I'm glad Cryptic is still looking at the queue issue and attempting to improve it. As far as feedback goes I'm all for making the queued content harder. The queues were way too easy prior to Delta Rising and now the queues are way too tedious. The reason the queues are tedious is because the hull/shield pools on NPCs were drastically buffed to the point where it takes a long time to kill anything.
Killing NPCs should be challenging rather than tedious. I understand the need to buff NPC hull/shield mods to compensate for damage increase, but the buff is too extreme on advanced/elite and normal difficulty NPCs are far too weak. One key way to make NPCs more difficult to fight would be to increase their defense rating and add +All Damage Resistance Rating. Another way to improve difficulty would be to add abilities to NPCs while providing them with the code to use them appropriately.
I know for a fact it is possible for NPCs to use abilities intelligently because I've seen how magnificently implemented the Vaadwaur Ground NPCs are in the Delta Rising content. Fighting Vaadwaur Ground NPCs is fairly challenging at higher difficulties and they are fun to fight. In fact, I'm sure Kobali Prime would be a very popular map if the rewards weren't so limiting (7 marks and 90 dilithium for a 15 minute mission isn't worth it.)
Unfortunately this feedback is negative in tone, but I do hope it is helpful.
Perhaps a better solution to populating the public queues would be to increase the rewards for public queuing above that of private queuing. What form that would take, i leave to respectful debate.
Ignore the posts with vitriol and engage with those who are being constructive and you just might see a change of tone from the community.
Cryptic is to blame for all the dissent you see here. Players are not just complaining for the sake of complaining: there's fair reasoning behind all the negativity. A change of tone from the community, for the better, needs to happen as a consequence of reasonable actions coming from Cryptic. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening unless Cryptic completely changes the direction they're going.
Since you do not listen to us anyway (or even bother to listen to the people who do your job on the test servers, using thier own time and effort to find bugs that you ignore and then go on to accuse the player base for 'exploiting').
That is all you deserve now - any goodwill towards you (from me at least) has now expired.
Well, I'll say one thing after my sleep, as a general statement:
It'll take a lot more than this (one change, or a long list of changes) to make me reconsider playing this game - it's fun at the core gameplay XD I don't hate grind for existing, and feel no need to have the best-of-best stuff, or that I need something right now
And I remember working the exploration clusters for Marks of Valor + such, plus still fly the Kar'Fi I bought with Emblems, so I've been here for awhile as my sig would imply. That should say something lol
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
The game continues to move in the wrong direction. DR content isn't any more special than pre-DR content is. All queues have the right to survive, & these changes impede that right. We players should also have the right to win queues; this kneejerk reaction to nerfing queue rewards which players are winning at is unacceptable. Your peer MMOs do not engage in these after-the-fact increases in difficulty. Neither should STO.
The Tribble patch notes in this cycle not a kind anniversary gift for STO at all. Once again, you should reconsider the dwindling populations in the queues when making balance changes.
Did it never occur to you that by increasing the difficulty of queues, you have discouraged less-skilled players from participating? And then because there are fewer less-skilled players in the queues, those that remained would be more skilled and artificially inflate the win percentages?
This is the slippery slope upward that you are turning STO into. This is how you eliminate the majority of a population from STO. This is not a healthy decision for the long-term success of the game; as an F2P game, STO should cater to the long tail of unskilled players- not the few who can beat Adv/Eli queues.
This is how you are moving the game in the wrong direction. Do not push this patch to Holodeck!
DPS-Bronze, DPS-Silver, DPS-Gold, etc. are FAKE! They were created by an outvoted minority who destroyed the original DPS channels!
Tactical Team sucked, once upon a time. I got it buffed. Don't think for a minute that Cryptic ignores forum feedback.
Shield array, engines, and deflector = total of 3,000 omega marks. Bad enough grinding that out as it is, now it will take even longer.
So the only explanation to all of this is:
"some events players were completing too fast"
"some events were rewarding too many marks"
Seriously? Why is it that so long after the introduction of the reputation system (2+ years) you decide these are "bugs" that need fixing while other actual game breaking bugs go left unfixed?
It's like you're kicking us in the crotch and asking us afterwards to tell you if it was a good idea to do so and to describe the pain we feel. We can complain about it. But it doesn't change the fact you still kicked us and somewhere down the road you'll just kick us again.
"You will take part in the DR Expansion. You WILL play where and what we tell you, or you will be penalized."
Thanks.
Even long after DR was released, I have pumped my fair share of money and time into this game. I've read so many posts that I thought were from people who were just being dramatic or just wanted to complain for the sake of complaining. That being said, I've been starting to agree with the complaints. Cryptic decided to make many decisions that have ultimately alienated many players. We gave our feedback as to why we were not happy. It seems that Cryptic saw what was pushing people away, and thought, let's do more of that. Let's do exactly what is pissing people off the most, but slowly make it be on a grander scale. Yeah, that'll show them that we care about their feedback and want them to enjoy their experience, and you know, keep playing and giving us money. Well Cryptic, you've lost all of the money in my wallet that might have gone to you. I used to spend quite a bit. No more though. I'll still play, though not as often as I used to play (why should I, so they can keep making it harder and rewarding less?). But I vow not to reward middle fingers to the player base such as this.
Maybe its just me... Head guy leaves, game slowly improves, Head guy comes back, game spirals downward. Now correlation doesn't mean causation but.....
Well, I'll say one thing after my sleep, as a general statement:
It'll take a lot more than this (one change, or a long list of changes) to make me reconsider playing this game - it's fun at the core gameplay XD I don't hate grind for existing, and feel no need to have the best-of-best stuff, or that I need something right now
And I remember working the exploration clusters for Marks of Valor + such, plus still fly the Kar'Fi I bought with Emblems, so I've been here for awhile as my sig would imply. That should say something lol
For me, it's been a gradual wear and tear sort of thing. Hasn't been the omgherd, that's it, I'm out of here thing...it's just, along the lines of the meh in your sig, a case of growing meh. It's easier and easier not to bother doing things. It's easier and easier not even bothering to login.
