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Sector Space Revamp

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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    one curious question, about the dyson sphere. that place is still divided into sectors? or will the walls drop out there and get to see different areas of combat further out as far as the safe zone? but this would mean placing alliance ships, turrets and other things inside the minefield area. as well as adding a few random ships disengage from the middle voth fighting to head through the mines.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • stherosthero Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Question: Why is the Vulcan sector in the Beta quadrant??? :confused:
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  • themetalstickmanthemetalstickman Member Posts: 1,010 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Ok so I just went on Tribble to check it out.

    Words fail me. Sincere congratulations to tacofangs and anyone who was involved in this. I can't exactly describe it, you'll have to login to Tribble to see for yourselves.

    Seriously, the new Sector Space is game-changing.
    Og12TbC.jpg

    Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.

    I dare you to do better.
  • scififan78scififan78 Member Posts: 1,383 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    sthero wrote: »
    Question: Why is the Vulcan sector in the Beta quadrant??? :confused:

    Because that is where it belongs. Anything to the "right" of Earth is Beta and anything to the "left" is Alpha.
  • eristhevortaeristhevorta Member Posts: 1,049 Bug Hunter
    edited February 2015
    First of all, let me say that I do like this new update, it was about time to add iconic locations to the map such as Betazed, Tellar, Ferenginar and more. Of course now everybuddy would like to see new missions or social maps being installed later in this year for these new planets. Ever wanted to kiss the Grand Nagus's stick or visit the statue of the legendary Ambassador Lwaxana Troi on Betazed? Now chances might rise a lot ... lolies. ^^

    However ...

    I do have a few questions flying around in my mind: Where did the fluidic space (Pelia Sector) actually go? Why is part of the Delta Quadrant now in the upper right corner of the Beta Quadrant (what used to be the Gamma Orionis end-game area)? And ... wasn't Earth in the Alpha Quadrant as the central hub of Starfleet and now it's in the Beta Quadrant? Maybe I'm wrung, butt the TV shows almeowst never talked about the Beta Quadrant, only about Alpha.

    A few suggestions from my side: Could you purrhaps move the fluidic space and four Borg sectors to the Delta Quadrant? That would make the Delta Quadrant portion almost double as large as it is now and it would have a more rectangular shape instead of a "snickers-bar" shape.

    The rest looks really good actually, not much need to change anything. Overall, a good jub, really!

    ~ Eris The Vorta
    "Everything about the Jham'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris
    Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
  • mrlailmrlail Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    sounds great but can I expect more lag ?
  • thutmosis85thutmosis85 Member Posts: 2,358 Arc User
    edited February 2015

    I do have a few questions flying around in my mind: Where did the fluidic space (Pelia Sector) actually go? Why is part of the Delta Quadrant now in the upper right corner of the Beta Quadrant (what used to be the Gamma Orionis end-game area)? And ... wasn't Earth in the Alpha Quadrant as the central hub of Starfleet and now it's in the Beta Quadrant? Maybe I'm wrung, butt the TV shows almeowst never talked about the Beta Quadrant, only about Alpha.

    Both questions have been answered within this Thread :
    tacofangs wrote: »

    And yes, the Gamma Orionis sector Block would technically be like 4 or 5 sectors further south of our Beta Quadrant map. We couldn't extend down that far. However, the content located there mostly didn't need to be located there. We had to move Cestus to the wrong location, but Kessik and the sectors have been renamed so they make more sense where they are now.
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Sol is still roughly where it has always been, on the Beta side. There was no elegant way to put it on both sides of the line, so we stuck with precedent.

    -> SOL is an important part of the "Beta-Quadrant" Storyline (same as Vega) ... so I guess it's easier that way ... besides it was always on the edge between Alpha & Beta ...
    Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
  • finsches123finsches123 Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I used to hope we would one day see the Gorn homeworld, which would be to the right of the Gamma Orionis block, way "south"/rimward of Omega Leonis. Are we ever going to see it now? Will you put it wherever it fits in case you add it? Just curious.
  • starshutter2starshutter2 Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Stop!!!
    You can't do this!
    Because Leonard Nimoy!
    How about his voise at first visit every sector blocks?
  • thutmosis85thutmosis85 Member Posts: 2,358 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Stop!!!
    You can't do this!
    Because Leonard!
    How about his voise at first visit every sector blocks?

