Cryptic has this really bad history of being proactive with any content.
Each area becomes analyzed for participation, based on the amount people do things they split their workload to increase content in those areas, and monetize them.
In cases like PvP, or something else like ship interiors they have this really bad habit of saying "Well nobody plays this absolutely terriblly designed content so we shouldn't invest in it" instead of realizing people tried it, found it so bad they never did again, and it needs to be redesigned.
Other MMOs have shown you how a majority PvE game and turn PvP into fun and add player retention. The same MMOs have player housing that is wildly successful, so its definitely not the players saying we don't want this, its just cryptic.
Player housing needs a whole new system, insane amount of work.
PvP is so far off of casual friendly someone needs to think about it seriously. You either need to rebalance combat (not happening) or you need a match making system that is pretty complex. You also need scenarios that are more than a bunch of ships shooting at eachother, territory control, capture and holds, defensive/offensive missions (starbases a good start), etc.
Interestingly, he actually talk sabout the "chicken vs egg" problem, but he has two things that might indicate it's not just simple that problem:
1) His experience on CIty of Heroes was that despite people asking for PvP and playable villains, adding both to the game didn't really create a large interest in it.
2) They also have data about this game, too - and it's not as good as data they have on other topics, but it still suggests the same.
Build and they will come is not actually the automatism people hope it to be.
You can of course always choose to ignore him, or claim he's wrong, or lying. But... you better show some strong examples were this actually worked in other games or something. (And if you have such examples, dissect them and figure out what it took. Maybe the devs can steal the idea and give us awesome PvP, KDF and ROM stories...
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
For a company that seems to only be interested in wringing money out of everything ya you think they would have realized PvP pays.
Anyway its laughable to say "trek" fans only like to play games that involve no killing. If that where true STO would be dead... last I checked I had to murder 500,000 kazon anytime I want to get a spec point.
If this game was sit down with the bad guy and have a game of 3d chess, I may agree that on moral grounds PvP seemed like a bad fit.
Over the life of this game I have made 100s of PvP friends and just as many PvP enemies. They where all trek nerds and they all loved the pew pew.
Most of them are long gone cause Cryptic didn't want there money.
I do not PvP here because I feel like it not based on skill.
Lets take when I played WoW as a reference. If I fought someone that was an average player wearing all purple gear and I was in all white commons, I feel like I would win that 60% of the time because I was just a better player.
Sure they would win some due to crits or because I would mess up or miss time something, but I would win the majority of those fights because I knew what I was doing, when to to withdraw or when to press my attack.
STO is more gear based than skill based and while some are good with that it is not my personal cup of tea so to speak.
Also world/open pvp. Not to bring up WoW again but I usually abhor pvp in MMO's, but I got into with WoW because of the world PvP. So often a 1v1 would turn into 30v30 that was just so fun it made me want to start joining battlefields.
Star Trek Online is THE "Main Attraction" at this time, for Star Trek FANS.
Star Trek FANS do not normally play video games where the point is kill or be killed.
PVP is a direct confrontation of kill or be killed. And to not be killed means having uber game skills or a large wallet...or both. Star Trek FANS normally have neither of these. There are exceptions of course, and there may be many, or few, of these types in STO at any given time.
The main body of players however have absolutely NO INTEREST in PVP. They are Star Trek FANS. Not PVP Fans.
Unless another Game Company comes out with a version of pvp that star trek fans can play, and everyone be at the same level in gear, power governors, etc. Star Trek Fans will NEVER do PVP.
I know this is difficult for many people to accept but it is the cold hard truth.
Cryptic will not develop PvP because they already KNOW this to be TRUE.
TLDR: Star Trek FANS do NOT do PvP.
I guess you haven't played much Star Trek games, have you? :cool:
Do you: Have a lot of money available? Is spending money on the game an issue?
Do you: Have a lot of time available? Will you be able to Grind out the Dilithium, EC, and Ship/Rep Exp to max everything out?
Do you: Care about game balance?
Do you: Have a fleet dedicated to PVP?
If the answer is No to any of those questions, PVP Is probably not going to be the place for you in STO, from my experience.
Now, Take the game back maybe 2 years ago, and you might have been able to be casual enough where half of those questions could be no and you'd enjoy it.
Too bad Cryptic, for me, ruined the game, for me, with their extreme monetization of the game. Oh well, that's what other games are for.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Do you: Have a lot of money available? Is spending money on the game an issue?
Do you: Have a lot of time available? Will you be able to Grind out the Dilithium, EC, and Ship/Rep Exp to max everything out?
Do you: Care about game balance?
Do you: Have a fleet dedicated to PVP?
If the answer is No to any of those questions, PVP Is probably not going to be the place for you in STO, from my experience.
Now, Take the game back maybe 2 years ago, and you might have been able to be casual enough where half of those questions could be no and you'd enjoy it.
Too bad Cryptic, for me, ruined the game, for me, with their extreme monetization of the game. Oh well, that's what other games are for.
