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  • anthagornanthagorn Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    bridgern wrote: »
    Also keep in mind just because a ship for example like the Excelsior class is using an old hull design does not mean it does not use the latest available technology on the inside. A good example the USS Pegasus was a testbed for technology later used on the Galaxy class and the USS Lakota was upgraded to be competitive to the Defiant class.

    The reason why the Enterprise-D and the Odyssey were destroyed were simply plot reasons.

    The USS Lakota wasn't competitive with the USS Defiant. The Defiant never shot back for obvious reasons and took a pounding from the Lakota for several minutes. Had the Defiant actually bothered to shoot back, that battle would have been very different.

    Also, the Enterprise D's destruction was nonsense. They couldn't think of a good way to do it so they Deus Ex Machina'd it. The punishment the Odyssey takes without shields and the punishment the Galaxy class ships take in various battles throughout the Dominion war kinda demonstrates the the Ent-D went out in kitten mode :)
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,714 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    gonalius wrote: »
    It was an armed ship operating in another species space. It was exactly the same as if a Bird-Of-Prey had been found lurking on the wrong side of the Neutral Zone.

    It was retreating...running away and it didn't open fire first did it?

    There is a difference between being in unknown space and being in clearly mapped out and established space.

    Lets face it...the only reason those Runabouts survived was to attempt to get a spy on our side of the wormhole.

    If that isn't needlessly and overtly aggressive and war declaring I don't know what is...
    #WithoutRespectWeReject
  • adverberoadverbero Member Posts: 2,045 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I'm not a big fan of the Galaxy myself, too big for its own good really. Over engineered, and frequently too complex for its own good. more than a few times it succeeds thanks to plot device, as much as plot device is used to kill it in the end ( oh the delicious irony )

    And the comparison between the standard Galaxy and its yesterdays enterprise alternate reality counterpart shows how differently it would have been built for combat duty

    But in fairness, the Dominion War saw several refits of the class to bring their combat effectiveness up to par.
    And i'd expect they underwent a bit of internal remodeling to remove lots of the unnecessary internal labs , most likely replacing them with additional medical facilities or torpedo stowage making them extremely valuable fleet assets
    lianthelia wrote: »
    Humans love to build bigger and better things and move on...other races don't...do you really think those Xinidi, Romulan, Klingon, or any other races ships are the exact models from centuries ago? Built with centuries old technology?

    Every time I see posts that defend why ships like the NX and Connie should be T5/T6 facts like I pointed out they seem to ignore...

    Indeed

    But I'll concede it is an ambiguous point to argue
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  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited February 2015
    gonalius wrote: »
    Sophisticated does not mean powerful. It was more a Jack-of-all-Trades, not a warship, not a science vessel, not an exploratory scout, but the best compromise of just about every conceivable use the creators could ret-con it to be.


    According to the Tech manuals the Galaxy was the most powerful warship of its day beating out the Klingons and romulans in defense and firepower

    plus the research
    plus the luxery accomadations
    plus the long range

    It was a warship anytime they needed it to be

    Read a tech manual
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

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  • gpgtxgpgtx Member Posts: 1,574 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    eldarion79 wrote: »
    Actually, we have never seen a Galaxy being destroyed in the Dominion War. Just a damaged USS Galaxy during the Battle of Chin'toka.

    Though we have seen a number of Akiras and Mirandas biting the bullet.


    and the USS Galaxy was fixed and was part of battle group omega in nemesis
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  • bridgernbridgern Member Posts: 706 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    anthagorn wrote: »
    The USS Lakota wasn't competitive with the USS Defiant. The Defiant never shot back for obvious reasons and took a pounding from the Lakota for several minutes. Had the Defiant actually bothered to shoot back, that battle would have been very different.

