I think he means the dil he'd get from converting the marks it rewards.
Ah, well that's kind of confusing considering we're discussing mark rewards and how that will affect people needing the marks more than the Dil exchange from them haha. Dil income is so irrelevant anyway considering the hard cap of 8K a day refining, 9K if you are a vet and have an upgraded fleet mine.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Thank you to everyone who took the time to leave your feedback with detailed explanations on the Queues, your Fleet/Friend activity, and how these changes will effect your game play.
I can assure you the team is not implementing these changes to "kill the game" or your desire to play the PvE content.
We are working on the PvE Queues and will be updating you with more info as we can. In the interim we ask for your patience and understanding.
While the team continues to work, we will post more updates as they become available. In the meantime, please remember that the last thing we want to create is an argument between our players. Let's not make this thread an "us vs them" mentality.
Please let your fellow users post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at this in the same way you do.
Thanks everyone!
~CaptainSmirk
Without a full explanation from the developers, the recent string of nerfs feels very controversial. "Delta Rising" has introduced one set of nerfs after another. Many players, such as myself, are confused and worried about all of the recent changes. Players, not all, are suffering from buyer's remorse, anxiety, and fear. When a mess of changes occur in a drastic fashion, regardless about subject-matter, people will usually react in a negative manner.
Some Questions for Cryptic Only:
(1) What is the overall purpose of nerfing a mess of content? Is there a plan in place?
(2) What is the overall purpose of removing certain content? Are players just ignoring certain game maps?
(3) Are you going to remove or reduce the presence of Borg stfs?
(4) Are you transforming STO into a mobile device game?
(5) Are you going to reintroduce the Borg STFs in Season Ten?
I don't want to overreact. I am just very concerned about where these changes will lead.
Thank you to everyone who took the time to leave your feedback with detailed explanations on the Queues, your Fleet/Friend activity, and how these changes will effect your game play.
I can assure you the team is not implementing these changes to "kill the game" or your desire to play the PvE content.
We are working on the PvE Queues and will be updating you with more info as we can. In the interim we ask for your patience and understanding.
While the team continues to work, we will post more updates as they become available. In the meantime, please remember that the last thing we want to create is an argument between our players. Let's not make this thread an "us vs them" mentality.
Please let your fellow users post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at this in the same way you do.
Thanks everyone!
~CaptainSmirk
Then what is the reason for increasing difficulty but lowering rewards? That is backwards logic. I know you are supposed to be the PR guy, but how about actually getting some information or having a dev come specifically explain the reasoning behind these changes. Not a response just saying that everything is all right.
I can assure you the team is not implementing these changes to "kill the game" or your desire to play the PvE content.
~CaptainSmirk
IDK but reducing the rewards on older queue content and upping rewards for specific DR introduced queue content makes it appear that the Devs intentions IS to get players to use the DR content more (much like what happened with the increase in EXP rewards ONLY for the new DR introduced patrols.)
For me the ACTIONS speak louder than words - and the current slew of actions by the Cryptic STO Dev team seem to 'speak' fairly clearly and obviously as to the Dev team's intent. If that's not the case perhaps the STO Dev teams actions should be more in line with your words.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Thank you to everyone who took the time to leave your feedback with detailed explanations on the Queues, your Fleet/Friend activity, and how these changes will effect your game play.
I can assure you the team is not implementing these changes to "kill the game" or your desire to play the PvE content.
We are working on the PvE Queues and will be updating you with more info as we can. In the interim we ask for your patience and understanding.
While the team continues to work, we will post more updates as they become available. In the meantime, please remember that the last thing we want to create is an argument between our players. Let's not make this thread an "us vs them" mentality.
Please let your fellow users post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at this in the same way you do.
Thanks everyone!
~CaptainSmirk
Yeah guys. Let all three people post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at it the same way as pretty much the entire playerbase. Smirks needs us to all shut up so these three people can have the floor.
Smirks, I am smirking because the time for patience and understanding went out the door when your team blatantly slapped the community in the face with this latest round of nerfs. Your payouts are too damn LOW! They are about as bad as getting ONE FLEET MARK per ONE dilithium and that is pretty terrible. You have been told, repeatedly, thoroughly, amply, and profusely what this community does and does not want, yet you persist with your arrogance thinking your team knows better than the consumers.
Get over yourselves, this game's content post LoR has sucked the dog.
The saddest part is how gorram trite you people are being about it. Yes. Trite. That is your team. In fact, the current content is so bad, you're going back and surgically removing and altering good content to hide how terrible the current content is. In what realm does turding up good content to bring it in TRIBBLE parameters of the current content an acceptable gameplan to decrease the sucking curve?
Anyway, like I was sayin', shrimp is the fruit of the sea. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey's uh, shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich. That- that's about it. - Bubba
We are working on the PvE Queues and will be updating you with more info as we can. In the interim we ask for your patience and understanding.
