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Forums > Home› Feedback› The Art of Star Trek Online

Upcoming Galaxy map revamp

captainhunter1captainhunter1 Member Posts: 1,630 Arc User
edited February 2015 in The Art of Star Trek Online
I'll admit, I'm huge map nerd. I love seeing location relationships - both physical and political. So I'm really excited to see the changes our talented Dev team will be making to the Galaxy map to 'bring down the walls'.

My greatest hope is that with the revamp, errors that made it onto the map in the crazy mad rush to launch five years ago will be corrected. This is a perfect opportunity to do so. :) So I thought I'd throw my two credits in here to help.

We all know there is no 'official' Star Trek map of the Galaxy. There are many soft canon sources out there and the Dev team has decided to use the "Star Trek Star Charts" (http://i2.minus.com/ixYp3Q3yg6Onw.jpg) as a basis for the revamp as it seems to be the best researched one.

Some of the misplaced systems in-game are obvious fixes (like Nimbus and Iconia which are specifically stated by canon to be IN the Romulan Neutral Zone - not 'near' it). Others are not so obvious, but are very important locations (like Khitomer and Narendra).

Given the 2D nature of STO's Galaxy map, some changes will have to be different from those shown on the Star Charts '3D' map (for instance it shows Iconia on the 'back side' of Romulan space where Fed space would actually wrap under (or over) it in a true 3D environment, but that doesn't work well for an MMO game map). These changes are perfectly understandable as long as they make sense from a gameplay and (as close to) canon perspective as possible.

I've made a number of posts regarding map corrections over the years considering the above paragraph. Just click on the second link in my signature below and look under 'Sector Space Improvements". Here are just two examples from my Tau Dewa thread listed there:

Khitomer - One of the most important places in Trek history. Site of both the Khitomer peace accords and Worf's birthplace. It's a Klingon colony that was attacked by the Romulans (Worf's origin), so it needs to be located along the Romulan-Klingon border - yet close enough to the Federation border that it would be considered a 'neutral spot' for the peace accords and also close enough for Fed ships to rescue survivors after the Rom attack.

Narendra - also extremely important to Trek history. Without the intervention of the Enterprise-C, the Federation would no longer exist and Empress Sela would never have been born. Has almost the exact same needs as Khitomer - has to be a Klingon colony along the Romulan-Klingon border, yet close enough to the Federation border that a Federation starship would be the first to arrive after the distress call is sent.

Both these locations are in kinda wonky spots on the Star Charts maps given the above canon information (from both a political and physical location standpoint). I'm hoping our Dev team can correct such oversights so they make it into the game in logical places. I'm not too afraid however, given the past track record of our Art team, I have high hopes for the new map. You guys are awesome! :)

P.S. I'm happy to help in anyway I can before the new map gets set in stone. Please feel free to e-mail me at any time!
My consolidated list of game improvements for STO:
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
Post edited by captainhunter1 on

Comments

  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited February 2015
    NERD!


    I can't get into much, there will be a Dev Blog at some point, going over all of this, but we're sticking pretty closely to the Star Charts map.

    For your examples, I don't think either system are far enough into Klingon Territory to make them inaccessible for their canon roles.

    Plus, political borders shift pretty regularly. What might have been on the border at one point could be deeper within someone's territory now. (For instance, I don't think the Neutral Zone really even exists anymore).
    Only YOU can prevent forum fires!
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  • tucana66tucana66 Member Posts: 710 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »

    I can't get into much, there will be a Dev Blog at some point, going over all of this, but we're sticking pretty closely to the Star Charts map. (...)

    Makes sense from a usability perspective. Change too much around and (some) players will be royally confused.

    Can you confirm for us if the new map backgrounds are not heavily rasterized/blurry when we zoom into them? More graphical detail maybe? :)
  • drennikdrennik Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    NERD!


    I can't get into much, there will be a Dev Blog at some point, going over all of this, but we're sticking pretty closely to the Star Charts map.

    For your examples, I don't think either system are far enough into Klingon Territory to make them inaccessible for their canon roles.

    Plus, political borders shift pretty regularly. What might have been on the border at one point could be deeper within someone's territory now. (For instance, I don't think the Neutral Zone really even exists anymore).