What's sad was that at launch, PVP was quite large. I remember being able to take a brand new Fed or KDF player and level solely through PVP. Every rank, every level, PVP was going on. When was the last time has anyone taken a brand new toon and get to level cap solely with PVP?
But the monetization and blatant power creep, unbalances have helped stifle it. The worst however was the pure neglect PVP has gotten during STO's existence. These factors have killed PVP to the pitiful levels that it exists in right now. If at all it still exists.
The game had potential. The numbers of players doing PVP early on where there. But neglect and no sense of balance has killed it all over the years. DR was simply the pistol shot to the back of the head as a finisher.
The Pvpers couldn't adapt, so they went back to hello kitty island adventure.
so worth a bitter lulz :rolleyes:... see op: here u got one of the reasons pvp never got the attention dev-side that was promised. clueless, unbased comments on something that doesn't even bother them. if u ever hear about those "bad-mouth-pvp'ers" plz recall that troll-post .
indeed pvp'ers adapted to everything one could adapt to, up to the point (dr) where any chance of adaption got erased by new powers and gear.
and a big trolololol on that other FAN-post. nice try dude .... sure, u found the holy grail on whos allowed to be a star trek fan through and through and there never has been any pvp in any serious star trek game. really... may better first google, then elaborate, then think and reelaborate before ever posting again :P...
Star Trek Online is THE "Main Attraction" at this time, for Star Trek FANS.
Star Trek FANS do not normally play video games where the point is kill or be killed.
PVP is a direct confrontation of kill or be killed. And to not be killed means having uber game skills or a large wallet...or both. Star Trek FANS normally have neither of these. There are exceptions of course, and there may be many, or few, of these types in STO at any given time.
The main body of players however have absolutely NO INTEREST in PVP. They are Star Trek FANS. Not PVP Fans.
Unless another Game Company comes out with a version of pvp that star trek fans can play, and everyone be at the same level in gear, power governors, etc. Star Trek Fans will NEVER do PVP.
I know this is difficult for many people to accept but it is the cold hard truth.
Cryptic will not develop PvP because they already KNOW this to be TRUE.
TLDR: Star Trek FANS do NOT do PvP.
I cant believe that people actually belive this meanwhile every mission in the game has you killing things! but other people? that's where we draw the line because we are star trek fans!! haha this is the most laughable argument that has been popping up on the forums lately as to why there is no pvp and it's absolutely the dumbest argument i have ever heard in the five years of this game has been around! how can anyone type that with a straight face
Many of us left because it's unplayable, unless you do it in specific channels or with friends.
Quoted for truth. I've played a lot of MMO's and when you run out of PvE content to conquer you inevitably find yourself in PvP. STO is one of the first MMO's I've played where this isn't the case. Over the years I've seen it go from decent to terribad to unplayable.
Obviously, Cryptic doesn't care because outside of adding shuttle PvP they have done almost nothing to improve the situation. Instead they have been busy nerfing a lot of stuff and herding everyone into certain content. It's really too bad because there is a lot of potential that is being wasted by their shortsightedness.
Who the F do you think you are making those assumptions?
You sound like a delusional uneducated Liberal carebear.
it was sarcasm my educated conservative hate monger try reading all the threads before you comment and sound like an idiot but you neo-con's are good at that now go back to watching Nancy Grace
Man back in my days when i was gaming it was never like this hate this hate that curse him that newbie and all this nonsense.. I just play games to have fun that's it Real life is already hard as it is why make it hard on your selfs.. I know when you all get home from work you all want to relax and enjoy the game your own way.. Its a video game people not real life war on terror
You must have been playing MMOs before UO was out, ie, MU[D|SHe]s. Even then there's some epic tales of hate from that age.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
1. Sarcasm is easily detected over written words. (My Sarcasm )
2. You sounded just like the other guy spouting his own PvP hate.
No I was just making fun of the "sto players dont pvp because star trek is not about war" claim
I'm on your side of this debate they need to just come out and tell us "there will be no further development" rather then stringing us along as recently as last month claiming it's on the "list"
I'm on my phone so the user ID is tiny and I assumed you were the other without checking.
I also apologize for original comment to you, pvp gets so much unwarranted hate it's hard to keep track where it's coming from. Funny thing is most of the hate comes from people who never pvp and fear it for some reason even though they are not forced to play it.
Comments
Interestingly, he actually talk sabout the "chicken vs egg" problem, but he has two things that might indicate it's not just simple that problem:
1) His experience on CIty of Heroes was that despite people asking for PvP and playable villains, adding both to the game didn't really create a large interest in it.
2) They also have data about this game, too - and it's not as good as data they have on other topics, but it still suggests the same.
Build and they will come is not actually the automatism people hope it to be.
You can of course always choose to ignore him, or claim he's wrong, or lying. But... you better show some strong examples were this actually worked in other games or something. (And if you have such examples, dissect them and figure out what it took. Maybe the devs can steal the idea and give us awesome PvP, KDF and ROM stories...
Anyway its laughable to say "trek" fans only like to play games that involve no killing. If that where true STO would be dead... last I checked I had to murder 500,000 kazon anytime I want to get a spec point.
