utilization issue, not my connection!
Horrendous Timegates: crafting & specializations are drawn out beyond reason, because this is easier than actual game balance, but a real inhibitor to new players' enthusiasm to develop alt characters.
BOff/Power Tray Instability: seriously, by now I should not be warping into a CCA PvE with all my BOffs AWOL; a visible indication of lack of actual game mechanics knowledge on the part of the dev's.
Reputation Ground Set Display Bugs: These have gone unrepaired for years now...
Random Disconnects: more server instability.
Ship Renaming: broken; I can't rename any of the most recent event ships, despite being able to with all of the summer event ships. One of four char's can't change skins, either.
Event Overlap: Enough already! One event at a time is plenty; I could care less what else you throw at us during a multi-week event, I've still only got a limited amount of game time.
Constant Grind Intensification: I'd really like a break from events, just so I can try to enjoy the DR content; limited gaming time, remember?

To be fair, there have been many positive changes:

Bug Fixes: some of the things broken by the release of DR have now been fixed.
BOff Training: the new system is awkward, but works OK.
Specializations: are actually useful, once we finally reach them.
Crafting/Upgrades: mostly good overall, except for the bugs...
Events: interesting things have been added in most, apart from the bugs...
Top 3 Foundry Links: excellent idea, which guarantees I will now play more Foundry content
Useful Event Ships: I have had no need to buy any ships from the Z-store because of the quality of these event ships!
Omega Upgrades: The single most brilliant addition from the player's perspective I have seen in the last 18 months!
Star Trek Memorials: finally proof that someone at Cryptic actually listens to the players occasionally, and cares a little bit about the franchise!

I'm not sure the good stuff offsets the bad yet, so maybe I'll settle for the Gold sub for now...

saber68 · March 2015

I have been thinking about this too. Been a gold member for about 3 years. For me though, it comes down to value for money. Even in a sale, £125 is a lot considering what you actually get. The T5 ship would never get used now I have better already and I have little interest in any other veteran rewards.

They need to seriously upgrade the rewards and add more incentive for me to consider paying out that money...

starkaos · March 2015

There is absolutely no point to being a Gold Member for longer than a month. Either go LTS or F2P with a heavy emphasis on the F2P due to the main purpose of being LTS no longer exists.

dirlettia · March 2015

If I was coming to this game now I would most certainly be F2P. The amount of work required to do anything with one toon makes having many of them pointless, and it is pointless to spend the required money on a ship for a single toon.

If you have plenty of toons and money to spare you may find it better to just buy what you want and forget about the LTS. You may also like to consider that with the current releases in the store anything you do buy will probably be outclassed in a few months as new things are added to try and pry open peoples wallets.

chalpen · March 2015

their really isn't any point on giving cryptic money for LTS or Keys.

Good Zen Ships? Sure. Knock yourself out. But the LTS is obsolete.

centaurianalpha · March 2015

the main purpose of being LTS no longer exists.

I'm not sure what the original purpose was, but I was thinking the 500z stipend would eventually offset the LTS sale price, assuming that Cryptic doesn't kill the game before then by over-reaching the grind & cash grabs. $200US doesn't go all that far when it comes to the Z-Store, even with sales. Fortunately, I already have most of the stuff I need, apart from some more bank slots & my pet lock box project. The extra XP boost & access to a few premium ships is all I would actually yield apart from the stipend... :rolleyes:

gulberat · March 2015

I would say for now, stay F2P. Based on what we've heard about the lead time on producing content, I would say we won't be able to really be sure how Mr. Ricossa's actions align with his (positive) words until late summer, possibly fall. I have not spent since before DR, and will not until I see long-term evidence why I should.

dirlettia · March 2015

centaurianalpha wrote: »

IThe extra XP boost & access to a few premium ships is all I would actually yield apart from the stipend... :rolleyes:

There are enough LTS players out there anyway that the chances are that in the majority of the groups you will enter, at least one will be a 700+ day Vet giving you the xp bonus anyway during the mission. No idea if you can quickly turn in DoFF missions while grouped to get the bonus then as well but I don't see it not applying myself.

starkaos · March 2015

centaurianalpha wrote: »

