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Requesting explanation of shield resistance
jarvisandalfred
Member Posts: 1,549 Bug Hunter
Shield damage resistance is a highly confusing stat for me right now.
I'm familiar with the sto wiki's section on it, however, it doesn't explain what I'm seeing.
In an attempt to figure stuff out, I've run a few solo SB234's to parse out some data. My only shield heals were the guardian trait, Miracle Worker, and Science Team (since none of those grant shield resists). I ran my last few tests without a W->S core and without a plasmonic leach, so power levels shouldn't have changed (in fact, shield power should have been static at 78.66 power).
With the nukara shield, and that shield power, my shield damage resist should have been 0.2982%, give or take a few decimals.
Despite that, I'm getting results that fluctuate between 18 and 38% resists according the the combat log. Unless I'm misreading lines such as :
15:01:06:00:30:46.3::Centaur Class Frigate,C[5 Space_Federation_Frigate],,*,Vel'Gon 2,P[183887@10343987 Vel'Gon 2@jarvisandalfred],Phaser Array,Pn.Cedjls,Shield,,-322.524,-225.229
15:01:06:00:31:17.8::Starbase 234,C[1 Starbase_Enemy_Fed_T2],,*,Vel'Gon 2,P[183887@10343987 Vel'Gon 2@jarvisandalfred],Starbase Phaser Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.8uhkpy,Shield,,-448.511,-279.451
15:01:06:00:29:33.4:: Prometheus Class Escort,C[2 Space_Federation_Battleship_Prometheus],,*,Vel'Gon 2,P[183887@10343987 Vel'Gon 2@jarvisandalfred],Phaser Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Fmp7os1,Shield,,-778.748,-620.092
The first line shows my shields apparently at 30.1% resists, the second at 37.6%, and the third at 20.1%, unless I'm not reading this right.
Anyone care to shed some light on this for me?
I'm familiar with the sto wiki's section on it, however, it doesn't explain what I'm seeing.
In an attempt to figure stuff out, I've run a few solo SB234's to parse out some data. My only shield heals were the guardian trait, Miracle Worker, and Science Team (since none of those grant shield resists). I ran my last few tests without a W->S core and without a plasmonic leach, so power levels shouldn't have changed (in fact, shield power should have been static at 78.66 power).
With the nukara shield, and that shield power, my shield damage resist should have been 0.2982%, give or take a few decimals.
Despite that, I'm getting results that fluctuate between 18 and 38% resists according the the combat log. Unless I'm misreading lines such as :
15:01:06:00:30:46.3::Centaur Class Frigate,C[5 Space_Federation_Frigate],,*,Vel'Gon 2,P[183887@10343987 Vel'Gon 2@jarvisandalfred],Phaser Array,Pn.Cedjls,Shield,,-322.524,-225.229
15:01:06:00:31:17.8::Starbase 234,C[1 Starbase_Enemy_Fed_T2],,*,Vel'Gon 2,P[183887@10343987 Vel'Gon 2@jarvisandalfred],Starbase Phaser Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.8uhkpy,Shield,,-448.511,-279.451
15:01:06:00:29:33.4:: Prometheus Class Escort,C[2 Space_Federation_Battleship_Prometheus],,*,Vel'Gon 2,P[183887@10343987 Vel'Gon 2@jarvisandalfred],Phaser Beam Array - Fire at Will II,Pn.Fmp7os1,Shield,,-778.748,-620.092
The first line shows my shields apparently at 30.1% resists, the second at 37.6%, and the third at 20.1%, unless I'm not reading this right.
Anyone care to shed some light on this for me?
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
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SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
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Build questions? Look here!
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Hull Damage, Base Damage
That Hull Damage Prevented By Shields reflects your Hull Damage Resistance. It's a calculated number (can get goofy with negative Hull Damage Resistance, showing that the shields prevented more damage than was done by the base damage because it reflects the boost to the hull damage from the debuffs).
It's tough without the Hull Damage lines...do you have the Hull lines handy by any chance for those hits? Well, can try to take a look.
Doing the Hull Damage Prevented By Shields / Shield Damage to get the amount only works when the Hull Damage Resistance is 0.
The formula renimalt dropped out in a post was...
