The reason Starfleet didn't take action because it was obey the Vulcan day when Ambassador "Sokketh" said that the Undine were mere observers who didn't understand anything about our cultures, heck he actually debated if they existed. Oh there are plenty of people on a certain Intrepid class starship that can prove they existed. And the reason there were over 30 possible infiltraitors was because even if Starfleet was full of rule-following, peace-loving idiots with Kazon skulls they were one thing: They were smart! The Klingons? Those guys couldn't unify themselves if the Empire was at stake, All the Undine needed to do to destroy the Federation was give the Klingons a little push then the Undine invade, destroy the Alpha Quadrant and the weak will have perished. They had guys infiltrate King Slathis's regime to provoke the Klingons, guys in the Empire to make sure they were provoked, and guys in the Federation to make sure Starfleet intervened. It all played out how the Undine wanted it.
Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
now when ever a fed lover tries to define an alliance, cease fire, joint task force, or even fighting a common enemy in a combined front' i just think are they really this naive. Other than out right alliance can be achieved even by enemies if the proper conditions call for it.
and i know that with DR the new mission treated KDF like no way i can even describe to show how horrible it was doing them once. but i still have not gotten my orders from high command to start taking open handed slaps to face from federation lovers and not kill them on the spot.
and i just can not accept that the high command would not jump at the chance to gain the Vaudwuaar as allies instead of the federation. I mean we are an Empire we don't adapt to others we conquer them.
so ok you want a cease fire fine, I can stop shooting unless provoked but we are supposed to still be Klingons. and i dont wanna hear well im an orion or gorn or what ever, those species are part of the Empire now and as such expected to act as Klingons. unless you want to toss all we know about klingons from canon out the airlock, and in that case it is no longer trek.
with that said if it is no longer trek its just a generic sci fi game and none of the debates or arguments matter anymore.
SO if you really want the generic game keep asking for more unification and erasure of the Klingon culture to have your happy little utopia. or let the differences in the species that make star trek what it is meant to be thrive.
You are an awful big cry baby considering how not screwed up your faction is compared to the Republic.
But what else would one expect from a mewling Klingon dog. Honorless veruul.
Thinking that teaming with allies to enter glorious combat with the enemy erodes Klingon culture is surely a cowards excuse. I'm sure if the battle of Cardassia occurred today you'd hide behind your mother's apron on Qo'noS.
Path to 2409, last 2404 section and first 2405 section. J'mpok unilaterally demands all Federation citizens leave the Hromi Cluster and the President tells him to go jump. J'mpok promptly sends a fleet to get rid of them himself. The fact that it was unsuccessful because Starfleet got there first doesn't stop it from being an ethnic cleansing operation.
why do you think they found it necessary to recast Sela as a moustache-twister and remove eight out of fifteen missions outright from the Romulan arc?
Recast, nothing. Sela was always a mustache-twirler, not to mention a psychopath and utterly incompetent. This is the woman who once tried to invade a planet 16 LY from Earth and a population of billions with freighters carrying 2,000 troops. If anything they've brought her portrayal fully into line with the shows.
The Federation repudiated it's treaty obligations in the face of physical EVIDENCE in the case of the Gorn Hegemony. since the Dominion War, the Klingon Empire has maintained (with, until that repudiation) a role as the front-line guardians of the Alpha Quadrant against hostile attacks.
When presented with evidence of those attacks, the Federation repudiated it's obligations under the Deep Space Nine and Khitomer agreements, effectively siding with the invaders.
What did you think would happen?
Complete pure utter hogwash. All the Path to 2409 says is that the Klingons said there were Undine and the Federation didn't believe them because they were completely and utterly wrong the last time. Absolutely zero indication that any evidence was provided, so refer to Aesop's fable about the Boy Who Cried Wolf.
What did you think would happen?
Also, I recall the incident with Sokketh quite well. I recall a Klingon babbling about Undine, me asking for hard evidence of his claims, and him closing the channel and opening fire. How the hell do you think I'm going to react?! Microcosm of the entire war, that mission. The Klingons play directly into the hands of the Undine and get themselves killed pointlessly in the bargain. Many fine warriors ended up in ghe'tor that day for being counterproductive ****ing dumbasses, while Starfleet made the kill and took zero casualties. In fact Starfleet's done more concrete good to fight the Undine than the Klingons ever did.
And that's before we get to doff assignments of you selling prisoners into slavery with the Orion Syndicate. Don't you dicks dare try to take the moral high ground; you've got no more right to it than Gaul or Hakeev.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Also, I recall the incident with Sokketh quite well. I recall a Klingon babbling about Undine, me asking for hard evidence of his claims, and him closing the channel and opening fire. How the hell do you think I'm going to react?! Microcosm of the entire war, that mission. The Klingons play directly into the hands of the Undine and get themselves killed pointlessly in the bargain. Many fine warriors ended up in ghe'tor that day for being counterproductive ****ing dumbasses, while Starfleet made the kill and took zero casualties.
Yes.
And a dainty, petite romulan girl in a pretty pink dress just took on dozens of Jem'Hadar by herself before defeating their leader in singular combat with a Klingon blade that not only makes absolutely no sense but is also longer than she is tall.
And she didn't even ruin her makeup.
Oh, my. Could this mean player characters are all Mary Sues?
Complete pure utter hogwash. All the Path to 2409 says is that the Klingons said there were Undine and the Federation didn't believe them because they were completely and utterly wrong the last time. Absolutely zero indication that any evidence was provided, so refer to Aesop's fable about the Boy Who Cried Wolf.
You mean the only flag officers in the entire Starfleet who had any experience at all in dealing with the Undine decided the Klingons were right because they were bored and wanted to go wreck some sh*t up?
Though this is Janeway we are talking about, so...
I wouldn't mind the game to allow for cross faction teaming, with one condition.
Every time a KDF and KDF aligned Rom does so the character gains a 'race traitor' token or similar. These are endlessly cumulative. At the start of every day the game picks at random a number of those characters tagged as 'race traitors' and for exactly twenty four hours three things happen: Their title is changed to 'race traitor,' all KDF NPCs become hostile to them, and they can be freely attacked by KDF and KDF aligned players wherever they find them. Social zones? Battlezones? STFs? It's all fair game. If a 'race traitor' dies at the hands of a KDF or KDF aligned player at least once during a day in which he's picked one of his 'race traitor' tokens is removed, but no matter how many times a 'race traitor' is killed by KDF players in a single day only one token will be removed. At the end of every day KDF and KDF aligned characters receive an amount of refined Dil based on both how many 'race traitors' they attacked during the day and how many killing strikes they landed. For the purpose of this calculation attacking the same 'race traitor' twice counts as attacking two different ones as long as the 'race traitor' died at least once in between, and killing the same one several times counts each as a different killing blow.
