A open world territory battle with no queues PVP system is needed.

bank4556
bank4556 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
edited January 2015 in PvP Gameplay
Games like Star Citizen and other space sim games are coming. I believe its time STO bring their PVP system into 2014 or at least 2011. lol There is no reason why STO pvp shouldn't be an open world battle. Just give PVPERS their own server with open maps for space and ground battles. Let each faction fight each other over territory,land and resources control. If STO decided to use a territory control map like a "battlestar galactica online" uses then I'm willing to bet this game would have a huge number of new members just for pvp. Adding a open world PVP system will also bring more meaning to each faction. After you finish the content of each character then the faction you belong to loses meaning but if you had to deal with enemy players attacking your starbase or your home planet then the faction you belong to has meaning again. I would love to play pvp more but the current state of STO pvp is not interesting enough. Flying around not knowing if some enemy player from another faction will attack you no matter what system you're in, is what makes MMO PVP so attractive to most. Give the KDF a reason to be proud to be KDF, Romulans a reason proud to be Romulans and Feds a reason be proud to be Feds. Open world faction battles will do just that.
Post edited by bank4556 on

Comments

  • snoge00f
    snoge00f Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I would love open PvP areas like those, but I think the general population would rage quit the game. lol.

    Mini would love it to death!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dius1981
    dius1981 Member Posts: 500
    edited November 2014
    Sounds fun... for that reason alone it wont ever happen.

    D,
    OMEGA ARMADA & House of Beautiful Orions
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Please keep the QQ to a minimum.
    >>>PUNISH THE FEDs<<<
    >>>Positive Feedback from a PvE HERO<<<
  • dontdrunkimshoot
    dontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    who's fighting who? and why? the truce killed any pvp zone that jives with the story what so ever
  • vipercg
    vipercg Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    would love this, but this will never happen... because cryptic is cryptic.
  • rossclansforce1
    rossclansforce1 Member Posts: 400 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Several good points. I agree that people would rage quit if they changed the current system. I also know people who have left this game for open map ones. Maybe they should have an open map option for PVE and PVP but keep the current setup in place as well.
    [img]>:)[/img]

    Click to Join armadafleet.org/
  • rmy1081
    rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    who's fighting who? and why? the truce killed any pvp zone that jives with the story what so ever

    party like it's 2409?
  • nandospc
    nandospc Member Posts: 1,256 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    who's fighting who? and why? the truce killed any pvp zone that jives with the story what so ever

    dont need a background story, just think a zone like that in terms of "open pvp simulation zone"
  • ursusmorologus
    ursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    They are going to make more single-player episodes instead
  • virusdancer
    virusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Cryptic looks at the current state of PvP - the various complaints. It's makes perfect sense for them to invest in something like this! :rolleyes:

    I'm left to wonder just how many Open PvP games folks have actually played that keep making suggestions like this...for every game that's passable there are countless games that are lolfailgasms.
  • oakland4life
    oakland4life Member Posts: 545 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    There are many threads over the years like this... but in the end with the current Lead Dev's of STO like Captain Geko... u'll will never see anything new for PvP unless the Lead STO Dev's quits or get replaced with Dev's that have a clear vision for both PvE and PvP without any excuses or bias.
  • wast33
    wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    ...deja vue...
  • virusdancer
    virusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Faction Population Balance in a Two Faction System. If there is an imbalance in the population, then an open world PVP model is not sustainable. One side will dominate and there will be no fighting.

    World Size. If the overall game universe is not of adequate size to support both large and skirmish warfare, you will have clustered combat which will only aggravate the initial issue of population imbalance.

    Instanced Territory Control Instead? Some might suggest that planets along the Neutral Zone be created to allow some form of PVP Domination/Assault/etc games. Perhaps with some form of reward being offered for the side in control to increase participation. Once again, you're looking at the population matter.

    Game Engine. Could you imagine what more than a 10v10 would look like in this game?

