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Sto 2.0 a possibility ??

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  • artaniscreedartaniscreed Member Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    STO 2 isnt needed. Arguably at least.

    What is "needed", or at least would be extremely beneficial, is a new engine.

    Sequels are mostly the same engine as the previous game with some minor to moderate tweaking.



    If Cryptic somehow got the money and time to build a new engine and transfer/convert all the assets how long would you wait to complain about the new bugs? (complain, not inform)

    Bear in mind switching the data on the servers could take anywhere from a day to a few weeks at least.

    Would you be able to be patient enough for that?
  • gonaliusgonalius Member Posts: 893 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    jaguarskx wrote: »
    Where did you get that information from?

    As far as I can research the Creation Engine is a totally new game engine. Perhaps it may have borrowed ideas from Morrowind's engine, but it seems to be about it.

    People with far too much time on their hands have decompiled the code and looked. Creation (Skyrim's engine) is largely rewritten, but there are big chunks of Gamebryo (Morrowind's engine) still within it... Lurking...
  • fraghul2000fraghul2000 Member Posts: 1,590 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    szerontzur wrote: »
    Given how Neverwinter turned out; the thought of what an STO 2 would be like actually horrifies me.

    This about sums it up. The only point in an "STO 2" would be, if they gave the license to someone else.

    Let Cryptic do it, it'll just be another cash-cow and look just like the rest of their games (meaning the same as they always have) with a bit more updated graphics and more "micro"-transactions, combined with an even more dumbed down game- and menu-system to make it compatible to X-Box and PS.

    Another thing to consider would be, if they could get any customers for it. Wipe STO1 and all it's purchases, and you'll get a lot of angry, non-returning customers, especially the whales that are carrying the game - give them something to offset their losses, you won't be making any sales in the new game.

    In addition to that, there won't be any more new Trek to promote it. During STO1's developement, Enterprise was gone for just 3 years and the new movies were either showing or in developement. By the time a potential STO2 launches, the movies will be over, the last Star Trek series more than a decade old and - as it seems today - no new Trek series on the horizon...
  • raeatraeat Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Isn't empty hope cute..
  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    And why wouldn't you expect the project to be years in the making? It will happen, it's a matter of economics. As I said, at the point where manhours and expense are greater from struggling with the old engine than the cost of a new one, then it will happen. Management will greenlight it the moment they see a cost savings benefit that impacts their bottom line.

    What I expect to happen will be the cost-benefit analysis will be made, the project greenlighted, and then begun while the current game is still being run. As a part time side project basically, budgeting so many manhours per week on getting the new system ready while maintaining the old and hiring what additional staff is necessary during the transition. When it's close to ready, it will be announced just like any other expansion and work pretty much the same way from the player's end though the patch will be pretty much the size of the entire game and replace the whole existing install.

    For all we know, that process might have already begun. We'll know for sure when they announce it, which will be years after it was started.

    You are assuming that they have people to do everything you mentioned. Which I hardly believe so, for at least two reasons: 1) job openings at their website, and 2) new devs that came onboard during the past few months. In my understanding, they are still looking for more devs, hence I don't believe they have enough manpower for a second project.

    I'm sorry, your post is just too optimistic theorycrafting. It's not how things usually work in practice. I've worked for different companies with such legacy projects and "full refactor" is one of the dreaded expressions in corporate IT business -- every senior manager that I came across would shudder at the mention. There's a lot of work, investment, and RISK involved. It requires extensive deliberation, and even if the prospects are positive, they can't predict the future.
    U.S.S. Eastgate Photo Wall
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  • raeatraeat Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Oh, man. I remember Legacy of Romulus. There were minor issues, and horrific wait queues just to log in, but it was playable, interesting, and fun - even if you didn't aspire to be a DPS machine. I spent endless hours doing the ground missions and loved just about every second of it.

    Delta Rising. I am currently doing Bug Hunt in order to get a costume and I skipped missions to be eligible for that. Otherwise, it interests me not in the least. Uninspired, poorly executed, they try to enforce participation in a player meat grinder, and display a TRIBBLE the players at every opportunity mentality. I don't even recognize Bug Hunt as interesting, it is so poorly and vindictively designed. The game feels like a contest of wills between players and ruthlessly vindictive "designers."

    I like my characters to be heroes, not victims. I get enough of that in the real world. I shouldn't be measuring success by how many incapacitation injuries I get.

    It's going to take more than a new engine to save STO, whatever rendition. It's really only the Star Trek name and the art that keeps me coming back. The play is pure garbage, utterly bereft of fun.

    I think I'll go play Rift now, where I can click on an ability in my tray and it actually works...
  • mewmaster101mewmaster101 Member Posts: 1,239 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    A question for you all.

    With the way the game has been going since D.R. The constant nerfs to the qued content the announcement that the new Bridge Officer system will be released unfinished , the blatant push to get players to buy more Zen due to the amount of grinding that needs to be done ( that's my opinion ) ect........ Plus the fact that Cryptic are working on a top secret project. It all feels that Cryptic are on some sort of time schedule .



    Could it be that that this new top secret project is STO 2.0 ??

    Could it explain some of their decisions recently ?


    What do you all think. Is it even a possibility ??

    No, not even close, There is NO REASON as to why they would do that, not at all. The fact you even THOUGHT there might be a slight possibility must mean you have no idea how MMO's and businesses work
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    You guys worry too much about the engine. Engine's aren't fixed objects that never change. They are constantly adjusted. Some stuff may be out of scope, but you can't just claim that you need a new engine - WHAT does the new engine need to do that the current one can't?

