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I see some old hands are pretty angry...

patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 9,893 Arc User
edited April 2015 in Klingon Discussion
angry enough to get a thread-lock (NO, I won't link to it) after only two posts.

Fair 'nough, I've been than angry about that same subject, and the same topic of said subject, for months.

NOW I'm going to make the counter-argurment.

New Executive Producer.

anyone who's been a production lead, or foreman on a worksite, can tell you that if the boss decides you're wrong, you're going to bite down and accept being wrong, or you're going to find another job.

since D'Angelo was removed as EP, we've seen positive motion from the developers in addressing balancing and game-breaking bugs introduced during his tour.

I'm suspecting the only reason our sole option for a command level ship isn't the Samsar, is because the new EP made a call and made it stick.

This has positive implications for the future-not just of the game, but of the "Minorities" in STO, including the PvP and KDF playerbases.

(whether you like or not, those two are deeply linked in the history of this game, and their fortunes have tended to follow the same trend-lines.)

I'm not saying it's all rare roast targ and bloodwine, but the possibility is there that we've finally got someone who can tell certain single-faction staffers with big mouths "NO, You'll do it THIS way." and make it stick.

and that someone has a decent track record of listening.

If I didn't think this, if I didnt' have this bit of optimism, I wouldn't have begun trying to organize a fan-driven event for the KDF playerbase, and I wouldn't still be trying to organize it, (See the link in the sig).

The positive motivation for working on The Festival of Blood and Fire, is to vitalize the KDF community after more than a year of passive-aggressive neglect and open hostility, slanted mechanics, and an almost sub-audible humm of "Dump your character and play fed".

Which...has, for the moment, at least, maybe stopped.

The Negative motivator is simply this;

Showing the people at Cryptic that we're still here, still strong, maybe stronger than ever, and that we're not going anywhere.

That we're not giving up on the game, not going to be run out or run off, not going to meekly accept being binned off or tossed out.

If you love playing KDF, or loved it, at least, if you want the game to be better, if you want to regain the ground we lost in the D'Angelo period when Gecko ran loose and unchecked...

If you're angry, or if you're bored, if you're new, or old, faithful or cynical...

Hell, the root of why I even started this was anger. Anger put to positive action is defined as Passion.

show your passion, show your anger, show up, show them you're not defeated, that you can not BE defeated-only destroyed.

Make our enemies at Cryptic Stuidios know, they have not defeated us, they will not defeat us.

we're not giving up on this game, and maybe the ones on the fence, maybe even the guys like the new EP, will see that we're a worthwhile market to court, that they gain more working WITH us, than against us.
Post edited by Unknown User on
Nature doesn't HAVE to be nice, or polite.

Free Hong Kong.

«13

Comments

  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    i really hope you are right about the new guy. i really do. i am trying to not be jaded...
    i am fully behind the festival. i cant wait :)
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Can't say I don't understand some of the KDF vets. about their disenchantment, anger, dissapointment....whatever you call it. Hell, I had the same angry reaction when I heard Geko's BS on the topic in that locked thread, even though deep down inside I already knew that - still different when you realize that it's not only your suspicion, but really the way certain minds work, unfortunately. That's why I used the sig that angrytarg was kind enough to make for me, but I decided to put it to rest at least temporarily out of respect for the new EP and my will to give the guy a chance to prove himself.

    I'm with patrickngo about Ricossa, my first impression of him as EP is that he has his head in the right place. Just in comparison, I had the exact oposite feeling when D'Angelo took over a year ago. In addition, after seeing Ricossa in Smirk's last livestream even though he just made a passing appearence to greet us - I can't quite describe how do I get this, but I got the feeling that is't a man that could do good for STO in general.
    I mean, come on, I've heard from D'Angelo a grand total of 3 times during his year as EP - his intorduction, when he accused the entire playerbase of being exploiters and when he was apologizing for that. In comparison - in the month or so since he's EP, I've seen salamiinferno once on a podcast, at least 3 times in-game on Holodeck and multiple times on the forum. So yeah, I'm willing to give Mr.Ricossa a chance here and I have hope. He seems like an ok fellow.

    As for the "angry" vets - I'd like to support and extend that invitation to the 'Festival of Blood and Fire'. You guys have every right to be angry and dissapointed, but for what it's worth and for the passion you obviously still have for this faction - I'd like to see all of you there. You are the people that in a way "built" the red faction and the KDF community and are an integral part of what the KDF is, was and will be. If you still have STO on your hard drives, come for the odd story of battle, a barrel of bloodwine and the best gagh you'll ever taste. :D

    P.S. The silver lining in the locked thred is that they're actually paying attention to the KDF section of the forum - so there's hope that the issues, bugs and wishes we're reporting are at least being noticed, for what it's worth. :)
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • zipagatzipagat Member Posts: 1,204 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    shpoks wrote: »
    Can't say I don't understand some of the KDF vets. about their disenchantment, anger, dissapointment....whatever you call it. Hell, I had the same angry reaction when I heard Geko's BS on the topic in that locked thread, even though deep down inside I already knew that - still different when you realize that it's not only your suspicion, but really the way certain minds work, unfortunately. That's why I used the sig that angrytarg was kind enough to make for me, but I decided to put it to rest at least temporarily out of respect for the new EP and my will to give the guy a chance to prove himself.