Every day the game will decorate First City with maimed, mangled corpses based on the appearance of the 'race traitor' characters who lost a token the previous day, and whenever the NPCs wander near one they will shower abuse and humiliation upon them. Players who landed a killing strike on a 'race traitor' will receive a fashion item in the likeness of the character's cut head forever frozen in a most pathetic expression, which they can display hanging from their belts or their sashes through a new tailor option.
My Romulan would have a major problem with this. Her allegiance is with the Republic, not the Empire. She may have chosen to fight alongside the KDF but, do not force your culture upon her less you are a hypocrite. You spout corrosive words against the Federation's alleged attempt at forcing their culture upon you yet, you seek to do exactly that to Republic citizens. The Empire AND Federation are allies of the Republic and I will assist both as needed and I expect both to assist me as needed in accordance with the Khitomer Conference.
Now my Gorn would rather bite their heads off. He is fighting for the Empire due to the Undine manipulation that the Empire exposed. Once this war is concluded, he expects the Empire to release the Hegemony. If not, the Empire WILL see the Gorn as enemies again.
My Orion is in for personal gains. She can't stand the goody two shoes that litter the Federation.
My Ferasan has a personal vendetta against Starfleet in particular and will only fight alongside them when absolutely necessary.
You are an awful big cry baby considering how not screwed up your faction is compared to the Republic.
But what else would one expect from a mewling Klingon dog. Honorless veruul.
Thinking that teaming with allies to enter glorious combat with the enemy erodes Klingon culture is surely a cowards excuse. I'm sure if the battle of Cardassia occurred today you'd hide behind your mother's apron on Qo'noS.
Protip: When you troll, you should try and do it in a less obvious manner so at least Lloyd Christmas and Harry Dunne wouldn't notice it at first glance.
Path to 2409, last 2404 section and first 2405 section. J'mpok unilaterally demands all Federation citizens leave the Hromi Cluster and the President tells him to go jump. J'mpok promptly sends a fleet to get rid of them himself. The fact that it was unsuccessful because Starfleet got there first doesn't stop it from being an ethnic cleansing operation.
War. You at least understand what war means, don't you? Especially between alien species whose only thing in common is both being humanoids.
Complete pure utter hogwash. All the Path to 2409 says is that the Klingons said there were Undine and the Federation didn't believe them because they were completely and utterly wrong the last time. Absolutely zero indication that any evidence was provided, so refer to Aesop's fable about the Boy Who Cried Wolf.
What did you think would happen?
Why was the Federation allied with the 'boy who cried wolf' then?
Also, I recall the incident with Sokketh quite well. I recall a Klingon babbling about Undine, me asking for hard evidence of his claims, and him closing the channel and opening fire. How the hell do you think I'm going to react?! Microcosm of the entire war, that mission. The Klingons play directly into the hands of the Undine and get themselves killed pointlessly in the bargain. Many fine warriors ended up in ghe'tor that day for being counterproductive ****ing dumbasses, while Starfleet made the kill and took zero casualties. In fact Starfleet's done more concrete good to fight the Undine than the Klingons ever did.
Oh, I don't know, maybe try and use 0.0001% of my ship's scanning and processing power to do a brief scan of the "Ambassador" who's afraid of transporter technology in the 25-th century? Similar to how I reacted when I encounetered 2 Romulan D'Deridexes in Bridge Commander. That's what Picard would've done and no life would be lost that day except the imposter.
Oh wait, I forgot - you hate Picard with passion. Carry on this nonesense then. :rolleyes:
And LMAO, more concrete good to fight the Undine!!! Hahahahahahahahahaha
Didn't realize sticking your head in your TRIBBLE means doing concrete good about sth.
And that's before we get to doff assignments of you selling prisoners into slavery with the Orion Syndicate. Don't you dicks dare try to take the moral high ground; you've got no more right to it than Gaul or Hakeev.
No one is talking about moral grounds here. It's just a discussion about who was right and who was wrong about the entire Undine situation. And regardless of just how much you want to stick your head in the sand, even Cryptic through their horribad writing made it perfectly clear on who was right and who was wrong regarding the Undine situation.
As for moral high-grounds, please, no one in this bizaro universe Cryptic created in STO has more right to it than Gaul or Hakeev. Romulan players use banned weapons of mass destruction on daily basis and the Federation has been commiting war attrocities throughout 3 quadrants.
Funny, I would have sworn Tuvok mentioned the error of the Federation in not taking the KDF warnings about the UNDINE seriously in one of the better Featured Episodes of 2014.
Starfleet is thick, Klingons are aholes who would destroy empires to take down a few infiltraitors in high places, Sela's a psycopath, and Gorn are blind as hell. If starfleet handled the Gorn problem then Slathis would have allied with the Federation and he would say thank you half a million times. And about the Mempa sector TRIBBLE: J'm'pok pulled the ancient claim trick on starfleet. The problem with ancient claims: Someone lives there and has built a life for himself and his family, and the mempa sector and the archanies sector were under federation control fo decades and I remember the Klingons vetoed the claims long ago. oh well, Gowron did the same thing and look what that got him, Worf burying his Bat'leth into Gowron's side and that man died a standard Klingon death. But Worf? he's got his old DS9 crush and had a good life:cool:
Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
Well thats rather generic of a game to use loding screens to earn cash
It's a very sad state of the affairs. The loading screens, while they're always annoying since they disrupt gameplay, were at least immersive with some quality artwork that gave the vibe of deep space and Star Trek while enabling people to learn sth. new about the lore and the game storyline at the same time. They disrupted gameplay out of necessity, but were tailored to feel as a part of the greater whole.
Currently, I expect to see Head & Shoulders, Colgate toothpaste, Turkish Airlines or Invest in I]insert random 3-rd world country[/I commercials any day now.
I would prefer reading some stuff instead of looking a promotions for the loading screen for the Nopada desert in Colosium since it is the longest one ever
Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
My Romulan would have a major problem with this. Her allegiance is with the Republic, not the Empire. She may have chosen to fight alongside the KDF but, do not force your culture upon her less you are a hypocrite. You spout corrosive words against the Federation's alleged attempt at forcing their culture upon you yet, you seek to do exactly that to Republic citizens. The Empire AND Federation are allies of the Republic and I will assist both as needed and I expect both to assist me as needed in accordance with the Khitomer Conference.