Like the other day, I was grumbling about something. Somebody suggested I chill. So I went to do something else. I ran into another bug. That discussion went way over my head, so I went to do something else. I ran into another bug. That just wears on me.
I look back at those release notes I posted up there and it kind of reflects a meh of its own. The Breach and Storming come up often as examples in some of my "rants" about a lack of balance in rewards of content. I'd totally forgotten they added Delta Marks to them...but to me, that just shows the complete disconnect that appears from time to time with Cryptic.
Cause it's...Oh cool, now not only are Breach and Storming under-rewarding for what they already were; but now they're also under-rewarding for Delta Marks too! Wheeeeeeee! /facepalm
So while it's not a case that they're only just nerfing things left, right, and center - there are, imho, nifty things they are doing - some of the things they are doing just leave me wondering what their actual involvement in the game is...if at all.
Hell, for some of the stuff that came with Delta Rising I wondered if they even were involved in the development of it or if they just rubber stamped things that some third party did some contractual work for them. And DR wasn't the first time that's come up...where they talk about things doing one thing and it's nowhere near what it actually does. How can somebody be the developer of the game and have that happen unless it's a case of just giving a cursory glance at stuff that's been outsourced and rubber stamping it?
The getting into some of the "balancing" stuff with content...meh. Yeah, meh.
Lol, as long as you keep moving fast...don't slow down, don't look at it...imho, it's just a little meh here or there. If you stop for a moment, all that meh can catch up to you and turn into a massive pile of WTF.
It's not a case of thinking that Cryptic is out to get us. It's not a case of thinking that Cryptic are incompetent. But it's definitely difficult for me not to feel that there's not a disconnect there of some sort.
It's like deciding that Bug Hunt was both too easy and under-rewarding. I saw the thread about Delta Marks and I was kind of floored. I hate it because it gets into that "I've got a sandwich" territory...but even with barely playing, it's been a case of it raining Delta Marks all over the place. I've got over 5k of them there - that's not counting those that were used for stuff along the way: 500 for the Advanced Beam, 500 for the Gel Pack, 500 for the Neutronic Torp, nor 750 for the Core. That's not counting how many ever I fed there at the start into hourly boxes trying to get APCs. I'm only 23 Intel, 15 Pilot, 0 Commando with 4 sitting there...I can easily picture folks with well over 10k Delta Marks...cause it's just raining them left, right, and center. I even saw the reply about BH and Delta Marks in this thread, and I just...meh...
I haven't personally felt an issue of any difficulty in getting anything. No, I'm not a I need it now person...so that means I don't have a problem with something perhaps taking a week or longer to get. But I do have an issue with is that there's just not much to do - because so much of the stuff offers crappy rewards for the investment by comparison, that folks just aren't bothering with it. So there's nobody else joining up those queues to play stuff just to play it...is the feeling that I get. Same has happened over in PvP.
I just don't "feel" a balanced endgame exists on any level. Between the lack of balance for rewards in content based on time/difficulty/effort mixed in with all the bugs...
...yeah, if one stops to catch their breath, imho, it's easy for them to get overwhelmed.
Course, it's going to affect different folks differently - everybody's got their own thresholds.
And I've said it before to others, so maybe it is just a case of taking my own advice...if there isn't enough of a reason to log in, then just don't log in. Given that the 3-4 folks I used to see multiple times a day are all gone...well, yeah...meh.
Maybe its just me... Head guy leaves, game slowly improves, Head guy comes back, game spirals downward. Now correlation doesn't mean causation but.....
So true - Maybe they will bring D Stahl back, doubt he would ever think about taking away spec points.
Thank you to everyone who took the time to leave your feedback with detailed explanations on the Queues, your Fleet/Friend activity, and how these changes will effect your game play.
I can assure you the team is not implementing these changes to "kill the game" or your desire to play the PvE content.
We are working on the PvE Queues and will be updating you with more info as we can. In the interim we ask for your patience and understanding.
While the team continues to work, we will post more updates as they become available. In the meantime, please remember that the last thing we want to create is an argument between our players. Let's not make this thread an "us vs them" mentality.
Please let your fellow users post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at this in the same way you do.
I can assure you the team is not implementing these changes to "kill the game" or your desire to play the PvE content.
Really? Cause they're achieving the latter pretty succesfully for me.
-edit- I know this sounds sarcastic, but it's because I'm annoyed. I *want* to like this game, but recent changes and DR's meta in general are making it very difficult. Please understand this.
Please let your fellow users post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at this in the same way you do.
From what I've seen, this is one of the few threads where pretty much all of the users are on the same page. It's the dev team who seem to have a difference of opinion on what constitutes "fun".
Really the only 'update' we are hoping for is "oh TRIBBLE we wrote decreased when we meant to say increased".
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Right now a single CCA run rock rewards 960 + 800 (marks) or 1760. I can run ten in an hour easily with my alt army if not more yielding me 17,600 an hour. With this proposed change that is reduced down to 15,600 if I don't get any optional but no failures (unlikely not to get optional on most). or about a 9% earning reduction. That is still far higher than any other active content especially considering the additional earnings from daily bonus boxes and waiting for the dil weekend to turn in the marks. The reduction does not go far enough actually unless I begin to fail it in a PuG regularly.
I do disagree with the idea that if more than three of my randomly selected teammates are baddies I fail leading to frustration as the balancing method for the rewards. Hopefully that does not happen very often.
A better idea might be to make the event take longer somehow other than a mandatory timer. Perhaps let the tholians provide a touch of healing for the CE, let the CE be immune until the tholians are destroyed perhaps, I dunno be creative.
