Regen-based build

praxi5 · February 2015

I've been toying around with the idea of coming back to PvP, with a regen based build. Any thoughts?

Here is the build I'm thinking of

Nicor with higher than base regen
Full Kobali set
Attack Pattern Expertise and Pathfinder traits for readily available Temp HP
2x Aux to ID for constant 40+% resist
Full Human crew + SIF Generator + HE2 + EngTeam 3 for high hull regen
Rep traits to boost passive hull and shield regen
Dauntless trait boosting all hull heals
DOffs = Aux to ID (+Resist), 2x EngTeam CD reduction, EPtX Cleanse

The idea behind this being consistently high regen with high powered heals to back it up when necessary.

Thoughts? Would this be better with a Tac, without the Eng Captain-based heals to back it up?

heckgoblin · February 2015

Wouldn't be worth much in PVP. Fiddled with regen builds before, and the regen is no help whatsoever against an opponent who delivers big damage spikes. (Which is all of them.)

noroblad · February 2015

what he said. It won't even work in PVE.

You can regen, if you really put your heart into it, a few thousand health every second, tops. Its probably less than 5000 or so. To get it super high, you will give up a lot of dps and other useful things.

NPC and PVP attackers can hit you for more than 10 times that amount every second.

Or, a new-scottyism:
It is going to be like trying to refill a trash can that has the entire bottom cut out of it with water using a drinking cup.

fatman592 · February 2015

If you're going to do this, please do only normal queues. Tanks purely invested in tanking contribute nothing to a team. Work on building your tank with threat control and some damage to hold aggro.

I thought humans only stacked to two, then no more bonus.

Focusing on regen is like focusing on crew, pointless. A single aux to SIF will heal more without sacrificing anything. In addition, you can toss your heal to another player if desired. This again is far more useful in social situations.

But if you just want to use this build for single player, have fun.

Edit: Forgot about the PvP end. In short, you will die instantly. The meta is FBP vs SS Disable Fahets. Regen can't keep up with 50k (minimum) DHC single shots and Neutronic spreads. Don't when think about heals, you'll be disabled.

tk79 · February 2015

Before Season 7 or so, I had a ~400% or so regen build, based on crew resistance, SIF, and the Borg set. Regen can be a strong modifier when coupled with high resistances and hull hit points. It even worked very well in PvP back in the day -- I was able to withstand pressure from multiple enemies without using heals for the most part. However, after the nerf to the human base trait, I was unable to go over 180% regen. I don't think that even with the Kobali set you can ever reach that 400% again.

In any case, today's PvP reality is so different that any kind of defense build quickly gets overwhelmed by the current power creep.

Unknown · February 2015

This content has been removed.

legendarylycan · February 2015

praxi5 wrote: »

I've been toying around with the idea of coming back to PvP, with a regen based build. Any thoughts?

Here is the build I'm thinking of
Nicor with higher than base regen

Full Kobali set

Attack Pattern Expertise and Pathfinder traits for readily available Temp HP

2x Aux to ID for constant 40+% resist

Full Human crew + SIF Generator + HE2 + EngTeam 3 for high hull regen

Rep traits to boost passive hull and shield regen

Dauntless trait boosting all hull heals

DOffs = Aux to ID (+Resist), 2x EngTeam CD reduction, EPtX Cleanse

The idea behind this being consistently high regen with high powered heals to back it up when necessary.

Thoughts? Would this be better with a Tac, without the Eng Captain-based heals to back it up?

don't forget living hull and biotech patch...if you're going to do it, might as well go all-out

praxi5 · February 2015

Ugh, that's all so discouraging. I wanted to try something different for once, but I guess the meta keeps us in cookie cutter builds.

Does a disable get you through Aux to ID with 100% uptime?

What if I through on an EPtE 3 for high speed/defense, thinking that regen and resist will help with anything that gets through? Is there a difference vs EPtE 1?