Thanks everyone!
~CaptainSmirk
Patience, some of us can do. But understanding is another matter. You see, we cannot understand why Cryptic did this until someone tells us. Until then, we can only assume as to why. And that will not garner you, or Cryptic, any good will, because - as evidenced by this thread - people do not trust Cryptic's intentions. On the whole they are assumed to be profit-motivated at best. At worst, players feel like they are being forced to play what Cryptic wants them to play. And, news flash, people want to play a game how they want to play it. Shepherding players generates negative feelings and irritation. The fact of the matter is, and I cannot understate this point, Cryptic did not need to do this. The queues affected by this nerf are difficult as it is, and rarely played because they already reward too little for the effort. This is exactly the opposite of what needed to be done with these missions, and we cannot understand why this is being done. If you want understanding, make us understand. Do not tell us what, tell us why.
Thank you to everyone who took the time to leave your feedback with detailed explanations on the Queues, your Fleet/Friend activity, and how these changes will effect your game play.
I can assure you the team is not implementing these changes to "kill the game" or your desire to play the PvE content.
We are working on the PvE Queues and will be updating you with more info as we can. In the interim we ask for your patience and understanding.
While the team continues to work, we will post more updates as they become available. In the meantime, please remember that the last thing we want to create is an argument between our players. Let's not make this thread an "us vs them" mentality.
Please let your fellow users post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at this in the same way you do.
Thanks everyone!
~CaptainSmirk
Just because it's not Cryptic's intention doesn't mean they need to keep pursuing this path. Okay it may not be your intention but despite having the opposite effect we see more of the same.
You've had my patience and understanding since open beta and it's got people like me nowhere especially in recent years so with all due respect I'll continue to sum up my view as briefly and politely as I can so I can't say I didn't warn you then let you get on with it.
Please let your fellow users post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at this in the same way you do.
Thanks everyone!
~CaptainSmirk
Have you ever had that discussion with Trendy about where to get lunch? And even if you each really, really, really, really, really, really want something different - you're not going to push it cause you figure next time, right?
With STO, there are all sorts of folks that want different things...and they really, really, really...etc...want those different things. But unlike it being lunch and maybe getting something different next time, there really isn't that next time.
So change that up a bit, and say it was a discussion with Trendy about what would be in the vending machine for one of the slots. That as a result of that discussion, as long as you were working there that is what would be in that vending machine slot.
And that's getting closer to how some of the discussions might go with STO. And since it's kind of permanent...it's going to get kind of vehement...yeah?
Definitely when we start getting into the folks that decide to speak for others...implementing things that the players are asking for...well, players are asking for all sorts of things and sometimes they're downright contradictory. So even more folks will end up...discussing things...in a somewhat aggressive manner, eh?
Sure, we should try to avoid calling one another doggie doo heads; but uh...well...it can definitely get difficult not to point to something as something when one sees it as something. The person might not be a doggie doo head...but their idea might well look like a doggie doo idea. Lol, I feel like it's preschool there. It's difficult to avoid being inflammatory about some requests out there when for some they might just come off as the stupidest thing ever said, eh?
One could just leave their thoughts and be done with it...no need to reply to the thoughts of others; but there is a fear that might get listened to instead. Basically the game will go in certain directions and the player will be left in the lurch.
So it's rally the forces...go at it...last one not banned can offer the feedback!
I want balanced endgame content rewards. Something takes 10 minutes and has mobs that can kill you...should offer better rewards than something that takes 5 minutes and has mobs that can only kill you if your internet hiccups.
I want challenging endgame content. I want that 50-59 scales you up to 60 "Training" tier where folks can learn the basics of the instances, learn to work in teams, learn more about their ships and abilities, etc, etc, etc...with it having "Normal" level rewards. I want that level 60 "Normal" tier which actually kicks it up a notch from that "Training" tier but offers "Advanced" rewards. It's the "Normal" play, folks have an idea of the instance, working in teams, their ships/abilities, etc. I want "Advanced" to require folks that have stepped up their game some, folks that are more familiar with the instance, working in teams, their ships/abilities, have upgraded their gear some, etc, etc, etc. Basically for "Advanced" to mean something more than just not being "Super Easy" or the like. That "Advanced" would have better rewards than "Training" or "Normal" offer. I want "Elite" to be..."Elite"...something only those folks that have worked at it are capable of doing. Does that make me an "Elitist"...sure, as long as one considers I doubt that I'd ever be able to run that level. An actual "Advanced" would likely push me to my limits. But I think folks that have limits further out should have something for them as well, yeah? And yeah, because they're playing at that level they should get a better level of rewards.