    Organization & Population. In the end, open world PVP requires more organized play than you're likely to see from a game where the premade population is small in comparison to the PUG population. STO is a very casual game - and - its PVP is no different.

    True Desire to PVP & Healthy PVP Mechanics. Uh, look at the queues and Ker'rat.

    One can go on and on and on and on about it...

    Yeah, it would be nifty if there were some form of Star Trek-branded EVE. This game is never going to be that. EVE today isn't the game it was when it first started out, but the underlying design for what it could be was there from the start. It was built that way from the ground up.

    One has to be reasonable in their expectations for what they will be able to get out of this game as far as PVP goes. It's not really my place to say what is reasonable or not - but uh - seriously, it shouldn't be a problem for anybody that's played any of the plethora of MMORPGs over the years that have had a heavy and sometimes healthy dose of PVP going for them. Even there - well - take a look at how many of those games simply are no longer around, eh? Meh...

    Take a look at what some of the other games have focused on instead, with regard to how their systems are at play - the games that have a similar basic premise as STO does. What those games have done to try to maintain a decent PVP gameplay experience.

    Wouldn't trying to get Cryptic to tweak things in that fashion...be more reasonable...than suggesting they basically create a new game when the PVP population of STO as it stands would guarantee its failure?

    They've got some fundamental things right - if they could address some of the fundamental flaws, then STO PVP could offer some exciting pew pew action...folks might start feeling satisfied instead of frustrated.

    Course, folks will still get the chuckle out of any "X killed me, it must be nerfed!" threads or folks going "No, no - maybe it is working 9001 times better than anything else, but it's working fine!"...so we'd all still get the good laugh with the forums. It might take on that lighter side that it's had in the past from time to time, instead of it tending to read like a bunch of grumpy old men sitting in the park watching their remaining years pass away and spending it grumbling at one another over some of the stupidest things.
  • zuigje010
    zuigje010 Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    As long PWE is Cryptic's Publisher, Cryptic can't really do much.
    I don't think an open world environment would work in STO seeing a zone can only have around 30 players and 50 to 75 on ground. Kerrat is all we will have for World PvP.
    Besides I doubt an open PvP environment would even save STO or make it even better,
    the same problems will still be present and just TRIBBLE off players more.

    PvP is totally unbalanced now since Delta Rising and if STO wants to continue for another 3 years atleast they need to set all plans on hold now (events, patches etc) and come with something that will save STO.
    But so long PWE is their Publisher I doubt anything will happen then a new patch with a new feature that will only cost you more farming/grinding and a lot of dilithium cost like the dreadful tech upgrading system which made a lot of players quit the game.

    I am slowly working on building a pc between 1500 / 3000 euros, getting a hotas x55 and Oculus Rift at the end of the year. I doubt I will play STO then, like many others I will play Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen when it comes out near the end of 2015.

    I stick around for the time being just because I have put in a lot of effort and time in this game since it whent f2p in 2012 but last 3 months I am hardly doing anything then refining the little bits of dill I have left, did the winterland event and i join Bug Hunt and Borg d/c elite since its the only new queues we got :( I really can't do anything else since I am so bored and so tired. :(
  • discloned
    discloned Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Open world PvP systems are sustainable, but require a level of commitment that is unsustainable in that case (no offense).

    What would work are PvP zones, and technically the system is already implemented because... well... a long time ago open PvP was the thing. It has been abandoned. That in itself is not a good position to be in.

    The system as it is was put into place with good reason.

    Anyway :)

    There is a system where you always find player action. That is in part for economic reason and in part for competitive reasons. This combination in itself is pretty good and thus its always player populated from both sides.

    So if we would extend that zone and not split it, which is important because when you split up layers it gets too diluted as you notice, for example in the PvP system, that would be a much better approach.

    So we have that PvE safe zone and a eco/pvp zone - and not just that one borg setup.

    Lets say you create three spawn zones, one for Federation, one for Klingon and one for romulan (thus preserving fleet integrity by teaming up KDF and FED Romulans). That means we have three factions which is - hands down - better for pvp.