I'm not sure what the original purpose was, but I was thinking the 500z stipend would eventually offset the LTS sale price, assuming that Cryptic doesn't kill the game before then by over-reaching the grind & cash grabs. $200US doesn't go all that far when it comes to the Z-Store, even with sales. Fortunately, I already have most of the stuff I need, apart from some more bank slots & my pet lock box project. The extra XP boost & access to a few premium ships is all I would actually yield apart from the stipend... :rolleyes:

The original purpose was pay $240 at the start so you save money on subscriptions down the road. Buying the LTS now takes 3 years 4 months to break even. When it first launched, it took 1 year 4 months to break even. Whether the game is still around in 3 years is anyone's guess.

nimbull · March 2015

Back in the day I would say yes more then today. Since DR I'd say save your money for something less buggy and with more content distributed to it's factions without favoritism.

js26568 · March 2015

I don't know why people keep getting excited over the 500 Zen stipend. It's around $5 worth of Zen once per calendar month - even at today's over-inflated Dil/Zen ratio you can earn that much just through normal gameplay in 12 days.

It certainly shouldn't be a major reason for getting the Lifetime Subscription.

teknesia · March 2015

Honestly if it weren't for the char I just started or the delta char next month then I wouldn't bother. Also I'm only 200 days from 1000 vet reward so imay continue to sub sporadically until that happens at least.

bobbydazlers · March 2015

as I always say in these threads buying LTS was the best money I have ever spent on games, also as always I will add get it when its on sale for the best value.

when I bought LTS with the state of the game as it was then it was without doubt extremely good value, with the state of the game today I will still say its very very good value, it has lost a bit of its appeal with the introduction of T6 ships and I am suppressed they haven't offered a T6 ship with the LTS purchase even if it was only for new buyers and not part of the standard rewards for all lifers.

having said that LTS is worth it for the monthly stipend alone and will pay for itself with that alone providing the game will last long enough to recoup the purchase price with zen and I truly believe that it will.

nimbull wrote: »

Back in the day I would say yes more then today. Since DR I'd say save your money for something less buggy and with more content distributed to it's factions without favoritism.

that's all very well if you can find another game you enjoy and play as much as STO, personally I have yet to find another game that comes close in both respects even enough to pay a quarter the price I paid for LTS on STO.

centaurianalpha · March 2015

Good input, thanks all! I'm only 60 days away from the 300-day boost, so I guess I'll give Cryptic the benefit of the doubt for now, and renew my Gold sub for 2 more months. It'll be that long before S10, and the next LTS sale anyway... :P

starkaos · March 2015

sopwithsnipe wrote: »

I'm sorry but your math is faulty.

Adding up the the dollar value of all the items that you get when you buy an LTS assuming 100 zen= $1 dollar for just 1 character comes to roughly $168.05

Out of a $200 purchase for an LTS when it is on sale leaves a balance of roughly $31.95 to recoup.

Then figuring in the monthly stipend of $5 dollars worth of zen it only takes 6 months to break even.

A player with more than 1 character breaks even, even faster than that.

All that being said only an idiot would choose to sub monthly over buying an LTS because in order to unlock all those vet rewards he will have to shell out $510 bucks and wait 34 months or two months shy of three years.

Play for free or buy the LTS. There's no other sane choice.

That is assuming that you would actually purchase everything from the LTS if the choice was available. I based my $240 value on getting the LTS during Beta and the monthly subscription to get 1 year 4 months and the other value is strictly from the $200 and 500 Zen to get 3 years 4 months. Not everyone is going to use every single bonus in the LTS. After all, why would I want to create Neelix or any other Talaxian as a playable character. The monthly subscription from the old LTS and the Zen Stipend are the only benefits that everyone will use. A bonus is worthless if it is never used.

bluegeek · March 2015

The second biggest single reason to buy LTS or not is if you're trying to maintain multiple alts beyond just one or three. The extras in the form of account-wide veteran rewards and various extra slots for your characters are what pay for themselves even over and above the stipend.

But that all assumes you're actually happy with the game. Seems many people aren't and if you're skeptical that it would get any better down the road you should stay F2P/Silver and see what happens.

Once upon a time I wished I'd had the money to take advantage of it. Now that I have the money as a 1000 day Vet, I have no strong motive to do it and regrets either way. Definitely makes more sense for me to just buy zen during a sale and stay Silver, but that's just me.

starkaos · March 2015

sopwithsnipe wrote: »

And your math is still wrong. Even if the only value a person gets from the LTS is the stipend it only takes 20 months to break even on the LTS.