I want tier gating on content. Just because something at a higher tier offers a better reward, doesn't mean that somebody should be able to leech the reward from that content. If they want to run the more difficult content for the better reward, then they should work at getting themselves into a position to be able to run that content, yeah? Course, I haven't seen a recommendation/solution yet for something like that which could not be gamed and offer no real solution, just a bandaid on the leaky faucet that might slow the drip.
I have no problem with different things taking various amounts of time. This allows me to set daily, weekly, monthly, and even beyond goals for myself. Stuff I can work on for a few days or stuff I can work toward for a month or more.
I prefer scenario PvP over arena PvP. I like having objectives to fight over, things to accomplish other than just blowing the other guy up...heh, outside of blowing the other guy up while fighting over a particular objective.
I'm not a fan of monster farms. I feel that STO is way down the line from where I'd expect it to be. We hit up content in STO and slaughter stuff like we were killing rats on the outskirts of some town in some other game. I'd prefer we fought fewer foes and that the foes we fought were actually tougher. Have you ever done a solo run of SB24 and thought about your one ship there...how many ships you've blown up, how many Klingons you've just sent to Sto-vo-kor, and the like? Hell, hit up an ISA and how many Borg has that little group just obliterated?
I'm definitely not a fan of the magic wand healing in space. Nothing, imho, draws attention to space being little more than copypasta of some fantasy ground game than the magic wand healing in space. Healers? Space? Er...whut? I don't remember the Excelsior flying in to toss some magic wand heals at the Enterprise there. Don't remember any footage there from the Dominion War of certain ships flying around waving their magic wands. But there it is in STO. Huh?
I could go on and on...on and on. But in the end, posting any of that is going to draw a bunch of "Oh Hell noes, GTFO!" from folks that are perfectly happy with it the way it is or even want it more that way. There might be the one or two that say, "Well, I kind of dig this or that...but all of that, oh Hell noes, GTFO!"
It's along the lines of when I see folks asking for the game to be more alt-friendly. The first thing that tends to come to mind in seeing that is that folks are actually asking for the game to be more multiple-main-friendly which equates to alt-needy...and points to the game not having enough to do.
It's along the lines of when I see folks asking for things to be easier...I look around...it's a total WTF moment...and points to the game potentially having nothing to do. Same with the folks asking for more powercreep...just what are they asking for it for, eh?
I mean, I saw somebody say that Advanced queues already weren't doable and now Cryptic is making them harder. That's a total WTF moment.
It's along the lines of when I see folks talking about things taking too long. If everything was done, what would there be to do?
So yeah, as long as folks try to refrain from the doggie doo head stuff - I just can't see folks not "attacking" what others are saying when it could adversely affect the game they're trying to enjoy.
Meh, as it is...I started playing less and less and less...because there wasn't anything to do, because everything had been made easier and faster, etc, etc, etc. I didn't want to start rolling alts again just so I could pretend that I wasn't just doing the same stuff over again with a different toon. I might as well just have kept playing the first toon. Oh, awesome - this one toon has a few things different...that totally matters. To some it does, no doubt. Different folks and all that...
But yeah, I can't see folks not fighting for the direction they want the game to go or for changes they want...we're not just ordering lunch here. They're trying to take out the Milky Way and replace it with Snickers...and I'm allergic to nuts. No doggie doo head comments, sure, but it's on, baby...it's on!
I think the "understanding" portion of my request is pretty clear to many of you, when that request comes from me.
I'm not the "PR" guy, but I am the Forum Admin, so I do have the job to monitor the thread to make sure that TOS violations are handed accordingly.
Some of you have created some great questions asking for clarification, and I hope to get these addressed so we can come back in to provide some answers.
I wish I could give them to you right this second, I really do.
That is where the "patience" part comes in.
The only answer I can give you right now is that we have heard your response, and we have received an enormous amount of Feedback from the players.
So another push to only flying Tact- High dps ships, and forget you sci/engi who want to do something other than just big numbers...well you can play normal, leave the rest of the game to the "big kids" -.- seriously remove timers, stop nerfing, and let people work on builds other then E-pee enlarging numbers.
The queues affected by this nerf are difficult as it is, and rarely played because they already reward too little for the effort. This is exactly the opposite of what needed to be done with these missions, and we cannot understand why this is being done. If you want understanding, make us understand. Do not tell us what, tell us why.
Was in agreement until this part. No they aren't. They're the easiest ones in the game. Crystalline is a complete joke, and so was Cure with the invinciKang.
What didn't need to happen was a difficulty increase (good!) with a mark decrease (bad!). One or the other, see how it works out, then adjust as needed.
Of course, the dinosaur in the room is how much non-queued content pays out compared to queued.
Have you ever had that discussion with Trendy about where to get lunch? And even if you each really, really, really, really, really, really want something different - you're not going to push it cause you figure next time, right? [...]