And the Cure change, the only thing I can figure is that the only ones playing it regularly are premade groups. Leads to a self fulfilling prophecy type deal especially with no elite version for those who desire a challenge to play.
But I do have an issue with is that there's just not much to do - because so much of the stuff offers crappy rewards for the investment by comparison, that folks just aren't bothering with it.
Agreed. I want crafting materials and spec points. I cannot stand the patrols and the crafting material options for someone who prefers to PuG are extremely limited depending upon what I'm after. I typically have a single option that is viable at best.
Right now a single CCA run rock rewards 960 + 800 (marks) or 1760. I can run ten in an hour easily with my alt army if not more yielding me 17,600 an hour.
Where are you getting those figures from? CCA doesn't reward anywhere near that amount of marks.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
I think he means the dil he'd get from converting the marks it rewards.
Ah, well that's kind of confusing considering we're discussing mark rewards and how that will affect people needing the marks more than the Dil exchange from them haha. Dil income is so irrelevant anyway considering the hard cap of 8K a day refining, 9K if you are a vet and have an upgraded fleet mine.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Thank you to everyone who took the time to leave your feedback with detailed explanations on the Queues, your Fleet/Friend activity, and how these changes will effect your game play.
I can assure you the team is not implementing these changes to "kill the game" or your desire to play the PvE content.
We are working on the PvE Queues and will be updating you with more info as we can. In the interim we ask for your patience and understanding.
While the team continues to work, we will post more updates as they become available. In the meantime, please remember that the last thing we want to create is an argument between our players. Let's not make this thread an "us vs them" mentality.
Please let your fellow users post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at this in the same way you do.
Thanks everyone!
~CaptainSmirk
Without a full explanation from the developers, the recent string of nerfs feels very controversial. "Delta Rising" has introduced one set of nerfs after another. Many players, such as myself, are confused and worried about all of the recent changes. Players, not all, are suffering from buyer's remorse, anxiety, and fear. When a mess of changes occur in a drastic fashion, regardless about subject-matter, people will usually react in a negative manner.
Some Questions for Cryptic Only:
(1) What is the overall purpose of nerfing a mess of content? Is there a plan in place?
(2) What is the overall purpose of removing certain content? Are players just ignoring certain game maps?
(3) Are you going to remove or reduce the presence of Borg stfs?
(4) Are you transforming STO into a mobile device game?
(5) Are you going to reintroduce the Borg STFs in Season Ten?
I don't want to overreact. I am just very concerned about where these changes will lead.
Thank you to everyone who took the time to leave your feedback with detailed explanations on the Queues, your Fleet/Friend activity, and how these changes will effect your game play.
I can assure you the team is not implementing these changes to "kill the game" or your desire to play the PvE content.
We are working on the PvE Queues and will be updating you with more info as we can. In the interim we ask for your patience and understanding.
While the team continues to work, we will post more updates as they become available. In the meantime, please remember that the last thing we want to create is an argument between our players. Let's not make this thread an "us vs them" mentality.
Please let your fellow users post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at this in the same way you do.
Thanks everyone!
~CaptainSmirk
Then what is the reason for increasing difficulty but lowering rewards? That is backwards logic. I know you are supposed to be the PR guy, but how about actually getting some information or having a dev come specifically explain the reasoning behind these changes. Not a response just saying that everything is all right.
I can assure you the team is not implementing these changes to "kill the game" or your desire to play the PvE content.
~CaptainSmirk
IDK but reducing the rewards on older queue content and upping rewards for specific DR introduced queue content makes it appear that the Devs intentions IS to get players to use the DR content more (much like what happened with the increase in EXP rewards ONLY for the new DR introduced patrols.)
For me the ACTIONS speak louder than words - and the current slew of actions by the Cryptic STO Dev team seem to 'speak' fairly clearly and obviously as to the Dev team's intent. If that's not the case perhaps the STO Dev teams actions should be more in line with your words.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Thank you to everyone who took the time to leave your feedback with detailed explanations on the Queues, your Fleet/Friend activity, and how these changes will effect your game play.
I can assure you the team is not implementing these changes to "kill the game" or your desire to play the PvE content.
We are working on the PvE Queues and will be updating you with more info as we can. In the interim we ask for your patience and understanding.
While the team continues to work, we will post more updates as they become available. In the meantime, please remember that the last thing we want to create is an argument between our players. Let's not make this thread an "us vs them" mentality.
Please let your fellow users post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at this in the same way you do.
Thanks everyone!
~CaptainSmirk
Yeah guys. Let all three people post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at it the same way as pretty much the entire playerbase. Smirks needs us to all shut up so these three people can have the floor.
Smirks, I am smirking because the time for patience and understanding went out the door when your team blatantly slapped the community in the face with this latest round of nerfs. Your payouts are too damn LOW! They are about as bad as getting ONE FLEET MARK per ONE dilithium and that is pretty terrible. You have been told, repeatedly, thoroughly, amply, and profusely what this community does and does not want, yet you persist with your arrogance thinking your team knows better than the consumers.
Get over yourselves, this game's content post LoR has sucked the dog.
The saddest part is how gorram trite you people are being about it. Yes. Trite. That is your team. In fact, the current content is so bad, you're going back and surgically removing and altering good content to hide how terrible the current content is. In what realm does turding up good content to bring it in TRIBBLE parameters of the current content an acceptable gameplan to decrease the sucking curve?
Anyway, like I was sayin', shrimp is the fruit of the sea. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey's uh, shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich. That- that's about it. - Bubba
We are working on the PvE Queues and will be updating you with more info as we can. In the interim we ask for your patience and understanding.
Thanks everyone!