Am I just silly for trying?

shadowfang240 wrote: »

don't forget living hull and biotech patch...if you're going to do it, might as well go all-out

Yeah, I forgot to mention those. They'll be there, too.

pottsey5g · February 2015

noroblad wrote: »

what he said. It won't even work in PVE.

You can regen, if you really put your heart into it, a few thousand health every second, tops. Its probably less than 5000 or so. To get it super high, you will give up a lot of dps and other useful things.

NPC and PVP attackers can hit you for more than 10 times that amount every second.

Or, a new-scottyism:
It is going to be like trying to refill a trash can that has the entire bottom cut out of it with water using a drinking cup.

That's not correct regen setups work just fine. I have a hull regen build that's so high it can run the Undine STF without shields. For basic PvE you can sit AFK for hours and come back to find yourself on full health. I have seen shield regen builds that can tank 2 to 3 players. As long as you have decent hull hitpoints and/or hull resistance to deal with the odd bit of spike damage or bleed though or you pick the set which auto puts you at full shields when shields go down once every 60 seconds then its workable.

EDIT: I fly Crusiers. Might not be so true for Escorts.
EDIT: One of the more fun builds I did was a torp boat armor tank. No shields power needed, no weapon power needed. 125 Engines, 135 Aux with dual EptE. Fast, Agile and deals decent damage.

entrax11 · February 2015

tk79 wrote: »

I don't think that even with the Kobali set you can ever reach that 400% again.

You can get close to 400 even now, but there is only a single ship out there that can do it. The Tal'Shiar with the 2 piece set bonus. That's much more base regen than undine.

Works very well, even in DR-PVP.

@OP...if you want a regen built there is just one way to do it...all or nothing. If you don't min-max such a built to the limit it's not that effective and that means such a built is expensive. Resists should be at 60%+, so I would advise to use epic neutros with SIF boost.

BTW: Min-Max regeneration also includes to focus on shield regen, get everything that boosts your passive triggered shield heals like 3 piece borg proc if you have it. So no amplifier, just go for 4 emitter arrays.

sharxtreme · February 2015

Was just gonna post to use Tal Shiar cruiser, but Entrax said it better and has way more experience in healing then me.
In practice, from attacker PoW that ship can be a ***** to kill even with dual subnuke spike and if you can't deliver atleast twice more spike DMG then its hull after resists yeah, better luck next time.

DR almost killed of healers in this game, like every<one and their mums are ionic TBRlence, noobtronic OSS, SSuddenly vapers.
And about min/maxing, yeah, if you're gonna team heal/self tank do it all the way, just like tacs must go all the way on spike with some natural balance in defense/resist tanking. Only SCIs can afford to have it 2 or even 3ways and some hard to make hybrid Tacs in very specific unpopular ships and sets.

praxi5 · February 2015

entrax11 wrote: »

You can get close to 400 even now, but there is only a single ship out there that can do it. The Tal'Shiar with the 2 piece set bonus. That's much more base regen than undine.

Works very well, even in DR-PVP.

@OP...if you want a regen built there is just one way to do it...all or nothing. If you don't min-max such a built to the limit it's not that effective and that means such a built is expensive. Resists should be at 60%+, so I would advise to use epic neutros with SIF boost.

BTW: Min-Max regeneration also includes to focus on shield regen, get everything that boosts your passive triggered shield heals like 3 piece borg proc if you have it. So no amplifier, just go for 4 emitter arrays.

The Undine Cruiser gets 1.5% hull HP every 10 seconds* as one of its T5U upgrades vs the Tal Shiar set's 2.5% every 60. The Tal Shiar gets +20% shield regeneration, though.

Which is more valuable? It looks like I'll have to ditch my original Nicor idea and either go with the Battle Crab or Dromias.

*The wiki says 1.25% every 3 seconds, so I'm not sure which is which.

entrax11 · February 2015

praxi5 wrote: »

The Tal Shiar gets +20% shield regeneration, though.