I believe the problem comes from Cryptic writing and design, as I argued earlier. The story of your Romulan character, if you are not overiding Cryptic's storyline in your headcanon, is pretty much the story of a country bumpkin who became someone around whom most normal people in societies such as the Republic or the Federation would be at the very least uncomfortable.
In just two years you have killed more people and participated on more battles, both in space and in ground, than all of the 'hero captains' put together did in their entire careers. You are at the very least suffering PTSD from your time in Hakeev's ship, and it would be no surprise if you suffering from it or from similar disorders because of some of the other battles and experiences you have gone through.
And then there is the marauding. How long will it take for someone back home to notice what you are pulling in these illegal mining and agricultural colony raids is exactly the same the Tal Shiar pulled on Virinat and many others? And I am sure you are creating much goodwill between the Romulans and the Vulcans when you sell your Vulcan prisoners to orion slavers or send them to labor camps. And did you read the little blurb when you dismissed that white Romulan to make space for that purple Ferasan? You spaced your Romulan bro, you terrible monster you. I want to see you trying to explain that to his family back in New Romulus.
Not to mention all the duels to the death you have been involved it. You may say your ship is a Romulan Republic one and thus such things do not happen, but have you seen your roster lately? Chances are, most of your duty officers are KDF. Things can get bloody if you lose the respect of the very same purples you spent a small fortune in the exchange for. Which takes us to another thing, how do you think your crew behaves in those long weeks at warp between daily and daily? Do you believe the naive idealism of the Republic is manifest in the same ship on which most duty officers and probably quite a bit of the crew are Klingons, Ferasans, Orions, Gorn, Letheans, and Nausicaans?
And Klingon Honor is a complicated thing. Before you proved yourself there were a couple millions of Klingons in the Empire waiting for the smallest excuse to take century old grudges and revenges on the Romulan. Or are you going to tell me the random Klingon warrior in the street is going to be accommodating of the Romulan's faux pas or has any f*cks to give about alliances made at the level of the state? You had to learn the culture, and you had to make it yours. You had to be more observant of the rules than the Klingons themselves, because you had to show you deserved a place among them.
And that's only scratching the surface.
Your ship and your captain are neck deep in the culture of the Empire. And she has become the kind of person who can take on a station full of Jem'Hadar by herself and then defeat their leader in singular combat. When you transported back to your ship to lead it into battle against the Jem'Hadar fleet, dripping alien blood and with small pieces of alien clothing, alien bone, and alien brain stuck in your clothes and your blade, the romulan equivalent of adrenaline shortcircuiting your brain into pure twitchy aggression and a grin both proud and animal, what expression was there in the face of your fellow Republicans? Was it the same to be seen in the face of your KDF crewmembers?
And when the shuttle with that romulan tactical doff (the one who is dating the idealist romulan science doff) that you sent along a Klingon and a Gorn to raid a civilian vessel comes back as she's waiting for them, what expression will she have as the civilian slaves are unloaded and the Klingon veteran is loudly boasting about how the cute little Romulan pup took his first five heads during the attack while the three are laughing and making plans to go get drunk on both bloodwine and romulan ale?
So you better tell your Romulan captain not to get her hopes too high. She's KDF, and you love it. Why else would you be coming every day to have her slaughter hundreds in every skirmish and thousands in every major battle? Why else you would take part in the slaughter for more honor, more glory, more spoils, more Dil, and more favor with your sponsors? And when everything returns to normal don't be surprised if she finds herself going through a pointy eared version of the original Fallout's ending, with D'Tan telling her the KDF has changed her too much and there's no longer a place in New Romulus for her.
That's a gripe I have with how Cryptic dealt with the Romulans: KDF Romulans have nowhere to go back to unless you want to headcanon she being adopted into a Great House, adopted into a Nausicaan clan, or taken in by Klingon Intelligence. After what they have gone through the world D'Tan wants to build is alien to her.
Imagine the war is over and she's going on a date on New Romulus, and she's telling the guy some funny anecdotes from her time in space. '... And, LOL, there was this time the Jem'Hadar attacked Deep Space Nine during a peace conference, you know? And there was this really long table, right? Like, really long. So a Jem'Hadar snucks in and kills some short feddiebear dude, and we are all, like, WTF? But all of a sudden, BAM!, Ambassador S'taass jumps across the whole table to pound on the Jemmy, and then he tears both the Jemmy's arms off and beats him to death with them. Ah, good times. I wonder what he's doing now, the old lizard?'
Eww, More cross factions request... Cross Factions PvP did alot more than enough to kill off KDF players in PvP matches, out of 30 C&H and 4-5 Arena matches i played last week, only saw 2 KDF players besides me, every1 else was either Feddybear or Fedmulan... so i guess Geko did the job he intended to do right.
Geko made a KDF-Fed Truce (NOT Aliiance) so he have an excuse not to work on the KDF even more, want proof look at the amount of T6 ships that the Feds have compare to KDF ones, or check out the Delta Rising KDF dialog... With KDF players having mostly Fed lines talking about Peace, Love & Unity throughout the Galaxy... while the Federation itself is aggressively spreading throughout the galaxy annexing races and interfering in other peoples wars like they are shown in the Delta Quadrant.
I personnally want the Klingon Empire to be still at war with the Federation... because it will force Anti-KDF Dev's even with a very very small chance to work on the KDF faction, rather than the fake peace they made so they can ignore the KDF even more so they can blame the KDF player base why they not gonna make anymore KDF content.
If i have my way both the KDF and Fed would be balance in terms of ships and items, KDF and Feds will still be at war, there will be no Cross Factions PvP, and for the Delta Quadrant expansion the Talaxians + Talaxian Ships would be playable for Feds, the Vadwaar + their Ships would be playable for KDF, and what ever Delta Quadrant race that could fit the Romulan Sub-faction... then again i would not made the Romulans into a Subfaction but rather to a full playable Romulan Star Empire faction with the Pro-Iconian Hakeevs Tal'Shiar and KDF/Fed puppet Romulan Republic as enemies of the RSE. RSE playable race would be Romulan, Remans, Alien + client races such as Hirogen and Suliban in a similar fashion that the KDF have Nausicaans and Letheans.