~CaptainSmirk
Patience, some of us can do. But understanding is another matter. You see, we cannot understand why Cryptic did this until someone tells us. Until then, we can only assume as to why. And that will not garner you, or Cryptic, any good will, because - as evidenced by this thread - people do not trust Cryptic's intentions. On the whole they are assumed to be profit-motivated at best. At worst, players feel like they are being forced to play what Cryptic wants them to play. And, news flash, people want to play a game how they want to play it. Shepherding players generates negative feelings and irritation. The fact of the matter is, and I cannot understate this point, Cryptic did not need to do this. The queues affected by this nerf are difficult as it is, and rarely played because they already reward too little for the effort. This is exactly the opposite of what needed to be done with these missions, and we cannot understand why this is being done. If you want understanding, make us understand. Do not tell us what, tell us why.
Thank you to everyone who took the time to leave your feedback with detailed explanations on the Queues, your Fleet/Friend activity, and how these changes will effect your game play.
I can assure you the team is not implementing these changes to "kill the game" or your desire to play the PvE content.
We are working on the PvE Queues and will be updating you with more info as we can. In the interim we ask for your patience and understanding.
While the team continues to work, we will post more updates as they become available. In the meantime, please remember that the last thing we want to create is an argument between our players. Let's not make this thread an "us vs them" mentality.
Please let your fellow users post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at this in the same way you do.
Thanks everyone!
~CaptainSmirk
Just because it's not Cryptic's intention doesn't mean they need to keep pursuing this path. Okay it may not be your intention but despite having the opposite effect we see more of the same.
You've had my patience and understanding since open beta and it's got people like me nowhere especially in recent years so with all due respect I'll continue to sum up my view as briefly and politely as I can so I can't say I didn't warn you then let you get on with it.
Please let your fellow users post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at this in the same way you do.
Thanks everyone!
~CaptainSmirk
Have you ever had that discussion with Trendy about where to get lunch? And even if you each really, really, really, really, really, really want something different - you're not going to push it cause you figure next time, right?
With STO, there are all sorts of folks that want different things...and they really, really, really...etc...want those different things. But unlike it being lunch and maybe getting something different next time, there really isn't that next time.
So change that up a bit, and say it was a discussion with Trendy about what would be in the vending machine for one of the slots. That as a result of that discussion, as long as you were working there that is what would be in that vending machine slot.
And that's getting closer to how some of the discussions might go with STO. And since it's kind of permanent...it's going to get kind of vehement...yeah?
Definitely when we start getting into the folks that decide to speak for others...implementing things that the players are asking for...well, players are asking for all sorts of things and sometimes they're downright contradictory. So even more folks will end up...discussing things...in a somewhat aggressive manner, eh?
Sure, we should try to avoid calling one another doggie doo heads; but uh...well...it can definitely get difficult not to point to something as something when one sees it as something. The person might not be a doggie doo head...but their idea might well look like a doggie doo idea. Lol, I feel like it's preschool there. It's difficult to avoid being inflammatory about some requests out there when for some they might just come off as the stupidest thing ever said, eh?
One could just leave their thoughts and be done with it...no need to reply to the thoughts of others; but there is a fear that might get listened to instead. Basically the game will go in certain directions and the player will be left in the lurch.
So it's rally the forces...go at it...last one not banned can offer the feedback!
I want balanced endgame content rewards. Something takes 10 minutes and has mobs that can kill you...should offer better rewards than something that takes 5 minutes and has mobs that can only kill you if your internet hiccups.
I want challenging endgame content. I want that 50-59 scales you up to 60 "Training" tier where folks can learn the basics of the instances, learn to work in teams, learn more about their ships and abilities, etc, etc, etc...with it having "Normal" level rewards. I want that level 60 "Normal" tier which actually kicks it up a notch from that "Training" tier but offers "Advanced" rewards. It's the "Normal" play, folks have an idea of the instance, working in teams, their ships/abilities, etc. I want "Advanced" to require folks that have stepped up their game some, folks that are more familiar with the instance, working in teams, their ships/abilities, have upgraded their gear some, etc, etc, etc. Basically for "Advanced" to mean something more than just not being "Super Easy" or the like. That "Advanced" would have better rewards than "Training" or "Normal" offer. I want "Elite" to be..."Elite"...something only those folks that have worked at it are capable of doing. Does that make me an "Elitist"...sure, as long as one considers I doubt that I'd ever be able to run that level. An actual "Advanced" would likely push me to my limits. But I think folks that have limits further out should have something for them as well, yeah? And yeah, because they're playing at that level they should get a better level of rewards.
I want tier gating on content. Just because something at a higher tier offers a better reward, doesn't mean that somebody should be able to leech the reward from that content. If they want to run the more difficult content for the better reward, then they should work at getting themselves into a position to be able to run that content, yeah? Course, I haven't seen a recommendation/solution yet for something like that which could not be gamed and offer no real solution, just a bandaid on the leaky faucet that might slow the drip.
I have no problem with different things taking various amounts of time. This allows me to set daily, weekly, monthly, and even beyond goals for myself. Stuff I can work on for a few days or stuff I can work toward for a month or more.
I prefer scenario PvP over arena PvP. I like having objectives to fight over, things to accomplish other than just blowing the other guy up...heh, outside of blowing the other guy up while fighting over a particular objective.
I'm not a fan of monster farms. I feel that STO is way down the line from where I'd expect it to be. We hit up content in STO and slaughter stuff like we were killing rats on the outskirts of some town in some other game. I'd prefer we fought fewer foes and that the foes we fought were actually tougher. Have you ever done a solo run of SB24 and thought about your one ship there...how many ships you've blown up, how many Klingons you've just sent to Sto-vo-kor, and the like? Hell, hit up an ISA and how many Borg has that little group just obliterated?