    Also, the Enterprise D's destruction was nonsense. They couldn't think of a good way to do it so they Deus Ex Machina'd it. The punishment the Odyssey takes without shields and the punishment the Galaxy class ships take in various battles throughout the Dominion war kinda demonstrates the the Ent-D went out in kitten mode :)

    You should rewatch the battle, the Lakota took out 40% of the Defiant's shields with the first shot.
    Bridger.png
  • gonaliusgonalius Member Posts: 892 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    lianthelia wrote: »
    There is a difference between being in unknown space and being in clearly mapped out and established space.

    Its not unknown space to The Dominion. The real-life equivalent would be to send a tank into North Korea.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    gonalius wrote: »
    It was an armed ship operating in another species space. It was exactly the same as if a Bird-Of-Prey had been found lurking on the wrong side of the Neutral Zone.

    I'm not 100% sure on this so I can be wrong, but I believe that at the time when the Federation (and the Ferengi before them) first explored the Gamma Quadrnat, the space in the proximity of the wormhole on the other side was not claimed by the Dominion. It's after they realized that the factions of the Alpha Quadrant are comming through and some even colonizing in the Gamma Quadrant, they decided to put claims on that region of space.
    blitzy4 wrote: »
    Now we know why they won't give us a connie, the older the ship is the better it is. Shpoks is a genius for figuring it out. :D

    LOL :D Fear the end-game NX!!! For it will be the first ship with 6 tactical consoles and 6/3 weapons layout. :P :D

    But seriously, it's not that the ships get better the older they are - it's because Cryptic has shoehorned the gameplay into a very tight pipeline, so some ships built for roles that don't support high levels of DPS have become redundant. That and too many skills of a type in the Boff layout, while too little diversity of abilities that don't trip over each other to choose from.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    It was a mighty ship in its day.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • gpgtxgpgtx Member Posts: 1,574 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    eldarion79 wrote: »
    Actually, we have never seen a Galaxy being destroyed in the Dominion War. Just a damaged USS Galaxy during the Battle of Chin'toka.

    Though we have seen a number of Akiras and Mirandas biting the bullet.
    shpoks wrote: »
    I'm not 100% sure on this so I can be wrong, but I believe that at the time when the Federation (and the Ferengi before them) first explored the Gamma Quadrnat, the space in the proximity of the wormhole on the other side was not claimed by the Dominion. It's after they realized that the factions of the Alpha Quadrant are comming through and some even colonizing in the Gamma Quadrant, they decided to put claims on that region of space.



    LOL :D Fear the end-game NX!!! For it will be the first ship with 6 tactical consoles and 6/3 weapons layout. :P :D

    But seriously, it's not that the ships get better the older they are - it's because Cryptic has showhorned the gameplay into a very tight pipeline, so some ships built for roles that don't support high levels of DPS have become redundant. That and too many skills of a type in the Boff layout, while too little diversity of abilities that don't trip over each other to choose from.



    pfff end game phoenix best ship ever with 12 weapons for and aft and and 3 port starboard
    and 40 tac console slots
    victoriasig_zps23c45368.jpg
  • mynameisnommynameisnom Member Posts: 639 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    eldarion79 wrote: »
    Actually, we have never seen a Galaxy being destroyed in the Dominion War. Just a damaged USS Galaxy during the Battle of Chin'toka.

    Though we have seen a number of Akiras and Mirandas biting the bullet.

    Wrong. That old dude got his galaxy popped to bits when some jemmy bugs shot it to hell then rammed it straight in the noggin and there's your galaxy goin poof. Watch ds9
    [SIGPIC]http://s286.photobucket.com/user/parasite_12000/media/jub_zps9318ae82.jpg.html[/SIGPIC]
    stoutes wrote: »
    Those fish are much like their masters, filthy backstabbers... All battlecloaked fish, waiting for the right moment...
    The boss being a gigantic Winter Epohh Researcher. As you lay waste to the Epohh Horde, she can occasionally cry out things like, "Didn't you want an Epohh friend?"
  • gpgtxgpgtx Member Posts: 1,574 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Wrong. That old dude got his galaxy popped to bits when some jemmy bugs shot it to hell then rammed it straight in the noggin and there's your galaxy goin poof. Watch ds9


    that was NOT during the war the war did not officially start until they attacked DS9
    victoriasig_zps23c45368.jpg
  • nicha0nicha0 Member Posts: 1,456 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Defiant delayed shooting back, both sides were reluctant to use torpedos because of casualties. Given maneuverability advantage the defiant would have landed shots the Lakota might not have got off a lot.

