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Guardian Cruiser obsolete? Why command ship stats all the same?
lingeringsoul888
Member Posts: 509 Arc User
Just comparing the stats on the Command Ship and the Guardian Cruiser. Command ship has more Hull, better shield modifier, better turn rate, similar bridge officer slots and more console slots.
So why would ANYONE in their right mind buy the guardian when the command ships do better job at the same price. It just seems such a waste of have this mighty looking ship sidelined.
Also, why do the command ships have the almost idential stats? Same hull, same turn rate, same shield modifier. I would've thought they'd follow the usual stats for their respective classes.
Really wish they would give me a reason to buy the guardian (even though I probably still will)
So why would ANYONE in their right mind buy the guardian when the command ships do better job at the same price. It just seems such a waste of have this mighty looking ship sidelined.
Also, why do the command ships have the almost idential stats? Same hull, same turn rate, same shield modifier. I would've thought they'd follow the usual stats for their respective classes.
Really wish they would give me a reason to buy the guardian (even though I probably still will)
Post edited by lingeringsoul888 on
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Outside of the Cmdr ENG station, it has 2 LtCdr stations: 1 LtCdr TAC, 1 LtCdr SCI. In short, the Guardian is a solid, tough Cruiser while still being able to slot higher end TAC *and* SCI abilities than the Command FDCs. The Command ships at any variant do not have the minimum of LtCdr across all 3 TAC, ENG, SCI stations. They may go strong ENG and decent TAC or SCI stations. But they will never be like the Guardian, where it maintains strong ENG capability and decent TAC *and* SCI stations at LtCdr.
The strength of being able to use higher end LtCdr abilities instead of Lt level ones is a big deal. BFAW3 is no joke compared to BFAW2. TS3 is way, way better than TS2. For SCI, at LtCdr, you can slot powerful stuff like the ever popular GW1, or very strong heals like TSS3, HE3, ST3.
If you want to do traditional damage dealing, the Guardian has several important tools the Command FDCs don't have:
1. Weapon System Efficiency Cruiser Command - Lessen weapons power drain.
2. The option to slot Intel ability OSS (Override Subsystem Safeties) since the Guardian has an Intel hybrid station. OSS is a supplement to whatever means you have on providing more power to your ship. It does not replace them. For example, you can run your EPTW *and* OSS. OSS also lets you go over the Subsystem Power Caps temporarily for your attack power surges.
The Guardian and the Command FDCs, in the end, should result in a ridiculously tough ship. But the Guardian can do more on the same hull. You don't need to switch to a "TAC version" to have a LtCdr TAC station. You don't need to switch to a "SCI version" to get a ship with a LtCdr SCI station. The Guardian has all that already in one ship. Also, it has the full range of Cruiser Commands. If you want to go more damage oriented, you have Weapon System Efficiency, and if you feel the need to go more Defensive, hey! You got the same Cruiser Commands the Command FDCs have!
would LOVE to, if they had actually bothered to tell me that I needed the fleet admin's permission to buy, otherwise, I would've bought the normal version weeks ago.
I'm just making a list of must have ships. I think strangly, the Guardian cruiser is still on my list regardless of its short comings comapred to the new breed of ships
SOLD!!!!!
it'll be on my list after the avenger.
1st the trait is epic
2nd the ship looks boss if you like the galaxy/amabassador
3rd the boff layout is fantastic
4th Intel abilities vs command
Command ships in no way out class the Guardian to the point of it not being a worthy buy. And when its fleet version is released itll become even better.
Incidentally, I'm liking the new 3 pack trend of differing boff slots. Previously packs like the odyssey only had different condole slots. At least now changing ships has more of an impact.
Commander Science, Lieutenant Commander Engineering, Lieutenant Commander Universal, Lieutenant Tactical, Ensign Science
You're forgetting a very crucial difference: The Command Flight Deck Cruisers have only the Shield and Attract Fire Cruiser Commands. The Guardian has all 4 types but more importantly, it has the Weapon System Efficiency Cruiser Command for a big reduction in Weapon Power consumption by Energy Weapons. That's a pretty big deal for those weapons' damage output. And if you want to tank it up with the Guardian, it has all Cruiser Commands to fall back with as well as being an inherently tough ship. If you're into having Energy Weapons pumping out hurt, this is a big factor.
I currently fly the Guardian on my sci toon alt... she likes it since she can do GW1 plus TS3 & BFAW2. It's a beast... the fleet version will even make it more epic with an 11th console slot along with 10% more hull and shields.
The command ships are specifically targeted towards career oriented builds... but on cruiser platforms. Like the Dauntless and Scryer are tac oriented science platforms, the Command Cruisers are geared towards specific playstyles for team play and thus perform differently than the Guardian Class.
The Command Ships btw are designed to be similar except in BOFF/console layout: tac/sci/eng oriented based on your playstyle.