    If you want to command your ship from the bridge - maybe that requires a change too big (Tacofangs certainly alludes to that). But Personally - that's not something I need, and depending on how your new game implements it, it could end up being a dealbreaker for many players actually.

    Better graphics? STO has constantly improved its graphics. It has moved from Direct X 9 to Direct X 11 in its lifetime.

    Better performance? There goes so much into performance that a new engine could start great, but then someone adds actual functionality and it is all gone again.

    Better network performance (less lag)? Even existing ones have problems with that (from the two CryEngine projects I followed - Mechwarrior Online and Star Citizen - it seems that CryEngine isn't a good candidate there at all.)
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • fireseeedfireseeed Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    starkaos wrote: »
    While there will likely be a STO 2.0 at some point in the future since there is no MMO will last forever, it will not happen anytime soon. In order to do STO 2.0 right it will take over 2 years for development and there is no guarantee that it will be better than STO.
    It wouldn't take much to make a better Star trek MMO game than STO.
  • fireseeedfireseeed Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    You guys worry too much about the engine. Engine's aren't fixed objects that never change. They are constantly adjusted. Some stuff may be out of scope, but you can't just claim that you need a new engine - WHAT does the new engine need to do that the current one can't?


    full 360-degree movement. Something they have stated is impossible to implement with the current engine. A fully procedural galaxy like Elite Dangerous something impossible with the current engine.
  • makburemakbure Member Posts: 422 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    If they have a big announcement and/or secret coming up, it's probably a new voiceover from a series cast member who isn't in the game yet.
    -Makbure
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    fireseeed wrote: »
    A fully procedural galaxy like Elite Dangerous something impossible with the current engine.

    It would be impossible for any future Star Trek game made in the near future. The requirements for a fully procedural galaxy for a Star Trek game is vastly different than for a game like Elite Dangerous or No Man's Sky. What is required is procedurally generated adventures. So such a system would in theory be able to create any of the episodes from Star Trek just by using some highly advanced algorithms. Exploring planets and solar systems for resources and enemies might be great for games like Elite Dangerous and No Man's Sky, but it is not enough for a Star Trek game.

    What STO is capable of is a random mixture of procedurally generated content similar to the Genesis system that was removed, Foundry missions, and dev-created missions.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Actually, no, that is a design decision. They could do that, they just don't want to. Or so they said.



    I would love that. Sandbox elements, inluding procedurally generated NPC's.

    Elite Dangerous hasn't done those procedurally generated NPCs yet...

    So it's mostly a lot of star system with no civilizations. We'll see if they can eventually make that happen.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Elite Dangerous hasn't done those procedurally generated NPCs yet...

    So it's mostly a lot of star system with no civilizations. We'll see if they can eventually make that happen.
    Blasphemer! Didn't you know that Elite Dangerous is the Perfect Game, the absolute realization of Everyone's Hopes and Dreams? It will have 400 million different procedurally-generated systems! It will provide undreamt-of experiences with both PvP and PvE! It will make the old young, make the lame dance, cure colic and yaws! It will bring smiles to the faces of all, as we forget all our differences and unite under the common banner of Humanity!!

    Just as soon as they work out a few bugs...
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • fireseeedfireseeed Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Elite Dangerous hasn't done those procedurally generated NPCs yet...

    So it's mostly a lot of star system with no civilizations. We'll see if they can eventually make that happen.

    There one civilisation that will be arriving soon, Thargoids, Frontiere forgot to remove some of their audio files name thargoids in the game before releasing it, an already establish civilisation in the Frontiere universe. Frontiere have already said there will be other civilisations introduce into the game over time.
    starkaos wrote: »
    It would be impossible for any future Star Trek game made in the near future. The requirements for a fully procedural galaxy for a Star Trek game is vastly different than for a game like Elite Dangerous or No Man's Sky.

    What is required is procedurally generated adventures. So such a system would in theory be able to create any of the episodes from Star Trek just by using some highly advanced algorithms. Exploring planets and solar systems for resources and enemies might be great for games like Elite Dangerous and No Man's Sky, but it is not enough for a Star Trek game.

    Actually it is, the vast majority of missions a ship in the Federation would have been was delivering supplies to outposts and ferrying around diplomats. Not every ship can be the Starship enterprise, but getting one of those rare first encounter missions should be a treat for a player.

    Plus generating a proper never ending procedural warfare with the Klingons, the Borg, Cardassians and the never ending destroy every ship we encounter missions we have now in STO wouldn't be too hard to do procedurally. Most of the missions in this game come down to arrive in solar system, destroy ships exit solar system, fly to solar system supply cargo leave solar system, fly to solar beam down collect artifacts beam, fly to solar system negotiate a deal between striking miners and the Federation and leave. Even there hand design levels follow that basic formulas.
    What STO is capable of is a random mixture of procedurally generated content similar to the Genesis system that was removed, Foundry missions, and dev-created missions.
    Genesis was never really part of their core engine, it was a separate tool use to generate missions using the core game engine.

    If the best procedural generation cryptic could do was hunt down five artifacts, destroy 5 ships, then why not do that in a properly big universe like E:D have them procedurally generate like E:D already does. At least then we have full size solar systems to fly around to destroy our 5 ships in. An can role play exploring a full size galaxy whilst doing it.
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Actually, no, that is a design decision. They could do that, they just don't want to. Or so they said.

    I would love that. Sandbox elements, including procedurally generated NPC's.
    I thought seen them state it was beyond their engine capabilities at one time on this forum. If it not I stand corrected.
    =
  • pwecaptainsmirkpwecaptainsmirk Member Posts: 1,167 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Closing this thread as there is no STO 2.0 project that is coming to replace STO and shut everything down.

    This is just another DOOM thread.
This discussion has been closed.