    So you have these three spawnzones for three factions (expandable for more factions later) and multiple planets in the zone.

    When i am saying "planet" i envision an evnironment like the currently aviable. And you make Tac Cubes drop a borg token, for example. Then you add another planetary environment in the same zone that drops Nukara tokens, for example.

    Multiple environments with multiple factions where reputation (and loot) can be farmed in different areas. It has not to be tokens - it could be something else, the important thing is that players have different interests in different areas of the zone.

    And then you see if its worth improving on that. Don't divide, make it worthwhile, see that nobody is forced to do it and the players will to the rest. I'll work, you'll see. Like Ker'rat always worked. Expand on that, it is great. But serve variety (the only major drawback currently, the system hasn't changed since beta).

    PvP is worth it. PvP is fun. Don't throw that away. People WANT to fly their ships agains each other. They want to form battle groups to go on a deep mission in enemy territory. Well... at least some of us do. No AI will ever be a match for fighting between players.

    And if you really want to spice it up throw in some scripted randomly occurring events.

    Anybody remembers Dark Age of Camelot? No? Well there was a prize in the open PvP zones (far away from the core game zones) where, when won a faction would earn bonus experience to level faster. You crusades that resulted in. And it was fun. Wouldn't want to have missed a second of it.

    It works. Yes, it does, if done right. Its not easy, it takes a lot of changing and watching player reaction but it really makes for a great experience. And... uhm... depending on popularity it can require major hardware resources, btw.
  • deaftravis05
    deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    closest thing would be Ker'rat
  • tk79
    tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    What about addressing PvP balance first before trying to evolve it further.

    Doesn't matter if we have new open PvP zones, new game modes and whatever, if balance is whacked it won't change anything.
    U.S.S. Eastgate Photo Wall
    STO Screenshot Archive

  • discloned
    discloned Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Hmm... no. Don't get me wrong, balance is important, especially if you are fighting in teams, but... in an open PVP zone its nearly meaningless. There are no fixed teams. Maybe you and your team are up against a lone ship. Maybe an entire guild is practicing fleet maneuvers. Its not that important in that case. That being said, balance is a good thing, but its not neccesarily the deciding factor in open pvp - which is also where its charm lies. Weaker players can seek safety in numbers and the performance of a single opponent is negligible.
    closest thing would be Ker'rat
    Kinda a supersized ker'rat with multiple farming spots and additional rewards for the entire faction. Ker'rat is cool and it is populated. Always. But its getting really old. That is the right direction, let's improve on that.
  • tk79
    tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    discloned wrote: »
    Hmm... no. Don't get me wrong, balance is important, especially if you are fighting in teams, but... in an open PVP zone its nearly meaningless. There are no fixed teams. Maybe you and your team are up against a lone ship. Maybe an entire guild is practicing fleet maneuvers. Its not that important in that case. That being said, balance is a good thing, but its not neccesarily the deciding factor in open pvp - which is also where its charm lies. Weaker players can seek safety in numbers and the performance of a single opponent is negligible.

    You seem to be unaware of the current state of the game.

    Did you know that a single Neutronic Torp Spread is able to nearly wipe a full team of players? This is what I mean. Broken things. Like some Intel skills. Among many others. They break balance in its most basic form. There's no way any form or shape of PvP will work well if such broken mechanics are in place.
    U.S.S. Eastgate Photo Wall
    STO Screenshot Archive

  • nulonu
    nulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    tk79 wrote: »
    You seem to be unaware of the current state of the game.

    Did you know that a single Neutronic Torp Spread is able to nearly wipe a full team of players? This is what I mean. Broken things. Like some Intel skills. Among many others. They break balance in its most basic form. There's no way any form or shape of PvP will work well if such broken mechanics are in place.

