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All this "chance" nonsense...

kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
Chance when you hit someone in a fight, chance for an assignment to be successful, CHANCE to upgrade an item...why can't we just have straightforward success when we put the effort in this game?

In the same way we level and get specializing skill tokens once we've reached 60, why not give us an upgrade token, similar to the reputation system...you might need so many to upgrade a ship or a weapon, but at least it's a guarantee, because this chance business, I think, is what's driving people away.
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    sf911sf911 Member Posts: 284 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    To be honest, the only situation where leaving things to an "X% probably" truly bothers me is in the crafting system.

    When spending so many resources crafting/upgrading, one should at least be able to simply chose the desired modifiers IMO.
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    qunlar2020qunlar2020 Member Posts: 281 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Games of chance are through out the history of civilization. I do not for see it leaving any time soon. I admire any one who takes a stance for themselves not participating in one.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I was Klingon before Klingon was cool.
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    erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Upgrade and R&D should be a choice of mod instead of luck. Especially considering the amount of resources involved, there is nothing worst than spending thousands of dil, countless r&d mats/ec only to have a wonderful [pvpsnare] as your upgrade.
    The rarity increase/initial rank should still be luck based.


    They removed the luck based STF reward because it sucked. And they added much worse with the r&d and upgrade system. Cryptic =/= logic.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    immudzenimmudzen Member Posts: 145 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I have to admit the gambling aspect to this game is really turning me off. It seems that they decided to "fix" an old system and it ends up as a gambling system. I like the game but geeze this is burning me out really quickly.

    I DESPISE gambling. There is something about it that just does not make any sense to me. It does not attract me in any way and this whole change thing to get what I want is really frustrating. They could fix a lot of this pretty easily. I don't mind working towards something but I want to get what I work towards not some random thing and roll to try again.
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    tarastheslayertarastheslayer Member Posts: 1,541 Bug Hunter
    edited December 2014
    My personal peeve in this regard right now is the upgrade system, chance of quality upgrade, chance of a good mod, chance of a bad mod, invisible crit chances, honestly it's enough to make you want to go kick yourself and that's without the costs.
    Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
    I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
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    neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    No one ever upgraded their PC's RAM and lucked out on getting a random 8core processor?? Cuz you're doing it wrong if you didn't :D
    GwaoHAD.png
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    immudzenimmudzen Member Posts: 145 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    No one ever upgraded their PC's RAM and lucked out on getting a random 8core processor?? Cuz you're doing it wrong if you didn't :D

    I have seen people do an upgrade and have a critical failure though and have a part not work although usually you just send it back and have it replaced at no cost.

    I have even seen some people that should NEVER be opening up a pc manage to crack a motherboard and sheer the pins off a cpu for a different kind of critical failure.

    However in the end you get exactly what you are trying to get. There is no real randomness to it and I am getting tired of the randomness in this. Why not just allow us to choose our mods. Upgrade to the next rarity directly and for a specific cost etc.Also stop making this such an extreme grind. There is no real reason the grind needs to be so bad to do upgrades.
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    rsoblivionrsoblivion Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    After 400 Beam Arrays and only a single CrtDx3 I got bored...
    Chris Robert's on SC:
    "You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
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    leceterleceter Member Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    It's rng or just straight up high cost.

    People LOVE gambling, remember that.

    I personally know people, some of them with really good jobs, who's live got ruined by gambling, even with strict legislation on it.
    There is at least a weakness in the psychological nature of human kind in gambling, spending irrationally much/fast on it. And I think, Craptic is using this weakness to the full extend for its profits. A shame, they cant run a game without turning it into a virtual casino.
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    kerygankerygan Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    kayajay wrote: »
    Chance when you hit someone in a fight, chance for an assignment to be successful, CHANCE to upgrade an item...why can't we just have straightforward success when we put the effort in this game?

    In the same way we level and get specializing skill tokens once we've reached 60, why not give us an upgrade token, similar to the reputation system...you might need so many to upgrade a ship or a weapon, but at least it's a guarantee, because this chance business, I think, is what's driving people away.

