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Forums > Home› Feedback› PvP Gameplay

Supression Barrage

freenos85freenos85 Member Posts: 443 Arc User
edited March 2015 in PvP Gameplay
The movement debuff can't be resisted or cleared by anything.

Tested were all team abilities (Intel, Engineering, Tactical, and Science), Aux2Damp, Hazard (just to be sure), and Attack Pattern Omega.

Aux2Damp and Omega just somewhat counteract the effect through their own stat boosts.

Dammit ... this was supposed to go into the bug section. Well, just a heads up then ...
Post edited by freenos85 on
«1

Comments

  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    its not in the nature of new paywall ships and their new grind and pay wall station powers to play by good and fair game design rules, they exist to trump checks and balances and be better then alternatives, so you will buy them and permanently park your fleet of tier 5 ships you spent a fortune on already.

    and thats why why i have enough self respect not to log on anymore.
    gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Oh you started 2 threads with the same title, a moderator should merge these.
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
  • freenos85freenos85 Member Posts: 443 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    disposeableh3r0 wrote: »
    Oh you started 2 threads with the same title, a moderator should merge these.

    Not quite. This one has a spelling error in the title :D
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    freenos85 wrote: »
    Not quite. This one has a spelling error in the title :D

    Ah yes well that makes them totally different then.:rolleyes:
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
  • riccardo171riccardo171 Member Posts: 1,802 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Broken? Dude there's nothing broken with that ability, you can slot DEM3 and still be cool without it, nowhere to the level of SS3 as weapon-enhancing ability.

    And it's currently not applying accuracy debuff. To counter it fly outside the attacker's range and it gets immediately cleared, it's not that hard to escape a cruiser you know.
  • colonelkiracolonelkira Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    riccardo171 wrote: »
    Broken? Dude there's nothing broken with that ability, you can slot DEM3 and still be cool without it, nowhere to the level of SS3 as weapon-enhancing ability.

    And it's currently not applying accuracy debuff. To counter it fly outside the attacker's range and it gets immediately cleared, it's not that hard to escape a cruiser you know.

    We don't compare it to SS3. I don't even consider SS3 to be broken atm, it's just unbalanced and as a conclusion OP.

    In my opinion there should be an immunity provided at least by omega. The movement debuff of SB works quite similar to Warp Plasma, and that debuff is completely negated by APO or totally cleared with hazard. I don't see why there should be movement debuffs, that can't be countered by any skill, but just weakened. I don't even doubt that passive resistances, provided by skill points in ID, might not work against it, after cryptic has brought a bunch of abilities, being not resistable with ID. But i guess, that this has to be confirmed by testing first.
    58. / SvK
  • colonelkiracolonelkira Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    patrickngo wrote: »
    bug report posted. Maybe they'll say it's "Not supposed to be THAT good." After all, Ionic Turbulence turned out to have gone live with defects too...

    but I got a question for the OP...

    Did you try hitting the source with a placate-to disrupt their target lock-if it DOES clear when they lose the lock, maybe...jam targeting sensors?

    It's a debuff, that is applying for 2 secs after every hit on the target. Breaking target lock would of course stop you reapplying the debuff on that target. But that's not a clear, although the debuff disappears quite fast due to it's low duration. A guy fawing with SB is possible to set a full team under its debuff effects. That would require everyone applying jam sensors on him, to be fully protected. Also jam sensors is cleared by a couple of things, for example by redundant sensors (passive!) or sci team.
    58. / SvK
  • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    colonelkira wrote: »
    It's a debuff, that is applying for 2 secs after every hit on the target. Breaking target lock would of course stop you reapplying the debuff on that target. But that's not a clear, although the debuff disappears quite fast due to it's low duration. A guy fawing with SB is possible to set a full team under its debuff effects. That would require everyone applying jam sensors on him, to be fully protected. Also jam sensors is cleared by a couple of things, for example by redundant sensors (passive!) or sci team.

    or use scramble to have that dude apply the debuff to his whole team. I think the short duration is it's balance. Has anyone tried SNB? It's a buff to weapons; I'm pretty sure it can be cleared by SNB or that intel power. Giving it total immunity from APO or A2D would just make it just another LOL power.
  • colonelkiracolonelkira Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    rmy1081 wrote: »
    or use scramble to have that dude apply the debuff to his whole team. I think the short duration is it's balance. Has anyone tried SNB? It's a buff to weapons; I'm pretty sure it can be cleared by SNB or that intel power. Giving it total immunity from APO or A2D would just make it just another LOL power.

