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Trek & long lifespans

steamwrightsteamwright Member Posts: 2,820
edited January 2015 in Ten Forward
I have to wonder: would a Trek civilization eventually be dominated (even if beneficently so) by those species with long life spans, such as Vulcans (possibly species who live even longer? Certainly the Admiralty could be dominated by beings who could serve for decades if not centuries. The same may be true for the Senate. After a time, species with shorter life spans, such as humans, might be seen as unseasoned, even immature, since they've no time to accumulate the vast amounts of knowledge, and hopefully wisdom, that the elder species have accrued.
Post edited by steamwright on

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  • otisnobleotisnoble Member Posts: 1,290 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I have to wonder: would a Trek civilization eventually be dominated (even if beneficently so) by those species with long life spans, such as Vulcans (possibly species who live even longer? Certainly the Admiralty could be dominated by beings who could serve for decades if not centuries. The same may be true for the Senate. After a time, species with shorter life spans, such as humans, might be seen as unseasoned, even immature, since they've no time to accumulate the vast amounts of knowledge, and hopefully wisdom, that the elder species have accrued.

    And yet humans have a thirst for the unknown and an inbred need for freedom that is the living blood of the Federation to seek out new worlds an meet new people.
    Fleet Admiral Stephen
  • norobladnoroblad Member Posts: 2,624 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I have to wonder: would a Trek civilization eventually be dominated (even if beneficently so) by those species with long life spans, such as Vulcans (possibly species who live even longer? Certainly the Admiralty could be dominated by beings who could serve for decades if not centuries. The same may be true for the Senate. After a time, species with shorter life spans, such as humans, might be seen as unseasoned, even immature, since they've no time to accumulate the vast amounts of knowledge, and hopefully wisdom, that the elder species have accrued.

    hard to say. Vulcans are sort of an exception but in D&D for example, the long life span of some races is balanced by a more casual pace -- the 500 year old dwarf might never have set foot outside his home until reaching 200 years, for example, and thus his 200 extra years of "experience" might not mean much at all. Vulcans to some extent have issues as well ... tons of knowledge but not a lot of real world experiences and handicapped by logic almost as much as served by it, as demonstrated countless times. Vulcans remind me of the terminator scene where he knows how to hotwire a car in 10 seconds flat but not to look for the key that is is right there --- real world experience vs book learning 101, that sort of thing is.
  • baelogventurebaelogventure Member Posts: 1,002 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    It could be possible.

    But, since Humans, especially compared to Vulcans, "burn brighter and faster" as it were, are more likely to be moving toward achievements quicker, doubly so since they're Humans.

    Look at how fast Humans as a species in Trek went from Cochrane meeting the first Vulcans to now.

    So, I doubt it would happen.
  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Put's a new spin on the term "Old Boys Club" --. "Old Vulcans Club" ?

    Those conniving Vulcans, they are the Illuminati of Star Trek !
    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
  • fatman592fatman592 Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I wish they would have painted the Vulcans in a different light during Enterprise. If they could have made the Vulcans simply complacent with their tech like the Minbari of B5, it would be reasonable to conclude that humans would indeed become the driving force of the Federation.

    More interesting would be the core races bringing some essential strength to Federation. Sort of like Voltron: Andorians bring tactical expertise, Vulcans bring guiding philosophy and science expertise, Tellarites could have brought ship building skills or something.

    But that's kind of behind the scenes stuff. To the OP's point, I think things like academia would likely be dominated by long lived species. But an egalitarian society would probably have more term limits and other measures aimed at fairness put in place. If not, humans are really the cannon fodder of the Federation as they have much higher breeding rates than other races.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I doubt it. Eventually medical technologies would improve to such a point that I feel it might be a bit moot.

    Even by TNG, it was clear that a human could possibly live to be well over 100 years old, and not even have anyone bat an eye at it.

    But there are two other reasons why it wouldn't happen:

    1. The ideals of the Federation simply wouldn't allow it (though that could make for an interesting alternate universe tale).

    2. Here in the real world it wouldn't happen simply because of how they'd never allow humans to be totally overshadowed by other species.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • steamwrightsteamwright Member Posts: 2,820
    edited January 2015
    I fully acknowledged the TNG canon possibility that humans could live into their 130's at least. (Emphasizing "could". McCoy himself indicated in his speech that it was a bit unusual) That is still far short of a Vulcan's life span, and I suspect by TNG, Vulcan's might be living to 250 or more. (Sarek was 203, dying of disease).

