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So do the dyson ships just suck?
I just got mine today by using the q-things to fill last year's rep event and I was very dissatisfied with the ship. I loaded it up with cannons to match BO powers with the proton DHCs and put by old vesta build on it (more or less).
I used the free upgrade to T5U, and took it into The Conduit STF.
And It sucked. I popped 3 times in the opening combat alone, did little DPS, and found the ship to just be a slug (yes I did change my power levels)
I remember the ship being pretty good in the mission, but it seems to suck now. Am I missing some trick to flying it or does it just suck?
I used the free upgrade to T5U, and took it into The Conduit STF.
And It sucked. I popped 3 times in the opening combat alone, did little DPS, and found the ship to just be a slug (yes I did change my power levels)
I remember the ship being pretty good in the mission, but it seems to suck now. Am I missing some trick to flying it or does it just suck?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by k022#6452 on
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No they don't suck, you're flying them wrong. This kind of goes back to every single "science ships suck" thread out there.
Vesta's are hybrid science ships and can be built around those AUX cannon.
Dyson ships are primarily pure science ships and really need to be built around pure science builds. They're not designed to be used like the Vesta.
Also you're using the vanilla Dyson ships. As you may expect the C-Store dyson ships are much, much better especially with the sets thrown in on them.
Edit: Okay as I think about it I see what happened, you fell into the "destroyer trap". The idea that it can convert into a really crappy escort sucked you in and trapped you like it does with so many people.
Look at it this way... the Vesta can mount commander level science skills while doing made Cannon dps all the while keeping their AUX levels at 125.
Dyson in the destroyer mode, is pretty much a crappy sci themed escort. You don't have the console slots to maximize your cannon damage, you lower your science attunement by using max LCDR science skills, and you have to rebalance aux and weapon energy now. And the gimmicky built in cannon is proton damage so unless you're going to use all proton damage you're not really boosting it anyway.
Another is, the DSDs are hard to build, but if done right they're really amazing. It took me a while to figure out what worked for me but once I did it became one of my favorite science ships for both PvE and PvP.
Yeah this says it a lot easier then I did.
So the other trap you fell into was that science ships are kind of finiky. You can't simply move a build from one ship to another science ship and expect it to work.
I'd never move my Vesta build to my Pathfinder or Dyson, but I would concider moving it, with changes to my Dauntless or Scryer, but even then it wouldn't be the same.
I was running a full Proton/Polaron build (running 2 piece Jem'Hadar & 2/3 piece Dyson Weapons for the Polaron & Proton buffs), but I'd have recommended Dual Beams over Cannons myself however...
The Proton Cannons are a playstyle trap; they're inferior to an actual DHC and should just be considered a 'bonus' when in tactical mode. (Tactical Mode doesn't turn it into an escort, just a science ship that trades SA and a Science Cmdr. seat for a Tactical Cmdr. seat.)
They are, excluding lockbox/lobi, some of the best Science Ships currently available to the KDF and Romulans. You can even use faction materials on them now so they don't stick out like they used to.
The Freebie/Lobi one is inferior to the C-store variants, but it is still competent(and a free T5U upgrade).
Suck? No, by no means.
Its probably your build.
Would i buy them now? nope. not t6.
The DHC is a gimmick, pretty much like the tactical/sci mode switch.
But yeah, if you can't afford those, then the Dyson ship is what you want.
Just my personal opinion.
Sort of, Since it can't be upgraded its sort of stuck at MK12, but comparing it to another MK12 DHC when you've built the ship for proton damage, its better due to proton damage having universally pretty much 0 resistance to it.
On my protonic polaron build with mix of polaron and proton damage (had polaron around 80% and proton slightly higher), the proton DHC very much outperformed the DHC.
Now tho with MK14 gear, the proton DHC is hopelessly behind.
Low level science skills were Science Team, Transfer Shield Strength and Hazard Emitters, as offensive main power I got Gravity Well. I had Cannon Rapid Fire and Torpedo Spread as buffs for my weaponry, and Attack Pattern Omega for the Cmdr Tactica Slot.
Fill up the rest with Emergency Powers (Emergency power to Shields for shield hardness, and either Emergency power to Auxilliary for science buff or Emergency power to Weapons for weapon buffs - might depend on how you spit your power levels between Aux and Weapons.) and Tactical Team.
Damage Control Engineers will help you keep your Emergency Power cooldowns low.
I think I usually run a weapon power focused build to get the most out of my DHCs. I did equip the Dyson Set items, including the weapon set with the gravimetric torpedo and the protonic beam in the rear. Which lead me to coin the "torpedo farting" maneuver - taking a turn to fire a volley of torpedoes at the enemy.
A good beginning is usually with a Gravity Well, switch to offensive mode, torpedo TRIBBLE, turn back and use the energy weapon and attack pattern buffs and shoot the enemy with DHCs. Once APO runs out and Gravity Well should be cooled off, it's time to switch back to Science mode to throw the next one. (That will mean you will spend some more time in Science mode, since the conversion is also on a cooldown). That means you really need to be prepared to spend lots of time in science mode and the escort mode is reserved for alpha strikes.
