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Subsystem targeting /cruiser commands
questerius
Member Posts: 8,485 Arc User
One of the defining features of science vessels is the combination of innate subsystem targeting and sensor analyses.
I cannot speak for anyone else, but i rarely use SST and part of that is that i have to actively activate it during battles.
Would making SST into a passive system like the cruiser commands (choose one and stick with that boost until selecting another) make them more interesting to the crowd in STO?
I cannot speak for anyone else, but i rarely use SST and part of that is that i have to actively activate it during battles.
Would making SST into a passive system like the cruiser commands (choose one and stick with that boost until selecting another) make them more interesting to the crowd in STO?
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
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But would it stack with your regular phaser disables or trigger the targets immunity as well?
Everyone would select Target Shields all the tine making science shios maybe a bit too op ?
Taking shields offline doing this can knock out even a cruiser class ship within that time frame.
Even if you actively use SST, would turning SST into a passive not reduce the overall workload in game? That alone would make this change worth it.
Tho Tactical Bridge officers have access to SST so it would be usable on any ship to some degree. I must admit i would seriously consider SST on a bridge officer if it was a passive that did not block BO or FAW.
I don't think that when Picard orders Worf to "disable their engines" that only the next shot Worf takes is designated to do that.
Perhaps the BO and BFAW could reduce the effectiveness of the SST in some way, or vice versa?
Very few science vessels have the engineering boff and tactical slots to make BFAW worth it.
Science gains it's strength from other abilities.
It would be completely overpowered. With each shot you would have a 100% chance of taking out a subsystem. It would be far worse than the situation we had with phasers before the proc nerf. At least with the phaser proc it was only a small chance of occurring.
Think about that.
EVERY SHOT.
There would be no balance, and no counter since it would be a passive ability.
You could pretty much permanently shut down another player's ship in PvP combat, or just sit and lock down even elite ships in PvE.
The Federation which has pretty much a buffet of science ships would have an unbeatable advantage over pretty much anything.
Do you really need more "I win"?
You can file this under bad ideas, and just manually press the power activation.
The innate SST on science vessels is equal to a rank 1 SST
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Beam_Target_Auxiliary_Subsystems
That means for target aux it is:
75% Weapon Damage
-24 Auxiliary Power Setting
20% Chance to Disable Auxiliary systems
Where on earth did you get a 100% chance from and the perceived balance issue?
Except that's not how subsytem targeting works. While every shot would drain a substyem, there is only a percentage change of knocking the system offliine. Basically the previous comment that it would be adding a phaser proc to every shot, was a more accurate way of looking at it.
Changing it to a passive would "fix" this complication, actually. Right now they are on a shared timer, so that using subsystem targeting is often a poor trade off to the other beam abilities. By making it a passive proc, you eliminate that trade off.
With some tweaking of the numbers (e.g. 100% dmg, -20 to system, 10% chance of disable) I'd love this change. My guess, however, is that Cryptic has bought heavily into the "sci ships get their dps from exotic damage" and won't do anything to make sci beam boats more attractive. For proof, look at the lack of tac consoles in the T6 science ship lineup.
Have you ever gotten hit by 2 or more of this power in succession?
It's how the net effect would work out. There is no cool down to energy weapon fire.
When your power reaches 0 on a subsystem it is offline.
Lets say you select the shield version.
75% Weapon Damage
-24 Shields Power Setting For 15 Seconds
20% Chance to Disable Shields systems
Modified by:
Skills
Starship Weapons Training - Improves all weapon damage.
Starship Energy Weapons - Improves energy weapons.
Starship Targeting Systems - Improves all weapon accuracy.
Starship Energy Weapon Specialization - Improves Critical Hit chance and Critical Hit
Starship Flow Capacitors - Improves power drain abilities.
Every shot you fire would have that effect. The power drain would be cumulative.
Lets say you have 100 shield power.
First beam weapon fired: -24 shield power and 20% shield offline chance. (shield power 76)
Second beam weapon fired: -24 shield power and 20% shield offline chance. (shield power 52)
Third beam weapon fired: -24 shield power and 20% shield offline chance. (shield power 28)
Fourth beam weapon fired: -24 shield power and 20% shield offline chance. (shield power 4)
This is a single firing cycle with just 4 beam weapons. Imagine if all six slots were were beams (this is supposing this is an average science vessel not including ships like the Jem hadar Dreadnaught that also have subsytem targeting). This also does NOT include any adjustments made for flow capacitors bonus. If those beams used were any version of polaron or tetryon weapons, then the effect is stacked on top of the weapon proc.
Polarized disruptors
Phased tetryon
Phased polaron
refracting tetryon
This is just looking at shields. You could do the same for engines/weapons/aux. You wouldn't need a beam fire at will unless you wanted to shut down a group.
I have been hit with multiple phaser procs before they introduced the phaser proc nerf. It sucked. There were times when I had multiple subsystems go down at the same time, and simply became a target.