    His Voiceover-Work is still there ... already been answered multiple times ... the "Sectors" still exist, they just don't have "Borders" anymore ...
    Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
  • darthpostaldarthpostal Member Posts: 245 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I'm a bit pessimistic and expect all kinds of bugs after such a fundamental change.

    Still, this must be done. The amount of loading screens is way too high in STO. This is a good first step to reduce it.

    I hope the second step will be an option to go directly to ground map from sector space map (and the other way around), skipping the useless planet space map.
  • starshutter2starshutter2 Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    His Voiceover-Work is still there ... already been answered multiple times ... the "Sectors" still exist, they just don't have "Borders" anymore ...

    Then i will agree with this changng :)
    Live longer and prosper!

    P.S. we will meet tonn of bugs :D
  • shevetshevet Member Posts: 1,667 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Well, this looks like an unambiguously good change, so far. (Not least because I'm currently getting disconnected with every second map change, so anything that reduces those is fine by me.)
    8b6YIel.png?1
  • laro1984laro1984 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Looks wonderful and a really good idea :) but yeah there is always a but first could you stop using gifs? i was clicking on the new map and got one its not so nice when you try to read all the systems and they are gone because next picture ... and second i see big problems with doffing and the voice overs in sector space :/

    Also one question the Borg Space is behind the Romulan Space how is the Federation able to get there without hurting the neutral zone contract before the empires destruction o.O
  • kagasenseikagasensei Member Posts: 526 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    There is no good solution. Cestus is supposed to be so far off the map it isn't even funny. So. . . where do we put it?

    Can't you simply REMOVE Cestus (for now)? There are no Cryptic mission hooked up to it as of now. Foundry missions that use that door could be moved to another door. Sure, that would require those authors to correct their mission texts, and maybe compromise their mission canon, but that is a rather small prize to pay for not having to move Cestus, a well-known canon-system, somewhere, where absolutely no canon/soft-canon source puts it, not even close. It HAS to be close to Gorn space, anything else would make no sense.

    So, simply remove it, i.e., rename and move it.
  • joel1974joel1974 Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Great news. Since I heard this announcement a few weeks ago, I was excited. Now even more so. I look forward to it when it happens.
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Considering that no input was solicited for this vast project , I'm forced to give my Johnny Come Lately impressions based on a miniscule amount of pics .
    (thus if I get stuff wrong , that's my fault )

    Three things :

    - Back in the day when Sector Space was first first revamped , I suggested that the entrance points to the Exploration Clusters be marked by unique background elements that could be recognised as you flew past them (like waymarker posts) , thus giving you a general sensation of where you were in sector space without relying on a map .
    Thus if X is to my left , I'm on the right heading to Y .

    Another recognizable "waymarker posts" currently implemented is the Tau Dewa sector's Azure Nebula .
    On the other side of that scale , the Delta Quadrant is a bit over done with too many nebula's crammed into such a small space .

    However , with the opening of the sector blocks , this would be an opportunity to add a few more of these "waymarker posts" , as we will no longer pass by entrances to Exploration Clusters ,thus it will be harder to get that feeling of "ahh , there's X , I'm going in the right direction" -- which is an innate feeling all (or most) drivers / pilots / sea navigators feel , and this feeling should be replicated when flying minutes at a time through the darkness of Sector Space .

    Again , plz don't over do it like in the DQ, but you can put , nebulas , or space stations , or perhaps a remnant of a star system or asteroid fields . As is , there are a particular low number of space stations in game , as in Trek they numbered by a over a hundred by the 24th century . Another idea is "Fleet XX" as a stationary or fleet exercise , just like we have the New Romulan Fleet in TD. Or space relay antennas ? I can go on with the ideas ... :) .

