Thought I'd pop in here and explain a little bit about what was going on with the tray UI lag. And I hope this isn't too much programmer technobabble, but I'll try my best.
As a part of the Anniversary update, we made some optimizations to the tray UI so that it wouldn't eat up nearly as much of your CPU as it did before. The effect of these optimizations was pretty drastic, and we were delighted to see that some players reported drastically improved frame rates from the change.
From a very high level standpoint, the way the tray UI worked before is that we would run a full update pass for every single ability in the tray on every single frame. So if you ran the game at 60 fps, each individual ability would update 60 times per second. These updates were very expensive on the CPU. We changed the trays to no longer do that, and to instead only update an ability when some data behind it had changed. Essentially, the tray UI no longer updates on every single frame, it updates on demand, which drastically reduces the CPU overhead of that entire UI.
The problem is that we have to setup that UI to know which pieces of data are important for updating, and we missed (at least, but hopefully only) one important piece of data. This meant that even though some data was changing when you used an ability in the tray, the tray UI wasn't updating like it should have been. It was waiting for some other data to change before doing that.
We're hoping (with fingers crossed) that this change eliminates the tray lag players have been experiencing, while also improving the gameplay experience for players who were dealing with low frame rates due to the heavy CPU overhead of the tray UI.
Thanks for explaining.
I'm glad you're looking into how much of a load UI is in general. (The Boff revamp made quick work with one very laggy part of the UI: The Boff skill screens. Just wanting to level a Boff ability in the previous system slowed the game to a crawl with the previous system. Now the skill tab seems to run fine.)
I hope your efforts will have better results in the future (on ground, the tray lag was getting me killed regularly).
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Thought I'd pop in here and explain a little bit about what was going on with the tray UI lag. And I hope this isn't too much programmer technobabble, but I'll try my best.
As a part of the Anniversary update, we made some optimizations to the tray UI so that it wouldn't eat up nearly as much of your CPU as it did before. The effect of these optimizations was pretty drastic, and we were delighted to see that some players reported drastically improved frame rates from the change.
From a very high level standpoint, the way the tray UI worked before is that we would run a full update pass for every single ability in the tray on every single frame. So if you ran the game at 60 fps, each individual ability would update 60 times per second. These updates were very expensive on the CPU. We changed the trays to no longer do that, and to instead only update an ability when some data behind it had changed. Essentially, the tray UI no longer updates on every single frame, it updates on demand, which drastically reduces the CPU overhead of that entire UI.
The problem is that we have to setup that UI to know which pieces of data are important for updating, and we missed (at least, but hopefully only) one important piece of data. This meant that even though some data was changing when you used an ability in the tray, the tray UI wasn't updating like it should have been. It was waiting for some other data to change before doing that.
We're hoping (with fingers crossed) that this change eliminates the tray lag players have been experiencing, while also improving the gameplay experience for players who were dealing with low frame rates due to the heavy CPU overhead of the tray UI.
So my guess was pretty close. It wasn't that hard to guess; several other players basically said the same thing.
Before the anniversary patch, my frame rate would drop from about 60 FPS to about 20 FPS whenever I opened the "Skills" tab or the "Status" subtab of the "Reputation" tab. This clearly indicates that there was some unoptimized code. There is nothing on those tabs except for text and a few static images. The character "Status" tab didn't suffer from this problem, even though it shows an animated version of my character. After the patch, the "Skills" tab and the "Status" subtab of the "Reputation" tab no longer cause my frame rate to drop.
Other players had complained that the UI reduced their frame rate. They claimed that they could see a significant increase in frame rate when they turned off the UI. See the thread below.
My guess is that before the patch, several parts of the UI would refresh themselves automatically multiple times per second, even if there was no change. This comes at a performance cost, because the computer is doing unnecessary work. If the patch removed this automatic refresh, that would explain the performance increase people are seeing. However, parts of the UI may no longer refresh properly. Ideally, whenever an event updates a UI element, it should trigger that UI element to refresh. My guess is that many of these triggers were never implemented and the system was relying on the automatic refresh to run multiple times per second. That would explain some of the bugs I'm seeing:
It would also explain why the cooldown animations are no longer smooth. There are two cooldown animations:
(a) Self cooldowns are indicated by a rotating clock hand.
(b) Shared cooldowns are indicated by a horizontal line that moves from top to bottom.
There are now discrete jumps in both these animations. My guess is that the animations now refresh only when the number of seconds remaining is updated. The number is decremented once per second, so the animations refresh once per second.