Monthly sub=$15 bucks
Monthly Stipend=$5 bucks in zen credit
So the monthly sub is essentially $10 bucks with a $5 buck zen purchase.

An LTS on sale is $200 bucks which equals twenty $10 dollar monthly payments.

Really? You think a monthly sub is worth $10 per month? It is far better to subscribe for one month, then get the Energy Limit Cap Limit increase which amounts to $20 in total than to actually think the monthly sub is worth something and subscribe for longer.

My math is not wrong. The only value I attribute to the monthly subscription is the Zen Stipend. So it is not an issue with math, but worth.

centaurianalpha · March 2015

An LTS on sale is $200 bucks which equals twenty $10 dollar monthly payments.

Everyone places value on features differently; as a currently F2P player, the money leaving my wallet for Gold is still $15/month, irrespective of the benefits accrued. So the simplest breakdown for me is 200/15 = 13.3334 months. Yes, LTS gets you some useful toys & buffs along the way, but BlueGeek is correct in that the account-wide benefits multiply the value.

Assuming that the Delta Recruit character has a future beyond the upcoming event, it would benefit the most from an LTS. I'm holding out on the LTS for now, to see if Cryptic is really serious about improving their product quality and customer service...

darramouss1 · March 2015

Full disclosure, I'm an LTS. Now that that's out f the way....

I've read many thread about whether to LTS or not. Most of them are full of yeses and noes, all full of peoples' individual reasons for their advice.

Here's the thing. All that advice? It's right, but for that person only.

What you need to do is look at each feature of the LTS and ask yourself "Do I value that feature?" go through the list. When you reach the end you need to ask yourself if the yeses are worth the money, or do the noes prove to devalue the package?

For me, the yeses won quite easily. I love playing as a Liberated Borg. I really like having so many retrain tokens. I love my Talaxian. I like the uniforms. I've found the EV suits handy. The veteran ship is good until you decide on a better one to fly. My Androids are a must for me.

But these reasons are personal to me. You need to determine what's good for you and to hell with what other people say.

Oh, one other thing. bluegeek is right when he says that it's better if you're maintaining multiple toons. That's when I found the value of the LTS increase.

Let us know what you decide.

cptjhunter · March 2015

If you plan to be here for the long haul, and you got a few hundred bucks just burning a hole in your pocket, go for it. I personally feel it was worth it when I got mine. Not anymore. Micro transactions seem the rewarding business model for this game. Most subscriber, and LTS benefits can be had with zen transactions, the useful ones at least.500zen a month means my LTS will pay for itself in another year.

nimbull · March 2015

bobbydazlers wrote: »

that's all very well if you can find another game you enjoy and play as much as STO, personally I have yet to find another game that comes close in both respects even enough to pay a quarter the price I paid for LTS on STO.

I did, I re-upped my WoW subscription. I have a LTS I bought a while ago, but since I'm not seeing more faction ships vs. lockbox and other type ships (Especially pure science ones for the KDF/Romulan factions) I re-upped. So money I'd spend on zen for things I'm using to pay for another game subscription.

I'd also want fleet T6 ships and lots of bug fixes before I'd change my recommendation.

centaurianalpha · March 2015

Understandably, people are passionate about this particular choice, for their various reasons. In my case, I was mostly using the OP as a vehicle to point out areas of improvement I would like to see before I reward Cryptic for their compulsive meddling in the game mechanics.

Once the decision is made, there is nothing more to discuss, except whether Cryptic has no appreciation for those who made the biggest single purchase in the game. I'm honestly a little concerned that PWE/Cryptic look at the lifers as a liability, in that there is not really anything else they need from the Z-store, with all the LTS perks.

I've already spent more on STO than all but one other game, and I played on that server for eight years, paying more than the STO monthly subscription. If I enjoy something enough, the cost is really not the deciding factor, and the list I posted at the top of the thread exposes the issues currently preventing me from enjoying STO as much as that other game...

razar2380 · March 2015

centaurianalpha wrote: »

I've been trying to evaluate whether Cryptic has finally corrected enough faux pax's for me to justify a lifetime subscription, or maybe renew my Gold subscription. I'm cautiously optimistic that the new EP has a more player-friendly set of values, but there are still many drawbacks yet to be addressed, and even more uncertainty now that a new "class" of player character is on the horizon.