    Yea sure if you have no kinetic resistance. I've run into plenty who tank right through. My own eng can tank it well. My escort gets wiped by them but meh don't care lol. It's not designed to take damage for long. Torpedoes have been a joke in this game forever with plenty of threads whining about how gimped they are even after neutronics came. Neutronics do what quantums should always have been able to do.

    Now, the Intel junk I can agree with. The spec trees should just be disabled in pvp. Might bring the interest back in general, especially for ground pvp.
  • drkfrontiers
    drkfrontiers Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
    edited January 2015
  • wast33
    wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
    edited January 2015

    i salute u and am wishing one day ur work receives the attention it deserves!
  • drkfrontiers
    drkfrontiers Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Thanks guys. I'm hoping Cryptic were listening at least.
  • captainwesson
    captainwesson Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015

    Omg I remember this! Pretty sure it was the first tourney I participated in. Was a lot of fun, and I, too, am sorry this didn't work out like it should have. Great work on this, drk. Tears are acceptable at this point.
  • riccardo171
    riccardo171 Member Posts: 1,802 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    nulonu wrote: »
    Yea sure if you have no kinetic resistance. I've run into plenty who tank right through. My own eng can tank it well. My escort gets wiped by them but meh don't care lol. It's not designed to take damage for long. Torpedoes have been a joke in this game forever with plenty of threads whining about how gimped they are even after neutronics came. Neutronics do what quantums should always have been able to do.

    Now, the Intel junk I can agree with. The spec trees should just be disabled in pvp. Might bring the interest back in general, especially for ground pvp.

    There's a big difference going from "joke" to "broken". Dude I stacked BFI, Graviton Shield and Aux2Damp (at 125 aux) and Neutronic still nearly killed me. Near the 300 additional kinetic damage resistance rating when it hit, something you don't even achieve slotting five (bold, italic, underlined and red to highlight it) enhanced Monotanium alloys.

    And there was Neutronium alloy in there to be counted as well. Neutronic needs a nerf, and it is getting a nerf.
  • crusty8mac
    crusty8mac Member Posts: 1,370 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Dammit!!! You made Dark cry! Shame on you folks!!
    __________________________________
    STO Forum member since before February 2010.
    STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
    I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
  • etherealplanes
    etherealplanes Member Posts: 414
    edited January 2015
    Well until the fbp noobs stop I would say Neutronics are fair play. I also love how people consider surgical strikes 3 a justification for using Neut's. A whole 10 second buff of OP bull**** fire as opposed to one volley that needs to be be tanked. The 6 other torps I carry don't do **** except provide a small compliment of dmg to the Neut's. Yes I agree they are overpowered but so is the FBP that comes your way from using energy weapons. When the fbp noobs stop then my standard warbird "clean" energy weapons build will make a comeback.
  • discloned
    discloned Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Guys... there are many... non-standart... things in the game and not since the last expansion. Yes, i know it became worse. We could argue all day here and in fact we do in various treads. Yes, a look at balance would be a good idea. That aside i absolutely second that the PvP ZONES need a major overhaul. Of course... we are in the minority here. We do, when it comes down to it, not make up a rather small portion of the mostly pve oriented playerbase. Understandably such a thing like a PvP expansion would not float with the majority of the population, that is why its rather neglected. We can only hope its done by a one step at a time approach, if ever.

    Starfleet Command had, at its time, with the Dynaverse something really interesting going on. And also a hard core playerbase that played the game well beyond its time (i think there are still people playing it).

    So there are working concepts when it comes to PvP, especially open world PvP. It can be great fun, but that requires effort. If done right i will be attractive to a segment of players that is currently mostly omitted and thus the population is relatively small. It could draw new people in, just saying. There is potential. I don't expect anybody to scramble to put such contend into this game, but a constant tickle would be nice. It would make the game better i think by appealing to more types of players.

    More players mean more revenue and especially in PvP people tend to invest some capital. I think Cryptic would be advised well to have some active development focus on this. Not much. Just a little.

    I don't think the "its all BS i am leaving" approach will get us anywhere soon.