Will your change also fix the cooldown animations? Several people have noted that the animations are no longer smooth.
I've noticed a similar bug with the doff UI. Certain parts in the doff UI do not refresh properly, though moving your mouse pointer over the affected area forces it to refresh. I have not filed a bug report for this issue yet.
Tribble is being brought down for maintenance to update it to build ST.47.20150112a.26.
Resolved an issue which was causing the ability to set quantities to create in R&D to not actually set the quantity correctly such as when attempting to craft multiple PADDs.
Does this fix only let you craft multiples of PADDs? What about the crafting of Omega items? I understand the change to not allow catalysts to be applied to these projects was the reason that the quantity slider got broken, however, this patchnote implies that they only fixed the PADD crafting projects... Can anyone confirm or deny this on the Tribble build?
It's more about the UI updating to reflect what's going on, rather than it is about actually being able to activate abilities.
[snip]
My complaint is say I click X...nothing happens. I click X again. Nothing happens. I beat the Hell out of X long after I'm already dead and watching the Respawn timer...because X never happened.
I agree with this. flyingtarg's post doesn't seem to fully explain the issue that people were seeing. This wan't solely about the UI not registering that abilities had been activating, it was that you could not activate the ability by a mouseclick on the tray at all. What I did notice, however, that keyboard activations of the same powers (1-9, ctrl+1-9, alt+1-9) DID work immediately, even if the UI didn't update accordingly.
I live in hope that this patch will fix the UI lag issue, but from the description I have my doubts that it will. The increased communication into what/why is VERY much appreciated and I also live in hope that this continues...
Any Word on when my Zen and regular Dyson science destroyers will be Fly-able again? Currently they have 2 stations locked out if you guys didn't know.
command level Science, and command level Tactical Cannot be used, and abilities cannot be slotted under any circumstance.
thanks for the bug fixes tho, I much rather u fix the game, over adding more layers of bugs
Seems Salami has already made positive changes to dev communications. Bravo.
Agreed. I could tell the difference about a week before the official announcement. However, this level of explanation is not really/always needed. It's good sometimes but can backfire quickly.
Regardless, there is no such thing as too much communication.
Thought I'd pop in here and explain a little bit about what was going on with the tray UI lag. And I hope this isn't too much programmer technobabble, but I'll try my best.
As a part of the Anniversary update, we made some optimizations to the tray UI so that it wouldn't eat up nearly as much of your CPU as it did before. The effect of these optimizations was pretty drastic, and we were delighted to see that some players reported drastically improved frame rates from the change.
From a very high level standpoint, the way the tray UI worked before is that we would run a full update pass for every single ability in the tray on every single frame. So if you ran the game at 60 fps, each individual ability would update 60 times per second. These updates were very expensive on the CPU. We changed the trays to no longer do that, and to instead only update an ability when some data behind it had changed. Essentially, the tray UI no longer updates on every single frame, it updates on demand, which drastically reduces the CPU overhead of that entire UI.
The problem is that we have to setup that UI to know which pieces of data are important for updating, and we missed (at least, but hopefully only) one important piece of data. This meant that even though some data was changing when you used an ability in the tray, the tray UI wasn't updating like it should have been. It was waiting for some other data to change before doing that.
We're hoping (with fingers crossed) that this change eliminates the tray lag players have been experiencing, while also improving the gameplay experience for players who were dealing with low frame rates due to the heavy CPU overhead of the tray UI.
the biggest issue for me was anything that was "distance" relative. For instance grenades, they never show up as available even if you were say 5 feet away. Hopefully that issue was fixed with the lag.
Good luck getting a response. I been complaining about this since the anniversary event went live and haven't got a single response.
Well I have gotten responses...but they're not exactly helpful.
First they didn't know what I was talking about and told me to create a bug report because this was going unreported. Then they told me it was a error with the new commander abilities, Now they're telling me it's bridge officers...
ITs not a bridge officer issue with dsd's its a Station issue. The Station is locked out at the upper levels x.x
Something I can't help to try to get across. Idk, I think they may be playing dumb with me now.
This was not at all too much technical information, quite the opposite actually.
Knowing why you choose to change things, and how and why those changes cause bugs makes it much easier to put those bugs in context. Without this information, the ui lag seemed like an arbitrary nerf on a system that was working just fine. With this information, the ui lag seems like a reasonable attempt to fix what was an issue for some players, that had an unintended consequence.
Please continue to provide us with as much technical information regarding bugfixes as humanly possible.