1 - (Shield Damage / (Hull Damage Prevented By Shields / (1 - Hull Damage Resistance))) = Shield Damage Resistance
So if we were to feed that first example you had (cumbersome showing all work follows, lol):
1 - (322.524 / (225.229 / (1 - Hull Damage Resistance))) = 0.2982
1 - 0.2982 = 322.524 / (225.229 / (1 - Hull Damage Resistance))
0.7018 = 322.524 / (225.229 / (1 - Hull Damage Resistance))
0.7018 * (225.229 / (1 - Hull Damage Resistance)) = 322.524
225.229 / (1 - Hull Damage Resistance) = 322.524 / 0.7018
225.229 / (1 - Hull Damage Resistance) = 459.567
225.229 = 459.567 * (1 - Hull Damage Resistance)
225.229 / 459.567 = 1 - Hull Damage Resistance
0.49 = 1 - Hull Damage Resistance
0.49 + Hull Damage Resistance = 1
Hull Damage Resistance = 1 - 0.49
Hull Damage Resistance = 0.51 = 51%
A quick look at the second example you had:
1 - (448.511 / (279.451 / (1 - HDR))) = 0.2982
HDR = 56.27%
A quick look at the third example you had:
1 - (778.748 / (620.092 / (1 - HDR))) = 0.2982
HDR = 44.12%
Is it possible your Hull Damage Resistance could have been 51%, 56.27%, and 44.12% at the time of those hits?
Hrmm, kind of curious to take that a step further...
1st Shot: 10.47, 510.63
2nd Shot: 15.53, 710.10
3rd Shot: 34.45, 1232.94
...were those the Hull lines?
Here's renim's post: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=11647901&postcount=12
edit#1: Just noticed the actual order of the hits you had there was 3, 1, 2 and not 1, 2, 3.
"Is it possible your Hull Damage Resistance could have been 51%, 56.27%, and 44.12% at the time of those hits?"
44.12% to 51% to 56.27%...would that have been possible on your build?
edit#2: Just a rough example (fictional numbers) of how it can end up looking with a damage resistance debuff. Say we had a hit that 5000 damage against a NPC. NPC's have 0% Hull Damage Resistance and 14% Shield Damage Reduction with Standard (non-Resilient) Shields.
5000 Base Damage
5000 * 0.9 = 4500 Base Damage to Shields
5000 * 0.1 = 500 Base Damage to Hull
4500 * 0.86 = 3870 Reduced Damage to Shields
500 * 1 = 500 "Resisted" Damage to Hull
The line would look like...
3870, 4500
500, 5000
Now let us work in a debuff, Enhanced Armor Penetration is easy. It's a -50 Damage Resistance Rating Debuff (yeah, /cough) which against an original 0% Hull Damage Resistance results in a HDR of -48.84% (or an increase in Hull Damage of 48.84%).
5000 Base Damage
5000 * 0.9 = 4500 Base Damage to Shields
5000 * 0.1 = 500 Base Damage to Hull
4500 * 0.86 = 3870 Reduced Damage to Shields
500 * 1.4884 = 744.2 "Resisted" Damage to Hull
The line would look like...
3870, 6697.8
744.2, 5000
...yeah, the log would try to tell us that the shields prevented more damage to the hull than was even done by the original attack while that 744.2 was still done to the hull.
The Hull Damage Prevented By Shields figure...it's just a calculated figure.
15:01:06:00:30:46.3...Shield,,-322.524,-225.229
...Phaser,,11.8542,510.153
15:01:06:00:31:17.8...-448.511,-279.451
Phaser,,716.081,2400.96
Given that context is telling me that the shot before, I had no shields (there's only the line for phaser damage) I'm assuming this shot just stripped whatever I'd just regenerated and went mostly to hull again.
15:01:06:00:29:33.4...Shield,,-778.748,-620.092
Phaser,,32.6364,1231.79
I'd totally believe it, that's normal for the ship in question.
So, to calculate things out...
Unless I'm mistaken, hull resist should be calculated off the Phaser line as follows:
hull damage divided by (base damage of attack times amount that bleed through)
Which for the first shot ,would be 11.8542/(510.153*.05)=.464731
Putting that into the next formula:
1 - (Shield Damage / (Hull Damage Prevented By Shields / (1 - Hull Damage Resistance))) = Shield Damage Resistance
1 - (322.524 / (225.299 / (1-.464731)))
Would come out to be 1-(322.524/(225.299/(1-.4647)))=.233
Which doesn't seem right to me. Am I miscalculating something?
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Hrmm, I didn't even consider a facing collapse. I normally only dork around in some of the simpler things (simpler, I guess, because somebody explained it to me and I did it a bunch - not because it was obvious to me or anything like that). That would have changed things for the #2 (third) hit. There's a more complex formula out there that I don't know...don't know it at all.