    - My second comment kind of relates to the first (perhaps in an illustrative manner) .
    By the pics you've posted , here's what I'm looking at :

    Klingon sector view background
    and
    Romulan sector view background

    Through looking at the background alone , can you spot where you are in general ?
    Let me save you the trouble -- no , you can't tell if you are in Romulan or Klingon space .
    Why ?
    Because you reused the texture , the shading and coloring .
    Don't wait for the 3rd sector space revamp , fix this now please .
    Tell me , through a visual differentiation of the background where I am , without the aid of the Astrometric View .

    - And my last comment has to do with what others have requested as well , and that is to have the Nexus Ribbon fly through sector space , and have some interaction with player ships it encounters .
    That interaction can be the momentary engagement of the tech that you use to visually simulate "Ionic Turbulence" and apply it to any ship that it touches / pass through it .
    Ships that are in Transwarp may be immune due to the physics that exist in a Transwarp tunnel , and ships that are in motion should resume their course after no longer being in contact with the Ribbon .

    Yeah , I know , this is purely a "decorative" idea , but you guys did go so far as to put the Ribbon as a background in Azure Nebula Rescue ... , why not go a step further (if time & budget allows) ?

    That's it from me , you're now welcome to tell me how wrong I am about it all ... . :P
  • mrspidey2mrspidey2 Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    So, you added core Federation worlds AND you adressed the scale to the point where we can actually fly to specific planets?

    Wow! I'm really impressed. Can't wait to get trekking in that new and improved Milky Way.
    2bnb7apx.jpg
  • janus1975janus1975 Member Posts: 739 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Finally got around to reading this, and I am cautiously optimistic. I would even say that this is 'theoretically' impressive.

    Just one request:

    When introducing this massive change, please don't introduce lots of other stuff at the same time? There will likely be teething troubles (for all sorts of reasons which you're aware of) and it's much easier for us as players to identify, and for you to track down, if there has only been one system introduced.

    Thanks and it looks really great!
  • schmedickeschmedicke Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I don't recognize the kdf or romi vessels in the pics. Does anyone know what they are?
  • bannon3bannon3 Member Posts: 379 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    crosis2014 wrote: »
    The total game lag makes this irrelevant

    The UI lag makes for a bad experience

    Your ignoring the player base except for a handful of whiners makes you lackluster developers.

    If you worked for me, you would have learned the phrase...do you want to supersize it?.....months ago.

    Your cash grabbing f2p game is dying, a new map won't help.

    Then why do you waste your time hacking lock boxes to in ships every 5 mins if you hate the game so much? We're on to you,
    In Space, Cryptic cant hear you scream!!!
  • toivatoiva Member Posts: 3,276 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    If I were to pick and choose, I'd put Sol in BOTH Alpha and beta quads.

    That way you could enter it from both quadrants and leave wherever you wanted (default exit near the minimap would stay in Beta q.).




    When it comes to the displacement of Gamma Orionis and Pelia, it actually seems to make a bit more sense. The Borg appear closer to their territory. Kerrat and other warzones would still have to be explained as them rushing through Klingon space before, now it's through Romulan space. And overall, the Borg can appear almost everywhere thanks to their transwarps (even easier with the Undine). And since the Borg cube managed to get to Wolf, they can get pretty much anywhere in STO as well.

    The only problem that Taco already seems to be trying to resolve is the canon systems used in Gamma Orionis and Pelia.



    So overall, me likey (except for the Sol matter).
    TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class.
    Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
    Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.

    Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
  • supaj1m#6776 supaj1m Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    HI tacofangs

    As well as the Geoffrey Madels excellent Star Trek Star Charts book, did you guys have a look at the Stellar Cartography reference library? It has Mandel's 10 HUGE fold out maps that are more detailed and updated.

    It's a real shame that Cetus, Kessik etc had to be moved to the upper right hand corner of Romulan space when really, according to mandel's material Cestus is about 8 sectors directly south of Qo'nos but this is understandable i guess.
  • lithulanlithulan Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    This was teh perfect time to place Feregenar on the map.
    Include a DoF officer exchange for the Ferengi
    Create a new map for Ferengenar & a whole new faction & ships &....
    Shem Ferengi captain, maybe you guessed?
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,540 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Just got done reading the article a second time. Spent a considerable chunk of time just looking at the GIF.