    I'm with patrickngo about Ricossa, my first impression of him as EP is that he has his head in the right place. Just in comparison, I had the exact oposite feeling when D'Angelo took over a year ago. In addition, after seeing Ricossa in Smirk's last livestream even though he just made a passing appearence to greet us - I can't quite describe how do I get this, but I got the feeling that is't a man that could do good for STO in general.
    I mean, come on, I've heard from D'Angelo a grand total of 3 times during his year as EP - his intorduction, when he accused the entire playerbase of being exploiters and when he was apologizing for that. In comparison - in the month or so since he's EP, I've seen salamiinferno once on a podcast, at least 3 times in-game on Holodeck and multiple times on the forum. So yeah, I'm willing to give Mr.Ricossa a chance here and I have hope. He seems like an ok fellow.

    As for the "angry" vets - I'd like to support and extend that invitation to the 'Festival of Blood and Fire'. You guys have every right to be angry and dissapointed, but for what it's worth and for the passion you obviously still have for this faction - I'd like to see all of you there. You are the people that in a way "built" the red faction and the KDF community and are an integral part of what the KDF is, was and will be. If you still have STO on your hard drives, come for the odd story of battle, a barrel of bloodwine and the best gagh you'll ever taste. :D

    P.S. The silver lining in the locked thred is that they're actually paying attention to the KDF section of the forum - so there's hope that the issues, bugs and wishes we're reporting are at least being noticed, for what it's worth. :)

    Well for what its worth I as a "angry vet" am willing to give our new EP a chance before I go fetch my pitchfork so to speak, though to be fair I stopped being angry a couple of years back and just log in to blow up some feds and don't worry so much about the rest.

    I will say though shpoks you should also consider yourself very much a part of those players who have helped build the KDF community.
  • catliketypingcatliketyping Member Posts: 611
    edited February 2015
    I'm not "old" like some of the others... but I know how it's not easy being red. It causes me to take long breaks every now and then.

    The stupid lack of content does limit my spend, though. I suppose that's a kind of benefit of having practically no support. I'm glad I never spent as much as I wanted to spend on KDF ships with T6 out there now.

    And we have the dil grind in our favor. At least for now, anyway.

    Yes, it sucks, but it's always been this way. A little hope is a dangerous thing, I guess. We've always known where we have stood in the hierarchy.
    Nessia (KDF Sci)
    IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,005 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    where did he make the statement?
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,354 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I dunno if I have earned the title of KDF Veteran or not. I think probably not, though. I rolled up Crell of the House of Jev and never looked back. Spend more time with him than all of my Fed chars combined. Might only be part of the 16%. But this 16% is definitely quality and definitely choice. Despite the numerous letdowns, despite the unkept promises, despite the giving away to the SpoonFeds nearly everything which makes the KDF unique and special, we continue on and are largely successful at keeping up with the pampered and protected mindless minions of Starfleet. Koren's outbursts in Surface Tension as a reply to Tuvok's ramblings struck a chord with me.

    Everything given to Starfleet and they still cannot send reinforcements or fight well enough that an NPC has to do their dirty work for them?

    Salamiinferno seems like a breath of fresh air after InvisiEP. I am more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. As I see it though, he has the same handicap D'Stahl and InvisiEP had: Geko is still here. C'mon, pwe! Isn't it time STO had someone as Lead Design who actually enjoys Star Trek?
    Nope. It ain't Discovery. It ain't Picard. It's not SNW, either.
    It's your obsessive-compulsive belief that you are the only 'real' Star Trek fan around here.
  • jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    patrickngo wrote: »

    I'm suspecting the only reason our sole option for a command level ship isn't the Samsar, is because the new EP made a call and made it stick.

    My profession is not in IT or software development, but I would have to say that releasing starships for STO takes quite a bit of development time. Therefore, it is my gut feeling that the Command Cruisers have been in development while D'Angelo was still the EP for STO.


