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Armor Penetration and Isokinetic cannon test

sharxtremesharxtreme Member Posts: 850 Arc User
edited February 2015 in PvP Gameplay
In last few days i did several tests in both PvE and PvP to check how big impact the Enhanced Armor Penetration had on overall effective damage since Delta Rising.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sUfT2EgO1w

Confirmation by Borticus that it is getting fixed since it debuffed the target for way more then 5% what would this mean for PvP?
Also a test where I show how you can fire Isokinetic cannon from normal battlecloak without breaking the cloak and how same thing on Phantom will break it's cloak.
check it out.
Post edited by sharxtreme on

Comments

  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    This.

    Ionic Turbulence disable chains.

    Surgical Strikes.

    Isokinetic Cannon.

    Neutronic Torpedo.

    Viral Torp disable chains.

    Was ANYTHING released with Delta Rising not bugged?
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited February 2015
    praxi5 wrote: »
    This.

    Ionic Turbulence disable chains.

    Surgical Strikes.

    Isokinetic Cannon.

    Neutronic Torpedo.

    Viral Torp disable chains.

    Was ANYTHING released with Delta Rising not bugged?

    Well, I wasn't around, but I've read science abilites used to be considered OP and then they all got a massive nerf accross the board. Only recently some have made a comeback.
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    lucho80 wrote: »
    Well, I wasn't around, but I've read science abilites used to be considered OP and then they all got a massive nerf accross the board. Only recently some have made a comeback.

    Science wasn't OP at all until Particle Manipulator popped up.

    I ran a GW/TBR Pull/EWP build for literally years. It was very effective, but hardly OP.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    praxi5 wrote: »
    Science wasn't OP at all until Particle Manipulator popped up.

    I ran a GW/TBR Pull/EWP build for literally years. It was very effective, but hardly OP.

    I think hes talking 3-4 years back when we could run a team of intrepids (only really needed 2) and nuke entire teams shields off with 2 buttons. Back in the days when there wasn't 1001 items that instantly restored your shields for you.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • ivantomdisplayivantomdisplay Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    sharxtreme wrote: »

    Off topic. Even with all the makeup, this game looks so aged.
    [10:49] [Combat (Self)] Your Proton Barrage deals 96581 (43411) Proton(Critical) to Seto.
    Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
  • majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Has anyone had a chance to test the massive buff to Tachyon Beam with this last patch?
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Has anyone had a chance to test the massive buff to Tachyon Beam with this last patch?

    There was this post in Bort's thread...
    janus1975 wrote: »
    I thought it would be useful to take my two science-based toons (sci toons with actual science-focused builds) and look at their Tachyon Beam III rack-rate stats before and after:

    Vesta Class USS Verona, in orbit around New Romulus

    Before

    -317 all shields each pulse (10 pulse max)
    Deals 253.1 radiation damage (50% shield penetration) every second

    0.4 sec
    0.83 sec activate
    28.6 sec recharge

    Starship Flow Capacitors: 94

    After

    -617.1 all shields each pulse (10 pulse max)
    Deals 253.1 radiation damage (50% shield penetration) every second

    0.4 sec
    0.83 sec activate
    19 sec recharge

    Korath Class IKS Zogozin, in orbit around Qo'nos

    Before

    -380 all shields each pulse (10 pulse max)

    0.4 sec
    0.83 sec activate
    30 second recharge

    Starship Flow Capacitors: 120

    After

    -686.4 all shields each pulse (10 pulse max)

    0.4 sec
    0.83 sec activate
    20 second recharge

    Note: stats according to the full notes list that are shown in the "Available Skills - Drag to Tray". No attempt to boost powers (e.g. changing power levels or hitting batteries, EP to Aux etc) or change other stats in order to make a straight "like for like" comparison.

    So looks like it was a bona fide boost to tachyon beam... thanks! :)
  • tofutodutofutodu Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Very good test, I applaud you. So maybe armor pen is the major problem and not the individual abilities (TS3, SS3). Maybe a fix to armor pen only would largely fix pvp damage.
  • ninjaboy0ninjaboy0 Member Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    praxi5 wrote: »
    This.

    Ionic Turbulence disable chains.

    Surgical Strikes.

    Isokinetic Cannon.

    Neutronic Torpedo.

    Viral Torp disable chains.

    Was ANYTHING released with Delta Rising not bugged?

    I'm not saying these other things don't need to be addressed but leaving PartG / FBP / TBR out of your list is rather ridiculous.