I love reading your posts, they're so well thought out. I agree with everything you just said.
So another push to only flying Tact- High dps ships, and forget you sci/engi who want to do something other than just big numbers...well you can play normal, leave the rest of the game to the "big kids" -.- seriously remove timers, stop nerfing, and let people work on builds other then E-pee enlarging numbers.
Scis are awesome! So are true tanks that can pull agro off tac players with those "E-pee enlarging numbers". Build one -- you're always appreciated. I'm not convinced that some of the Elite content can even be done without a dedicated tank.
Thank you to everyone who took the time to leave your feedback with detailed explanations on the Queues, your Fleet/Friend activity, and how these changes will effect your game play.
I can assure you the team is not implementing these changes to "kill the game" or your desire to play the PvE content.
We are working on the PvE Queues and will be updating you with more info as we can. In the interim we ask for your patience and understanding.
While the team continues to work, we will post more updates as they become available. In the meantime, please remember that the last thing we want to create is an argument between our players. Let's not make this thread an "us vs them" mentality.
Please let your fellow users post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at this in the same way you do.
Thanks everyone!
~CaptainSmirk
I'll buy the not trying to kill the game thing because you would probably be out of a job if you were =p.
With that said what you're doing in this patch doesn't make sense. While you say that you're not trying to kill a desire for people to play PVE queues, that's exactly what you're doing with nerf after nerf. What you're doing is like an employer cutting someone's pay, making it harder for them to do their job, and then expecting them to want to work more hours. It's illogical. You're nerfing the rewards for missions, be it slightly or not, and are expecting people to want to play more of certain queues, which is insanity. You say you're not wanting kill people's desire to play certain pve content but that's exactly what these changes are doing and will do. You want us to be honest so that's what I'm going to do.
First the good stuff before I continue with my other points. PADDs getting their time gate and dilithium costs to complete cut WAYYY down, very good move, was much needed. From what I saw so far on tribble with the ease of the system and now this, it's looking to be a good thing. For the reward increase to bug hunt, it was much needed.
For the crystalline difficulty increases now. I can't say I didn't see the safe zone nerf coming. For the Cure Applied, there is no legitimate need for this. It's already easy enough to TRIBBLE up if you're in there with pugs. Overall with both missions you're increasing the chances of failure while cutting the rewards back, and you honestly think this isn't going to hurt participation in those missions. Not to be a jerk, but did you all fail economics or something. Unless you plan to do something to offset this, aside from buffs strictly to Delta content, then your actions will have the opposite effect of what you're after.
I get it, you want people to do the Delta Rising stuff, BUT Delta Rising isn't the only part of the game. Not everyone is going to like doing Delta missions or patrols. Personally unless i'm trying to xp farm I never do patrols because they're not the most fun content to me. I also enjoyed being able to craft until the nerfs were introduced that cut the amount of crafting materials that dropped and made them harder to get. I'm not saying crafting shouldn't take the effort to go out and get some materials, BUT it shouldn't be a full time job to get materials just to craft. I enjoyed being able to craft easier because I was able to create stuff easier, not only to try new stuff myself, but to help my fleet members.
If you want to encourage people to play more STF missions, then you need to do something about people constantly failing them. Very few missions on advanced you can actually run with random people and succeed. With the probability of failure so high, what is my motivation to do advanced, let alone elite, with anyone that's not a friend or someone I don't already know? This is an honest question that I'm sure others have asked as well, and I believe it's one that needs to be addressed.
This next patch would be better served correcting bugs that people have brought to your attention for weeks, and even years in some cases. Honestly there's no reason for the loadout bugs to not be fixed already. It's beyond infuriating when i've saved a loadout for my bridge officers to be unseated, at the start of a mission then having to reseat them on the fly when my loadout doesn't work right, and doesn't reseat all of the officers. You say that you're listening to the players and care what we have to say, but honestly, alot of your actions lately say otherwise, and that you're going to do your own thing regardless of what we think. Right now that's the state I see the game in.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Let me first start with an example of a game mechanic I think works remarkably well, the reputation system. Much more so these days. I know that with a week or two of casual play, I can obtain the means necessary to complete a rep in about by contributing to it daily for 40 days. Much less so on any alts I sponsor. There are many tangible, useful rewards to this system. Traits, high end gear, and even a dilithium payout. I could easily see the goal and what it took to get there.
Contrast that with systems and changes introduced around Delta Rising.
Upgrades - If you are not willing to endure the crafting grind to make superior tech upgrades yourself along with resource grinding, be prepared to grind for energy credits, which received a nerf via reductions in vendor trash payouts some time back. Then gamble for rarity and its mostly minor increase. You'll be gambling with dilithium BTW, so is that worth it to you? Better places to spend the dilithium and I am slowly upgrading one character's equipment as I go to no more than 14, no matter the rarity. The end goal seems neither achievable or worthwhile for the cost. And you can do fine without upgrading at all.