Given the Alliance, it makes perfect sense for certain content to be cross-faction for post 50 gameplay.
Defera is one of those places where it makes sense.
Other missions with faction-specific elements probably don't make sense to do this.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Given the Alliance, it makes perfect sense for certain content to be cross-faction for post 50 gameplay.
Defera is one of those places where it makes sense.
Other missions with faction-specific elements probably don't make sense to do this.
mod or not your a fed lover of course you are going to say that. its always the same with you, your kdf are alts. and as such all of you who play them as alts just do not really understand why its a bad thing. and i have no idea how to get it to sink in to you feddy lovers.
just wondering is calling a duck a duck naming and shaming?
while the argument against cross faction teaming is based on KDF culture the real threat is any time it is done it removes even more reason for people to ply kdf side and is killing the faction.
somebody further up said if it was allowed then they could play with their fed sister fleet. but as it is now people from that fed sister fleet have to log into their kdf toons to run missions. WOW and thats his argument for cross faction ques while it is my argument against cross faction ques. We need people logging into their KDF toons to play. if they have no reason too. the faction is dead. for some time the game has slowly taking any tech the kdf had and giving it to the other factions removing reasons to play KDF its to the point now most wont even bother. and i guess thats fine. just stop trying to take the only thing the KDF has left from us.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
My Romulan would have a major problem with this. Her allegiance is with the Republic, not the Empire. She may have chosen to fight alongside the KDF but, do not force your culture upon her less you are a hypocrite. You spout corrosive words against the Federation's alleged attempt at forcing their culture upon you yet, you seek to do exactly that to Republic citizens.
so throw out kdf canon and the game has lost its last bit of trek and is just a generic game.
so as i said before if you want the generic game keep up with the cross faction stuff. looks like your getting it anyways. but if you want canon trek we have to stay separate even if the end goal is the same we would not go about it the same way.
and im sorry for what the devs did to your romulans. they sure didnt ask me cause if it was up to me the Empire would have taken the remans and to hell with the romulans let them all go fed . i jsut dont want to see them sitting on benches in 1st city talking. and saying see Klingons are not so bad. which means they talk bad about us even after joining the faction.
id have had a full 3rd faction as the Star empire with options for romulan to unify with the vulcans and remans to seek safety with the kdf as fellow warriors.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
yeah, feds are pretty unanimous in their support for homogenised sto, but it should be pretty clear that its more controversial within the ranks of the kdf. i think there is a definite overarching mentality that you see with those that kdf-main. maybe its due to being the least favoured faction, being the least considered, doing without, etc that the kdf will likely choose to fiercely defend whatever little scrap they think they have to themselves.
in my case, that little scrap is a faction that operates at a high level, pound for pound far more effectively and skillful than their fed counterpart. all things being equal, a kdf pug group will own a fed pug group at pretty much anything pretty much every time, and with fewer tools at their disposal. thats something id really hate to see go away, which is why i am always against faction-neutral content ot mixed queues and the like..
I believe the problem comes from Cryptic writing and design, as I argued earlier. The story of your Romulan character, if you are not overiding Cryptic's storyline in your headcanon, is pretty much the story of a country bumpkin who became someone around whom most normal people in societies such as the Republic or the Federation would be at the very least uncomfortable.
In just two years you have killed more people and participated on more battles, both in space and in ground, than all of the 'hero captains' put together did in their entire careers. You are at the very least suffering PTSD from your time in Hakeev's ship, and it would be no surprise if you suffering from it or from similar disorders because of some of the other battles and experiences you have gone through...
No, it was removal of a hostile occupation force from strategic territory. The Federation vacated it's rights to those colonies when they decided to side with the revealed and publicly exposed enemies of the Alpha Quadrant.
Oh, so civilian colonies are a "hostile occupation force" now? :rolleyes: They were invoking feudal territorial claims they had ceded decades ago and there were (guessing) millions of people who had built lives there. They had nothing to do with the Undine and posed no threat to Imperial national security. Google search terms for you: "define ethnic cleansing". The Klingons had zero justification; they just wanted lebensraum for the Empire.
Oh, and speaking of the Germans, here's a real-life example of J'mpok's logic. True story: one of my classmates in high school was distantly related to Claus von Stauffenberg, did his senior thesis on the guy. Von Stauffenberg was a count, so clearly my classmate has a claim to a holding in Germany, right? (Ignoring the possibility that there are closer relatives because I don't have that information.)
Except that the Klingons publicly exposed them, thus gaining the loyalty of the Gorn people. (you don't give important jobs to people who have good reason to stab you in the back. you kill them.)
That happened well after the fact. Ever heard of being "right for the wrong reasons"?
I suppose it IS too much to expect the United Federation of Planets to honor their treaty obligations.
By the time the Klingons had any hard evidence that they were willing to actually show anybody, they'd already voluntarily withdrawn from the treaty in question. Ergo, the Federation no longer had any treaty obligations to them.
In contrast this is the same Federation president who initially tried to uphold the Treaty of Algeron despite the fact the Star Empire was still in disarray at the time and couldn't do anything about it even if they did break it. They really had nothing to gain by it but they upheld it anyway.
The only reason they eventually gave up on the Treaty of Algeron was because Sela stopped holding up her end of the bargain: there's Imperial ships dicking around on the Federation side of the border in-game, and that's accessible well before the old "Romulan Mystery" arc unlocks. Not the revamp, underline, the old story arc. They also suddenly had a new treaty obligation with the Romulan Republic to uphold, the two obligations were de facto mutually exclusive, and the Republic made better allies. I'll wager the Klingons would've made the exact same decision in the Federation's place.
Bull****, Starfleet ignored them, then tried to contact them to make common cause against the Empire (Fluid dynamics mission), note that Sokketh occurred AFTER the Empire demonstrated (in public) that they were 100% right about the infiltration of the Gorn.
Common cause against the Empire my TRIBBLE. They were doing exactly what they're supposed to do: trying one last time to end the war with the Undine altogether. The fact that the mission went pear-shaped doesn't mean it was a bad idea or that they were trying to get the Undine to target the Klingons; in fact if you replay the mission you'll notice that there were as many Klingon ships present as there were Starfleet ships (the PC notwithstanding since it's a cross-faction mission), making it a joint operation.
If anything they were after common cause against the Borg and the Iconians, which was what should've been happening from the very beginning.