    It should be the very *first* item listed. Any questions? See Borgasimo. lol

    FBP has always been broken since day 1. It's one of the legacy gimmicks that has had a horrible implementation since beta.

    I'm not disagreeing with you but some of the -dmg command abilities might need to be "adjusted" if your suggestions are taken into consideration.

    All disabling CC's should be on a shared DR. That would fix the problem immediately.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    lucho80 wrote: »
    Well, I wasn't around, but I've read science abilites used to be considered OP and then they all got a massive nerf accross the board. Only recently some have made a comeback.

    The issue was that originally, Science was in general far better shape than what you probably saw when you came. That's how it was at launch. The problem arose when players from both sides didn't like playing against Science because to go against Science effectively was not the same way as you did with normal energy/projectile attacks. People wanted their same way of playing and defending against a type of attack and not have to account for another. When I flew my Hegh'ta back then, I feared nothing... Except when I saw an Intrepid. Obviously how the Intrepid tries to kill you, or set you up, is different from a regular Cruiser or Escort. It seemed others didn't want that extra kind of flavor to fight against.

    Hence, the massive Science Nerfs not long after launch. Science's abilities based on its most expensive skillboxes had been nerfed to complete oblivion and uselessness.

    You missed out on Science's best days, back when for most parts, almost the full spectrum of Science abilities were pretty useful in PVE and PVP. Wish you could have seen it.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • tfomegatfomega Member Posts: 812 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    praxi5 wrote: »
    This.

    Ionic Turbulence disable chains.

    Surgical Strikes.

    Isokinetic Cannon.

    Neutronic Torpedo.

    Viral Torp disable chains.

    Was ANYTHING released with Delta Rising not bugged?

    Nope, because pvpers gave up on cryptic.. no one is left to test their mediocrity of coding and so it gets released. Not like it mattered though, cryptic didn't listen to the pvpers anyway when we told them about bugs before release.

    I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
    MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    The issue was that originally, Science was in general far better shape than what you probably saw when you came. That's how it was at launch. The problem arose when players from both sides didn't like playing against Science because to go against Science effectively was not the same way as you did with normal energy/projectile attacks. People wanted their same way of playing and defending against a type of attack and not have to account for another. When I flew my Hegh'ta back then, I feared nothing... Except when I saw an Intrepid. Obviously how the Intrepid tries to kill you, or set you up, is different from a regular Cruiser or Escort. It seemed others didn't want that extra kind of flavor to fight against.

    Hence, the massive Science Nerfs not long after launch. Science's abilities based on its most expensive skillboxes had been nerfed to complete oblivion and uselessness.

    You missed out on Science's best days, back when for most parts, almost the full spectrum of Science abilities were pretty useful in PVE and PVP. Wish you could have seen it.

    Remember when sub nuke and viral matrix actualy shut you down for a few seconds?

    Used to make the hirogen actually dangerous
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
  • riccardo171riccardo171 Member Posts: 1,802 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    tfomega wrote: »
    Nope, because pvpers gave up on cryptic.. no one is left to test their mediocrity of coding and so it gets released. Not like it mattered though, cryptic didn't listen to the pvpers anyway when we told them about bugs before release.

    Looks like recently they are though. I'm seeing bort a lot more active lately.
  • edited February 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Remember when sub nuke and viral matrix actualy shut you down for a few seconds?

    Used to make the hirogen actually dangerous

    The nerf to disable elements of VM, PSW, etc. hurt real bad. It doubly hurt since Subspace Decompiler Skill was among the top for Science Skillboxes and very costly to get up.

    The disables nerf however hurt Phasers the most. Originally, there was no Phaser Proc cooldown on a target. If a boatload of Feds in PVP or even in PVP were shooting at you, chances were, one of your subsystems was going down. The worst that could happen was the chaining of Shield Subsystem Power to get shutdown. Back then, most Feds used Phasers. Not just for going with a canon appearance in their weapons. But because the Phaser Proc was, IMHO, potentially more disastrous to a target than Disruptors were. IMO, -10 resist debuff from Disruptor Proc <<<< Shields, Engine Power collpasing to zero and subsystems being randomly shutdown with no breaks in between. Phaser used to be dangerous because of the random subsystem shutdown, no proc immunity, and that every Fed was using Phasers.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • sharxtremesharxtreme Member Posts: 850 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    The nerf to disable elements of VM, PSW, etc. hurt real bad. It doubly hurt since Subspace Decompiler Skill was among the top for Science Skillboxes and very costly to get up.