I'm definitely not a fan of the magic wand healing in space. Nothing, imho, draws attention to space being little more than copypasta of some fantasy ground game than the magic wand healing in space. Healers? Space? Er...whut? I don't remember the Excelsior flying in to toss some magic wand heals at the Enterprise there. Don't remember any footage there from the Dominion War of certain ships flying around waving their magic wands. But there it is in STO. Huh?
I could go on and on...on and on. But in the end, posting any of that is going to draw a bunch of "Oh Hell noes, GTFO!" from folks that are perfectly happy with it the way it is or even want it more that way. There might be the one or two that say, "Well, I kind of dig this or that...but all of that, oh Hell noes, GTFO!"
It's along the lines of when I see folks asking for the game to be more alt-friendly. The first thing that tends to come to mind in seeing that is that folks are actually asking for the game to be more multiple-main-friendly which equates to alt-needy...and points to the game not having enough to do.
It's along the lines of when I see folks asking for things to be easier...I look around...it's a total WTF moment...and points to the game potentially having nothing to do. Same with the folks asking for more powercreep...just what are they asking for it for, eh?
I mean, I saw somebody say that Advanced queues already weren't doable and now Cryptic is making them harder. That's a total WTF moment.
It's along the lines of when I see folks talking about things taking too long. If everything was done, what would there be to do?
So yeah, as long as folks try to refrain from the doggie doo head stuff - I just can't see folks not "attacking" what others are saying when it could adversely affect the game they're trying to enjoy.
Meh, as it is...I started playing less and less and less...because there wasn't anything to do, because everything had been made easier and faster, etc, etc, etc. I didn't want to start rolling alts again just so I could pretend that I wasn't just doing the same stuff over again with a different toon. I might as well just have kept playing the first toon. Oh, awesome - this one toon has a few things different...that totally matters. To some it does, no doubt. Different folks and all that...
But yeah, I can't see folks not fighting for the direction they want the game to go or for changes they want...we're not just ordering lunch here. They're trying to take out the Milky Way and replace it with Snickers...and I'm allergic to nuts. No doggie doo head comments, sure, but it's on, baby...it's on!
I think the "understanding" portion of my request is pretty clear to many of you, when that request comes from me.
I'm not the "PR" guy, but I am the Forum Admin, so I do have the job to monitor the thread to make sure that TOS violations are handed accordingly.
Some of you have created some great questions asking for clarification, and I hope to get these addressed so we can come back in to provide some answers.
I wish I could give them to you right this second, I really do.
That is where the "patience" part comes in.
The only answer I can give you right now is that we have heard your response, and we have received an enormous amount of Feedback from the players.
So another push to only flying Tact- High dps ships, and forget you sci/engi who want to do something other than just big numbers...well you can play normal, leave the rest of the game to the "big kids" -.- seriously remove timers, stop nerfing, and let people work on builds other then E-pee enlarging numbers.
Comments
Killing NPCs should be challenging rather than tedious. I understand the need to buff NPC hull/shield mods to compensate for damage increase, but the buff is too extreme on advanced/elite and normal difficulty NPCs are far too weak. One key way to make NPCs more difficult to fight would be to increase their defense rating and add +All Damage Resistance Rating. Another way to improve difficulty would be to add abilities to NPCs while providing them with the code to use them appropriately.
I know for a fact it is possible for NPCs to use abilities intelligently because I've seen how magnificently implemented the Vaadwaur Ground NPCs are in the Delta Rising content. Fighting Vaadwaur Ground NPCs is fairly challenging at higher difficulties and they are fun to fight. In fact, I'm sure Kobali Prime would be a very popular map if the rewards weren't so limiting (7 marks and 90 dilithium for a 15 minute mission isn't worth it.)
Unfortunately this feedback is negative in tone, but I do hope it is helpful.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
glad you took the time to grab this intel.
Derrick - Fed Eng
I'd like to know that answer too, but I'm afraid it's not something they are telling us.
Cryptic is to blame for all the dissent you see here. Players are not just complaining for the sake of complaining: there's fair reasoning behind all the negativity. A change of tone from the community, for the better, needs to happen as a consequence of reasonable actions coming from Cryptic. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening unless Cryptic completely changes the direction they're going.
STO Screenshot Archive
There's your 'feedback'.
Since you do not listen to us anyway (or even bother to listen to the people who do your job on the test servers, using thier own time and effort to find bugs that you ignore and then go on to accuse the player base for 'exploiting').
That is all you deserve now - any goodwill towards you (from me at least) has now expired.
It'll take a lot more than this (one change, or a long list of changes) to make me reconsider playing this game - it's fun at the core gameplay XD I don't hate grind for existing, and feel no need to have the best-of-best stuff, or that I need something right now
And I remember working the exploration clusters for Marks of Valor + such, plus still fly the Kar'Fi I bought with Emblems, so I've been here for awhile as my sig would imply. That should say something lol
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
The Tribble patch notes in this cycle not a kind anniversary gift for STO at all. Once again, you should reconsider the dwindling populations in the queues when making balance changes.
Did it never occur to you that by increasing the difficulty of queues, you have discouraged less-skilled players from participating? And then because there are fewer less-skilled players in the queues, those that remained would be more skilled and artificially inflate the win percentages?
This is the slippery slope upward that you are turning STO into. This is how you eliminate the majority of a population from STO. This is not a healthy decision for the long-term success of the game; as an F2P game, STO should cater to the long tail of unskilled players- not the few who can beat Adv/Eli queues.
This is how you are moving the game in the wrong direction. Do not push this patch to Holodeck!
Tactical Team sucked, once upon a time. I got it buffed. Don't think for a minute that Cryptic ignores forum feedback.
So the only explanation to all of this is:
"some events players were completing too fast"
"some events were rewarding too many marks"
Seriously? Why is it that so long after the introduction of the reputation system (2+ years) you decide these are "bugs" that need fixing while other actual game breaking bugs go left unfixed?