    Riddle me this:

    Will there be any additional homeworlds added to the "Alpha Quadrant map" ? Most notably, the worlds located within the "missing" Sector Block between Sirius, and Beta Ursae.
  • raythilo2345raythilo2345 Member Posts: 148 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    is there anyway wormholes can be added? to jump from one point to another?

    also if we had more homeworld...I know a certain Admiral Murphy from Foundry Files would like to see the Trill Homeworld added.
  • polstarukpolstaruk Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Will we still have a pop up asking if we want travel to / load up the next quandrant or will we automatically load up when hitting the border?

    Im hoping for the quandrant auto loads rather than asking. Maybe an option for either one?
    Anything that happens, happens. Anything that in happening, causes something else to happen, causes something else to happen. Anything that in happening, causes itself to happen again, happens again.
    It doesn't necessarily do it in chronological order though.
  • kagasenseikagasensei Member Posts: 526 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    NERD!


    I can't get into much, there will be a Dev Blog at some point, going over all of this, but we're sticking pretty closely to the Star Charts map.

    For your examples, I don't think either system are far enough into Klingon Territory to make them inaccessible for their canon roles.

    Plus, political borders shift pretty regularly. What might have been on the border at one point could be deeper within someone's territory now. (For instance, I don't think the Neutral Zone really even exists anymore).

    Beware that there are a few errors in the Star Charts (mostly due to ENT Seasons 3 & 4 having aired after its release). Anyhow, most of these have already been corrected in STO (location of the planet "Archer", which is NOT identical to Loracus Prime; Briar Patch = Klach D'Kel Brakt; location of Delphic Expanse systems; position of Babel on the "farside of Andoria relative to Tellar Prime)...
    - Masterlist: Wrong contact backgrounds in STO -

    STOWiki admin.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited February 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    NERD!


    I can't get into much, there will be a Dev Blog at some point, going over all of this, but we're sticking pretty closely to the Star Charts map.

    For your examples, I don't think either system are far enough into Klingon Territory to make them inaccessible for their canon roles.

    Plus, political borders shift pretty regularly. What might have been on the border at one point could be deeper within someone's territory now. (For instance, I don't think the Neutral Zone really even exists anymore).

    Do you know if sector defense will be sticking around? I'm pretty sure all this change would require a recoding of enemy engagements and accolades and lately of it's too hard, it gets cut.
  • captainhunter1captainhunter1 Member Posts: 1,630 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »

    Plus, political borders shift pretty regularly. What might have been on the border at one point could be deeper within someone's territory now. (For instance, I don't think the Neutral Zone really even exists anymore).

    Thanks for the reply Taco. :)

    This is what I said in one of my other map threads regarding the border subject:

    "As for the argument of borders shifting - sure, that may be true of the Federation-Klingon border, but for the Romulan border - - the Romulan Neutral Zone - - it was established as a hard, inviolate line which neither the Federation or Romulans could cross without it being an act of war. Even after the Hobus (stupid JJ's idiotic writing) incident, there is absolutely no evidence, anywhere, that this 'line in the sand' had been moved in its 250 year history (sure, easily crossed now in STO, but not MOVED)."

    It stands to reason given the continued hostilities between the Federation and Romulans right up to this day (*cough* Sela attacking Vulcan *cough*) - even considering the humanitarian efforts after Hobus - that the above would still be true. If anything, the Romulan Star Empire would probably even be more adamant about keeping its territorial borders (to try to hide its decline from within).
    My consolidated list of game improvements for STO:
    arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
  • jeffel82jeffel82 Member Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    captainhunter1 wrote: »
    "As for the argument of borders shifting - sure, that may be true of the Federation-Klingon border, but for the Romulan border - - the Romulan Neutral Zone - - it was established as a hard, inviolate line which neither the Federation or Romulans could cross without it being an act of war. Even after the Hobus (stupid JJ's idiotic writing) incident, there is absolutely no evidence, anywhere, that this 'line in the sand' had been moved in its 250 year history (sure, easily crossed now in STO, but not MOVED)."

    It stands to reason given the continued hostilities between the Federation and Romulans right up to this day (*cough* Sela attacking Vulcan *cough*) - even considering the humanitarian efforts after Hobus - that the above would still be true. If anything, the Romulan Star Empire would probably even be more adamant about keeping its territorial borders (to try to hide its decline from within).

    The only "evidence" one could have of the post-Hobus state of affairs that would affect STO is...STO. Anything that may have come up in novels or what have you (which I don't follow) can be used or disregarded as the devs see fit.