Which is more valuable? It looks like I'll have to ditch my original Nicor idea and either go with the Battle Crab or Dromias.

Well it depends on what you want to do. Nicor is very offensive and even though the Tal-Shiar is able to dish out a lot of damage it really begins to shine when used as a team support healer.

Nicor may be better to escape ionics, Battlecrab is king (together with Recluse) when it comes to withstand high amounts of pressure damage.

It's not the shield regen bonus, because we're talking about an amplifier bonus, so not important. Why the Tal-Shiar is better is an individual question in the end, I mean the Dromias is decent but I am dead 2 times faster in it compared to the Crab. It's the same with a Nebula vs. a Pallisade....not so much difference in theory, but in the end it is a big difference in combat.

tk79 · February 2015

entrax11 wrote: »

You can get close to 400 even now, but there is only a single ship out there that can do it. The Tal'Shiar with the 2 piece set bonus. That's much more base regen than undine.

Interesting. The STOWIKI and ingame description however make the bonus regen sound quite lame. "2.5% regen every 60 seconds" is next to nothing. But seeing those reports I'm sure it's worded wrong in the tooltip.

I have the Talshiar Battlecruiser in an alt I no longer use (Rom Engineer) that I planned to PvP with. Of course, that plan is no longer in motion (also considering the current PvP state), but now I'm gonna build him with regen just for fun.

noroblad · February 2015

praxi5 wrote: »

I've been toying around with the idea of coming back to PvP, with a regen based build. Any thoughts?

pottsey5g wrote: »

That's not correct regen setups work just fine. I have a hull regen build that's so high it can run the Undine STF without shields. For basic PvE you can sit AFK for hours and come back to find yourself on full health. I have seen shield regen builds that can tank 2 to 3 players. As long as you have decent hull hitpoints and/or hull resistance to deal with the odd bit of spike damage or bleed though or you pick the set which auto puts you at full shields when shields go down once every 60 seconds then its workable.

EDIT: I fly Crusiers. Might not be so true for Escorts.
EDIT: One of the more fun builds I did was a torp boat armor tank. No shields power needed, no weapon power needed. 125 Engines, 135 Aux with dual EptE. Fast, Agile and deals decent damage.

if you can do the undine advanced space stf without shields, I bow to the master, no matter what kind of ship!

He specifically said pvp, though. Operating under an assumption here that he wants to actually kill other players WHILE being extra durable, I can't see it happening.

pottsey5g · February 2015

tk79 wrote: »

Interesting. The STOWIKI and ingame description however make the bonus regen sound quite lame. "2.5% regen every 60 seconds" is next to nothing. But seeing those reports I'm sure it's worded wrong in the tooltip.

It’s really badly worded. The higher the hull regen the shorter the regen ticks are. At around 400% regen you are getting a heal every second or two if I recall correctly. Once you get to around a 10 sec ish regen speed you can pretty much forget about needing active hull heals. Forget about Eng team 3 and the other hull heals and just keep shields up. The passive regen will deal with any hull damage you get so no need for Haz emitters or anything else.

entrax11 wrote: »

@OP...if you want a regen built there is just one way to do it...all or nothing. If you don't min-max such a built to the limit it's not that effective and that means such a built is expensive. Resists should be at 60%+, so I would advise to use epic neutros with SIF boost.

BTW: Min-Max regeneration also includes to focus on shield regen, get everything that boosts your passive triggered shield heals like 3 piece borg proc if you have it. So no amplifier, just go for 4 emitter arrays.

I found often that’s not the best way to do it. Booting hitpoints also boost regen amount as the passive regen is a % of your total hitpoints. Often you end up better going for epic netros with extra hull hitpoints. You can survived spike damage better and end up with higher healing. My way to build a hull tank is to get the highest Hull hitpoints you can.

sysil84 · February 2015

noroblad wrote: »

To get it super high, you will give up a lot of dps and other useful things.

I agree with this. Regen build is not useful in PvP, or I would say in PvE either.

Regen-based build

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