    APO making you immune to almost every other movement debuff doesn't make most of them LOL powers. That would just require you to time this ability. Like tractor beam for example. Like every other. And i'm not an advocate of A2D providing immunity to it. It's not the intended function of A2D. APO has a gap, A2D does have a shorter one or none.
    58. / SvK
  • riccardo171riccardo171 Member Posts: 1,802 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    SNB indeed clears it, but really it's nowhere broken. Omega and ID kind of soften up the effect, but not entirely. The counters are easy, aka fly out of range, jam, scramble, cloak. I can't see the issue with it. It doesn't kill me, it's not uncounterable.

    It's more broken that ignores aux2damp, even if it's active when it hits.
  • blessedladyboyblessedladyboy Member Posts: 349 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Suppression barrage doesn't appear to effect escorts all that much to be honest, and since omega and evasive is up almost permanently and all other command abilities are cleared with tac team I'm not sure this proposed nerf/bugfix is justified.
    I hope they fix the acc bug soon though.
  • freenos85freenos85 Member Posts: 443 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I simply want abilities to work as advertised. Omega gives you "Immunity to Movement Debuffs"
    What is part of Suppression Barrages effect ... right!, a movement debuff ...
  • therealhassanbtherealhassanb Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    riccardo171 wrote: »
    SNB indeed clears it, but really it's nowhere broken. Omega and ID kind of soften up the effect, but not entirely. The counters are easy, aka fly out of range, jam, scramble, cloak. I can't see the issue with it. It doesn't kill me, it's not uncounterable.

    It's more broken that ignores aux2damp, even if it's active when it hits.

    dude, u really try to defend another ability which probably is flagged as no resistable?
    seriously, this needs to have a counter which is not SNB lol, regarding its 15s cd it should at least be cleansed with hazard emitters or omega. it is a major problem with new powers that one cant counter them. you know, before they introduced these new abilities every single "old" skill has a hard counter. the game can only work this way, it gets broken when you dont have hard counters. i cant understand how u can support sth like this. even if u like the concept there must be a counter to it...
  • therealhassanbtherealhassanb Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    blessedladyboy wrote: »
    Suppression barrage doesn't appear to effect escorts all that much to be honest, and since omega and evasive is up almost permanently and all other command abilities are cleared with tac team I'm not sure this proposed nerf/bugfix is justified.
    I hope they fix the acc bug soon though.

    thats simply not true. my escort is at a standard impulse speed of 150. when i pop evasive or omega i should be able to escape nearly all situations. in fact, i am. but not vs supression barrage, it slows my ship to 50 impulse, 60 with evasive. i really dont have any problems with any other cc there is. but supression barrage, as it is, cant be countered or resisted and renders ur speed useless. this is one of the most broken abilities i ever seen apart from viral torp and ionic chain stuns.
  • riccardo171riccardo171 Member Posts: 1,802 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    therealhassanb wrote: »
    dude, u really try to defend another ability which probably is flagged as no resistable?
    seriously, this needs to have a counter which is not SNB lol, regarding its 15s cd it should at least be cleansed with hazard emitters or omega. it is a major problem with new powers that one cant counter them. you know, before they introduced these new abilities every single "old" skill has a hard counter. the game can only work this way, it gets broken when you dont have hard counters. i cant understand how u can support sth like this. even if u like the concept there must be a counter to it...

    I'm just saying what I think about it. It hasn't created any issues for me, I just fly out the cruiser's range (.15 impulse mod and 8 turn, they're not fast after all). The fact that it's continuously applied every 2 secs can potentially make you suffer it for a few seconds, wait a bit and get back in the fight. If majority says that for them is too hard to counter and needs stronger resists provided by AtD and APO, so be it, just saying my point of view. However, they should not completely counter Suppression. Lemme explain

    AtD1
    +24.3 kinetic damage resistance for 15 seconds
    +33.3% flight speed strength for 15 seconds
    +66.6% turn rate strength for 15 seconds
    Immunity to Disable for 15 seconds
    Immunity to Repel for 15 seconds
    +24.3 able crewmen resistance for 15 seconds
    +24.3 alive crewmen resistance for 15 seconds

    APO3
    +16.6% All Damage strength for 10 sec
    +25 All Damage resistance for 10 sec
    +40% Flight Speed strength for 5 sec
    +40% Flight Turn Rate strength for 5 sec
    Immunity to Movement Debuffs for 10 sec
    Immunity to Disable Debuffs for 10 sec
    +30% Defense strength for 5 sec
    Immunity to Teleport for 10 sec

    SB3
    -66,7 Flight Speed and Turn rate
    -100% accuracy
    -50% outgoing damage

    I agree, that APO3 should counter the movement debuff, and AtD partially counter it.

    However, -100% accuracy and -50% outgoing damage should not. APO and AtD are not designed to counter them as well. In that case, the counter is, as I said earlier, jam/scramble/cloak/run.