    The disables nerf however hurt Phasers the most. Originally, there was no Phaser Proc cooldown on a target. If a boatload of Feds in PVP or even in PVP were shooting at you, chances were, one of your subsystems was going down. The worst that could happen was the chaining of Shield Subsystem Power to get shutdown. Back then, most Feds used Phasers. Not just for going with a canon appearance in their weapons. But because the Phaser Proc was, IMHO, potentially more disastrous to a target than Disruptors were. IMO, -10 resist debuff from Disruptor Proc <<<< Shields, Engine Power collpasing to zero and subsystems being randomly shutdown with no breaks in between. Phaser used to be dangerous because of the random subsystem shutdown, no proc immunity, and that every Fed was using Phasers.

    You are forgetting that Disruptor proc stacked, that Klingons had nice carriers, Aceton, BoPs could use high Sci abilities like PSW, could stun you and tric bomb you or jam you and trannie bomb you.
    Back then, boff skills mattered, cpt skill points mattered the most, ship setups were various and plenty and gear was secondary. Now its completely opposite.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited February 2015
    The nerf to disable elements of VM, PSW, etc. hurt real bad. It doubly hurt since Subspace Decompiler Skill was among the top for Science Skillboxes and very costly to get up.

    The disables nerf however hurt Phasers the most. Originally, there was no Phaser Proc cooldown on a target. If a boatload of Feds in PVP or even in PVP were shooting at you, chances were, one of your subsystems was going down. The worst that could happen was the chaining of Shield Subsystem Power to get shutdown. Back then, most Feds used Phasers. Not just for going with a canon appearance in their weapons. But because the Phaser Proc was, IMHO, potentially more disastrous to a target than Disruptors were. IMO, -10 resist debuff from Disruptor Proc <<<< Shields, Engine Power collpasing to zero and subsystems being randomly shutdown with no breaks in between. Phaser used to be dangerous because of the random subsystem shutdown, no proc immunity, and that every Fed was using Phasers.

    The thing here is that I think they went way to far on the other end of things making subspace decompiler a skill not worth going for. Does anyone around here, even if it's only a Tribble test toon, have a maxed subspace decompiler build and it it even effective against 6 points in subsystem repair and a full human crew?
    sharxtreme wrote: »
    You are forgetting that Disruptor proc stacked, that Klingons had nice carriers, Aceton, BoPs could use high Sci abilities like PSW, could stun you and tric bomb you or jam you and trannie bomb you.
    Back then, boff skills mattered, cpt skill points mattered the most, ship setups were various and plenty and gear was secondary. Now its completely opposite.

    Sensors = Only fun to minimax and use in Kerrat to see cloaked ships from afar and mess with them.
    Subspace decompiler = Meh
    Countermeasure systems = Does anyone max this one, and it it useful? I used to see it more before DR dropped.
  • buccaneerdtbbuccaneerdtb Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    The nerf to disable elements of VM, PSW, etc. hurt real bad. It doubly hurt since Subspace Decompiler Skill was among the top for Science Skillboxes and very costly to get up.

    Subspace Decompiler was not a skill back then, it was added with the first skill tree revamp. Remember the old skill tree that was like reading hieroglyphics? Yet somehow it worked better if you knew how to use it.
  • buccaneerdtbbuccaneerdtb Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    sharxtreme wrote: »
    You are forgetting that Disruptor proc stacked, that Klingons had nice carriers, Aceton, BoPs could use high Sci abilities like PSW, could stun you and tric bomb you or jam you and trannie bomb you.
    Back then, boff skills mattered, cpt skill points mattered the most, ship setups were various and plenty and gear was secondary. Now its completely opposite.

    Not at the start, Carriers and Aceton consoles were added later.
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Not at the start, Carriers and Aceton consoles were added later.

    Well acetons yes but kdf carriers are original recipe. And if I had my way they were extra crispy.
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
  • buccaneerdtbbuccaneerdtb Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Well acetons yes but kdf carriers are original recipe. And if I had my way they were extra crispy.

    Sorry, I don't know why I thought they were added during season 1.1 or something. Maybe nobody really used them at first? I don't know. I play as FED.
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Sorry, I don't know why I thought they were added during season 1.1 or something. Maybe nobody really used them at first? I don't know. I play as FED.

    It was because getting a klingon up to 45 was the true definition of grind. They only had like 3 missions and that was before level scaling.

    I did it tho, and think of it when ever some one complains about grind, then I laugh.
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
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