Specialization - I will not grind Argala. It's really disturbing that this one mission rewards so much xp which is still just a drop in the bucket for leveling. Not worth my time or the payout. Now if there were new exciting content to earn levels, maybe. The Foundry does not pay out nearly enough skill points as it should. At least for the your first time running a particular Foundry mission, there should be some extra reward. This one isn't even tied to any monetary system in the game.
PVE - This has never met the the promise that was made as it was changed. Advanced is still not equal to the old Elite. Rewards have been cut back. Difficulty is mixed at best for PUGs and the timer penalty for failure is pretty harsh. Now it seems that one of the few STFs that wasn't as bad after the change is getting a cut back. Maybe the first of several planned? And to push us towards content we aren't enjoying since it was changed?
If the goal is to keep people playing and paying, several decisions of late seem to run counter to that. I know that the game has to make money, but the rewards from the game design do not seem to be encouraging continued play or be worth the effort.
Specialization - I will not grind Argala. It's really disturbing that this one mission rewards so much xp which is still just a drop in the bucket for leveling. Not worth my time or the payout. Now if there were new exciting content to earn levels, maybe. The Foundry does not pay out nearly enough skill points as it should. At least for the your first time running a particular Foundry mission, there should be some extra reward. This one isn't even tied to any monetary system in the game.
Just to build on this, the focus here shouldn't be Argala, it should be delta quadrant patrols in general. They all pay out about evenly, I'm not sure why Argala caught on, but that it did isn't the problem. The problem is that these patrols are far, far more rewarding for the time invested than real story missions are. The obvious question is why? Why does something longer and more entertaining net less in for my time invested than this...I don't mean to be insulting, but fairly mindless content?
We've asked the team to give some more explanation to help ease this coming change to the PvE system and give more detail about the "why" many of you have been asking for.
We have created a new post concerning some of this information, as well as giving you an explanation of how these changes will fit in to some of our plans for future changes as well.
Please read THIS THREAD and reply with your feedback there.
I will be closing this thread as it was never not meant to create such derision and anger, although clearly it has, and as such will be shut down to push the discussion to the new thread which should hopefully help answer your concerns and give you abetter understanding of why these "baby steps" will need to be taken before the other steps can be implemented.
I hope this helps illuminate that we cannot always tell you everything we are planning, but when one step gets put into place, it is usually a foundation step to help improve the game in other ways that may not yet be completely clear.
I know that is not always the best way, but we are not trying to kill this game, as one forum user so rightly commented, that would not be great for all our pesky employment.
Comments
Ah, well that's kind of confusing considering we're discussing mark rewards and how that will affect people needing the marks more than the Dil exchange from them haha. Dil income is so irrelevant anyway considering the hard cap of 8K a day refining, 9K if you are a vet and have an upgraded fleet mine.
Without a full explanation from the developers, the recent string of nerfs feels very controversial. "Delta Rising" has introduced one set of nerfs after another. Many players, such as myself, are confused and worried about all of the recent changes. Players, not all, are suffering from buyer's remorse, anxiety, and fear. When a mess of changes occur in a drastic fashion, regardless about subject-matter, people will usually react in a negative manner.
Some Questions for Cryptic Only:
(1) What is the overall purpose of nerfing a mess of content? Is there a plan in place?
(2) What is the overall purpose of removing certain content? Are players just ignoring certain game maps?
(3) Are you going to remove or reduce the presence of Borg stfs?
(4) Are you transforming STO into a mobile device game?
(5) Are you going to reintroduce the Borg STFs in Season Ten?
I don't want to overreact. I am just very concerned about where these changes will lead.
Then what is the reason for increasing difficulty but lowering rewards? That is backwards logic. I know you are supposed to be the PR guy, but how about actually getting some information or having a dev come specifically explain the reasoning behind these changes. Not a response just saying that everything is all right.
IDK but reducing the rewards on older queue content and upping rewards for specific DR introduced queue content makes it appear that the Devs intentions IS to get players to use the DR content more (much like what happened with the increase in EXP rewards ONLY for the new DR introduced patrols.)
For me the ACTIONS speak louder than words - and the current slew of actions by the Cryptic STO Dev team seem to 'speak' fairly clearly and obviously as to the Dev team's intent. If that's not the case perhaps the STO Dev teams actions should be more in line with your words.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Yeah guys. Let all three people post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at it the same way as pretty much the entire playerbase. Smirks needs us to all shut up so these three people can have the floor.