    But probably my bad, I've reread what I wrote, I was trying to explain something but ended up saying a different one. Pardon I was on the phone lol
  • therealhassanbtherealhassanb Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    riccardo171 wrote: »
    I'm just saying what I think about it. It hasn't created any issues for me, I just fly out the cruiser's range (.15 impulse mod and 8 turn, they're not fast after all). The fact that it's continuously applied every 2 secs can potentially make you suffer it for a few seconds, wait a bit and get back in the fight. If majority says that for them is too hard to counter and needs stronger resists provided by AtD and APO, so be it, just saying my point of view. However, they should not completely counter Suppression. Lemme explain

    AtD1
    +24.3 kinetic damage resistance for 15 seconds
    +33.3% flight speed strength for 15 seconds
    +66.6% turn rate strength for 15 seconds
    Immunity to Disable for 15 seconds
    Immunity to Repel for 15 seconds
    +24.3 able crewmen resistance for 15 seconds
    +24.3 alive crewmen resistance for 15 seconds

    APO3
    +16.6% All Damage strength for 10 sec
    +25 All Damage resistance for 10 sec
    +40% Flight Speed strength for 5 sec
    +40% Flight Turn Rate strength for 5 sec
    Immunity to Movement Debuffs for 10 sec
    Immunity to Disable Debuffs for 10 sec
    +30% Defense strength for 5 sec
    Immunity to Teleport for 10 sec

    SB3
    -66,7 Flight Speed and Turn rate
    -100% accuracy
    -50% outgoing damage

    I agree, that APO3 should counter the movement debuff, and AtD partially counter it.

    However, -100% accuracy and -50% outgoing damage should not. APO and AtD are not designed to counter them as well. In that case, the counter is, as I said earlier, jam/scramble/cloak/run.

    But probably my bad, I've reread what I wrote, I was trying to explain something but ended up saying a different one. Pardon I was on the phone lol

    1. read my second post above.
    2. do some more testing with it.
    3. it is AOE.
    4. try to escape with 50 impulse, lol and that on scort with p2w speed console equipped... (as i said evasive or APO get u to 60 impulse all with active epte ofc, yay)
    5. so ure saying -100 acc and -50% dmg is totally fine to not be resistable and being applied to a full team?
    6. it has 2/3rd uptime
  • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    therealhassanb wrote: »
    1. read my second post above.
    2. do some more testing with it.
    3. it is AOE.
    4. try to escape with 50 impulse, lol and that on scort with p2w speed console equipped... (as i said evasive or APO get u to 60 impulse all with active epte ofc, yay)
    5. so ure saying -100 acc and -50% dmg is totally fine to not be resistable and being applied to a full team?
    6. it has 2/3rd uptime


    I remember when 50 impulse was fast lol

    also,
    team play
  • wast33wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    rmy1081 wrote: »
    I remember when 50 impulse was fast lol

    also,
    team play

    better times imho, nerf speed tanking anyway ;)!
  • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    wast33 wrote: »
    better times imho, nerf speed tanking anyway ;)!

    you can still speed tank at 50 speed which is fine. Max defense and cycle APO and A2D and you're good to go. The issue with 150 speed is it introduces huge latency issues and other glitchy problems.
  • therealhassanbtherealhassanb Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    rmy1081 wrote: »
    I remember when 50 impulse was fast lol

    also,
    team play

    regarding team play, lol: what would u do against 3 guys spamming SB3 with 100% uptime? nuke every 15 seconds?

    this skill is ridiculous in its current state and negates all team play efforts.
    try to make a kill while being affected by SB3...

    btw, current meta forces one to have at least 100 impulse speed or ure dead or cant kill anything. just sayin
  • bobosmrade1bobosmrade1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    rmy1081 wrote: »
    you can still speed tank at 50 speed which is fine. Max defense and cycle APO and A2D and you're good to go. The issue with 150 speed is it introduces huge latency issues and other glitchy problems.

    And a felling that you are faster than torpedos...
    Cave Troll vs Forum troll
    Know the difference
    It could save your life...
    rushatsi wrote: »
    pvp? whats dat?
    starwrathforever wrote: »
    Pervert vs. Pervert!:eek:
  • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    therealhassanb wrote: »
    regarding team play, lol: what would u do against 3 guys spamming SB3 with 100% uptime? nuke every 15 seconds?

    this skill is ridiculous in its current state and negates all team play efforts.
    try to make a kill while being affected by SB3...

    as a team, you can also scramble, move away (it only lats 2 seconds), jam sensors, and not only SNB but there's that intel nuke also. With all hands on deck, yeah 1 science character can nuke quite often now.
    therealhassanb wrote: »
    btw, current meta forces one to have at least 100 impulse speed or ure dead or cant kill anything. just sayin

    That's never been true and it's not true now. You're relying too much on 1 play style.
  • therealhassanbtherealhassanb Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    rmy1081 wrote: »
    as a team, you can also scramble, move away (it only lats 2 seconds), jam sensors, and not only SNB but there's that intel nuke also. With all hands on deck, yeah 1 science character can nuke quite often now.