And guess what? Players would not be the only ones to benefit. NPC science ships would end up with this too. The tholians would just shut you down, such that the only thing you could do is go make sandwich. The forums would melt down from players screaming for nerfs the first time they got hit with this.
You can imagine how fun this would be in PvP.
Everyone would be flying a ship that has this. It would be the new "must have" ability. Imagine 4 science ships in a queued mission, each one with a different subsystem selected.
Bear in mind that I am not attacking you or trying to be combative. I want to illustrate the unpleasant result that this would bring.
The ability as it stands is not broken or overpowered. It's not that hard to select the ability to use.
I agree it's not hard to select the ability. The problem, such as it is, is that for those who like their beam abilities, it's usually better to use either BO or SS then "waste" a cool down on a subsystem targeting ability. Your maths make it clear that a proc on EVERY shot isn't feasible, and I apologize for not thinking through that. Seems like there could be a timer or other sort of limiter on the proc, however. I'm flexible on the number crunching, as removing subsystem targeting from the same cool down as other beam abilities is the real goal.
Highlighted the key here.
When described that way, I could see making it akin to a fixed console like ability, like the Dreadnaught lance. Make it separate, apart from the current subsystem targeting abilities. This way, you wouldn't be tied to the cooldown of the other beam abilities and, it would keep it's current capability, and would be adjustable without affecting the other subsystem targeting skills. It would still be an active ship ability with a cooldown.
Even if NPC's got this it would still be managable because of the cooldown.
I think it would be an acceptable adjustment, without being obnoxious.
You make a strong argument, but it's not accurate.
The numbers in the wiki and in your calculation do not take certain items into account. Items which are quite significant.
First of all: The drain is reduced by power insulators and this is one of the first things people invest in for serious PVP
Second item is that the power management is not a static, but rather a dynamic system. The power drain would never reach the levels you describe.
Third item: required PVP. Plasmonic leech
Fourth item is the short immunity after a disable.
There are probably other items with significant impact. Overall there's enough to counter the OP ability argument though.
I invest heavily in flow caps for PVP.
The drain I get from sci ship subsystem targeting is very significant and often requires no help at all to bring another players subsystem offline. (without the % proc)
Timed with a polaron proc, or energy syphon and tykens rift it is a key component in my strategy to disable even the most heavily power buffed opponent.
The key is usually to make use of either target aux, or target engines to reduce a skilled opponents capability to negate the effect of other drains.
Power insulators is only a real hindrance if you don't go 'all in' with your flow caps. But a flow build is a lot like a dps build. You don't have to go 'all in' but why wouldn't you?
As it stands subsystem targeting is admittedly pointless in PvE. But I should hate to lose it in PVP. If it were turned into a sustainable effect I should also hate it, for no one would stay in the arena and fight me. Frankly I have a difficult enough time finding people to duel me more then once as is.
What I would like to see is a change to allow subsystem targeting to work with all energy weapon types. Why exactly cant I target a cannon or a turret at a specific point on a hull any way? Whats a targeting computer for?
Firstly, the main effect of Subsystem Targeting is not the chance to disable, it's the always-applied drain on the subsystem, which scales with Flow Capacitors. Secondary Deflectors now have mods that increase the chance to disable. And there are doffs which enable the ability to randomly disable an 'extra' subsystem. As in, Two Subsystems.
Secondly, don't think of the abilities in a vacuum. Science Captains have long had to combine multiple abilities to get a usable effect, rather than relying on ZOMG FAW3!!!!
Take note of the above.
Take any given Science ship, preferably with a Commander and Lt Commander Science.
Use Tyken's Rift, Energy Syphon, and Viral Matrix. Use Subsystem Targeting of your choice, for our purposes engines is optimal.
Now, if you have the doff that makes Subsystem Targeting randomly disable an extra, you can add the doff that makes Energy Syphon randomly disable a system. And use Viral Matrix doff that allows it to spread to multiple enemies.
You have a ship that can virtually cripple an enemy. Sensor Analysis now, by a percentage, increases abilities that drain power or shields from the enemy. often you don't need to use Flow Capacitors at all on your ship to drain the TRIBBLE out of an enemy. Thus you can us Energy Syphon + Tyken's Rift + Subsystem Targeting: Engines. Remove a target's engines, to force them to stay in your Tyken's Rift, which will gradually drain their power to zero. Meanwhile your Viral Matrix/Subsystem Targeting/Energy Syphon Disables. Are disabling their subsystems one after another. This works well with a Deteriorating Secondary Deflector, because all those abilities except Subsystem Targeting now have a damage component added to them. Also note, that while Gravity Well may "Do more damage" its damage is dependent on how close the enemy is to the center, Tyken's Rift's is not. Full damage, no matter where in the area effect they are located.
Not saying it's a bad build, but the way STO is designed currently, it's not a good DPS build. Pity as I like the alternative builds, they just don't match up to others until a balance pass is done over the whole space combat side of the game.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
I would take it a step beyond that. Not just energy weapons, but torpedoes as well.