It's like you're kicking us in the crotch and asking us afterwards to tell you if it was a good idea to do so and to describe the pain we feel. We can complain about it. But it doesn't change the fact you still kicked us and somewhere down the road you'll just kick us again.
Even long after DR was released, I have pumped my fair share of money and time into this game. I've read so many posts that I thought were from people who were just being dramatic or just wanted to complain for the sake of complaining. That being said, I've been starting to agree with the complaints. Cryptic decided to make many decisions that have ultimately alienated many players. We gave our feedback as to why we were not happy. It seems that Cryptic saw what was pushing people away, and thought, let's do more of that. Let's do exactly what is pissing people off the most, but slowly make it be on a grander scale. Yeah, that'll show them that we care about their feedback and want them to enjoy their experience, and you know, keep playing and giving us money. Well Cryptic, you've lost all of the money in my wallet that might have gone to you. I used to spend quite a bit. No more though. I'll still play, though not as often as I used to play (why should I, so they can keep making it harder and rewarding less?). But I vow not to reward middle fingers to the player base such as this.
For me, it's been a gradual wear and tear sort of thing. Hasn't been the omgherd, that's it, I'm out of here thing...it's just, along the lines of the meh in your sig, a case of growing meh. It's easier and easier not to bother doing things. It's easier and easier not even bothering to login.
Like the other day, I was grumbling about something. Somebody suggested I chill. So I went to do something else. I ran into another bug. That discussion went way over my head, so I went to do something else. I ran into another bug. That just wears on me.
I look back at those release notes I posted up there and it kind of reflects a meh of its own. The Breach and Storming come up often as examples in some of my "rants" about a lack of balance in rewards of content. I'd totally forgotten they added Delta Marks to them...but to me, that just shows the complete disconnect that appears from time to time with Cryptic.
Cause it's...Oh cool, now not only are Breach and Storming under-rewarding for what they already were; but now they're also under-rewarding for Delta Marks too! Wheeeeeeee! /facepalm
So while it's not a case that they're only just nerfing things left, right, and center - there are, imho, nifty things they are doing - some of the things they are doing just leave me wondering what their actual involvement in the game is...if at all.
Hell, for some of the stuff that came with Delta Rising I wondered if they even were involved in the development of it or if they just rubber stamped things that some third party did some contractual work for them. And DR wasn't the first time that's come up...where they talk about things doing one thing and it's nowhere near what it actually does. How can somebody be the developer of the game and have that happen unless it's a case of just giving a cursory glance at stuff that's been outsourced and rubber stamping it?
The getting into some of the "balancing" stuff with content...meh. Yeah, meh.
Lol, as long as you keep moving fast...don't slow down, don't look at it...imho, it's just a little meh here or there. If you stop for a moment, all that meh can catch up to you and turn into a massive pile of WTF.
It's not a case of thinking that Cryptic is out to get us. It's not a case of thinking that Cryptic are incompetent. But it's definitely difficult for me not to feel that there's not a disconnect there of some sort.
It's like deciding that Bug Hunt was both too easy and under-rewarding. I saw the thread about Delta Marks and I was kind of floored. I hate it because it gets into that "I've got a sandwich" territory...but even with barely playing, it's been a case of it raining Delta Marks all over the place. I've got over 5k of them there - that's not counting those that were used for stuff along the way: 500 for the Advanced Beam, 500 for the Gel Pack, 500 for the Neutronic Torp, nor 750 for the Core. That's not counting how many ever I fed there at the start into hourly boxes trying to get APCs. I'm only 23 Intel, 15 Pilot, 0 Commando with 4 sitting there...I can easily picture folks with well over 10k Delta Marks...cause it's just raining them left, right, and center. I even saw the reply about BH and Delta Marks in this thread, and I just...meh...
I haven't personally felt an issue of any difficulty in getting anything. No, I'm not a I need it now person...so that means I don't have a problem with something perhaps taking a week or longer to get. But I do have an issue with is that there's just not much to do - because so much of the stuff offers crappy rewards for the investment by comparison, that folks just aren't bothering with it. So there's nobody else joining up those queues to play stuff just to play it...is the feeling that I get. Same has happened over in PvP.
I just don't "feel" a balanced endgame exists on any level. Between the lack of balance for rewards in content based on time/difficulty/effort mixed in with all the bugs...
...yeah, if one stops to catch their breath, imho, it's easy for them to get overwhelmed.
Course, it's going to affect different folks differently - everybody's got their own thresholds.
And I've said it before to others, so maybe it is just a case of taking my own advice...if there isn't enough of a reason to log in, then just don't log in. Given that the 3-4 folks I used to see multiple times a day are all gone...well, yeah...meh.
So true - Maybe they will bring D Stahl back, doubt he would ever think about taking away spec points.
I can assure you the team is not implementing these changes to "kill the game" or your desire to play the PvE content.
We are working on the PvE Queues and will be updating you with more info as we can. In the interim we ask for your patience and understanding.
While the team continues to work, we will post more updates as they become available. In the meantime, please remember that the last thing we want to create is an argument between our players. Let's not make this thread an "us vs them" mentality.
Please let your fellow users post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at this in the same way you do.
Thanks everyone!
~CaptainSmirk
Really? Cause they're achieving the latter pretty succesfully for me.
-edit- I know this sounds sarcastic, but it's because I'm annoyed. I *want* to like this game, but recent changes and DR's meta in general are making it very difficult. Please understand this.
From what I've seen, this is one of the few threads where pretty much all of the users are on the same page. It's the dev team who seem to have a difference of opinion on what constitutes "fun".
Really the only 'update' we are hoping for is "oh TRIBBLE we wrote decreased when we meant to say increased".