    That's never been true and it's not true now. You're relying too much on 1 play style.

    well, you are forgetting that it gets constantly reapplied.

    you can try and come to pvp with a non tank ship below 100 impulse. you cant catch up with the others. you cant kill anyone nor heal if u cant catch up.
    and in a scenario with 3 people spamming SB3 theres no way to counter it... you see one can clear a scramble f.e. but one CANT clear SB debuff...
    so how is this counterable?
  • bobosmrade1bobosmrade1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    therealhassanb wrote: »
    well, you are forgetting that it gets constantly reapplied.

    you can try and come to pvp with a non tank ship below 100 impulse. you cant catch up with the others. you cant kill anyone nor heal if u cant catch up.
    and in a scenario with 3 people spamming SB3 theres no way to counter it... you see one can clear a scramble f.e. but one CANT clear SB debuff...
    so how is this counterable?

    Ehm...
    /logout
    Cave Troll vs Forum troll
    Know the difference
    It could save your life...
    rushatsi wrote: »
    pvp? whats dat?
    starwrathforever wrote: »
    Pervert vs. Pervert!:eek:
  • therealhassanbtherealhassanb Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    bobosmrade1 wrote: »
    Ehm...
    /logout

    probably the best solution these days with the current meta...
  • riccardo171riccardo171 Member Posts: 1,802 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    therealhassanb wrote: »
    1. read my second post above.
    2. do some more testing with it.
    3. it is AOE.
    4. try to escape with 50 impulse, lol and that on scort with p2w speed console equipped... (as i said evasive or APO get u to 60 impulse all with active epte ofc, yay)
    5. so ure saying -100 acc and -50% dmg is totally fine to not be resistable and being applied to a full team?
    6. it has 2/3rd uptime

    If APO and AtD countered the movement debuff, something I support, you'd escape the 10km without any issues.
    BO3 antiproton with Crtdx4 or higher aren't really fine, Barrage can mitigate a 70k striking beam overload, that's why I'm fine with it. If the movement thing was counterable, there would be no issues with pointing your guns.

    Lets just not nerf SB3 in the "LOL powers" category. It's already a commander ranked ability, you're giving up a lot to use it. Again, if the movement debuff was counterable, the counter to acc and damage debuff would be cleansed in an instant by flying away from the Command ship, and pointing your guns elsewhere. Easy.
  • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    riccardo171 wrote: »
    If APO and AtD countered the movement debuff, something I support, you'd escape the 10km without any issues.
    BO3 antiproton with Crtdx4 or higher aren't really fine, Barrage can mitigate a 70k striking beam overload, that's why I'm fine with it. If the movement thing was counterable, there would be no issues with pointing your guns.

    Lets just not nerf SB3 in the "LOL powers" category. It's already a commander ranked ability, you're giving up a lot to use it. Again, if the movement debuff was counterable, the counter to acc and damage debuff would be cleansed in an instant by flying away from the Command ship, and pointing your guns elsewhere. Easy.

    I totally agree with this post.
  • bobosmrade1bobosmrade1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    riccardo171 wrote: »
    BO3 antiproton with Crtdx4 or higher aren't really fine, Barrage can mitigate a 70k striking beam overload

    And that is the real issue here. They can take less maneuverability and getting killed, but not taking away their vaping and having a one for one situation since the "GET IN, BO3, VAPE, ATD, APO, GET OUT UNTIL IT ALL COOLDOWNS" is the only thing working for escorts beside Manasa (oh boy im having wet dreams with Manasa + Voth BC set...)
    Cave Troll vs Forum troll
    Know the difference
    It could save your life...
    rushatsi wrote: »
    pvp? whats dat?
    starwrathforever wrote: »
    Pervert vs. Pervert!:eek:
  • riccardo171riccardo171 Member Posts: 1,802 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    patrickngo wrote: »
    The obvious answer is to make it incompatible with BFAW, and make sure it's supposed to overpower APO.

    I was thinking that it should apply the debuff against the currently selected target, so that FAW won't land SB on everyone.
  • riccardo171riccardo171 Member Posts: 1,802 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    patrickngo wrote: »
    that works too-doesn't another power have the same restriction?

    Dunno what you mean :\

    Just tested SB3 debuff with sharxtreme and parsed it.

    Accuracy bug still exists, and it's been two weeks it has been reported.
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