If this game was sit down with the bad guy and have a game of 3d chess, I may agree that on moral grounds PvP seemed like a bad fit.
Over the life of this game I have made 100s of PvP friends and just as many PvP enemies. They where all trek nerds and they all loved the pew pew.
Most of them are long gone cause Cryptic didn't want there money.
Lets take when I played WoW as a reference. If I fought someone that was an average player wearing all purple gear and I was in all white commons, I feel like I would win that 60% of the time because I was just a better player.
Sure they would win some due to crits or because I would mess up or miss time something, but I would win the majority of those fights because I knew what I was doing, when to to withdraw or when to press my attack.
STO is more gear based than skill based and while some are good with that it is not my personal cup of tea so to speak.
Also world/open pvp. Not to bring up WoW again but I usually abhor pvp in MMO's, but I got into with WoW because of the world PvP. So often a 1v1 would turn into 30v30 that was just so fun it made me want to start joining battlefields.
I guess you haven't played much Star Trek games, have you? :cool:
Do you: Have a lot of money available? Is spending money on the game an issue?
Do you: Have a lot of time available? Will you be able to Grind out the Dilithium, EC, and Ship/Rep Exp to max everything out?
Do you: Care about game balance?
Do you: Have a fleet dedicated to PVP?
If the answer is No to any of those questions, PVP Is probably not going to be the place for you in STO, from my experience.
Now, Take the game back maybe 2 years ago, and you might have been able to be casual enough where half of those questions could be no and you'd enjoy it.
Too bad Cryptic, for me, ruined the game, for me, with their extreme monetization of the game. Oh well, that's what other games are for.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
What's sad was that at launch, PVP was quite large. I remember being able to take a brand new Fed or KDF player and level solely through PVP. Every rank, every level, PVP was going on. When was the last time has anyone taken a brand new toon and get to level cap solely with PVP?
But the monetization and blatant power creep, unbalances have helped stifle it. The worst however was the pure neglect PVP has gotten during STO's existence. These factors have killed PVP to the pitiful levels that it exists in right now. If at all it still exists.
The game had potential. The numbers of players doing PVP early on where there. But neglect and no sense of balance has killed it all over the years. DR was simply the pistol shot to the back of the head as a finisher.
Don't you mean PVE? It doesn't take much to do well against MOOK NPCs that let you beat them up while barely doing anything in return
There's no sense in talking about how well you did in PVE when the AI in this game is TRIBBLE.
so worth a bitter lulz :rolleyes:... see op: here u got one of the reasons pvp never got the attention dev-side that was promised. clueless, unbased comments on something that doesn't even bother them. if u ever hear about those "bad-mouth-pvp'ers" plz recall that troll-post
indeed pvp'ers adapted to everything one could adapt to, up to the point (dr) where any chance of adaption got erased by new powers and gear.
and a big trolololol on that other FAN-post. nice try dude
Hello Kitty Island is way too hard for you, how ever.. I think neopets might be right up your alley how ever!
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
I cant believe that people actually belive this meanwhile every mission in the game has you killing things! but other people? that's where we draw the line because we are star trek fans!! haha this is the most laughable argument that has been popping up on the forums lately as to why there is no pvp and it's absolutely the dumbest argument i have ever heard in the five years of this game has been around! how can anyone type that with a straight face
"cryptic knows this is true" hahaha
Many of us left because it's unplayable, unless you do it in specific channels or with friends.
yeah but it's because we are star trek fans and don't believe in pvp lol
"cryptic knows this it true"
Quoted for truth. I've played a lot of MMO's and when you run out of PvE content to conquer you inevitably find yourself in PvP. STO is one of the first MMO's I've played where this isn't the case. Over the years I've seen it go from decent to terribad to unplayable.
Obviously, Cryptic doesn't care because outside of adding shuttle PvP they have done almost nothing to improve the situation. Instead they have been busy nerfing a lot of stuff and herding everyone into certain content. It's really too bad because there is a lot of potential that is being wasted by their shortsightedness.
Thanks for that channel. T6 intel abilities are just completely unbalanced junk.
it was sarcasm my educated conservative hate monger try reading all the threads before you comment and sound like an idiot but you neo-con's are good at that now go back to watching Nancy Grace
You must have been playing MMOs before UO was out, ie, MU[D|SHe]s. Even then there's some epic tales of hate from that age.
Cuz geko http://priorityonepodcast.com/po208/
No I was just making fun of the "sto players dont pvp because star trek is not about war" claim
I'm on your side of this debate they need to just come out and tell us "there will be no further development" rather then stringing us along as recently as last month claiming it's on the "list"
To whine or not to whine thats the question...no..might as well just do a poster vs poster (pVp)
lol poster vs poster is pretty much whats left
I also apologize for original comment to you, pvp gets so much unwarranted hate it's hard to keep track where it's coming from. Funny thing is most of the hate comes from people who never pvp and fear it for some reason even though they are not forced to play it.