    And although I used Vulcans as an example, they are not the only long-lived ones. Denobulans live long lives. Symbiotic Trill live many lifetimes. A year or two for host adjustment, and they could be right back at the top, should the new combination so desire (since each host's life defines how it will play out). The Axanar live 400 years. El-Aurians live several hundred years. Species-mother Horta can live 50,000 years. (assuming the non-canonical book viewpoint that at least some Horta join Starfleet).
  • mthomps016mthomps016 Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I'd almost say to take a look at how David Weber (who has life extension as a very common trope), treats it in his Honor Harrington books. Basically, smart societies push for changing out who's in office every few years. Also second careers are encouraged.

    With respect to Vulcans, I would not be surprised that societal pressures in particular, mean they tend to be in advisory and research roles. Also, patterns like Tuvok where he left Starfleet for 50 years, and then return, would be not uncommon, and almost encouraged.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    mthomps016 wrote: »
    I'd almost say to take a look at how David Weber (who has life extension as a very common trope), treats it in his Honor Harrington books. Basically, smart societies push for changing out who's in office every few years. Also second careers are encouraged.
    Interesting problem there, actually, because Manticore is the UK in space. It takes forever to get any actual change in the House of Lords.

    Another good one is Liz Moon's Familias Regnant. The societal issues of nobles and rich people becoming functionally immortal (and thus not dying or going senile and letting the new generation take over) are a major theme.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • lilchibiclarililchibiclari Member Posts: 1,193 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    One thing that would help would be to have mandatory term limits not only on elective office but on appointed government positions as well--nobody could hold any given office for more than say, twelve years total in their lifetime (whether consecutive or non-consecutive).
  • steamwrightsteamwright Member Posts: 2,820
    edited January 2015
    mthomps016 wrote: »
    I'd almost say to take a look at how David Weber (who has life extension as a very common trope), treats it in his Honor Harrington books. Basically, smart societies push for changing out who's in office every few years. Also second careers are encouraged.

    Hmm...that "second careers" bit has me realizing that "renaissance men" might be the way to go. Skilled in politics, diplomacy, art, architecture, engineering, music, etc. Much like Thomas Jefferson.
  • mthomps016mthomps016 Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Hmm...that "second careers" bit has me realizing that "renaissance men" might be the way to go. Skilled in politics, diplomacy, art, architecture, engineering, music, etc. Much like Thomas Jefferson.

    Actually that is even better. It then makes sense about how often we have cultured sides to some characters. Many of those interests become second careers.

    Of course, there would still be some mega-experts in fields that stay with one thing for a long time.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    mthomps016 wrote: »
    Actually that is even better. It then makes sense about how often we have cultured sides to some characters. Many of those interests become second careers.

    Of course, there would still be some mega-experts in fields that stay with one thing for a long time.
    Spock was like that. He was apparently adept enough in multiple fields to be, not necessarily an expert, but more knowledgeable than most.

    In Picard's case he was also a diplomat and archaeologist.

    then we have Soong... Who literally lived his chosen discipline.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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  • lilchibiclarililchibiclari Member Posts: 1,193 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Oh, it's not necessarily beneficial to society as a whole for entrenched hierarchies to dominate--indeed, if they become too inflexible, then the society loses its ability to adapt to unexpected events. However, it is certainly in the interest of powerful individuals to entrench themselves in order to expand and sustain their own power, and thus the rest of us need mechanisms for non-violently dislodging them when they start becoming harmful to us (e.g. recall elections).
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    vulcans ....dominating all humans?!!

    why those greenblooded inhuman....:D
  • qjuniorqjunior Member Posts: 2,023 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Vulcans aren't a good example for long life, considering that humans can live well past a hundred years by TNG, and Sarek being 200 years old and that being noted as exceptional.

    I'm trying to think of a Federation species that lives longer, but none come to mind. I believe that a species that lives for hundreds or thousands of years wouldn't be part of the Federation, they might be friends, but their perspective would differ too much.

    Maybe a little like the First Ones from B5, although they are an extreme example, them being immortal and billions of years old. Oh, and you have to overlook the whole genocide thingy and planet destroying. :o
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