Agreed. 100%. If its not too much to ask, I would like to see a technical explanation like this appear for each update that involves bug fixes or changes to systems that seem to be working just fine as they are. I know many players would appreciate knowing why things are being done the way they are, and this is proof that these changes are indeed to better the game.
And I hope this isn't too much programmer technobabble, but I'll try my best.
LOL, remember friend that you are conversing with not only gamers, but also Star Trek fans. We don't just speak technobabble, we live it!
Your explanation was spot on and exactly the type of communication I personally would like to see more of. It explained specifically why the problem occurred and what the corrective steps need to be. Knowing why the change was implemented also helps make it easier to deal with. Everyone wants better framerates and ultimately the tray lag will be a small price to pay for that.
Tribble is being brought down for maintenance to update it to build ST.47.20150112a.26.
General:
Resolved an issue which was causing a delay in the power tray UI when clicking on a power that has a countdown timer.
This will also resolve a number of other minor delays in the UI.
Resolved an issue which was causing the ability to set quantities to create in R&D to not actually set the quantity correctly such as when attempting to craft multiple PADDs.
Resolved an issue that prevented the Vaadwaur Manasa Escort [T6] from receiving its Starship Mastery buffs.
Resolved an issue which was causing icons in the space power tray to be off center.
Added audio which was missing from a few Vaadwaur ground weapons.
The power Evade Target Lock III now correctly appears as a space power.
Resolved an issue which was causing the Vaadwaur Astika Heavy Battlecruisers shields to display damage on the opposite of where the damage is coming from.
Resolved an issue causing the Kobali Arm Attachments on males to have color choices that were not working.
Resolved an issue causing the Kobali Boots on males to have color choices that were not working.
Known Issues:
Foundry functions are not available at this time.
A few lines of VO are missing from the episode Taris.
The Captains chair on the bridge on the APU ship cannot be sat in.
KDF players do not appear in the scoreboard at the end of a PVP match.
Thought I'd pop in here and explain a little bit about what was going on with the tray UI lag. And I hope this isn't too much programmer technobabble, but I'll try my best.
As a part of the Anniversary update, we made some optimizations to the tray UI so that it wouldn't eat up nearly as much of your CPU as it did before. The effect of these optimizations was pretty drastic, and we were delighted to see that some players reported drastically improved frame rates from the change.
From a very high level standpoint, the way the tray UI worked before is that we would run a full update pass for every single ability in the tray on every single frame. So if you ran the game at 60 fps, each individual ability would update 60 times per second. These updates were very expensive on the CPU. We changed the trays to no longer do that, and to instead only update an ability when some data behind it had changed. Essentially, the tray UI no longer updates on every single frame, it updates on demand, which drastically reduces the CPU overhead of that entire UI.
The problem is that we have to setup that UI to know which pieces of data are important for updating, and we missed (at least, but hopefully only) one important piece of data. This meant that even though some data was changing when you used an ability in the tray, the tray UI wasn't updating like it should have been. It was waiting for some other data to change before doing that.
We're hoping (with fingers crossed) that this change eliminates the tray lag players have been experiencing, while also improving the gameplay experience for players who were dealing with low frame rates due to the heavy CPU overhead of the tray UI.
*GASP* :eek:
A Wild Dev Appears! He uses Effect Communication! It's SUPER EFFECTIVE! He's Charging Bug Fix!
I'll just drop some Applause here. Well done. Targs Fly, Bugs get fixed, Devs are talking to us again. The 2015 forecast appears to be showing rays of light through the clouds.
im sure i am not the only one that loves techobabble!
Of course, we're Star Trek Fans. This is the place where technobabble was born.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
As a part of the Anniversary update, we made some optimizations to the tray UI so that it wouldn't eat up nearly as much of your CPU as it did before. The effect of these optimizations was pretty drastic, and we were delighted to see that some players reported drastically improved frame rates from the change.
Just passing by to say thank you for the fix. Before the anniversary I could get 30 fps only in really desert areas. Now 30 fps is the norm, often going in the range of 40-50 fps. Really, thank you very much!!!
Pre-forum change name: Captain Wilhelm Join Date: March 2009
Thanks Cryptic for introducing the Kelvin Timeline. It remembered why I decided to never more put any money on this game.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I have to say, sure it's great that people playing on an abacus are doing better now - but I was playing on a toaster and playing fine until the anniversary update and what was done. It's still all but impossible to play the game with anybody else - and - it's only playable in solo missions because nothing is any kind of threat that requires hitting an ability with any kind of timing. Of all the things that have been done in STO, this has been the most frustrating. There's no decrease/increase in FPS, there's no decrease/increase in memory or CPU utilization...there's nothing that I can point to the problem and say, "there it is"...outside of the simple inability to do anything in a timely fashion regarding the UI. I'm really getting sick and tired of dying when I've got four or five heals there that I'm trying to activate and simply can't activate a single one of them. It's just not fun playing in molasses like this.