    Ent D didn't explode because of real hull damage from that bird of prey, it lost containment, like in 30 other episodes. Really bad writing crutch they used constantly and just eventually it became canon that Galaxy classes had design problems with containment.
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  • jer5488jer5488 Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Wrong. That old dude got his galaxy popped to bits when some jemmy bugs shot it to hell then rammed it straight in the noggin and there's your galaxy goin poof. Watch ds9

    Except for the following:

    1: The Galaxy had shields that weren't tuned to Polaron weapons - they went right through.

    2: They dropped shields and transferred power to weapons and the hull was doing JUST fine taking their energy weapon damage as they tangoed.

    3: The ship was fully capable of performing a tactical withdraw - the bugs couldn't bring it down with conventional fighting - and had to suicide run to take it out to 'make their point'.

    4: We had to see a hero ship destroyed for the Dominion threat to be made to the viewer. DS9 at the time had no hero ship, so they picked a Galaxy because that's the Best the Federation had. Even the Borg called the Galaxy class 'Starfleet's most powerful vessel' during Best of Both Worlds.

    5: The Enterprise was destroyed because they wanted a more action oriented ship for the later movies, and it was the only way to do it. That and the ship that invented 'rotate shield frequencies' came down with a serious case of the dumbass.

    And the problem with the 'Well the Intrepid and Defiant are still fine! Why don't they need upgraded!' is '3 tac ensign powers doesn't cause a useless overlap'. 3 science ensign powers doesn't cause a useless overlap. Well 3 Eng powers DOES. There just aren't enough engineering powers to justify that many low level engineering stations, and every good idea players give them to fix it, they use to make a new starship to sell for 30 bucks a piece.
  • ir0ncladbravoir0ncladbravo Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    valoreah wrote: »
    You could argue that the loss of U.S.S. Odyssey was the first casualty of the Dominion War.

    The loss of the Odyssey was the Jem'hadar/Dominion showing how far it would go by making a suicide run at it to destroy it even though it was in retreat. And yes it was the first capital loss to Starfleet.
    Everytime I see complaints about the same thing
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • anthagornanthagorn Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Defiant didn't shoot back?? I don't think you were watching the same thing as everyone else!

    Quite right, just re-watched it. Don't know why I thought it didn't. Should have known with Captain Shoot-All in command that it would have shot back. Still, the Excelsior took their port shields only down with it's first shot. The defiant still took a pounding.
  • abystander0abystander0 Member Posts: 648 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    In another thread, someone complained about the Galaxy class in game being a "gimped Titanic" and wanted a better one. That sentiment is one I've seen a lot, with people who grew up on TNG having an attachment to that ship and wanting it to be made as a viable endgame ship if not THE main flagship as it was lo those decades ago when TNG was still on the air. My reply to him was as follows:



    Now I won't deny I hate the Galaxy and have from the first moment I laid eyes on it in 1987. I feel it's hideously ugly and the design principles both inside and out were misguided at best. I grew up on TOS, but I immediately recognized the Constitution refit as vastly superior to the original and the Excelsior as better still. I fell in love with the Sovereign at first sight as it corrected virtually every design mistake made with Galaxy and restored grace and beauty to the Enterprise line.

    But even if the Galaxy was an amazing ship, she's still vastly outdated just like my beloved Refit Enterprise from TMP and TWOK. Time moves on and beloved ships get outdated and replaced by modern designs. That's how it works. It happens to cars too. Why can't some people accept that and move on from the Galaxy, especially when the Guardian exists to represent the Ambassador / Galaxy design lineage in the modern setting?