Remember that Gravity Well and Gravimetric Torpedoes work great together. The Grav Well puts al the enemies in a smal spot, allowing the Grav Torpedoes special effect to affect the maximum number of enemies, and splash damage and warp core explosions add a lot. It doesn't matter what Science Vessel you use, this always work.
However, IIRC, the Dyson ships are currently bugged and the CMDR slots don't work?
Depends on your build and expectations.
I like more science in my ships so I was disappointed. That said I ran it in Sci mode with all but two or three Sci powers synergizing with the Secondary Deflector. I slapped photons on it (The Grav, Enhanced Bio, and bio molecular torps and the Experimental Proton Weapon). If I could drop shields and connect a HY Enhanced Bio-Molecular Torp to bare hull then I could do a bit of damage.
I ran it with two Fleet Neutroniums.
It's either a set up as a sci ship with some tac support or an escort with some sci support. Trying to get both, a full sci ship and full escort at the same time will only lead to a lukewarm mishmash which is subpar at both jobs.
Decide on either sci or tac route and go all the way with it.
Though admittedly tac has become less attractive because of the not upgradeable, one of a kind, fused proton DHCs.
And sadly it's still the best non-box ship klinks and roms have access to.:(
The store one lets you get that 5th sci console. It upgrades to have exotic damage. From there you can make it into a solid science ship.
For a rom, its one of TWO ships and if your fleet does not have the shipyard maxed (more common kdf side) you can't reach the haanom so it becomes 1 of 1 available sci ships.
KDF are not much better off, and it remains one of their FEW science ships. I think most prefer a karfi carrier, though -- now that is a science destruction machine.
Feds have so many ships that are better than the dyson that buying it would be silly IMHO.
I can't stress enough how the fixed cannon that does 0 dps ruined a good idea. If it had just opened an extra weapon slot for *any* weapon to be placed there and deactivated in science mode, it would be an extremely potent ship. But as it stands, even the science console c-store version is a mess --- tactical mode is about worthless, and science mode has weird officer seating.
Any (dare I say "all"?) other end-game sci ships are far better in layout and capabilities. I loathe any time I'm forced to fly the Dyson in A Step Between Stars -- and I have a primary sci char!
This is not really fair lol.
whatever, erm, "genius" set up the ship for that mission with, um, ENTIRELY THE WRONG WEAPONS FOR THE SHIP BECAUSE ITS NOT A FREAKING ENTERPRISE CRUISER TANK THING ruined the entire mission and experience.
I have to agree there, the ship does have potential to be something but that build from the mission is a complete trainwreck, best example of how not to build a ship.
Torp, DBB, beam and DHC in the fore would ruin pretty much every ship not just the dyson, let alone the rest of that mess.
It's more like flying the suppor cruiser: You get a cruiser that can throw out a GW here or there. IMO it was not enjoyable to sit there agonizing trying to turn the thing around to the next target.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
It did just this back when they came out. And I got some BO crits that were much higher than with fleet polaron consoles. Use also the dyson proton weapon.
However, this is my only 'bad' purchase in STO. IMO they DO suck. That stats look great. I love the destabilized beam. But they blow up more than any other ship I have ever flown. And it makes no sense to me based on the stats.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Yes, compared to all the good sci ships on the fed side they do kinda suck but on rom and kdf....well....you take what you get. Just the freebie though and would never spend anything on the store version or shell out so much lobi for just 1 toon.
I'm not sure I'd say it sucks, though if you are a fed player and want to do sci ships you have plenty of better choices. It is, like many others have said, a difficult ship to set up. The biggest problem is the tactical mode clicky. Frankly it is a gimmick and best left alone. Unless you do a speciialized built around the protonic polarons like some have mentioned that is best left alone. Otherwise you can build it like any traditional sci build, mine is an exotic damage build with GW, romplas and the dyson grav torp. But the freebie T5U only having a 3/4/3 console layout leaves a bit to be desired.
That said now that you can use faction specific materials they can look good. I like that the Aves looks like a mini D'D.
I still have the Dyson Destroyer for my Fed toon. Maybe one day I will outfit it with gear and actually give it a second chance. But if I start running out of ship slots I may decide to just delete it so that I do not have to buy any ship slots.
With that said, here is a basic layout that worked for and, continues to work in pve!
Make adjustments, where you see fit!
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
This.
The 'switchable' seating sounded like a godsend for those of us who where struggling with science ship damage. What most people today fail to remember, these ships came at a time where the overwhelming vast majority of science players had difficulty breaking 10K, let alone 20K.
Fast forward a year and now science ships can break 20K while piloting blindfolded and one hand behind your back.
If you look at the people who queue up for anything - how many are piloting the ship?
This is not to say that in the hands of a Ryan or Jena, this ship could not be a monster. On the contrary. What limits its potential is this locking in of protonic weapons. Ignore it, and you have an average science ship. Use it, and you need to invest in it.
So your choices were mediocre science ship or mediocre destroyer. Neither were very good. What shocks me was that some people PAYED for them.