Comments
Thanks for explaining.
I'm glad you're looking into how much of a load UI is in general. (The Boff revamp made quick work with one very laggy part of the UI: The Boff skill screens. Just wanting to level a Boff ability in the previous system slowed the game to a crawl with the previous system. Now the skill tab seems to run fine.)
I hope your efforts will have better results in the future (on ground, the tray lag was getting me killed regularly).
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
So my guess was pretty close. It wasn't that hard to guess; several other players basically said the same thing.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=22012081&postcount=17
Will your change also fix the cooldown animations? Several people have noted that the animations are no longer smooth.
I've noticed a similar bug with the doff UI. Certain parts in the doff UI do not refresh properly, though moving your mouse pointer over the affected area forces it to refresh. I have not filed a bug report for this issue yet.
Does this fix only let you craft multiples of PADDs? What about the crafting of Omega items? I understand the change to not allow catalysts to be applied to these projects was the reason that the quantity slider got broken, however, this patchnote implies that they only fixed the PADD crafting projects... Can anyone confirm or deny this on the Tribble build?
I agree with this. flyingtarg's post doesn't seem to fully explain the issue that people were seeing. This wan't solely about the UI not registering that abilities had been activating, it was that you could not activate the ability by a mouseclick on the tray at all. What I did notice, however, that keyboard activations of the same powers (1-9, ctrl+1-9, alt+1-9) DID work immediately, even if the UI didn't update accordingly.
I live in hope that this patch will fix the UI lag issue, but from the description I have my doubts that it will. The increased communication into what/why is VERY much appreciated and I also live in hope that this continues...
...#LLAP...
command level Science, and command level Tactical Cannot be used, and abilities cannot be slotted under any circumstance.
thanks for the bug fixes tho, I much rather u fix the game, over adding more layers of bugs
Thanks, this sounds great and wasn't technobabblish at all! Looking forward to this change on holodeck!
Thank you very much. Nice to see that on top of the list
Agreed. I could tell the difference about a week before the official announcement. However, this level of explanation is not really/always needed. It's good sometimes but can backfire quickly.
Regardless, there is no such thing as too much communication.
the biggest issue for me was anything that was "distance" relative. For instance grenades, they never show up as available even if you were say 5 feet away. Hopefully that issue was fixed with the lag.
Well I have gotten responses...but they're not exactly helpful.
First they didn't know what I was talking about and told me to create a bug report because this was going unreported. Then they told me it was a error with the new commander abilities, Now they're telling me it's bridge officers...
ITs not a bridge officer issue with dsd's its a Station issue. The Station is locked out at the upper levels x.x
Something I can't help to try to get across. Idk, I think they may be playing dumb with me now.
Agreed. 100%. If its not too much to ask, I would like to see a technical explanation like this appear for each update that involves bug fixes or changes to systems that seem to be working just fine as they are. I know many players would appreciate knowing why things are being done the way they are, and this is proof that these changes are indeed to better the game.
LOL, remember friend that you are conversing with not only gamers, but also Star Trek fans. We don't just speak technobabble, we live it!
Your explanation was spot on and exactly the type of communication I personally would like to see more of. It explained specifically why the problem occurred and what the corrective steps need to be. Knowing why the change was implemented also helps make it easier to deal with. Everyone wants better framerates and ultimately the tray lag will be a small price to pay for that.
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
Can't wait to see this on Holodeck. :cool:
*GASP* :eek:
A Wild Dev Appears! He uses Effect Communication! It's SUPER EFFECTIVE! He's Charging Bug Fix!
I'll just drop some Applause here. Well done. Targs Fly, Bugs get fixed, Devs are talking to us again. The 2015 forecast appears to be showing rays of light through the clouds.
Of course, we're Star Trek Fans. This is the place where technobabble was born.
Just passing by to say thank you for the fix. Before the anniversary I could get 30 fps only in really desert areas. Now 30 fps is the norm, often going in the range of 40-50 fps. Really, thank you very much!!!
Join Date: March 2009
Thanks Cryptic for introducing the Kelvin Timeline. It remembered why I decided to never more put any money on this game.
Bug Fix Hit for 400 HP!