    Since I have only played STO for about 13 months I am not a KDF vet, but I am rather disappointed about the near lack of attention devoted the KDF and Romulan factions. I just hope that over time the disparity between the Fed faction and the KDF / Romulan factions will diminish to a certain extent. Bug fixes and new ships would help. T6 Raiders and T6 Science Vessels would be a much welcomed and appreciated addition to the KDF and Romulan factions.
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited March 2015
    As long is the kdf is separated from the Feds they will never grow beyond where they are

    Most Feds have no idea how good it is how many perks the kdf has and are unwilling to try because they cant see it

    Its much worse now because of how long it takes to make a new character and how gated characters are with the extra 50 to 60 time gate

    mix in the lack of teaming by being a kdf because Qs don't pop and that's the biggest turn off a lot of new players see first thing and go back to their feds

    in my opinion the kdf will never move past where they are if they are kept separate from the Feds

    The bribes to play kdf haven't worked nor will they
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jellico1 wrote: »
    As long is the kdf is separated from the Feds they will never grow beyond where they are

    Most Feds have no idea how good it is how many perks the kdf has and are unwilling to try because they cant see it

    Its much worse now because of how long it takes to make a new character and how gated characters are with the extra 50 to 60 time gate

    mix in the lack of teaming by being a kdf because Qs don't pop and that's the biggest turn off a lot of new players see first thing and go back to their feds

    in my opinion the kdf will never move past where they are if they are kept separate from the Feds

    The bribes to play kdf haven't worked nor will they

    it cant be expected when the 'bribes' are continually made cross-faction.
    im also not a fan of cross-faction queues. i can definitely tell a difference when pubbing on a full kdf team rather than a team with 3 or 4 feds on it, and i think anyone that claims otherwise is delusional. even a pub team with 2 kdf are pretty 'different' ;) and from my perspective, the kdf team is one of the biggest advantages of the faction. i think a better solution is to simply allow cross faction teaming, that way those kdf that want to pollute their team with feds can, but fed teammates arent forced on all of us.
  • coldicephoenixcoldicephoenix Member Posts: 344 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jellico1 wrote: »
    As long is the kdf is separated from the Feds they will never grow beyond where they are

    Most Feds have no idea how good it is how many perks the kdf has and are unwilling to try because they cant see it

    Its much worse now because of how long it takes to make a new character and how gated characters are with the extra 50 to 60 time gate

    mix in the lack of teaming by being a kdf because Qs don't pop and that's the biggest turn off a lot of new players see first thing and go back to their feds

    in my opinion the kdf will never move past where they are if they are kept separate from the Feds

    The bribes to play kdf haven't worked nor will they

    Sometimes it fascinates me that people play as Fed and are off gallivanting around the galaxy vaporizing people. Its fun at first but then you realize you are playing a Federation captain and most of it makes no sense if you are a trek fan. Its one of the reasons I now solely play KDF or Romulan. Atleast when they vaporize people it makes canon-sense!

    And then there's BoPs. How can one even ignore the allure of these freaking amazing flying silent killers baffles me!! :D I even got a B'rel on my work desk which I play with when I think no ones looking! ;)

    Still waiting on the t6 BoP tho....
    i can definitely tell a difference when pubbing on a full kdf team rather than a team with 3 or 4 feds on it, and i think anyone that claims otherwise is delusional. even a pub team with 2 kdf are pretty 'different' ;) and from my perspective, the kdf team is one of the biggest advantages of the faction.
    This I agree with. I know when I pug and see some KDF warp in as well the pugs gonna go a lot smoother.

    We still live!!!!! Hahahahahahahahaa! We live and we will conquer!!!!! Hahahahahaaha!

    -Roach, when asked about Klingon extinction!
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,893 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    it cant be expected when the 'bribes' are continually made cross-faction.
    im also not a fan of cross-faction queues. i can definitely tell a difference when pubbing on a full kdf team rather than a team with 3 or 4 feds on it, and i think anyone that claims otherwise is delusional. even a pub team with 2 kdf are pretty 'different' ;) and from my perspective, the kdf team is one of the biggest advantages of the faction. i think a better solution is to simply allow cross faction teaming, that way those kdf that want to pollute their team with feds can, but fed teammates arent forced on all of us.

    I might be delusional, but I do claim that is not the case. KDF players aren't "better" or "more dedicated" or "more hardcore" and it would help if people would not adopt and scatter this mindset around. When people want to play a Klingon they will choose KDF, if people want to play Starfleet (which are most new players) they will choose Starfleet. It might be that due to the smaller population KDF site you don't get to play with so many fresh ones, but the inherent "skill" of every player is the same to begin with.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    angrytarg wrote: »
    I might be delusional, but I do claim that is not the case. KDF players aren't "better" or "more dedicated" or "more hardcore" and it would help if people would not adopt and scatter this mindset around. When people want to play a Klingon they will choose KDF, if people want to play Starfleet (which are most new players) they will choose Starfleet. It might be that due to the smaller population KDF site you don't get to play with so many fresh ones, but the inherent "skill" of every player is the same to begin with.

    i didnt argue the 'why', i simply pointed out that a pugs chance of failure is directly proportional to the number of feds on the team. i dont see how that small kernel can be disputed.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,893 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    i didnt argue the 'why', i simply pointed out that a pugs chance of failure is directly proportional to the number of feds on the team. i dont see how that small kernel can be disputed.