    Cause LIFE is chance , or call it fate ,destiny, doom ,fatality , karma , w/e you want. Don't you think STO is a easy enough game?
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    hyefatherhyefather Member Posts: 1,286 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    kayajay wrote: »
    Chance when you hit someone in a fight, chance for an assignment to be successful, CHANCE to upgrade an item...why can't we just have straightforward success when we put the effort in this game?

    In the same way we level and get specializing skill tokens once we've reached 60, why not give us an upgrade token, similar to the reputation system...you might need so many to upgrade a ship or a weapon, but at least it's a guarantee, because this chance business, I think, is what's driving people away.


    Because chance makes money.
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    immudzenimmudzen Member Posts: 145 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    kerygan wrote: »
    Cause LIFE is chance , or call it fate ,destiny, doom ,fatality , karma , w/e you want. Don't you think STO is a easy enough game?

    I fundamentally disagree with this. Life is not chance. The VAST majority of what happens to you is not chance it is the work you did that go to that point. Many people walk by opportunities every day because they are not prepared for them. Most of the people that make it rich are not based on chance, they are based on a LOT of VERY hard work that paid off.

    I am not saying there is no chance in your life it is just that usually chance has a minimal impact. When we design and manufacture new drugs there is little chance involved when it comes right done to it. You an say someone is lucky they discovered the molecule but they where also working on it very hard and knew what they where looking for.
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    paxfederaticapaxfederatica Member Posts: 1,496 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    kayajay wrote: »
    Chance when you hit someone in a fight, chance for an assignment to be successful, CHANCE to upgrade an item...why can't we just have straightforward success when we put the effort in this game?

    In the same way we level and get specializing skill tokens once we've reached 60, why not give us an upgrade token, similar to the reputation system...you might need so many to upgrade a ship or a weapon, but at least it's a guarantee, because this chance business, I think, is what's driving people away.

    RPGs have been chance-based for decades, long before they made the leap from physical tabletop games to PCs, much less went MMO. What do you think all those funky-looking multi-sided dice are for? :P
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    rsoblivionrsoblivion Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    A chance element is fine, like what loot to get etcetera, but the Chance roll on the Ultra Rare is just painful. That should be selectable at least. Getting the gear is already overly costly as it is, but to make 1 in 6 of the items you buy get the UR mod you want then it's just insane. Those other 5 weapons become very costly paper weights, most of the time you won't get your money back on them either.

    I don't want to have to gamble for every damn thing. Ironically it's the opposite of Trek lore, unless the Ferengi's took over ;)
    Chris Robert's on SC:
    "You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
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    immudzenimmudzen Member Posts: 145 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    What I want to see is weapons to have slots like the kits do now. So a very rare would have 3 slots, elite 4 and epic 5 etc and we could put anything we want in the slots.

    So you would make a very rare item, upgrade it to epic, upgrade it to mk xiv and then put whatever mods you want in it. So go craft 4 CrtD and put them in if you want or anything else. We are crafting, chance should really not be part of it.
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    jjdezjjdez Member Posts: 570 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Let's not forget the reason why we can't pick the mods we want when crafting: the devs couldn't figure it out. If you don't believe me, it's in a P1 Podcast a few months back.
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    szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,724 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Welcome to the asian business model.
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    senselockesenselocke Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    immudzen wrote: »
    What I want to see is weapons to have slots like the kits do now. So a very rare would have 3 slots, elite 4 and epic 5 etc and we could put anything we want in the slots.

    So you would make a very rare item, upgrade it to epic, upgrade it to mk xiv and then put whatever mods you want in it. So go craft 4 CrtD and put them in if you want or anything else. We are crafting, chance should really not be part of it.

    That's an insanely appealing idea, truthfully. It's something I'd actually get tingles reading about if it were added to the game, even with restrictions like a cost to remove mods, or mods being permanent.

    You should make a separate post on this in suggestions, it's a fantastic idea IMO.
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    kerygankerygan Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    immudzen wrote: »
    I fundamentally disagree with this. Life is not chance. The VAST majority of what happens to you is not chance it is the work you did that go to that point. Many people walk by opportunities every day because they are not prepared for them. Most of the people that make it rich are not based on chance, they are based on a LOT of VERY hard work that paid off.