Smirks, I am smirking because the time for patience and understanding went out the door when your team blatantly slapped the community in the face with this latest round of nerfs. Your payouts are too damn LOW! They are about as bad as getting ONE FLEET MARK per ONE dilithium and that is pretty terrible. You have been told, repeatedly, thoroughly, amply, and profusely what this community does and does not want, yet you persist with your arrogance thinking your team knows better than the consumers.
Get over yourselves, this game's content post LoR has sucked the dog.
The saddest part is how gorram trite you people are being about it. Yes. Trite. That is your team. In fact, the current content is so bad, you're going back and surgically removing and altering good content to hide how terrible the current content is. In what realm does turding up good content to bring it in TRIBBLE parameters of the current content an acceptable gameplan to decrease the sucking curve?
Patience, some of us can do. But understanding is another matter. You see, we cannot understand why Cryptic did this until someone tells us. Until then, we can only assume as to why. And that will not garner you, or Cryptic, any good will, because - as evidenced by this thread - people do not trust Cryptic's intentions. On the whole they are assumed to be profit-motivated at best. At worst, players feel like they are being forced to play what Cryptic wants them to play. And, news flash, people want to play a game how they want to play it. Shepherding players generates negative feelings and irritation. The fact of the matter is, and I cannot understate this point, Cryptic did not need to do this. The queues affected by this nerf are difficult as it is, and rarely played because they already reward too little for the effort. This is exactly the opposite of what needed to be done with these missions, and we cannot understand why this is being done. If you want understanding, make us understand. Do not tell us what, tell us why.
Just because it's not Cryptic's intention doesn't mean they need to keep pursuing this path. Okay it may not be your intention but despite having the opposite effect we see more of the same.
You've had my patience and understanding since open beta and it's got people like me nowhere especially in recent years so with all due respect I'll continue to sum up my view as briefly and politely as I can so I can't say I didn't warn you then let you get on with it.
Have you ever had that discussion with Trendy about where to get lunch? And even if you each really, really, really, really, really, really want something different - you're not going to push it cause you figure next time, right?
With STO, there are all sorts of folks that want different things...and they really, really, really...etc...want those different things. But unlike it being lunch and maybe getting something different next time, there really isn't that next time.
So change that up a bit, and say it was a discussion with Trendy about what would be in the vending machine for one of the slots. That as a result of that discussion, as long as you were working there that is what would be in that vending machine slot.
And that's getting closer to how some of the discussions might go with STO. And since it's kind of permanent...it's going to get kind of vehement...yeah?
Definitely when we start getting into the folks that decide to speak for others...implementing things that the players are asking for...well, players are asking for all sorts of things and sometimes they're downright contradictory. So even more folks will end up...discussing things...in a somewhat aggressive manner, eh?
Sure, we should try to avoid calling one another doggie doo heads; but uh...well...it can definitely get difficult not to point to something as something when one sees it as something. The person might not be a doggie doo head...but their idea might well look like a doggie doo idea. Lol, I feel like it's preschool there. It's difficult to avoid being inflammatory about some requests out there when for some they might just come off as the stupidest thing ever said, eh?
One could just leave their thoughts and be done with it...no need to reply to the thoughts of others; but there is a fear that might get listened to instead. Basically the game will go in certain directions and the player will be left in the lurch.
So it's rally the forces...go at it...last one not banned can offer the feedback!
I want balanced endgame content rewards. Something takes 10 minutes and has mobs that can kill you...should offer better rewards than something that takes 5 minutes and has mobs that can only kill you if your internet hiccups.
I want challenging endgame content. I want that 50-59 scales you up to 60 "Training" tier where folks can learn the basics of the instances, learn to work in teams, learn more about their ships and abilities, etc, etc, etc...with it having "Normal" level rewards. I want that level 60 "Normal" tier which actually kicks it up a notch from that "Training" tier but offers "Advanced" rewards. It's the "Normal" play, folks have an idea of the instance, working in teams, their ships/abilities, etc. I want "Advanced" to require folks that have stepped up their game some, folks that are more familiar with the instance, working in teams, their ships/abilities, have upgraded their gear some, etc, etc, etc. Basically for "Advanced" to mean something more than just not being "Super Easy" or the like. That "Advanced" would have better rewards than "Training" or "Normal" offer. I want "Elite" to be..."Elite"...something only those folks that have worked at it are capable of doing. Does that make me an "Elitist"...sure, as long as one considers I doubt that I'd ever be able to run that level. An actual "Advanced" would likely push me to my limits. But I think folks that have limits further out should have something for them as well, yeah? And yeah, because they're playing at that level they should get a better level of rewards.
I want tier gating on content. Just because something at a higher tier offers a better reward, doesn't mean that somebody should be able to leech the reward from that content. If they want to run the more difficult content for the better reward, then they should work at getting themselves into a position to be able to run that content, yeah? Course, I haven't seen a recommendation/solution yet for something like that which could not be gamed and offer no real solution, just a bandaid on the leaky faucet that might slow the drip.