    I'm not sure if you can calculate a "chance of failure" going by which faction the players are in. At least I cannot see any difference since the factions are virtually identical in the current state of the game and the only factor differing are visuals.
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Used to be, the KDF was someone's second character-they made all their mistakes on their (at the time, required) Fed.

    (...)

    I can only say that I think you are putting way too much into this. In every MMO I have played there are always "camps" forming, claiming that one or the other faction attracts a certain "kind" of player more and thus is superior to another one. I personally do not think this is a healthy mindset for a community and only leads to more struggle, but that's not the point. I don't see there are objective differences between the factions.

    In your reasoning you are basically suggesting that the KDF is almost completely made up of the old, battle hardened and wise veterans who mastered the game waaaay back in the days when they brought their fed character to lvl 20 (or 25?). I personally cannot see what you are portraying, but that maybe just me :)
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Sometimes it fascinates me that people play as Fed and are off gallivanting around the galaxy vaporizing people. Its fun at first but then you realize you are playing a Federation captain and most of it makes no sense if you are a trek fan. Its one of the reasons I now solely play KDF or Romulan. Atleast when they vaporize people it makes canon-sense!

    This is sooo true for me as well. One of the main reasons I've been a KDF main and I enjoy the faction - as a long-time Star Trek fan, the red faction makes more sense to me in terms of the core gameplay of this game. Even with all the regurgitated missions and the latest batch where some Federation petaQ is giving me the missions. The core is blow stuff up and while I apreciate that this happened throughout TV Trek as well, it was never on this scale and it was never without many other elements of the adventure.

    I do play Federation characters, sometimes I like the change of scenery and sometimes I'm just in a Picard or Krik mood and want to fly a white ship with a round saucer. But man, it's hard sometimes - I have a Starfleet science character that I write "Captain's Logs" on before and after mission, just for the sake of fun, immersion, etc.....a couple of days ago I found myself in a situation after writing one of those where I asked myself wheather I really want to continue doing that, because looking back at what I wrote not only in that last one, but in the ones that lead up to it - no matter how much I RP-ed and tried to sugarcone it, it still boiled down to >this<. The gameplay is just too awkward for a Starfleet character played by a Star Trek fan, at least to me.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,354 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I don't think people are implying the players who play Klingon exclusively are better than the rest due to having played the game far longer. I know I do not think so.

    But there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to support this idea.

    I happen to be one of those required to level to 25 as a Fed before being allowed to play Klingon. I am quite sure I am not one of the top STO players. Nor do I have any interest in becoming so. This is a game, not a lifestyle choice. Nor should it become one. What I do know is I play well. Due to having a large amount of experience with the game. I generally don't make rookie or foolish mistakes. Such as placing a Grav Well onto a Generator or Gate in Infected Space. Or using TBR on Nanite Spheres just as someone is about to BFAW them.

    Until the KDF side was fleshed out, I generally trusted someone flying a Negh'var far more than I did someone flying an Oddy. Even now, with people being able to start at lvl 1 with a Klink, I tend to at least give them the benefit of the doubt.

    It does take a certain mindset to play KDF. Not superior, just different. And part of this mindset is a willingness to continue playing within the restrictions and limitations imposed by the design of the game and its direction. I see the same thing whenever I play Napoleonic miniatures and my club is playing the battle of Waterloo. The appeal of playing the French and winning is quite an ego booster.

    What about the uniforms? Yeah, I'll admit it. Sometimes when I am very bored I do the Space Barbie thing in between setting up DOff missions. Bortasqu, Intel, Kobali. Which of these is faction specific? How many faction specific uniforms does Starfleet have? Would it kill pwe/cryptic to release a Dahar Master coat for the KDF? Would most of the KDF players I know purchase one from the Z Store? I think we already know the answers to these questions.

    Can I carry my share of an STF? Yes. Do most of the KDF players I know meet the same criteria. Sure do. Can the same be said of the majority of Starfleet players? I am uncertain. But think hard for a second. When was the last time you saw a KDF Rainbow Failboat?

    Please note I am not disparaging players who are exclusively Starfleet. I strongly suspect most of them are like me. Nor are there procedures and policies which disallow numbnuts from playing KDF. But since the majority of the players in this game are Fed, the dummies they do have are also more numerous. This is due to proportion, not quality of the faction. Because they are more numerous they are more noticed by more people.