Right now a single CCA run rock rewards 960 + 800 (marks) or 1760. I can run ten in an hour easily with my alt army if not more yielding me 17,600 an hour. With this proposed change that is reduced down to 15,600 if I don't get any optional but no failures (unlikely not to get optional on most). or about a 9% earning reduction. That is still far higher than any other active content especially considering the additional earnings from daily bonus boxes and waiting for the dil weekend to turn in the marks. The reduction does not go far enough actually unless I begin to fail it in a PuG regularly.
I do disagree with the idea that if more than three of my randomly selected teammates are baddies I fail leading to frustration as the balancing method for the rewards. Hopefully that does not happen very often.
A better idea might be to make the event take longer somehow other than a mandatory timer. Perhaps let the tholians provide a touch of healing for the CE, let the CE be immune until the tholians are destroyed perhaps, I dunno be creative.
And the Cure change, the only thing I can figure is that the only ones playing it regularly are premade groups. Leads to a self fulfilling prophecy type deal especially with no elite version for those who desire a challenge to play.
Agreed. I want crafting materials and spec points. I cannot stand the patrols and the crafting material options for someone who prefers to PuG are extremely limited depending upon what I'm after. I typically have a single option that is viable at best.
Where are you getting those figures from? CCA doesn't reward anywhere near that amount of marks.
I think he means the dil he'd get from converting the marks it rewards.
Ah, well that's kind of confusing considering we're discussing mark rewards and how that will affect people needing the marks more than the Dil exchange from them haha. Dil income is so irrelevant anyway considering the hard cap of 8K a day refining, 9K if you are a vet and have an upgraded fleet mine.
Without a full explanation from the developers, the recent string of nerfs feels very controversial. "Delta Rising" has introduced one set of nerfs after another. Many players, such as myself, are confused and worried about all of the recent changes. Players, not all, are suffering from buyer's remorse, anxiety, and fear. When a mess of changes occur in a drastic fashion, regardless about subject-matter, people will usually react in a negative manner.
Some Questions for Cryptic Only:
(1) What is the overall purpose of nerfing a mess of content? Is there a plan in place?
(2) What is the overall purpose of removing certain content? Are players just ignoring certain game maps?
(3) Are you going to remove or reduce the presence of Borg stfs?
(4) Are you transforming STO into a mobile device game?
(5) Are you going to reintroduce the Borg STFs in Season Ten?
I don't want to overreact. I am just very concerned about where these changes will lead.
Then what is the reason for increasing difficulty but lowering rewards? That is backwards logic. I know you are supposed to be the PR guy, but how about actually getting some information or having a dev come specifically explain the reasoning behind these changes. Not a response just saying that everything is all right.
IDK but reducing the rewards on older queue content and upping rewards for specific DR introduced queue content makes it appear that the Devs intentions IS to get players to use the DR content more (much like what happened with the increase in EXP rewards ONLY for the new DR introduced patrols.)
For me the ACTIONS speak louder than words - and the current slew of actions by the Cryptic STO Dev team seem to 'speak' fairly clearly and obviously as to the Dev team's intent. If that's not the case perhaps the STO Dev teams actions should be more in line with your words.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Yeah guys. Let all three people post their feedback without attacking them for not looking at it the same way as pretty much the entire playerbase. Smirks needs us to all shut up so these three people can have the floor.
Smirks, I am smirking because the time for patience and understanding went out the door when your team blatantly slapped the community in the face with this latest round of nerfs. Your payouts are too damn LOW! They are about as bad as getting ONE FLEET MARK per ONE dilithium and that is pretty terrible. You have been told, repeatedly, thoroughly, amply, and profusely what this community does and does not want, yet you persist with your arrogance thinking your team knows better than the consumers.
Get over yourselves, this game's content post LoR has sucked the dog.
The saddest part is how gorram trite you people are being about it. Yes. Trite. That is your team. In fact, the current content is so bad, you're going back and surgically removing and altering good content to hide how terrible the current content is. In what realm does turding up good content to bring it in TRIBBLE parameters of the current content an acceptable gameplan to decrease the sucking curve?
Patience, some of us can do. But understanding is another matter. You see, we cannot understand why Cryptic did this until someone tells us. Until then, we can only assume as to why. And that will not garner you, or Cryptic, any good will, because - as evidenced by this thread - people do not trust Cryptic's intentions. On the whole they are assumed to be profit-motivated at best. At worst, players feel like they are being forced to play what Cryptic wants them to play. And, news flash, people want to play a game how they want to play it. Shepherding players generates negative feelings and irritation. The fact of the matter is, and I cannot understate this point, Cryptic did not need to do this. The queues affected by this nerf are difficult as it is, and rarely played because they already reward too little for the effort. This is exactly the opposite of what needed to be done with these missions, and we cannot understand why this is being done. If you want understanding, make us understand. Do not tell us what, tell us why.
Just because it's not Cryptic's intention doesn't mean they need to keep pursuing this path. Okay it may not be your intention but despite having the opposite effect we see more of the same.
You've had my patience and understanding since open beta and it's got people like me nowhere especially in recent years so with all due respect I'll continue to sum up my view as briefly and politely as I can so I can't say I didn't warn you then let you get on with it.
Have you ever had that discussion with Trendy about where to get lunch? And even if you each really, really, really, really, really, really want something different - you're not going to push it cause you figure next time, right?
With STO, there are all sorts of folks that want different things...and they really, really, really...etc...want those different things. But unlike it being lunch and maybe getting something different next time, there really isn't that next time.
So change that up a bit, and say it was a discussion with Trendy about what would be in the vending machine for one of the slots. That as a result of that discussion, as long as you were working there that is what would be in that vending machine slot.
And that's getting closer to how some of the discussions might go with STO. And since it's kind of permanent...it's going to get kind of vehement...yeah?