510.153 Base
510.153 * 0.9 = 459.1377 Damage to Shields
510.153 * 0.05 = 25.50765 Damage to Hull
510.153 * 0.05 = 25.50765 Damage to the Magical Ether (it goes to a special place)
11.8542 Hull Damage
11.8542 / 25.50765 = 0.46473116888462872902835031843388; 46.74% of the damage done.
1 - 0.46473116888462872902835031843388 = 0.53526883111537127097164968156612; 53.53% Hull Damage Resistance
1 - (322.524 / (225.229 / (1 - 0.5353))) = Shield Damage Reduction
1 - (322.524 / (225.229 / 0.4647)) = Shield Damage Reduction
1 - (322.524 / 484.676) = Shield Damage Reduction
1 - (0.6654) = Shield Damage Reduction
Shield Damage Reduction = 0.3346; 33.46%
0.3346 = 1 - ((1 - 0.1) * (1 - (0.28 * ShieldPower)))
0.3346 + ((1 - 0.1) * (1 - (0.28 * ShieldPower))) = 1
((1 - 0.1) * (1 - (0.28 * ShieldPower))) = 1 - 0.3346
((1 - 0.1) * (1 - (0.28 * ShieldPower))) = 0.6654
0.9 * (1 - (0.28 * ShieldPower)) = 0.6654
(1 - (0.28 * ShieldPower)) = 0.6654 / 0.9
1 - (0.28 * ShieldPower) = 0.7393
1 = 0.7393 + (0.28 * ShieldPower)
1 - 0.7393 = 0.28 * ShieldPower
0.2607 = 0.28 * ShieldPower
0.2607 / 0.28 = ShieldPower
Shield Power = 0.9311; 93.11
93.11 - 78.66 = ~+14.45 more than expected.
You didn't happen to have a Green Warp Core Engineer equipped did you? The +PWR variant? Or is the Character an Engineer with EPS Manifold Efficiency with a White WCE +PWR DOFF?
Or if it's none of that and we're sure of the ShieldPower, hrmm...
1 - ((1 - 0.1) * (1 - ((0.28 * 78.66/100))) * (1 - X)) = 0.3346
1 = 0.3346 + ((1 - 0.1) * (1 - ((0.28 * 78.66/100))) * (1 - X))
1 - 0.3346 = ((1 - 0.1) * (1 - ((0.28 * 78.66/100))) * (1 - X))
0.6654 = 0.9 * 0.7797 * (1 - X)
0.6654 / 0.9 = 0.7797 * (1 - X)
0.7393 = 0.7797 * (1 - X)
0.7393 / 0.7797 = 1 - X
0.9481 = 1 - X
0.9481 + X = 1
X = 1 - 0.9481
X = 0.0519; 5.19%
Did you have the Nanoprobe Field Generator trait slotted and could it have had a single stack? Did I totally botch some rounding in there and maybe it's stacks of Pattern Recognition?
It's one of the things that renimalt, hilbert/mancom, or one of the actual math guys could best answer what might be going on there or at least speculate better...
No pattern recognition, no nanoprobe field generation, no WCE's, and I wasn't using any EPTx abilities anyway...
Only thing I can think of that might have been funky was Nukara Aux->Defense... shouldn't affect shield resist, but who knows...
I'll double-check everything, remove the nukara trait (and active hull hardening, so that I can keep my hull resist at known values), and try again tonight.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
But, but, but...you're one of the other guys!
Aha, that could have been the 5% that I found there...didn't even think about the Starship Mastery and the passives there.
Also, it's been an eclipse vs phaser damage very time, so bonus resist from tet shouldn't have been there.
The only things affecting shield resist should have been shield power (which I calculated and monitored at 73.66 power) and the shields (the parses are named after the shield used).
The hull resist was a static 33.3763162%, again, calculated and verified (a skill of 117.5 to threat control, 6 points each in hull/armor plating, a mastered eclipse, and the damage accolade).
I started on this because I was attempting to answer this post in more details, but I suppose I should have just come here first.
Anyway, I don't yet have stuff quite figured out, so I think I'll let you look at the parses (given the above info) and see what you can make of them.
Delta Shield
Elite Fleet Capx2 ResB Adapt Shield (vs phaser, the ResB shouldn't affect anything)
Nukara Shield
Thanks a ton for all the help so far!
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Copy to tribble, do a full respec and avoid any potentially interfering skills and unequip everything not required for the actual test.
Makes isolating variables much easier for myself personally.