    I prefer playing KDF. Almost exclusively. My experience in STO is generally far more satisfying whenever I do so. I have more fun more often. I play longer. I try harder to help out someone new to the game or the faction. To the point of buying Z Store items for them if they cannot do so for themselves. And my experience with other KDF players so far is their mindset is similar to mine.
    Nope. It ain't Discovery. It ain't Picard. It's not SNW, either.
    It's your obsessive-compulsive belief that you are the only 'real' Star Trek fan around here.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,893 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    (...)
    I happen to be one of those required to level to 25 as a Fed before being allowed to play Klingon. I am quite sure I am not one of the top STO players. Nor do I have any interest in becoming so. This is a game, not a lifestyle choice. Nor should it become one. What I do know is I play well. Due to having a large amount of experience with the game. I generally don't make rookie or foolish mistakes. Such as placing a Grav Well onto a Generator or Gate in Infected Space. Or using TBR on Nanite Spheres just as someone is about to BFAW them.(...)

    I would say I am the same. Only reason I bought STO was to play a Klingon, originally. However

    It does take a certain mindset to play KDF. Not superior, just different. And part of this mindset is a willingness to continue playing within the restrictions and limitations imposed by the design of the game and its direction. I see the same thing whenever I play Napoleonic miniatures and my club is playing the battle of Waterloo. The appeal of playing the French and winning is quite an ego booster. (...)

    I cannot be the only one who thinks this "myth" about a faction appealing or drawing in certain characters is bollocks, can I? I know it is a widespread believe and I see "forum rp" and "faction wars" that extend over PvP in other games as well. But seriously? And if it would be true that KDF does appeal to "more aggressive warrior types" shouldn't Fed player then be educated, enlightened, peaceful diplomats?

    I do have my roles and styles of gameplay that I consider more comfortable but those are vastly different. When I play an Elder Scrolls game, I usually have a Paladin-esque white knight, a shadowy, neutral agent and thief, a ferocious Witchhunter and a Werewolf-Barbarian or Vampire Lord - all of them. When I played W.O.W I had my dwarven hunter and my tauren shaman and when I play STO I play my Tac Klingon (that I still hope can be a Targ handler one day), my Starfleet human engineer, my Starfleet cait scientist and my Deferi crew which I specifically decided to play on the KDF site. And none of this probably reflects anything meaningful about my "character". So what is this thing about the need to "group" oneself with others in a "us against them" mindset?
    I prefer playing KDF. Almost exclusively. My experience in STO is generally far more satisfying whenever I do so. I have more fun more often. I play longer. I try harder to help out someone new to the game or the faction. To the point of buying Z Store items for them if they cannot do so for themselves. And my experience with other KDF players so far is their mindset is similar to mine.

    I do understand when people prefer one or the other, but these claims about show of character are to my experience and in my opinion just made up. Of course STO does not reflect how a "Starfleet simulator" would be but I don't feel the Klingons are much better off to be honest, since there's more about Klingons than fight like orcs all the time. And even my Klingon Marshal often enough has to shake his head about the decisions the game forces upon me. So I came to the conclusion that STO as a whole is already from it's very basic design decision unable to do Star Trek justice in any way shape or form. It's a hack & slay MMO with little accompanying story, a shooting galery and I can enjoy this regardless of which colour my UI has. What I headcanon and RP with myself is almost completely independent from what is happening on screen anyway :D

    Wether or not there is more hospitality on the KDF side I honestly cannot say after years in STO. I met some decent people and they usually play across the board. I never was treated differently by any faction or with any faction I played.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,893 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    patrickngo wrote: »
    DID NOT mean to come off as that, specifically.

    More along the lines of looking at why someone would choose to main a faction that gets the short-end year after year after year, has at times been outpaced by the FNG faction both in development and powercreep, has been openly derided and mocked by the Lead Developer of the game...

    It almost has to be a different sort than the ones that flock to do what everyone else is doing because it's "more Popular", or "Better Supported".

    I can only speak for myself in everything I type out here, of course. But I play KDF when I like to play KDF and FED when I like to play FED. Cryptics support of this game is terrible for every single individual player, regardless of faction. Don't get me wrong, I know full and well that KDF gets the short end, I am not oblivious to the fact which I regularily voice through different signatures for example, though due to recent events I have for the moment removed every kind of display of discontent I have for the game or with it's developers.

    But generally I do not understand why the mindset of a lead designer or a limited choice of items should influence my choice of faction in any way.
    Looked at from a "Useful game mechanics" perspective, KDF gets shafted 9 out of 10 times before the button to queue is clicked, but in performance?

    I see where you are coming from, but technically all the consoles up to T4 have been made cross-faction available. They are more expensive on the KDF side due to smaller numbers, that is true, but that doesn't inherently "shaft" the KDF. There have been questionable design decisions regarding T6 traits, I give you that - but T6 in general has been a horrifying disaster in general.
    THIS doesn't HAPPEN if there's another KDF on the instance-it only happens with 4 feds 1 KDF.

    same happens with Khitomer. 3 Feds clearing probes or running to the other end of the map, or some combination of those, while I'm hammering the gate-they don't show up again unless I
    • slip up and die with a cube in the air
    • slip up and die with a string of probes
    • Or, they crack the structures on the other side before I'm done.