    Oh lord, you were looking for a fight...weren't you.

    lol

    As you can see, some people are in love with this ship, and you are simply opening old wounds by bringing this up (again). Everyone has their favorite ship in a franchise, especially this one (Star Trek) that is defined by the ships.

    For some, like me, it is an ungainly and ugly spacewhale. Yet for others, it is the most amazing space battleship ever created, and people are stupid for not realizing this and properly worshiping it (or would that be warshipping)?

    You have engaged the angry fandom at your peril.
  • hyperionx09hyperionx09 Member Posts: 1,709 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    starswordc wrote: »
    Why is there a T5 Excelsior? That hunk of junk's twice as old as the GCS and was getting blown out of the sky left and right during the Dominion War, whereas Starfleet never lost a single GCS on-screen after the Odyssey. And the Kumari and Narcine date back to the 2150s.
    Excelsior is due to one of the previous Cryptic heads having a major love for that ship and begging and negotiating with CBS to allow for a T5 variant.

    The Kumari and Narcine follow the same standards as the KDF; same external; upgraded internals.

    Starfleet follows a very different philosophy, in which they continuously create new designs to fit ever increasing roles, rather than keep ultra-specialist ships.

    As far as it ever getting a T6 variant; the most it'll get is a similar setup to the Pathfinder. Ensign Eng switched to Lt. Uni, and probably the Lt. Tac made Lt Tac/Hybrid. Which would allow for a theoretical 4 Tac skills (2 Lt seats).

    And that won't happen until they have a new episode series to star the ship the way they did the Intrepid. The Devs themselves stated that they chose to fully market the T6 Intrepid/Pathfinder as they spent a fair amount of asset time on it for Delta Rising's episodes. Otherwise, they intend to stick to their plans of releasing newer original designs that are hybrids or descendants of older ships (their notable statement "We have no plans to release T6 versions of existing ships at this time").

    And even then, it's not a guarantee; the Scimitar got an interior layout with one of the recent DR episodes, yet Cryptic has refused to release the interior to existing owners of the ships. Same applies to the Tal Shiar Adapted Battlecruiser, and that one's a Lobi item.

    At this rate though; it's more likely we'll see a return to DS9 and the starring of the Defiant in a T6 iteration before a new T6 Galaxy. And the Defiant would likely also match the Pathfinder in seat adjustments; Ensign Tac -> Lt Uni and Lt Sci -> Lt Sci/Hybrid. Why? Because aside from the Galaxy fanbase, there's an equally notable fanbase that clamors for more DS9 content and Cardassian conflicts. And if Cryptic went that route, they can round out a Cardassian console 3-set (via 2 new Cardassian ships; 1 new T6 Lobi and 1 new T6 Lockbox) AND a Defiant 3-pack at the same time (the Defiant is sitting on 2 of 3 variants for an eventual 3 pack (and would undoubtedly come with new interiors if ever made), which results in a perfect storm of monetary influx.

    Don't get me wrong; I fully expect a T6 version of the Galaxy (and all other T5 ships) in the future; but it's a matter of how (what storyline would feature it) and when (reliant on Cryptic's future plans). It's guaranteed they'd make money off it regardless; the Pathfinder proved it (regardless of whether it was the bundle pack or the limited time T6 Ship+Extras pack). As well, the Galaxy is sitting on 2 of 3 variants needed for a Galaxy Cruiser 3-pack (which will no doubt come with new interiors if they're made as well). So there's potential monetary there.