I have no problem with different things taking various amounts of time. This allows me to set daily, weekly, monthly, and even beyond goals for myself. Stuff I can work on for a few days or stuff I can work toward for a month or more.
I prefer scenario PvP over arena PvP. I like having objectives to fight over, things to accomplish other than just blowing the other guy up...heh, outside of blowing the other guy up while fighting over a particular objective.
I'm not a fan of monster farms. I feel that STO is way down the line from where I'd expect it to be. We hit up content in STO and slaughter stuff like we were killing rats on the outskirts of some town in some other game. I'd prefer we fought fewer foes and that the foes we fought were actually tougher. Have you ever done a solo run of SB24 and thought about your one ship there...how many ships you've blown up, how many Klingons you've just sent to Sto-vo-kor, and the like? Hell, hit up an ISA and how many Borg has that little group just obliterated?
I'm definitely not a fan of the magic wand healing in space. Nothing, imho, draws attention to space being little more than copypasta of some fantasy ground game than the magic wand healing in space. Healers? Space? Er...whut? I don't remember the Excelsior flying in to toss some magic wand heals at the Enterprise there. Don't remember any footage there from the Dominion War of certain ships flying around waving their magic wands. But there it is in STO. Huh?
I could go on and on...on and on. But in the end, posting any of that is going to draw a bunch of "Oh Hell noes, GTFO!" from folks that are perfectly happy with it the way it is or even want it more that way. There might be the one or two that say, "Well, I kind of dig this or that...but all of that, oh Hell noes, GTFO!"
It's along the lines of when I see folks asking for the game to be more alt-friendly. The first thing that tends to come to mind in seeing that is that folks are actually asking for the game to be more multiple-main-friendly which equates to alt-needy...and points to the game not having enough to do.
It's along the lines of when I see folks asking for things to be easier...I look around...it's a total WTF moment...and points to the game potentially having nothing to do. Same with the folks asking for more powercreep...just what are they asking for it for, eh?
I mean, I saw somebody say that Advanced queues already weren't doable and now Cryptic is making them harder. That's a total WTF moment.
It's along the lines of when I see folks talking about things taking too long. If everything was done, what would there be to do?
So yeah, as long as folks try to refrain from the doggie doo head stuff - I just can't see folks not "attacking" what others are saying when it could adversely affect the game they're trying to enjoy.
Meh, as it is...I started playing less and less and less...because there wasn't anything to do, because everything had been made easier and faster, etc, etc, etc. I didn't want to start rolling alts again just so I could pretend that I wasn't just doing the same stuff over again with a different toon. I might as well just have kept playing the first toon. Oh, awesome - this one toon has a few things different...that totally matters. To some it does, no doubt. Different folks and all that...
But yeah, I can't see folks not fighting for the direction they want the game to go or for changes they want...we're not just ordering lunch here. They're trying to take out the Milky Way and replace it with Snickers...and I'm allergic to nuts. No doggie doo head comments, sure, but it's on, baby...it's on!
I'm not the "PR" guy, but I am the Forum Admin, so I do have the job to monitor the thread to make sure that TOS violations are handed accordingly.
Some of you have created some great questions asking for clarification, and I hope to get these addressed so we can come back in to provide some answers.
I wish I could give them to you right this second, I really do.
That is where the "patience" part comes in.
The only answer I can give you right now is that we have heard your response, and we have received an enormous amount of Feedback from the players.
~CaptainSmirk
Was in agreement until this part. No they aren't. They're the easiest ones in the game. Crystalline is a complete joke, and so was Cure with the invinciKang.
What didn't need to happen was a difficulty increase (good!) with a mark decrease (bad!). One or the other, see how it works out, then adjust as needed.
Of course, the dinosaur in the room is how much non-queued content pays out compared to queued.
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I love reading your posts, they're so well thought out. I agree with everything you just said.
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Scis are awesome! So are true tanks that can pull agro off tac players with those "E-pee enlarging numbers". Build one -- you're always appreciated. I'm not convinced that some of the Elite content can even be done without a dedicated tank.
I'll buy the not trying to kill the game thing because you would probably be out of a job if you were =p.
With that said what you're doing in this patch doesn't make sense. While you say that you're not trying to kill a desire for people to play PVE queues, that's exactly what you're doing with nerf after nerf. What you're doing is like an employer cutting someone's pay, making it harder for them to do their job, and then expecting them to want to work more hours. It's illogical. You're nerfing the rewards for missions, be it slightly or not, and are expecting people to want to play more of certain queues, which is insanity. You say you're not wanting kill people's desire to play certain pve content but that's exactly what these changes are doing and will do. You want us to be honest so that's what I'm going to do.