    I'm no "DPS MASTAH", I run BoPs, occasionally if I'm working a new alt over fifty, I might have a Mat'Ha, or Qib...

    but usually BoPs-and the best you can get with those is T5U.

    I mean, I could follow everybody to one side, and by the time the second transformer's down, they're either all trying to do probes, or half are doing probes and the other two have crossed the map.

    doesn't happen with another KDF on the team, but it DOES happen more often than it reasonably should, if I'm the only one.

    extrapolating to this being not just ME...(and it turns out it isn't just me) the only outcome I can come to, is that in Feddieland, we must be pretty darn scary-at least by reputation.

    and if this kind of thing is consistent, then maybe that IS the cause (and effect) of that reputatoin.

    I personally would suspect that this is due to selective perception on your end. I at least cannot say that I have observed or experienced any difference in treatment from or towards other players in four years. But if you play your part in building up such a mindset and often enough repeat terms like "us" and "them" I have no doubts that this sentiment grows stronger.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,354 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Since we're slicing and dicing today... :D
    angrytarg wrote: »
    I cannot be the only one who thinks this "myth" about a faction appealing or drawing in certain characters is bollocks, can I? I know it is a widespread belief and I see "forum rp" and "faction wars" that extend over PvP in other games as well. But seriously? And if it would be true that KDF does appeal to "more aggressive warrior types" shouldn't Fed player then be educated, enlightened, peaceful diplomats?

    Can you offer conclusive proof this 'myth' is bollocks? I stated an opinion. One based upon nearly forty years' worth of personal experience playing all types of military simulation and fantasy role playing, console, and computer games. With all types of gamers from around the world. Both via the Internet and in person.
    angrytarg wrote: »
    I do have my roles and styles of gameplay that I consider more comfortable but those are vastly different. When I play an Elder Scrolls game, I usually have a Paladin-esque white knight, a shadowy, neutral agent and thief, a ferocious Witchhunter and a Werewolf-Barbarian or Vampire Lord - all of them. When I played W.O.W I had my dwarven hunter and my tauren shaman and when I play STO I play my Tac Klingon (that I still hope can be a Targ handler one day), my Starfleet human engineer, my Starfleet cait scientist and my Deferi crew which I specifically decided to play on the KDF site. And none of this probably reflects anything meaningful about my "character". So what is this thing about the need to "group" oneself with others in a "us against them" mindset?

    They do indeed show something meaningful about one's personality. Since a game avatar is a highly personalized version of how we wish to appear to others. Or a part of ourselves we wish to explore and express. Granted, some of them emphasize heavily a particular aspect of our personality. But they still show a side of ourselves most keep hidden even from themselves. And it is a natural tendency to want to associate with others of a similar mindset.
    angrytarg wrote: »
    I do understand when people prefer one or the other, but these claims about show of character are to my experience and in my opinion just made up. Of course STO does not reflect how a "Starfleet simulator" would be but I don't feel the Klingons are much better off to be honest, since there's more about Klingons than fight like orcs all the time. And even my Klingon Marshal often enough has to shake his head about the decisions the game forces upon me. So I came to the conclusion that STO as a whole is already from it's very basic design decision unable to do Star Trek justice in any way shape or form. It's a hack & slay MMO with little accompanying story, a shooting gallery and I can enjoy this regardless of which colour my UI has. What I headcanon and RP with myself is almost completely independent from what is happening on screen anyway :D

    So now I am confused a bit. Are you still speaking about KDF players or your dislike of the direction the game has taken?
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Whether or not there is more hospitality on the KDF side I honestly cannot say after years in STO. I met some decent people and they usually play across the board. I never was treated differently by any faction or with any faction I played.

    My opinion is there are a lot more problem children on the Fed side than the KDF simply because the Fed population base is much larger. And back when I started playing STO, it was a relief to see four other Klingons drop out of warp into any of the STFs. Simply because requiring someone to level a Fed char to 25 prior to them being able to join the KDF meant they hadn't signed on and leveled up since yesterday back then. I can still see some of this. Not as strong as it used to be, but it is still here.

    BTW, thanks for participating with a different viewpoint without resorting to name calling or getting angry or being like any of the usual InterWebs denizens. Nice to have an intelligent conversation with another adult mind about how we disagree. Far too little of this around here.
    Nope. It ain't Discovery. It ain't Picard. It's not SNW, either.
    It's your obsessive-compulsive belief that you are the only 'real' Star Trek fan around here.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,893 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Since we're slicing and dicing today... :D

    I just figured it's easier to read this way, but I start to regret my decision as the effort to write a posting grows :D


    Can you offer conclusive proof this 'myth' is bollocks? I stated an opinion. One based upon nearly forty years' worth of personal experience playing all types of military simulation and fantasy role playing, console, and computer games. With all types of gamers from around the world. Both via the Internet and in person.