    And the reason they could, in theory, release a T6 Defiant or Galaxy now is that there would be no conflicts if they're of the Command Specialization. They're just going to have the same Lt. Hybrid for Command, which won't put them into conflict with the Phantom or Guardian. Of course, that's provided Cryptic doesn't release a Specialized equivalent (the way the Phantom was to the Defiant; thus no reason to market a T6 Defiant "at this time") or a similar hybrid non-Spec equivalent (the way the Guardian is to the Ambassador/Galaxy; thus no reason to market a T6 version of either "at this time").
  • crusader2007crusader2007 Member Posts: 1,768 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    In another thread, someone complained about the Galaxy class in game being a "gimped Titanic" and wanted a better one.

    Another galaxy thread? It is a titanic in space and looks like a grandma's ship :eek:

    I rather be cruising with a temporal destroyer or a cool looking pathfinder. :D
    DUwNP.gif

  • hyperionx09hyperionx09 Member Posts: 1,709 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Don't worry; the future T6 Galaxy will come with a unique color scheme: "Titanic", and will have a new and original saucer shape that has the rough trapezoidal shape of the Titanic's hull from a side view, and have 4 clusters of antennas that loosely mimic the 4 smokestacks of the Titanic from a side-view as well. All claiming of the ship defaults to Titanic or one of its sister ships' names, and the Titanic color scheme.

    It will also come with a unique bridge that mimics the bow of the Titanic; and you can recreate the "Jack, I'm flying!" scene.

    But unlike the original, it will truly be unsinkable. After you equip the Kobali Cruiser Console and Kobali Cruiser set. Or to save yourself the grief, just use a Kobali Cruiser and the full Kobali set once its available. It'll still do the job better than a T6 Galaxy ever would.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    paxdawn wrote: »
    Well, the Galaxy R is still competitive even for elite STFs. The only thing preventing Galaxy R success to the masses is lack of knowledge, build and piloting skill. A Galaxy R should hit 50k-75k which is sufficient for all elite content.

    The only reason you wouldnt pick a Galaxy R because of its performance is if you are aiming for DPS Prime, which is so far only reserved for 2 ships.

    paxdawn, sorry if you already did this somewhere before and I've missed it, but could you possibly share a build capable of the 50k-70k you're talking about?

    And also a few questions:

    - Does this 50-75k refer to a Galaxy in combination of an extremely coordinated team featuring Scimitars or APB stacking or is it standalone for various combinations of ships/players?
    - Do you think this or similar can be achieved by using plain standard (elite fleet) phasers, without using any Borg TRIBBLE on the ship and without using the Intel specialzation?

    I'm not being an TRIBBLE here, I'm genuinely asking to see if I can improve something on my ship. However I'm here for the Star Trek first and foremost, so I tend to be peculiar about what I use and like to keep a canon setup, that's why all the "only phasers, no Borg TRIBBLE" stuff. :o
    Currently my Galaxy can pull some 20-25k DPS on average without me trying too much and taking into consideration that my char is not lvl 60 yet and is still not specced in anything.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • supergirl1611supergirl1611 Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Seriously i often wonder those of you that slate the Galaxy Class and label it as a luxury liner actually ever watched Star Trek from TNG through to Voyager. Jeez,

    The ship at launch had the most powerful phasers arrays ever equipped to a starship, only a starbase had more powerful arrays.

    The torpedo tubes and torpedo's she was equipped with were better than anything before her.

    Fastest Ship in the fleet until Voyager then Prometheus

    Most power warp core

    Most powerful shield grind.



    During TNG when the Romulans reappear the Ent-D is sent to the neutral zone stated that Starfleet expected the Romulans to send their best so Starfleet sent their best. And spent time postering on the Neutral zone boarder.

    Best of Both Worlds. Rather than wait for fleet reinforcements and patrol the area where the Borg were reported the Ent-D is sent solo to slow them down.

    Borg state the Galaxy is the Federatons most powerful ship. This is before the Borg got netured down by Voyager

    Cardassian war was peatering out but to deter any more aggressive action from the Cardies Ent-D spent time patrolling that boarder.

    A Galaxy is sent to rescue Sisko. Yes she was destroyed as mentioned by another poster, the Dominion where the new bad guys on the block, blowing up a ship that looked like the Ent-D has the shock value of these guys mean business and thats the only reason it was a Galaxy that was used.