The Empire never pretended to be otherwise-Slavery is particular to the Orion culture, it's the foundation OF that culture, who are we to interfere IN that culture? Said prisoners are likely to live longer in Orion hands, than on Rura Penthe, and will probably be treated better than they will as prisoners on that frozen rock. It's not like we're sending them to go terraform somewhere (terraforming crews have a prodigious death-rate)...
as a practical matter, letting the Orions have them removes a cost to the state, and unlike Rura Penthe, those prisoners have a good chance of living long enough to escape, or be ransomed from their new owners if you really cared about them. In practical terms, the prisoners will live long enough for you to...'rescue' them. The alternative, is spacing. Pick one.
Just because it's "their culture" doesn't make it right. I recall from The Order of the Stick people calling Haley the villain for freeing slaves in the Kingdom of Blood, rather than Tarquin for burning said slaves at the stake, because "slavery is acceptable in their culture". Thing is, Tarquin and the Klingons are both in a perfect position to change that culture, and they don't even have the moral cowardice of a Prime Directive getting in their way.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Just because it's "their culture" doesn't make it right. I recall from The Order of the Stick people calling Haley the villain for freeing slaves in the Kingdom of Blood, rather than Tarquin for burning said slaves at the stake, because "slavery is acceptable in their culture".
be careful. i got a temp ban from this board for merely pointing out that distasteful cultural beliefs existed. i didnt even have to name any of them. the moderation team here is so far to the left that even the most centrist opinion is considered 'intolerance'.
honour killings, genital mutilation, or child-brides, youd best support them all.
Just because it's "their culture" doesn't make it right. I recall from The Order of the Stick people calling Haley the villain for freeing slaves in the Kingdom of Blood, rather than Tarquin for burning said slaves at the stake, because "slavery is acceptable in their culture". Thing is, Tarquin and the Klingons are both in a perfect position to change that culture, and they don't even have the moral cowardice of a Prime Directive getting in their way.
i dont think the kobali are war criminal unless they are signatures to a treaty stating the rules of war . jsut as we didnt hold war crime trials on many Japanese after ww2 sense they never signed the Geneva convention technically they were not war criminals and why only 5725 were ever even brought to any sort of trial with only a little under 1000 death sentences carried out. but of those they were convictions of events that unusably happened before japan had declared war on nation such as the sneak attack on pearl harbor. or other things such as slave labor , forced prostitution for comfort women and human experiments and chemical attacks .
as for the Klingons changing it may be a good time too change in your view. but in the the klingon view why change? if they like it the way it is why should they change? or is it just your federation morality getting in the way?
and as for your statment about ethnic cleansing i doubt it. the federation is not an ethnic group neither you or i know what race religion or beliefs those people had. so ethnic cleansing is incorrect. it could have been humand vulcans andorians and any other numebr of species on those planets. but what they were was valid targets for hampering the enemy war effort or an attempt for reduce the enemies will to fight. if it worked or not does not matter in the slightest.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
i dont think the kobali are war criminal unless they are signatures to a treaty stating the rules of war . jsut as we didnt hold war crime trials on many Japanese after ww2 sense they never signed the Geneva convention technically they were not war criminals and why only 5725 were ever even brought to any sort of trial with only a little under 1000 death sentences carried out. but of those they were convictions of events that unusably happened before japan had declared war on nation such as the sneak attack on pearl harbor. or other things such as slave labor , forced prostitution for comfort women and human experiments and chemical attacks .
Hmm, slave labor and experiments on prisoners. Seen both of those in KDF doff assignments.
as for the Klingons changing it may be a good time too change in your view. but in the the klingon view why change? if they like it the way it is why should they change? or is it just your federation morality getting in the way?
Cultural relativist hogwash, the lot of it. I believe there is such a thing as objective good and evil and that the Klingons displayed close to none of the former and plenty of the latter.
But if you disagree, here's a perfect practical reason to change it. You ever done the tour of First City sidequest? There's a bit where you visit the slums on the fringe of the city where the non-Klingons are forced to live. Slums = crime, which is a drain on Imperial resources. How's that for a reason to change your way of doing things?
Take your head out of your TRIBBLE. It's no wonder the devs don't want to support the KDF faction if they act like you do.
and as for your statment about ethnic cleansing i doubt it. the federation is not an ethnic group neither you or i know what race religion or beliefs those people had. so ethnic cleansing is incorrect. it could have been humand vulcans andorians and any other numebr of species on those planets. but what they were was valid targets for hampering the enemy war effort or an attempt for reduce the enemies will to fight. if it worked or not does not matter in the slightest.
How does "non-Klingon" sound for a racial category? Worked for the TRIBBLE and the Japanese, and it apparently works for your beloved J'mpok.
And here's another flaw in your reasoning: the Federation didn't have a war effort until the Klingons started attacking their civilians. So if anything, going after them increased the enemy's will to fight. And there's little evidence that the colonies contributed meaningfully resource-wise to the Federation's ability to make war, either.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Hmm, slave labor and experiments on prisoners. Seen both of those in KDF doff assignments.
War criminals, the lot of you.
Cultural relativist hogwash, the lot of it. I believe there is such a thing as objective good and evil and that the Klingons displayed close to none of the former and plenty of the latter.
But if you disagree, here's a perfect practical reason to change it. You ever done the tour of First City sidequest? There's a bit where you visit the slums on the fringe of the city where the non-Klingons are forced to live. Slums = crime, which is a drain on Imperial resources. How's that for a reason to change your way of doing things?
Take your head out of your TRIBBLE. It's no wonder the devs don't want to support the KDF faction if they act like you do.
How does "non-Klingon" sound for a racial category? Worked for the TRIBBLE and the Japanese, and it apparently works for your beloved J'mpok.
And here's another flaw in your reasoning: the Federation didn't have a war effort until the Klingons started attacking their civilians. So if anything, going after them increased the enemy's will to fight. And there's little evidence that the colonies contributed meaningfully resource-wise to the Federation's ability to make war, either.
LOL your funny and still trying to relate real world human on human values to a make belive alien species and culture and that is where you are going wrong. none of the things you point out apply as far as the Klignons are concerned sure it may bug you but it dont bother them. now to me it sounds like your fine with continuing the war to push your beliefs on the kdf and make them bend to your will. all i can say to that is FINALLY WE AGREE on something. let the war rage on.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
LOL your funny and still trying to relate real world human on human values to a make belive alien species and culture and that is where you are going wrong. none of the things you point out apply as far as the Klignons are concerned sure it may bug you but it dont bother them. now to me it sounds like your fine with continuing the war to push your beliefs on the kdf and make them bend to your will. all i can say to that is FINALLY WE AGREE on something. let the war rage on.