    No, of course I can't. I am but a Targ speaking from experience like all of us (well, maybe not the Targ part). But based on that I just took the liberty of calling it a 'myth' :D

    They do indeed show something meaningful about one's personality. Since a game avatar is a highly personalized version of how we wish to appear to others. Or a part of ourselves we wish to explore and express. Granted, some of them emphasize heavily a particular aspect of our personality. But they still show a side of ourselves most keep hidden even from themselves. And it is a natural tendency to want to associate with others of a similar mindset.

    I disagree. I mean I do think that my own personality does influence the characters I pay to a certain degree as I want the character to appear in a way that suits me or which I find appropriate. But other than that when I do play a character I play a character and that doesn't have to have my own personal beliefs and morals which is the fun in playing a role. That doesn't mean however that I feel a tendency to associate myself with those playing a similiar role - maybe with the people playing to begin with, that may be true.

    So now I am confused a bit. Are you still speaking about KDF players or your dislike of the direction the game has taken?

    Both, actually. Well, it depends. Well, I may have gotten a bit off the track. But essentially I wanted to point out that the game in general doesn't do a good job at portraying any faction in my opinion which kinda debunks the "STO is meant for Klingons because of pew pew".

    My opinion is there are a lot more problem children on the Fed side than the KDF simply because the Fed population base is much larger. And back when I started playing STO, it was a relief to see four other Klingons drop out of warp into any of the STFs. Simply because requiring someone to level a Fed char to 25 prior to them being able to join the KDF meant they hadn't signed on and leveled up since yesterday back then. I can still see some of this. Not as strong as it used to be, but it is still here.


    I get the "math" behind the statement but I still cannot say I experienced similiar. Even back in the days getting to 25 wasn't that much of a deal to justify that one made all errors fedside already, as the regular gameplay did even then not prepare for PvP or the STFs at all.
    BTW, thanks for participating with a different viewpoint without resorting to name calling or getting angry or being like any of the usual InterWebs denizens. Nice to have an intelligent conversation with another adult mind about how we disagree. Far too little of this around here.

    No problem, I guess. I feel there is no need for this discussion to get heated even in the slightest :)
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • catliketypingcatliketyping Member Posts: 611
    edited March 2015
    Can we just agree that BoPs are OP?
    :D

    Met plenty of helpful & nice people on Starfleet side when I have played Starfleet. STO is very alt-unfriendly now, though, so there's zero point in playing Starfleet anymore, even if Starfleet Online is a Starfleet game (and always has been).

    The thing is: Nothing that Starfleet has can match a B'rel. I don't care what shiny they get... they don't have a B'rel. If they had a B'rel (...but Kirk!) then I probably would have switched over long ago.

    The Romulan T'varo comes close or eclipses it in some ways, but the B'rel is the superior ship for me as a Sci Captain. And the T'varo doesn't come with Flanking, which makes positioning actually worth something at times (even if STF fights = bunch of Cruisers parked in orbit around something, not caring about your Flanking at all).

    Of course, for me, "relief" in STF usually means Scimitars. As stupidly OP as BFAW is these days, some Starfleet Cruiser bus drivers can't seem to mash BFAW the right way or something. Seeing a ton of Starfleet T6 Cruisers is far from a guarantee of anything compared to Scimitars or KDF.
    Nessia (KDF Sci)
    IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
  • branmakmorrnbranmakmorrn Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    patrickngo wrote: »
    angry enough to get a thread-lock (NO, I won't link to it) after only two posts.

    Hello, there. One of the angriest of the old hands, here. Although many of you might not know me, I had at one point in the remote past (years ago) several communiques with the two other hands in the mentioned thread and have had some . . . moderated threads of my own.

    Suffice to say, I was in STO during OBeta, played regularly for the first two years (I had 14 KDF toons, level 50-55), then off and on again for a few more. The last time I played was shortly after LoR (although I did not purchase that bit of content).

    I have not played in such a long time, for three reasons:
    1: Lack of PVP support
    2: Lack of KDF-specific content and KDF support
    3: The Romulan faction not being an entirely stand-alone faction (as it very well should be)

    That being said, I had intended to stop by the Nimoy monument in-game to pay my respects (however Gorn pay their respects) and when I saw this thread I thought I might swing by for the festival as well. I was never really a fan of DStahl (or the way he and PWI handled the KDF), I don't think I played much when D'Angelo was the EP (well, maybe the first go-round when Stahl was on sabbatical) but I think maybe if others think the new EP might be willing to listen, I might as well show up and scream.

    Now, a few questions:

    1: There has been mention of a particular dev's comments in regards to the future of KDF development. Would someone be so kind as to share with me a link to some media pertaining to said comments? Please and thank you.

    2: What (if any) KDF-specific content has been released post-LoR?