    The only time the ship is shown to suck is against the enemy of the week. Against the Klingons/Romulans she is shown other than that crappy movie to be more than equal. The Cardassians she superior.

    Lets not also forget the same with Kirks ship, Archer, Janeway all have epic fails against the villian of the week.

    Now i'm all for a revamped Galaxy class, Do i think she should be the top tier, dogs bollocks of ships. No i don't but the ships launched before and during her tenure, well if we go with cannon she should be top dog out of these. The Prometheus and Soveriegn and beyond should be better
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,714 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    gonalius wrote: »
    Its not unknown space to The Dominion. The real-life equivalent would be to send a tank into North Korea.

    No...we know North Korea...we know they're unfriendly...we didn't know the Dominion was unfriendly much less knew it even existed.

    It would be more like us sending in a submarine after discovering Atlantis and the atlantians attacked and destroyed it for no reason other than existing and being there.
    #WithoutRespectWeReject
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,951 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Wrong. That old dude got his galaxy popped to bits when some jemmy bugs shot it to hell then rammed it straight in the noggin and there's your galaxy goin poof. Watch ds9

    No, you watch it, because you're conflating two different episodes, Nom. As I pointed out earlier, Chu'lak in "Field of Fire" was assigned to the USS Grissom, not the Odyssey.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Granted when I first saw the ship on TNG it looked like it would flip over on its bow. However later I grew to love the ship. And it became one of my favorites.

    As for the game ship. I bought the Galaxy pack when it came out at a reduced price. Since then I used both the Galaxy and Galaxy Dread. The other day I brought out my Galaxy to see how it does on the Delta Patrols. Since I have over half to level up before I hit the next level. So I thought this would be a good chance to try her out. First time she saw action since my Dyson Rep. Even there she held her own and didn't blow up.

    As for saying she is old, out of date, etc. That is your opinion. I will keep on using them. I still use the Excelsior. While the Ambassador is my main ship. Also my KDF would love to have a word with you as he uses a K'tinga as main or the Kamarag.
    Enterprise%20C_zpsrdrf3v8d.jpg

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  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,621 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I.. really don't get all the drama. (aside from "It's my favorite so it deserves to the bestessest at everything!")

    The Galaxy is a tough ship and you can do just fine with it in the game.

    The Guardian is its very capable successor if you really want a 'modern revamp'.


    It's not an escort; don't try to play it as one. Make use of those Eng slots with Eject Warp Plasma, Directed Energy Modulation, and more Powah! than you know what to do with.

    Heck, you can even hybrid drain-boat it with Flowcaps, Tyken's Rift 1, and Plasmonic Leech. It may not knock shields offline all the time, but it WILL soften up targets - offensively and defensively. Alternatively, you can go exotic damage with Particle Generators, (inverted)Tractor Repulsors and Eject Warp Plasma. Science consoles are a very powerful and flexible thing to have - if you're not using them, YOU are the one gimping your ship.

    Think outside the cookie-cutter; there are a lot of ways to explode a ship.
  • comtedeloach2comtedeloach2 Member Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    In the second or third episode a person with a child like mind drunk off a drop of water totally disabled the ship by removing a bunch of lego blocks.....

    the galaxy class was a failure day one. overly complicated, not secure, easy to take over (that was done at least 4 times.) and fairly easy to drop the shields on...
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,951 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    In the second or third episode a person with a child like mind drunk off a drop of water totally disabled the ship by removing a bunch of lego blocks.....

    the galaxy class was a failure day one. overly complicated, not secure, easy to take over (that was done at least 4 times.) and fairly easy to drop the shields on...

    Neelix disabled Voyager with cheese, yet Cryptic still saw fit to make a T6 Intrepid.

    I just figure they used the Ent-D as an example of what not to do, and fixed the bugs in later production runs.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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