    Ya know, the suits at pwe really need to give some serious thought to doing something positive for Tacofangs. Never seen him come in here and talk about something and not deliver. Because that's the kind of guy he is. How nice at least one Dev "gets it" when it comes to what a Star Trek-based MMO is supposed to be about.

    So, come on, suits! Look up from your precious metrics for once and be grateful ya got somebody like Tacofangs under contract. A bonus or a raise really isn't out of the question here based on his body of work. Better still, replace Geko with Tacofangs. I'm sure we can find another position somewhere for Geko. Something which perfectly matches his talents and abilities. I recommend something in the service sector. After all, no one has enough janitors. Or maybe politics. Because Geko has proven time and again he gotz epic skillz at saying one thing and doing another.

    But I digress...as usual.

    First the new ESD and now Tacofangs has done what President Reagan asked. Put yer head down and keep diggin', Big Guy. And know now when the day comes where I see you listed as Lead Designer or Executive Producer(Oh HELL YEAH! It's gonna happen! Guaranteed!) on any game anywhere, I'll be first in line to purchase it or subscribe.
    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
  • painfullylargepainfullylarge Member Posts: 174 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Read the whole thread. Still scratching my head on this.

    1. Sirius block was previously walled off from KDF wihout RP. How does this work now? Are these barriers just gone altogether, or is there some other affect in place that prevents travel? Is diplomacy (RP/DI) therefore worthless, or is it still useful in some way?

    2. As a die-hard accolade hunter, I'm seriously concerned about the Deep Space Encounter (DSE) accolades. I'm ok with them being switched to random events--I'm concerned that the existing accolades will be broken. If you can provide a way to keep the DSE's (even if they're random encounters)--all of them (Sirius, Regulus, Alpha Centuri, etc)--I will be most grateful.
    Trying to cram 70 plays per sector block in between now and when S10 hits, is going to be impossible, and I don't want to get stuck with broken accolades. :(
    *Partially answered in post 147*
    I'd still like clarification on the accolades. Worst-case, please change the existing accolades so that each DSE ship destroyed counts as 1, and at 70, the accolade will be complete. This would be similar to how a single DOFF mission now moves the exploration count by 1 for the respective cluster. It may "cheapen" the accolade, but at least we could still complete it. And how do you scale enemies when a level 5 and a level 60 are playing together?

    3. What about trade routes? I actually like the idea of demarcated space for trade routes--something which indicates the paths of most frequent travel. Perhaps areas which naturally allow for faster warp travel than others--some of which are limited to a specific warp factor for preservation of subspace (this is canon, btw). http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Speed_limit

    4. I get that in a game, having realistic travel-times between planetary systems won't work; nobody can afford to spend weeks traveling between two places. That said, a revamp of the current warp system should be in order. Warp 40+ is laughable really.

    5. Along with #4, anyone who doesn't have a Quantum SlipStream drive (QSS) and/or a borg/Omega engine already has an ungodly long transit time in sector space. I can vouch for this, because I finished the Anniversary event on low-level toons, and it was a SEVERE pain to have to trek back and forth (no transwarp alternatives either). Enlarging sector space as planned is going to be even more painful for those who aren't level 40+, don't have tier 4 diplomacy/marauding, and don't have borg/omega engine. If that's the intent--to keep lower-level players handcuffed to closer regions of space, that's fine. In the existing sector blocks system, clearance wasn't permitted until you finished/skipped certain single player missions...but even those required you level up. In this new system, preventing access to sectors is something I have yet to see explained.
    Ultimately though, even for max-level captains, larger sector space is going to drastically increase travel time. And if you intend to make events like the Anniversary--which already takes a godly amount of time for low-level toons...then you either need to rethink how those events are created (eg. low-level players only have to omega particle hunt in nearby systems), or you need to prohibit low-level players from participating altogether.

    6. Will the transwarp conduits for borg space be replaced with a transwarp location in the TW menu?

    7. Will more TW locations be added to help counteract the increased sector space size? Will TW cooldown be reduced? Or perhaps more radically, can everything outside of a certain distance from your current location, be an option for TW? And can we either eliminate the cost of TW (would be a great benefit of commendation rank in diplomacy/marauding), or at least structure it so it's the same cost regardless of current location and target location?