    3: Delta Rising. How fitting is the content to the KDF playstyle? Does it make sense or does it play like typical re-skinned Fed content?

    Again, thanks in advance. See you the 14th.
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited March 2015
    My KDF has

    honorable warrior.....Superior ground trait Feds got nothing to match it
    Disruptor..................Much better than phasers
    Flanking damage.............Duh............like wow
    Pirates BOs...............Indeed

    Now also you don't have 95% of the population joining the faction with their first characters

    Its not all skill on the kdf side...not by a long shot
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jellico1 wrote: »
    My KDF has

    honorable warrior.....Superior ground trait Feds got nothing to match it
    Disruptor..................Much better than phasers
    Flanking damage.............Duh............like wow
    Pirates BOs...............Indeed

    Now also you don't have 95% of the population joining the faction with their first characters

    Its not all skill on the kdf side...not by a long shot

    Ok then...let's see...

    1. That may be a good ground trait, but you are really grasping at straws with it. Most people who seem to REALLY min-max a dedicated ground character are probably going to do one of two things (most likely): They will either make that character an alien for the extra trait that they can choose, OR they will make a cat.

    2. ANYONE can use disruptors. There's no major advantages that any KDF character can get by using them except for synergy with certain things. Though I will concede that Elite Disruptors are much better than Elite Phasers, though I'd in turn argue that both aren't that great compared to how weapons can be now with the crafting system.

    3. Flanking...on ships that are on the whole inferior to a vast majority of other ships in terms of raw stats. PLUS there are cross-faction raiders anyone can use. I'm not saying that you can't make flanking work, just that the game doesn't really support it.

    4. Nausicaans are nice. But any Fed can get at least one from the Diplomacy reward. Which if you get a non-tac ones, can be a good supplement to Embassy BOFFs for non-Rom characters.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I have not played in such a long time, for three reasons:
    1: Lack of PVP support
    2: Lack of KDF-specific content and KDF support
    3: The Romulan faction not being an entirely stand-alone faction (as it very well should be)

    Unfortunately, I'd have to inform you that:

    1. PvP is currently completely broken, even totally unplayable. The PvP population has experienced (maybe only temporarily) an exodus of players since Delta Rising. The ones that are left try to organize channels and do PvP without the new brokenly OP and unbalanced T6 ships. PvP support is non-existant currently IMHO.
    We'll see if some changes happen under the new EP, in the first 2 patches since he's in charge they've made some serious balance passes so maybe all is not lost just yet.

    2. Truthfully, there's no new specific content in STO anymore. Their orientation has completely gone into the cross-faction direction. Unless, like an old dev a while ago, you consider ships to be content. :D In terms of ships, which are about the only specific thing factions get lately, the KDF has been doing better than before and we've seen some continious shipments of new ships even though not in the same quantities as the Federation faction.

    3. The Romulan faction will never be a stand alone faction. The lead designer stated that they made peace between the factions so they won't have to make KDF exclusive content anymore, so you can see how that bodes for the
    f(r)action that is not a faction in becomming a true faction.

    Now, a few questions:

    1: There has been mention of a particular dev's comments in regards to the future of KDF development. Would someone be so kind as to share with me a link to some media pertaining to said comments? Please and thank you.

    2: What (if any) KDF-specific content has been released post-LoR?

    3: Delta Rising. How fitting is the content to the KDF playstyle? Does it make sense or does it play like typical re-skinned Fed content?

    Again, thanks in advance. See you the 14th.

    1. I can't because I don't remember where it was and I don't have the link, but I'm sure someone else will. :o

    2. None. Unless you consider ships content. What the KDF as faction has received since LoR is the following:

    - Mogh Battlecruiser
    - DSD ships 3-pack
    - Mat'Ha Raptor
    - Qib Intel Battlecruiser
    - Command ships 3-pack
    - Buffs to Birds of Prey
    - Flanking mechanic for Birds of Prey
    - Mr.Michael Dorn's VO work as Worf for all the KDF missions that were released with LoR as well as any other older KDF missions his character was a part of

    (I might be missing sth., but I think that's about it)

    3. None. Everything in Delta Rising is cross-faction. It makes very little sense to the KDF playstyle, but then again - it doesn't really shine in terms of typical Fed playstyle either. It's kind of a mush. There are a couple of missions that will make you cringe in the role of a KDF warrior.

    I hope things will change under the new EP, it's a wait and see now. Maybe things will turn for the better.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    rabble rabble rabble rabble.

    qaStaHvIS tob qagh.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • aceofspades99999aceofspades99999 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Iv'e played STO for 5 years and finally quit playing this nightmare the other day. After careful observation, i'm under the impression that STO fans enjoy getting kicked in the balls about every 6 months, am i wrong? I luv the game but untill they get rid of geko i could care less who they bring in as EP. Live long and suck it Geko:)
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