My personal irritations are these:

Shoddy Workmanship: bugs upon bugs, including every new "feature" in the game.
Horrid Maps: The Ocampa freighter rescue map is the absolute worst lagfest in the entire game, but not the only map to have this type of issue.
Incomplete Crafting: many gear items still missing, bugs remain in crafting dynamics.
Social Zone Lag: Rubberbanding & other movement lag at bases is a server/resource utilization issue, not my connection!
Horrendous Timegates: crafting & specializations are drawn out beyond reason, because this is easier than actual game balance, but a real inhibitor to new players' enthusiasm to develop alt characters.
BOff/Power Tray Instability: seriously, by now I should not be warping into a CCA PvE with all my BOffs AWOL; a visible indication of lack of actual game mechanics knowledge on the part of the dev's.
Reputation Ground Set Display Bugs: These have gone unrepaired for years now...
Random Disconnects: more server instability.
Ship Renaming: broken; I can't rename any of the most recent event ships, despite being able to with all of the summer event ships. One of four char's can't change skins, either.
Event Overlap: Enough already! One event at a time is plenty; I could care less what else you throw at us during a multi-week event, I've still only got a limited amount of game time.
Constant Grind Intensification: I'd really like a break from events, just so I can try to enjoy the DR content; limited gaming time, remember?

To be fair, there have been many positive changes:

Bug Fixes: some of the things broken by the release of DR have now been fixed.
BOff Training: the new system is awkward, but works OK.
Specializations: are actually useful, once we finally reach them.
Crafting/Upgrades: mostly good overall, except for the bugs...
Events: interesting things have been added in most, apart from the bugs...
Top 3 Foundry Links: excellent idea, which guarantees I will now play more Foundry content
Useful Event Ships: I have had no need to buy any ships from the Z-store because of the quality of these event ships!
Omega Upgrades: The single most brilliant addition from the player's perspective I have seen in the last 18 months!
Star Trek Memorials: finally proof that someone at Cryptic actually listens to the players occasionally, and cares a little bit about the franchise!

I'm not sure the good stuff offsets the bad yet, so maybe I'll settle for the Gold sub for now...

First, we all know that they have a history of waiting till the last min on about everything before putting it on Tribble to be tested. So, there are always going to be a large number of bugs. As long as the bugs don't stop you from playing, then I wouldn't worry too much about that, because they do fix a few of them over time.

Second, with the drop in the number of players in the game, and their inability to do anything to bring them back for a long period of time, there is the question of how long will the game last?

I am not screaming "DOOM and GLOOM!"

I am just reasoning it out. A lot of new players that I have made friends with shortly before, and after DR have almost all left the game after reaching level 60 (if they got that far) and realized the game is designed to have you grind endlessly, with no feeling of progression. For that reason, a lot of players they get, most likely don't stay for a while after reaching 50-60.

With that in mind, and the large number of existing players that left, and the DPS chase the game has been focused towards, it does make me wonder how long the game will make it.

it has already been 5 years that the game has made it. The average lifespan of a MMO varies. For me, even though I had some friends offer to buy a LTS for me last year, I asked them not to. The reason is this:

For what little the LTS gives, as well as a monthly sub gives, I would rather see the money go into something else, or be held to see where the game will be in another year. If the game is able to regain its player base on a steady basis, and can fix things that are encouraging existing and loyal players to look elsewhere, then I will consider it.

But, at the price of monthly, and even LTS, it will need to be a price that fits the subject. If they are not able to hold onto loyal players, it doesn't mean it will die. It can still survive. However, it leaves me to wonder why there is not something that they do for loyal players to keep them?

If I invest into it, what will my return be after two-three years? Will I just be another number on their metrics, or will they show that they appreciate my business?

In a year, if they have shown that they can do this, then i will reconsider it again, if the finances are there. If not, then I would rather put that money into something else I may enjoy more. 1 year is not a long time to wait. So, I suggest doing the same.

chandlerashari · March 2015

If you like the game as is, and gain enjoyment from being in the sto universe And only have time for sto go LTS (like me i guess)

Gold isnt worth it.

If yr an mmo tourist (>2 MMos) or have a backlog of Single player stuff you enjoy, stay F2P.

(Or secret option 4: be successful enough at life that 300 bucks of sto till it dies becomes "aint no thang")

LTS, Gold Sub, or... not?

Comments

When I think about everything we've been through together,

maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

and if that journey takes a little longer,

so we can do something we all believe in,

I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.