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Explain to me DBB on slow Cruisers

weelerdweelerd Member Posts: 22 Arc User
edited January 2015 in Federation Discussion
There are numerous players who fly large and slow Federation cruisers equipped with dual beam banks. The low inertia and wide turning angles of particular Federation cruisers, like the Odyssey for example, is so commonly known that explaining these drawbacks does not seem worthwhile. Low inertia and wide turning angles of Federation cruisers couple with the relatively narrow firing angle of dual beam banks appears at first to be counter intuitive to ship design. Given such a design would have on combat performance, I have to wonder why players who choose to fly their ships this way choose to do so.
Post edited by weelerd on

Comments

  • edited January 2015
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  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    All forward DBB builds? I rarely do those. If I do, it's on an Escort or 5 fwd weapon ship. You'd be surprised what something like a Xindi Escort can do with 5 DBBs firing at BFAW3 with APO3 or APB3 and fed with EPTW3.

    On a traditional 8 slot cruiser with 4 fwd / 4 aft setup, I never do that. Going forward heavy negates most of the 4 aft slots. 1 omnibeam, 1 KCB at the rear, with maybe 2 turrets not getting the benefit of any tactical attack buffs. It's a very large waste. And Cruisers don't have the TAC station count to be throwing in Beam and Cannon abilities all around unless Attack Patterns are being forsaken completely.

    The other issue is how a front-heavy build is flown. They're typically flown where you need to maintain that forward arc on the targets. In many cases this negates movement and nudges you towards turreting, resulting in minimal to zero bonus defense (and more TRIBBLE hitting you). Or if you DO want to maintain speed, bonus defense, then you're resorting to attack runs... Buff up, fly towards the target, fire everything, then break off, circle around for another run. It works, but that's time your forward weapons are not pummeling the target.

    Compared to a traditional beamboat using beam arrays where you can maintain good movement, turning, while still presenting broadsides to the target. You maintain better speed, bonus defense, less TRIBBLE hitting you. It's much easier to fly, much safer, while still giving a lot of firepower.
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  • coffeemikecoffeemike Member Posts: 942 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    From testing, I never use DBB unless the ship turns 25+ as you can't focus the cruiser that quickly to target and fire. So far the Avenger Class is the only one I can do that with... assisted by a Tackyokinetic Converter, the Hydrodynamics Compensator, a Fleet RCS console, and a Fleet Neutronium armor with TURN.

    I run the Vesta Class and even I use the standard beam arrays on it since I use BFAW a lot with torp spread.
  • hyperionx09hyperionx09 Member Posts: 1,709 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    A single DBB might be included if only to allow you to deliver a bit more of an initial punch alongside any Torpedoes you have before turning to broadside.

    At least, that's what I do, so that charging in before broadsiding would have a little more punch on approach. As well, I have to sometimes aim forward to bring my Boff abilities to bear, so the DBB picks up a bit of the slack.

    Suboptimal probably, but it's worked thus far, and since I use an RCS console to speed between front and side, isn't much of a problem.
  • kostamojenxkostamojenx Member Posts: 251 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Park and shoot.

    Use Evasive Manuevers to reposition.
  • zztophat1zztophat1 Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    There is one case where I can see doing this and I do it in this case.

    Nukara Appropriated Munitions.

    The Hyper-Dual Refracting Tetryon Beam Bank with Refracting Assault is a glorious murderbeam light show when using fire at will against a crowd of enemies. Because 1 of your rear slots is filled with a mine launcher you only have to to carry 1 turret, and have the other slots filled with a kinetic cutting beam and an omni array.

    As for turning with said loadout, I either go to 1/4th speed and slowly creep forward or go in reverse. Granted, in my case I am using the benthan cruiser, which is far more maneuverable than many other cruisers, it's also carrying a Universal - Hydrodynamics Compensator and Tachyokinetic Converter. That being said, the arc of the DBB is a lot wider than it seems and even when I have tried them on more cumbersome ships hitting a target was not an issue.
  • jkwrangler2010jkwrangler2010 Member Posts: 263 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    For PvP they might not work that well. But for PvE with large stationary targets, DBB with beam overload and attack pattern beta can do some heavy damage.
  • cmdrscarletcmdrscarlet Member Posts: 5,137 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Park and shoot.

    Use Evasive Manuevers to reposition.

    That is ... not good advice *if* you want high DPS.
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  • brangel13brangel13 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Back in the day of PvP, I seen some pretty wicked Odyssey players who would tractor beam klinks, pin them down and hit them with everything (especially SCI's running in cruisers, subnuke). Likewise, I seen Klink Kar'Fi carriers do the same thing. Pretty nasty!

    If you know what your doing to accommodate for speed, console, trait, specs, you can run DBB's on cruisers.
  • kostamojenxkostamojenx Member Posts: 251 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    That is ... not good advice *if* you want high DPS.
    Wasn't about high dps, its about how to use a Dual Beam Array build on a cruiser.
  • jornadojornado Member Posts: 918 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    That is ... not good advice *if* you want high DPS.

    Since when is "park and shoot" not working? Park at 3k away from a stationary and let'er rip. Especially with a DBB cruiser - keeps everything in arc while you intensify the forward firepower.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
  • ridddickxxxridddickxxx Member Posts: 479 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    For 5/3 antiproton setup it is worth it, with 2 omni in the back and kkb, but even for pve you need good turn rate.
    Works really well on my scimitar, but when i tried copy the layout on elachi sheshar, the ship is to slow for that
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  • karlbarbkarlbarb Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I've run a forward facing *cannon* build on an Atrox carrier (slowest turn in the game), and it worked reasonably well. I've even come up point blank on someone and tractored him in place while I hammered with rapid fire and hyper-torps.

    Basically, in PVE, pretty much anything is possible if you understand AI behaviour. If your target is busy somewhere else or is even slower than you (I'm looking at you, Borg Cube), then you can park and fire, no problem. If your target is fast and up close (notably if you are tanking), DBB will never woirk. So basically, know your target and you'll know what works.

    P.S: If you have a lrcmdr sci slot, you can equip Gravity Well 1, which really helps in the keeping targets in your arc issue ;)

    I would never ever ever recommend a cruiser with a DBB build in PVP, mind you.
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