There are a lot of things to consider when comparing the ships, but they both have strengths and weaknesses. First of all, if you're buying one single T6 ship for 3k Zen then the Guardian is the only choice. As a single ship, the Guaridan is superior to either of the Command ships. If you have the 3 packs, things aren't as clear.
The Guardian comes with a useful trait as well as an excellent console. The Presidio for example, comes with a fantastic trait, but the console sucks. The Concorde has an excellent console and a Trait I personally think is awful. The Geneva has good console and trait, but it really only helps Science Characters. The Guardian is strong in all areas.
Personally, I have the 3 command ships and I unlocked the Samsar so I have all of the Command consoles. I fly the Presido with the Console from the Concorde (Shield Platform) and the Console from the Samsar (Regenerative Integrity.) Having those two consoles in addition to All Hands On Deck honestly makes the ship almost completely invincible. The Fleet ships have the higher hull and better shields, but really require access to multiple consoles to match or exceed the Guardian in survivability. In this area, the Guardian clearly trumps any single command ship. If you have access to all the consoles, the edge is slightly to the Command ships.
Damage: Again, it's a toss up. The Presidio has slightly better Tactical BoFF options thanks to a Lt. Universal opposed to an Ensign on the Guardian. The Guardian has the full set of Cruiser Commands and has access to superior Intel Abilities like Override Sub System Safeties and Ionic Turbulence. While the Command abilities aren't quite as good, some abilities such as Overwhelm Emitters and Suppression Barrage are quite handy. Also, don't forget the Hangar on the Command Ships, I use Elite Obelisk Swarmers and they're quite lethal. The Tactical Command ship also has 4 Tac Consoles compared to the 3 on the Guardian. In my personal experience the edge is slightly to the Presido, but the Guardian's use of Intel Abilities and Gravity Wells keeps it very very close.
The last thing I looked at is aesthetics. Which ship looks better? This one is going to be a matter of pure opinion, but you can't go wrong either way. I love the classic 'throw back' look of the Guardian, but the customization options on the Command ships is unlike anything previously released in STO. My big knock on the Guardian is it has extremely limited customization, almost none to be honest. Every Guardian looks the same.
You can make arguments for either ship, but overall none of them outclass the other and none of them are rendered obsolete. If you're only buying one single ship though, as much as I LOVE LOVE LOVE my Presidio, the Guardian is the better buy. Once the Fleet variant is available it will only get better.
As a single ship purchase, the Guardian remains, in my opinion, the most versatile and highest value purchase available in STO. There is nothing it can't do well.
You also forgot the console in pvp is just insane and remember OP. In this game a lot of things that look good on paper aren't and a lot of things that look not so great on paper are
- In terms of damage and tanking, Guardian probably inches out the Command cruisers a bit. OSS is a godly ability and every ship that has Intel slots should equip it. Also, both the universal console and ship mastery traits on the Guardian are *amazing*. I use Desperate Repairs on every ship I equip.
- In terms of team support, the Command cruisers are awesome. The Inspiration mechanic is MUCH better than Gather Intel. I also find the Command line of abilities better than the Intel ones as a whole. Not that Intel doesn't have some excellent abilities, but I find Command has more interesting abilities. Plus, mixing Suppression Barrage with Beam Fire At Will is a lot of fun! Plus it has a hangar bay. I originally slotted Elite Scorpions (I use them on my Atrox), but without the carrier cooldown reduction, I can't keep them up as much as I'd like. I've since switched to either Advanced Danubes or Advanced Delta Flyers and I much prefer them. Oh, and the Command cruiser, especially with at least two of those consoles equipped, is MUCH more maneuverable than the Guardian.
Personally, I'm currently having more fun with the Geneva (I am a science captain) than I did with the Guardian, but I'm also more of a fan of buffing and debuffing, so that's me. But honestly, either ship is rock solid, so consider picking up both
All Hands on Deck is indeed nice but it doesn't make the TAC Command Cruiser that much more worthwhile.
Desperate Repairs on the Guardian bails you out so many times with insane heals that take you from near dead levels to, "I'm done feigning being near dead" levels. Having Desperate Repairs and then not having it is a night & day experience.
Then you also have the ships themselves, which I spoke about over in my earlier reply. Both ships can be made damn tough. The Guardian however has the full range of Cruiser Commands with the all important Weapon System Efficiency Cruiser Command. The Guardian can go full on defense like the Command Cruisers. But unlike the Command Cruisers, it has the Cruiser Command to give it the edge in going offense. Also, the BOFF layouts is a major divider. The Command Cruisers can either be ENG/TAC, ENG heavy, or ENG/SCI, but *never* ENG/TAC/SCI at the same time with LtCdr skills at the minimum across all 3 ability types. The Guardian will let you do far more on one ship. I will take the Guardian over any Command Cruiser any day of the week.
And I say that even with the Guardian not having its Fleet version yet.