Translation: WAAAH! YOU KEEP CALLING ME ON BEING AN EVIL TRIBBLE! I QUIT!
You sound an awful lot like Gaul. Here's another trope for you: Never My Fault
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
You are an awful big cry baby considering how not screwed up your faction is compared to the Republic.
But what else would one expect from a mewling Klingon dog. Honorless veruul.
Thinking that teaming with allies to enter glorious combat with the enemy erodes Klingon culture is surely a cowards excuse. I'm sure if the battle of Cardassia occurred today you'd hide behind your mother's apron on Qo'noS.
Recast, nothing. Sela was always a mustache-twirler, not to mention a psychopath and utterly incompetent. This is the woman who once tried to invade a planet 16 LY from Earth and a population of billions with freighters carrying 2,000 troops. If anything they've brought her portrayal fully into line with the shows.
Complete pure utter hogwash. All the Path to 2409 says is that the Klingons said there were Undine and the Federation didn't believe them because they were completely and utterly wrong the last time. Absolutely zero indication that any evidence was provided, so refer to Aesop's fable about the Boy Who Cried Wolf.
What did you think would happen?
Also, I recall the incident with Sokketh quite well. I recall a Klingon babbling about Undine, me asking for hard evidence of his claims, and him closing the channel and opening fire. How the hell do you think I'm going to react?! Microcosm of the entire war, that mission. The Klingons play directly into the hands of the Undine and get themselves killed pointlessly in the bargain. Many fine warriors ended up in ghe'tor that day for being counterproductive ****ing dumbasses, while Starfleet made the kill and took zero casualties. In fact Starfleet's done more concrete good to fight the Undine than the Klingons ever did.
And that's before we get to doff assignments of you selling prisoners into slavery with the Orion Syndicate. Don't you dicks dare try to take the moral high ground; you've got no more right to it than Gaul or Hakeev.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Yes.
And a dainty, petite romulan girl in a pretty pink dress just took on dozens of Jem'Hadar by herself before defeating their leader in singular combat with a Klingon blade that not only makes absolutely no sense but is also longer than she is tall.
And she didn't even ruin her makeup.
Oh, my. Could this mean player characters are all Mary Sues?
:eek:
Stop the presses!
You mean the only flag officers in the entire Starfleet who had any experience at all in dealing with the Undine decided the Klingons were right because they were bored and wanted to go wreck some sh*t up?
Though this is Janeway we are talking about, so...
Nevermind.
Edit:
Tell that to the Gorn.
And I am sure slaughtering everyone aboard that Romulan medical facility really taught the Undine not to mess with Starfleet.
My Romulan would have a major problem with this. Her allegiance is with the Republic, not the Empire. She may have chosen to fight alongside the KDF but, do not force your culture upon her less you are a hypocrite. You spout corrosive words against the Federation's alleged attempt at forcing their culture upon you yet, you seek to do exactly that to Republic citizens. The Empire AND Federation are allies of the Republic and I will assist both as needed and I expect both to assist me as needed in accordance with the Khitomer Conference.
Now my Gorn would rather bite their heads off. He is fighting for the Empire due to the Undine manipulation that the Empire exposed. Once this war is concluded, he expects the Empire to release the Hegemony. If not, the Empire WILL see the Gorn as enemies again.
My Orion is in for personal gains. She can't stand the goody two shoes that litter the Federation.
My Ferasan has a personal vendetta against Starfleet in particular and will only fight alongside them when absolutely necessary.
Protip: When you troll, you should try and do it in a less obvious manner so at least Lloyd Christmas and Harry Dunne wouldn't notice it at first glance.
/trollfail
War. You at least understand what war means, don't you? Especially between alien species whose only thing in common is both being humanoids.
Why was the Federation allied with the 'boy who cried wolf' then?
Oh, I don't know, maybe try and use 0.0001% of my ship's scanning and processing power to do a brief scan of the "Ambassador" who's afraid of transporter technology in the 25-th century? Similar to how I reacted when I encounetered 2 Romulan D'Deridexes in Bridge Commander. That's what Picard would've done and no life would be lost that day except the imposter.
Oh wait, I forgot - you hate Picard with passion. Carry on this nonesense then. :rolleyes:
And LMAO, more concrete good to fight the Undine!!! Hahahahahahahahahaha
Didn't realize sticking your head in your TRIBBLE means doing concrete good about sth.
No one is talking about moral grounds here. It's just a discussion about who was right and who was wrong about the entire Undine situation. And regardless of just how much you want to stick your head in the sand, even Cryptic through their horribad writing made it perfectly clear on who was right and who was wrong regarding the Undine situation.
As for moral high-grounds, please, no one in this bizaro universe Cryptic created in STO has more right to it than Gaul or Hakeev. Romulan players use banned weapons of mass destruction on daily basis and the Federation has been commiting war attrocities throughout 3 quadrants.
R.I.P
I have no idea cross-teaming if the missions story allows it. I am surprised that many of the missions at endgame are not already cross-faction.
R.I.P
There is even a loading screen ingame that states, " Section 31 believes the Undine have infiltrated Starfleet to the highest levels".
Some fans love to rewrite history like some political parties and radical religions in the real world.
R.I.P
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
Yes, that was before the loading screens devolved into the latest marketing propaganda.
Well thats rather generic of a game to use loding screens to earn cash
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
It's a very sad state of the affairs. The loading screens, while they're always annoying since they disrupt gameplay, were at least immersive with some quality artwork that gave the vibe of deep space and Star Trek while enabling people to learn sth. new about the lore and the game storyline at the same time. They disrupted gameplay out of necessity, but were tailored to feel as a part of the greater whole.
Currently, I expect to see Head & Shoulders, Colgate toothpaste, Turkish Airlines or Invest in I]insert random 3-rd world country[/I commercials any day now.
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
I believe the problem comes from Cryptic writing and design, as I argued earlier. The story of your Romulan character, if you are not overiding Cryptic's storyline in your headcanon, is pretty much the story of a country bumpkin who became someone around whom most normal people in societies such as the Republic or the Federation would be at the very least uncomfortable.
In just two years you have killed more people and participated on more battles, both in space and in ground, than all of the 'hero captains' put together did in their entire careers. You are at the very least suffering PTSD from your time in Hakeev's ship, and it would be no surprise if you suffering from it or from similar disorders because of some of the other battles and experiences you have gone through.