Definitely when we start getting into the folks that decide to speak for others...implementing things that the players are asking for...well, players are asking for all sorts of things and sometimes they're downright contradictory. So even more folks will end up...discussing things...in a somewhat aggressive manner, eh?
Sure, we should try to avoid calling one another doggie doo heads; but uh...well...it can definitely get difficult not to point to something as something when one sees it as something. The person might not be a doggie doo head...but their idea might well look like a doggie doo idea. Lol, I feel like it's preschool there. It's difficult to avoid being inflammatory about some requests out there when for some they might just come off as the stupidest thing ever said, eh?
One could just leave their thoughts and be done with it...no need to reply to the thoughts of others; but there is a fear that might get listened to instead. Basically the game will go in certain directions and the player will be left in the lurch.
So it's rally the forces...go at it...last one not banned can offer the feedback!
I want balanced endgame content rewards. Something takes 10 minutes and has mobs that can kill you...should offer better rewards than something that takes 5 minutes and has mobs that can only kill you if your internet hiccups.
I want challenging endgame content. I want that 50-59 scales you up to 60 "Training" tier where folks can learn the basics of the instances, learn to work in teams, learn more about their ships and abilities, etc, etc, etc...with it having "Normal" level rewards. I want that level 60 "Normal" tier which actually kicks it up a notch from that "Training" tier but offers "Advanced" rewards. It's the "Normal" play, folks have an idea of the instance, working in teams, their ships/abilities, etc. I want "Advanced" to require folks that have stepped up their game some, folks that are more familiar with the instance, working in teams, their ships/abilities, have upgraded their gear some, etc, etc, etc. Basically for "Advanced" to mean something more than just not being "Super Easy" or the like. That "Advanced" would have better rewards than "Training" or "Normal" offer. I want "Elite" to be..."Elite"...something only those folks that have worked at it are capable of doing. Does that make me an "Elitist"...sure, as long as one considers I doubt that I'd ever be able to run that level. An actual "Advanced" would likely push me to my limits. But I think folks that have limits further out should have something for them as well, yeah? And yeah, because they're playing at that level they should get a better level of rewards.
I want tier gating on content. Just because something at a higher tier offers a better reward, doesn't mean that somebody should be able to leech the reward from that content. If they want to run the more difficult content for the better reward, then they should work at getting themselves into a position to be able to run that content, yeah? Course, I haven't seen a recommendation/solution yet for something like that which could not be gamed and offer no real solution, just a bandaid on the leaky faucet that might slow the drip.
I have no problem with different things taking various amounts of time. This allows me to set daily, weekly, monthly, and even beyond goals for myself. Stuff I can work on for a few days or stuff I can work toward for a month or more.
I prefer scenario PvP over arena PvP. I like having objectives to fight over, things to accomplish other than just blowing the other guy up...heh, outside of blowing the other guy up while fighting over a particular objective.
I'm not a fan of monster farms. I feel that STO is way down the line from where I'd expect it to be. We hit up content in STO and slaughter stuff like we were killing rats on the outskirts of some town in some other game. I'd prefer we fought fewer foes and that the foes we fought were actually tougher. Have you ever done a solo run of SB24 and thought about your one ship there...how many ships you've blown up, how many Klingons you've just sent to Sto-vo-kor, and the like? Hell, hit up an ISA and how many Borg has that little group just obliterated?
I'm definitely not a fan of the magic wand healing in space. Nothing, imho, draws attention to space being little more than copypasta of some fantasy ground game than the magic wand healing in space. Healers? Space? Er...whut? I don't remember the Excelsior flying in to toss some magic wand heals at the Enterprise there. Don't remember any footage there from the Dominion War of certain ships flying around waving their magic wands. But there it is in STO. Huh?
I could go on and on...on and on. But in the end, posting any of that is going to draw a bunch of "Oh Hell noes, GTFO!" from folks that are perfectly happy with it the way it is or even want it more that way. There might be the one or two that say, "Well, I kind of dig this or that...but all of that, oh Hell noes, GTFO!"
It's along the lines of when I see folks asking for the game to be more alt-friendly. The first thing that tends to come to mind in seeing that is that folks are actually asking for the game to be more multiple-main-friendly which equates to alt-needy...and points to the game not having enough to do.
It's along the lines of when I see folks asking for things to be easier...I look around...it's a total WTF moment...and points to the game potentially having nothing to do. Same with the folks asking for more powercreep...just what are they asking for it for, eh?
I mean, I saw somebody say that Advanced queues already weren't doable and now Cryptic is making them harder. That's a total WTF moment.
It's along the lines of when I see folks talking about things taking too long. If everything was done, what would there be to do?
So yeah, as long as folks try to refrain from the doggie doo head stuff - I just can't see folks not "attacking" what others are saying when it could adversely affect the game they're trying to enjoy.
Meh, as it is...I started playing less and less and less...because there wasn't anything to do, because everything had been made easier and faster, etc, etc, etc. I didn't want to start rolling alts again just so I could pretend that I wasn't just doing the same stuff over again with a different toon. I might as well just have kept playing the first toon. Oh, awesome - this one toon has a few things different...that totally matters. To some it does, no doubt. Different folks and all that...
But yeah, I can't see folks not fighting for the direction they want the game to go or for changes they want...we're not just ordering lunch here. They're trying to take out the Milky Way and replace it with Snickers...and I'm allergic to nuts. No doggie doo head comments, sure, but it's on, baby...it's on!
I'm not the "PR" guy, but I am the Forum Admin, so I do have the job to monitor the thread to make sure that TOS violations are handed accordingly.
Some of you have created some great questions asking for clarification, and I hope to get these addressed so we can come back in to provide some answers.
I wish I could give them to you right this second, I really do.
That is where the "patience" part comes in.
The only answer I can give you right now is that we have heard your response, and we have received an enormous amount of Feedback from the players.
~CaptainSmirk