    And as far as STO goes...the game really doesn't portray a Romulan Neutral Zone at all. There's just a hard line between Federation and Romulan space, whereas the canonical Neutral Zone was supposed to be a region where no ships could travel. And as you said, the line is freely crossed by both sides, so I would say that the concept of a Neutral Zone is dead.
    You're right. The work here is very important.
    tacofangs wrote: »
    ...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited February 2015
    captainhunter1 wrote: »
    Thanks for the reply Taco. :)

    This is what I said in one of my other map threads regarding the border subject:

    "As for the argument of borders shifting - sure, that may be true of the Federation-Klingon border, but for the Romulan border - - the Romulan Neutral Zone - - it was established as a hard, inviolate line which neither the Federation or Romulans could cross without it being an act of war. Even after the Hobus (stupid JJ's idiotic writing) incident, there is absolutely no evidence, anywhere, that this 'line in the sand' had been moved in its 250 year history (sure, easily crossed now in STO, but not MOVED)."

    It stands to reason given the continued hostilities between the Federation and Romulans right up to this day (*cough* Sela attacking Vulcan *cough*) - even considering the humanitarian efforts after Hobus - that the above would still be true. If anything, the Romulan Star Empire would probably even be more adamant about keeping its territorial borders (to try to hide its decline from within).

    The RSE is all but gone. The Tal Shiar stand in their place, and are viewed more as terrorists than as a legitimate government.

    The Neutral Zone may not have shifted, but it sure as hell doesn't mean much anymore. I'd argue that it's a relic, and especially between the Fed and the Rom Republic, is meaningless these days.
    Only YOU can prevent forum fires!
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  • drreverenddrreverend Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    The RSE is all but gone. The Tal Shiar stand in their place, and are viewed more as terrorists than as a legitimate government.

    The Neutral Zone may not have shifted, but it sure as hell doesn't mean much anymore. I'd argue that it's a relic, and especially between the Fed and the Rom Republic, is meaningless these days.

    Right. With Sela vanished until recently and now in Republic custody and Hakeev dead, what's left of the Tal Shiar is probably splintering into factions and fiefdoms and cells as they squabble and fight among themselves for leadership of the increasingly fanatical group. Most of the people still in the Tal Shiar are the hardest of the hardcore, the true believers, the fanatics, and the so heavily brainwashed they're not really capable of having their own ideas anymore.

    I do imagine there are a number of petty fiefdoms and small confederations of Romulan colonies, outposts and small flotillas that exist outside the Republic, and a lot of D'tan's political resources are devoted to recruiting these smaller groups. Of course it also means there's a bunch of tinpot dictators, self-declared Grand Star Admirals (with the most awesomely over the top shoulder pads you can imagine), and other nobodies with a small fleet and a system or three to their name.

    So these days, a map of what used to be the Romulan Star Empire looks a lot like mid-19th century Germany: bunch of petty principalities and baronies, with D'tan playing the role of a more benevolent Otto von Bismark uniting them under the Republic's banner.

    Would be kind of neat to see a mission or two dealing with that, of a less "epic" scope than some of the others. Just the Romulan captain going out to fly the flag some and try and convince some independent Romulan system to sign on with the Republic.
  • dragonsbrethrendragonsbrethren Member Posts: 1,854 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    drreverend wrote: »
    Would be kind of neat to see a mission or two dealing with that, of a less "epic" scope than some of the others. Just the Romulan captain going out to fly the flag some and try and convince some independent Romulan system to sign on with the Republic.

    I've thought about doing something like this in the Foundry before. Maybe when editing's back up, I'll consider it again :)

    Of course, something official dealing with it would be great. As it is, the Romulan story ends and the last hint that the Star Empire/Tal Shair even exists anymore is in a Borg arc mission. The Republic has all but taken over, it'd be nice to see how they got the numbers to do that.
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  • drreverenddrreverend Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    dragonsbrethren wrote: »
    I've thought about doing something like this in the Foundry before. Maybe when editing's back up, I'll consider it again :)

    Of course, something official dealing with it would be great. As it is, the Romulan story ends and the last hint that the Star Empire/Tal Shair even exists anymore is in a Borg arc mission. The Republic has all but taken over, it'd be nice to see how they got the numbers to do that.

    Same. They kind of go from rag-tag rebel flotilla to pretty formidable awfully fast. Now some of that might be them going around and recruiting all the independent former RSE captains who still have their warbirds and didn't sign on with the Tal Shiar, and I imagine you can find a lot of Romulan refugees setting up colonies on Federation worlds or working in the merchant fleets.