And then there is the marauding. How long will it take for someone back home to notice what you are pulling in these illegal mining and agricultural colony raids is exactly the same the Tal Shiar pulled on Virinat and many others? And I am sure you are creating much goodwill between the Romulans and the Vulcans when you sell your Vulcan prisoners to orion slavers or send them to labor camps. And did you read the little blurb when you dismissed that white Romulan to make space for that purple Ferasan? You spaced your Romulan bro, you terrible monster you. I want to see you trying to explain that to his family back in New Romulus.
Not to mention all the duels to the death you have been involved it. You may say your ship is a Romulan Republic one and thus such things do not happen, but have you seen your roster lately? Chances are, most of your duty officers are KDF. Things can get bloody if you lose the respect of the very same purples you spent a small fortune in the exchange for. Which takes us to another thing, how do you think your crew behaves in those long weeks at warp between daily and daily? Do you believe the naive idealism of the Republic is manifest in the same ship on which most duty officers and probably quite a bit of the crew are Klingons, Ferasans, Orions, Gorn, Letheans, and Nausicaans?
And Klingon Honor is a complicated thing. Before you proved yourself there were a couple millions of Klingons in the Empire waiting for the smallest excuse to take century old grudges and revenges on the Romulan. Or are you going to tell me the random Klingon warrior in the street is going to be accommodating of the Romulan's faux pas or has any f*cks to give about alliances made at the level of the state? You had to learn the culture, and you had to make it yours. You had to be more observant of the rules than the Klingons themselves, because you had to show you deserved a place among them.
And that's only scratching the surface.
Your ship and your captain are neck deep in the culture of the Empire. And she has become the kind of person who can take on a station full of Jem'Hadar by herself and then defeat their leader in singular combat. When you transported back to your ship to lead it into battle against the Jem'Hadar fleet, dripping alien blood and with small pieces of alien clothing, alien bone, and alien brain stuck in your clothes and your blade, the romulan equivalent of adrenaline shortcircuiting your brain into pure twitchy aggression and a grin both proud and animal, what expression was there in the face of your fellow Republicans? Was it the same to be seen in the face of your KDF crewmembers?
And when the shuttle with that romulan tactical doff (the one who is dating the idealist romulan science doff) that you sent along a Klingon and a Gorn to raid a civilian vessel comes back as she's waiting for them, what expression will she have as the civilian slaves are unloaded and the Klingon veteran is loudly boasting about how the cute little Romulan pup took his first five heads during the attack while the three are laughing and making plans to go get drunk on both bloodwine and romulan ale?
So you better tell your Romulan captain not to get her hopes too high. She's KDF, and you love it. Why else would you be coming every day to have her slaughter hundreds in every skirmish and thousands in every major battle? Why else you would take part in the slaughter for more honor, more glory, more spoils, more Dil, and more favor with your sponsors? And when everything returns to normal don't be surprised if she finds herself going through a pointy eared version of the original Fallout's ending, with D'Tan telling her the KDF has changed her too much and there's no longer a place in New Romulus for her.
That's a gripe I have with how Cryptic dealt with the Romulans: KDF Romulans have nowhere to go back to unless you want to headcanon she being adopted into a Great House, adopted into a Nausicaan clan, or taken in by Klingon Intelligence. After what they have gone through the world D'Tan wants to build is alien to her.
Imagine the war is over and she's going on a date on New Romulus, and she's telling the guy some funny anecdotes from her time in space. '... And, LOL, there was this time the Jem'Hadar attacked Deep Space Nine during a peace conference, you know? And there was this really long table, right? Like, really long. So a Jem'Hadar snucks in and kills some short feddiebear dude, and we are all, like, WTF? But all of a sudden, BAM!, Ambassador S'taass jumps across the whole table to pound on the Jemmy, and then he tears both the Jemmy's arms off and beats him to death with them. Ah, good times. I wonder what he's doing now, the old lizard?'
The life of the party.
Could you do a version for the Federation allied Romulan?
Geko made a KDF-Fed Truce (NOT Aliiance) so he have an excuse not to work on the KDF even more, want proof look at the amount of T6 ships that the Feds have compare to KDF ones, or check out the Delta Rising KDF dialog... With KDF players having mostly Fed lines talking about Peace, Love & Unity throughout the Galaxy... while the Federation itself is aggressively spreading throughout the galaxy annexing races and interfering in other peoples wars like they are shown in the Delta Quadrant.
I personnally want the Klingon Empire to be still at war with the Federation... because it will force Anti-KDF Dev's even with a very very small chance to work on the KDF faction, rather than the fake peace they made so they can ignore the KDF even more so they can blame the KDF player base why they not gonna make anymore KDF content.
If i have my way both the KDF and Fed would be balance in terms of ships and items, KDF and Feds will still be at war, there will be no Cross Factions PvP, and for the Delta Quadrant expansion the Talaxians + Talaxian Ships would be playable for Feds, the Vadwaar + their Ships would be playable for KDF, and what ever Delta Quadrant race that could fit the Romulan Sub-faction... then again i would not made the Romulans into a Subfaction but rather to a full playable Romulan Star Empire faction with the Pro-Iconian Hakeevs Tal'Shiar and KDF/Fed puppet Romulan Republic as enemies of the RSE. RSE playable race would be Romulan, Remans, Alien + client races such as Hirogen and Suliban in a similar fashion that the KDF have Nausicaans and Letheans.
Defera is one of those places where it makes sense.
Other missions with faction-specific elements probably don't make sense to do this.