    8. Why cram everything into 3 quadrants, instead of 4? Why not have an actual Gamma quadrant (dominion space)? Perhaps even make the wormhole functional, with an outlet in the Gamma quadrant, similar to how we access the Delta Quadrant?

    9. Still confused about why so many Alpha quadrant systems are in the Beta quadrant. Sol? Vulcan?

    10. Without load zones, how does server balance happen? Currently, instances are generated to balance server load--but even then, the servers can't handle it all at times. ESD lag-of-death was only a month ago. Can you explain a bit more how server-balancing will happen with this new system?

    11. Will there be more trade ships added? If not, can you add TW locations to 1 or more of them, to help facilitate visiting them?

    12. Featured races should have their homeworlds represented in sector space. Adding places like Betazed is a move in the right direction. I would also like to see places like Zakdorn added--even if it is just filler.

    13. Will fluidic space be added?

    14. The current system of setting course for a specific system will probably benefit from a refresh. There's already several missions that don't direct you to the right area--and worse, when you plot course for that mission, it doesn't take you to the right location (happens more with in-progress missions). Ideally, all systems (regardless of importance) would be listed alphabetically and perhaps with an alphabet header which would direct you to systems beginning with the letter you click on.
    *Answered in post 63*-- NEW type search feature for course plotting.
    This DOES raise the question about TW though, since the feature does not work cross-quadrant. It would be more functional if search worked for every system everywhere in the game--and TW costs/icon was displayed for those outside of the current quadrant (and the associated quadrant icon was indicated too).

    15. Since quasi 3D space is required (game engine, player conceptual abilities, etc)--will the systems in each quadrant be more varied in "elevation" from the grid floor, or will they be more homogenous in this regard? Will we see "stacked" systems, where one is closer to the floor and another is at the "top" of the block, but in close lateral proximity? Will auto-navigation address these elevation differences better than it currently does? (Drozana, I'm looking at you)

    16. Zone chat? Quadrant wide? That's going to be a bit of a problem. There will be so much chatter that most will either turn it off or ignore it entirely. Carrying on a zone-chat conversation will be insanely difficult. And how will local chat work--is it also quadrant-wide, but limited to 1 instance? And as someone mentioned, let's not forget the demon-spawn-bots of MMOSIGHT, who have virtually unlimited bogus accounts generated daily.

    17. You have to add Utopia Planetia in orbit of Mars--and it should probably be visible from sector space. ESD (also should be visible from sector space) shouldn't be where FEDs get their ships, they should have to trek to Mars.

    18. Post 112 gave me a fantastic idea. Hold foundry contests to design the social areas for new planets/content not yet in the game. Winning submissions become cannon and part of the game for that specific area. This will allow greater variety in the game than would probably be possible with just the Cryptic design team.

    19. Will Red-Alerts happen quadrant-wide, and if so, does the faction you play against vary based on your current location? I would expect Borg to remain the common enemy (And I sincerely hope the accolades and stuff will not get broken by this)--but would it also potentially spawn Tholians if you are near their space? What about if you are on the border between claimed territories? Is it possible to be in a RED ALERT that's a 3-way shoot-out between yourself and 2 other, warring factions?

    20. As noted in post #213, having graphics from Alpha displayed at the border of Beta, and vice versa--would greatly improve realism. So even if you can't seamlessly traverse between quadrants, at least you can still SEE into the next quadrant.
  • ltcmdjamescoreltcmdjamescore Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Great news, just a few questions:

    - What will happen to sector Red Alerts and their accolades?
    - What will happen to Deepspace Encounters aka Defend Sector and their accolades?

    EDIT:
    Oh okay, I hope it will work.
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=22552541&postcount=147
    izNBNFT.jpg
  • mrspidey2mrspidey2 Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Wait, AR-558?

    That's just one planet in the Chintoka System...
    2bnb7apx.jpg
  • danielhunter1991danielhunter1991 Member Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Wow, I'm quite excited about this, great job guys. The map looks a lot better, better than I thought it would in fact and I'm looking forward to exploring it once its released. :)

    Been playing the game since 2012 but only just started posting on the forums, how embarrassing.
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