First the good stuff before I continue with my other points. PADDs getting their time gate and dilithium costs to complete cut WAYYY down, very good move, was much needed. From what I saw so far on tribble with the ease of the system and now this, it's looking to be a good thing. For the reward increase to bug hunt, it was much needed.
For the crystalline difficulty increases now. I can't say I didn't see the safe zone nerf coming. For the Cure Applied, there is no legitimate need for this. It's already easy enough to TRIBBLE up if you're in there with pugs. Overall with both missions you're increasing the chances of failure while cutting the rewards back, and you honestly think this isn't going to hurt participation in those missions. Not to be a jerk, but did you all fail economics or something. Unless you plan to do something to offset this, aside from buffs strictly to Delta content, then your actions will have the opposite effect of what you're after.
I get it, you want people to do the Delta Rising stuff, BUT Delta Rising isn't the only part of the game. Not everyone is going to like doing Delta missions or patrols. Personally unless i'm trying to xp farm I never do patrols because they're not the most fun content to me. I also enjoyed being able to craft until the nerfs were introduced that cut the amount of crafting materials that dropped and made them harder to get. I'm not saying crafting shouldn't take the effort to go out and get some materials, BUT it shouldn't be a full time job to get materials just to craft. I enjoyed being able to craft easier because I was able to create stuff easier, not only to try new stuff myself, but to help my fleet members.
If you want to encourage people to play more STF missions, then you need to do something about people constantly failing them. Very few missions on advanced you can actually run with random people and succeed. With the probability of failure so high, what is my motivation to do advanced, let alone elite, with anyone that's not a friend or someone I don't already know? This is an honest question that I'm sure others have asked as well, and I believe it's one that needs to be addressed.
This next patch would be better served correcting bugs that people have brought to your attention for weeks, and even years in some cases. Honestly there's no reason for the loadout bugs to not be fixed already. It's beyond infuriating when i've saved a loadout for my bridge officers to be unseated, at the start of a mission then having to reseat them on the fly when my loadout doesn't work right, and doesn't reseat all of the officers. You say that you're listening to the players and care what we have to say, but honestly, alot of your actions lately say otherwise, and that you're going to do your own thing regardless of what we think. Right now that's the state I see the game in.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Contrast that with systems and changes introduced around Delta Rising.
Upgrades - If you are not willing to endure the crafting grind to make superior tech upgrades yourself along with resource grinding, be prepared to grind for energy credits, which received a nerf via reductions in vendor trash payouts some time back. Then gamble for rarity and its mostly minor increase. You'll be gambling with dilithium BTW, so is that worth it to you? Better places to spend the dilithium and I am slowly upgrading one character's equipment as I go to no more than 14, no matter the rarity. The end goal seems neither achievable or worthwhile for the cost. And you can do fine without upgrading at all.
Specialization - I will not grind Argala. It's really disturbing that this one mission rewards so much xp which is still just a drop in the bucket for leveling. Not worth my time or the payout. Now if there were new exciting content to earn levels, maybe. The Foundry does not pay out nearly enough skill points as it should. At least for the your first time running a particular Foundry mission, there should be some extra reward. This one isn't even tied to any monetary system in the game.
PVE - This has never met the the promise that was made as it was changed. Advanced is still not equal to the old Elite. Rewards have been cut back. Difficulty is mixed at best for PUGs and the timer penalty for failure is pretty harsh. Now it seems that one of the few STFs that wasn't as bad after the change is getting a cut back. Maybe the first of several planned? And to push us towards content we aren't enjoying since it was changed?
If the goal is to keep people playing and paying, several decisions of late seem to run counter to that. I know that the game has to make money, but the rewards from the game design do not seem to be encouraging continued play or be worth the effort.
Just to build on this, the focus here shouldn't be Argala, it should be delta quadrant patrols in general. They all pay out about evenly, I'm not sure why Argala caught on, but that it did isn't the problem. The problem is that these patrols are far, far more rewarding for the time invested than real story missions are. The obvious question is why? Why does something longer and more entertaining net less in for my time invested than this...I don't mean to be insulting, but fairly mindless content?
We have created a new post concerning some of this information, as well as giving you an explanation of how these changes will fit in to some of our plans for future changes as well.
Please read THIS THREAD and reply with your feedback there.
I will be closing this thread as it was never not meant to create such derision and anger, although clearly it has, and as such will be shut down to push the discussion to the new thread which should hopefully help answer your concerns and give you abetter understanding of why these "baby steps" will need to be taken before the other steps can be implemented.
I hope this helps illuminate that we cannot always tell you everything we are planning, but when one step gets put into place, it is usually a foundation step to help improve the game in other ways that may not yet be completely clear.
I know that is not always the best way, but we are not trying to kill this game, as one forum user so rightly commented, that would not be great for all our pesky employment.
~CaptainSmirk