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mod or not your a fed lover of course you are going to say that. its always the same with you, your kdf are alts. and as such all of you who play them as alts just do not really understand why its a bad thing. and i have no idea how to get it to sink in to you feddy lovers.
just wondering is calling a duck a duck naming and shaming?
while the argument against cross faction teaming is based on KDF culture the real threat is any time it is done it removes even more reason for people to ply kdf side and is killing the faction.
somebody further up said if it was allowed then they could play with their fed sister fleet. but as it is now people from that fed sister fleet have to log into their kdf toons to run missions. WOW and thats his argument for cross faction ques while it is my argument against cross faction ques. We need people logging into their KDF toons to play. if they have no reason too. the faction is dead. for some time the game has slowly taking any tech the kdf had and giving it to the other factions removing reasons to play KDF its to the point now most wont even bother. and i guess thats fine. just stop trying to take the only thing the KDF has left from us.
uhhm yeah thats exactly what we want and its not being a hypocrite we are conquerors not adapters its our way and exactly one of the points i was trying to make. you cant use the same ideas on the kdf that you use with the feds. its not in Klingon nature and its canon to be that way.
so throw out kdf canon and the game has lost its last bit of trek and is just a generic game.
so as i said before if you want the generic game keep up with the cross faction stuff. looks like your getting it anyways. but if you want canon trek we have to stay separate even if the end goal is the same we would not go about it the same way.
and im sorry for what the devs did to your romulans. they sure didnt ask me cause if it was up to me the Empire would have taken the remans and to hell with the romulans let them all go fed . i jsut dont want to see them sitting on benches in 1st city talking. and saying see Klingons are not so bad. which means they talk bad about us even after joining the faction.
id have had a full 3rd faction as the Star empire with options for romulan to unify with the vulcans and remans to seek safety with the kdf as fellow warriors.
in my case, that little scrap is a faction that operates at a high level, pound for pound far more effectively and skillful than their fed counterpart. all things being equal, a kdf pug group will own a fed pug group at pretty much anything pretty much every time, and with fewer tools at their disposal. thats something id really hate to see go away, which is why i am always against faction-neutral content ot mixed queues and the like..
and you should do this more often.
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Oh, and speaking of the Germans, here's a real-life example of J'mpok's logic. True story: one of my classmates in high school was distantly related to Claus von Stauffenberg, did his senior thesis on the guy. Von Stauffenberg was a count, so clearly my classmate has a claim to a holding in Germany, right? (Ignoring the possibility that there are closer relatives because I don't have that information.)
Hahaha. No.
That happened well after the fact. Ever heard of being "right for the wrong reasons"?
By the time the Klingons had any hard evidence that they were willing to actually show anybody, they'd already voluntarily withdrawn from the treaty in question. Ergo, the Federation no longer had any treaty obligations to them.
In contrast this is the same Federation president who initially tried to uphold the Treaty of Algeron despite the fact the Star Empire was still in disarray at the time and couldn't do anything about it even if they did break it. They really had nothing to gain by it but they upheld it anyway.
The only reason they eventually gave up on the Treaty of Algeron was because Sela stopped holding up her end of the bargain: there's Imperial ships dicking around on the Federation side of the border in-game, and that's accessible well before the old "Romulan Mystery" arc unlocks. Not the revamp, underline, the old story arc. They also suddenly had a new treaty obligation with the Romulan Republic to uphold, the two obligations were de facto mutually exclusive, and the Republic made better allies. I'll wager the Klingons would've made the exact same decision in the Federation's place.
Common cause against the Empire my TRIBBLE. They were doing exactly what they're supposed to do: trying one last time to end the war with the Undine altogether. The fact that the mission went pear-shaped doesn't mean it was a bad idea or that they were trying to get the Undine to target the Klingons; in fact if you replay the mission you'll notice that there were as many Klingon ships present as there were Starfleet ships (the PC notwithstanding since it's a cross-faction mission), making it a joint operation.
If anything they were after common cause against the Borg and the Iconians, which was what should've been happening from the very beginning.
I'll give you the same answer I gave the guys who were trying to claim the Kobali aren't war criminals: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CultureJustifiesAnything
Just because it's "their culture" doesn't make it right. I recall from The Order of the Stick people calling Haley the villain for freeing slaves in the Kingdom of Blood, rather than Tarquin for burning said slaves at the stake, because "slavery is acceptable in their culture". Thing is, Tarquin and the Klingons are both in a perfect position to change that culture, and they don't even have the moral cowardice of a Prime Directive getting in their way.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
be careful. i got a temp ban from this board for merely pointing out that distasteful cultural beliefs existed. i didnt even have to name any of them. the moderation team here is so far to the left that even the most centrist opinion is considered 'intolerance'.
honour killings, genital mutilation, or child-brides, youd best support them all.
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i dont think the kobali are war criminal unless they are signatures to a treaty stating the rules of war . jsut as we didnt hold war crime trials on many Japanese after ww2 sense they never signed the Geneva convention technically they were not war criminals and why only 5725 were ever even brought to any sort of trial with only a little under 1000 death sentences carried out. but of those they were convictions of events that unusably happened before japan had declared war on nation such as the sneak attack on pearl harbor. or other things such as slave labor , forced prostitution for comfort women and human experiments and chemical attacks .
as for the Klingons changing it may be a good time too change in your view. but in the the klingon view why change? if they like it the way it is why should they change? or is it just your federation morality getting in the way?
and as for your statment about ethnic cleansing i doubt it. the federation is not an ethnic group neither you or i know what race religion or beliefs those people had. so ethnic cleansing is incorrect. it could have been humand vulcans andorians and any other numebr of species on those planets. but what they were was valid targets for hampering the enemy war effort or an attempt for reduce the enemies will to fight. if it worked or not does not matter in the slightest.
War criminals, the lot of you.
Cultural relativist hogwash, the lot of it. I believe there is such a thing as objective good and evil and that the Klingons displayed close to none of the former and plenty of the latter.
But if you disagree, here's a perfect practical reason to change it. You ever done the tour of First City sidequest? There's a bit where you visit the slums on the fringe of the city where the non-Klingons are forced to live. Slums = crime, which is a drain on Imperial resources. How's that for a reason to change your way of doing things?
Take your head out of your TRIBBLE. It's no wonder the devs don't want to support the KDF faction if they act like you do.
How does "non-Klingon" sound for a racial category? Worked for the TRIBBLE and the Japanese, and it apparently works for your beloved J'mpok.
And here's another flaw in your reasoning: the Federation didn't have a war effort until the Klingons started attacking their civilians. So if anything, going after them increased the enemy's will to fight. And there's little evidence that the colonies contributed meaningfully resource-wise to the Federation's ability to make war, either.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
LOL your funny and still trying to relate real world human on human values to a make belive alien species and culture and that is where you are going wrong. none of the things you point out apply as far as the Klignons are concerned sure it may bug you but it dont bother them. now to me it sounds like your fine with continuing the war to push your beliefs on the kdf and make them bend to your will. all i can say to that is FINALLY WE AGREE on something. let the war rage on.
Translation: WAAAH! YOU KEEP CALLING ME ON BEING AN EVIL TRIBBLE! I QUIT!
You sound an awful lot like Gaul. Here's another trope for you: Never My Fault
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/