    But then, I'm a fan of the idea of an interconnected galaxy where you see mass migrations like after the fall of Romulus millions of Romulans immigrating into the Federation as refugees, and you finding them on some of the colony worlds near the old border. It's been 40 years, and more than a few of the younger generation have assimilated to the point that there's a fairly strong debate over if their loyalties lie more with the Federation or this new Republic. Likewise, you'll find former Star Empire legionairres and centurions on more than a few merchant ships, just trying to make a living using the skills they'd picked up before everything went to hell.
  • redshirtthefirstredshirtthefirst Member Posts: 415 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Taco, I wish to ask one thing about old and new galaxy map:

    If you remember in the old map,there was a strip of space between Cardassian space and the Sirius block. Ever more back then, Betazed was on that stretch of space.

    Even now, on today's map, there is a gap.

    So my question to you,Taco, will that band be filled with a new block (or two) containing Betazed among others?
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  • captainhunter1captainhunter1 Member Posts: 1,630 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    tacofangs wrote: »
    The RSE is all but gone. The Tal Shiar stand in their place, and are viewed more as terrorists than as a legitimate government.

    The Neutral Zone may not have shifted, but it sure as hell doesn't mean much anymore. I'd argue that it's a relic, and especially between the Fed and the Rom Republic, is meaningless these days.

    Aye then. ;) See below.
    dragonsbrethren wrote: »
    Of course, something official dealing with it would be great. As it is, the Romulan story ends and the last hint that the Star Empire/Tal Shair even exists anymore is in a Borg arc mission. The Republic has all but taken over, it'd be nice to see how they got the numbers to do that.

    It would be cool to have something official in game stating this. Even a sentence or two, somewhere, putting the whole situation in perspective. Like D'tan saying the RSE and Neutral Zone ceased to exist when Sela came to power, it is nothing more than a hodge podge of the Tal Shiar and a despot 'Empress' oppressing the Romulan people now.

    Because currently it comes across as the RSE is still the legitimate government of the Romulan people (although in a weakened state) with all treaties in effect (Rom Neutral Zone) and that D'Tan's group is simply a splinter faction (albeit a large one).
    My consolidated list of game improvements for STO:
    arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited February 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • amosov78amosov78 Member Posts: 1,495 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    redshirtthefirst wrote: »
    Taco, I wish to ask one thing about old and new galaxy map:

    If you remember in the old map,there was a strip of space between Cardassian space and the Sirius block. Ever more back then, Betazed was on that stretch of space.

    Even now, on today's map, there is a gap.

    So my question to you,Taco, will that band be filled with a new block (or two) containing Betazed among others?

    All the quadrants have been filled out, at least Alpha and Beta, so that they're "rectangular" in shape. This means that new sectors and star systems have been added, however that doesn't mean that there's anything specific to do there yet.

    Lead Content Designer Charles Gray did an interview with the 'Tribbles in Ecstasy' podcast earlier, where he had some more information about the sector space revamp. It's at around the 01:30:30 mark:

    http://holosuitemedia.com/?powerpress_pinw=4160-podcast

    Additional information from last week was given by Taco here:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=22058041&postcount=132

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=22063011&postcount=20

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=22063131&postcount=23

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=22073611&postcount=416

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=22074071&postcount=64

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=22063221&postcount=4

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=22074221&postcount=9
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    drreverend wrote: »
    Right. With Sela vanished until recently and now in Republic custody and Hakeev dead, what's left of the Tal Shiar is probably splintering into factions and fiefdoms and cells as they squabble and fight among themselves for leadership of the increasingly fanatical group. Most of the people still in the Tal Shiar are the hardest of the hardcore, the true believers, the fanatics, and the so heavily brainwashed they're not really capable of having their own ideas anymore.

    I do imagine there are a number of petty fiefdoms and small confederations of Romulan colonies, outposts and small flotillas that exist outside the Republic, and a lot of D'tan's political resources are devoted to recruiting these smaller groups. Of course it also means there's a bunch of tinpot dictators, self-declared Grand Star Admirals (with the most awesomely over the top shoulder pads you can imagine), and other nobodies with a small fleet and a system or three to their name.

    So these days, a map of what used to be the Romulan Star Empire looks a lot like mid-19th century Germany: bunch of petty principalities and baronies, with D'tan playing the role of a more benevolent Otto von Bismark uniting them under the Republic's banner.

    Would be kind of neat to see a mission or two dealing with that, of a less "epic" scope than some of the others. Just the Romulan captain going out to fly the flag some and try and convince some independent Romulan system to sign on with the Republic.
    And at least one of the splinter states tried to join the Federation. :P
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