    I am not saying there is no chance in your life it is just that usually chance has a minimal impact. When we design and manufacture new drugs there is little chance involved when it comes right done to it. You an say someone is lucky they discovered the molecule but they where also working on it very hard and knew what they where looking for.

    chance has a huge impact on our life , not anything goes as we planned , and not everything is easy , i agree with you , we TRY to make our lifes better , and work for it , but that dosen't mean it will be , or that it will be as we imagine .

    And the example with the drug , is irrelevent , they did tests untill that drug is in fact what they wanted , but life , is life , not a drug , a game is allsow some kind of life (for some XD) , and not everythig works as planned , we test everything everyday

    Still this is just a game , and it should be hard , to make you play it ... people are used with the old STO , where you could max everything in 3 months? or even less ... and get bored , and ask for new content ... and new content is hard to immagine , and even harder to make it in practice ... think like that , the devs need 3 months to think at something ok? whats is use if you get bored in 3 months ?

    In any game there is a progression of the caracter , and there are games when you can max all in 5-6 years , so consider STO a good game.
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    ginobaldelli823ginobaldelli823 Member Posts: 325 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    kayajay wrote: »
    Chance when you hit someone in a fight, chance for an assignment to be successful, CHANCE to upgrade an item...why can't we just have straightforward success when we put the effort in this game?

    In the same way we level and get specializing skill tokens once we've reached 60, why not give us an upgrade token, similar to the reputation system...you might need so many to upgrade a ship or a weapon, but at least it's a guarantee, because this chance business, I think, is what's driving people away.

    There is a chance they might read this post.
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    senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    No one ever upgraded their PC's RAM and lucked out on getting a random 8core processor?? Cuz you're doing it wrong if you didn't :D

    Well, as an experienced overclocker, every time I build a new computer or upgrade my CPU, the overall performance of my system is completely a game of chance. :)

    Some people can easily push their Core i5-2500k's to 5GHz on air with minimum power settings. My CPU on the other hand was one of the unlucky ones that can't get past 4.2 GHz and liquid cooling without becoming unstable and requiring dangerous core voltage levels.
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    woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    immudzen wrote: »
    I fundamentally disagree with this. Life is not chance. The VAST majority of what happens to you is not chance it is the work you did that go to that point. Many people walk by opportunities every day because they are not prepared for them. Most of the people that make it rich are not based on chance, they are based on a LOT of VERY hard work that paid off.

    I am not saying there is no chance in your life it is just that usually chance has a minimal impact. When we design and manufacture new drugs there is little chance involved when it comes right done to it. You an say someone is lucky they discovered the molecule but they where also working on it very hard and knew what they where looking for.

    While true, that work works, luck can bypass it. Life is based on luck. Luckily proteins formed. Chance is the fundamental of life: There are chances which combination of genes you get. Good ones, or something that will be fatal? Something that will let you grow normally, or something that will cripple you. Does your immune system work or does it go against itself. Chances have a greater impact on life one might (and want to) imagine.

    Chance is, you go out of the house tomorrow and a brick strikes you down. If you went a second later or earlier, it wouldnt happen.

    However, that natural chance is unrelated to STO and gaming, as those are manufactured games and thus have manufactured chance. So at least something like Crafting should work "what you want is what you get" and not "maybe you are lucky".
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    thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,985 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    It's a very Human thing, the urge to get one over on everyone else.

    In fact, that's how I would classify Earth instead of "Mostly Harmless."

    Humans are much more Ferengi than they would like to admit.

    The other "human thing" is that they only respond to abuse when correcting their actions.

    So appealing to their "good sides" will have no effect unless the other devs or a strongly personal dev thinks it's "cool" and pushes for the change.

    Forum posts should be worded accordingly.

    Instead of trying to demonstrate why something is bad, try to show that it's opposite is "Cool."
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    ikonn#1068 ikonn Member Posts: 1,450 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I, for one, am quite satisfied with chance when it comes to things like loot drops and Doffing. When it comes to things like gear upgrades, I expect to get what I pay for... not a chance that I get what I pay for (i.e. certain mods for upgrading gear). It is for that reason, I refuse to use the Upgrade system even though my gear will remain at Mk XII because of it.

    Lockboxes... I don't mind so much having a chance to get some of the shinies, but I think the ships should have been put in the C-store instead of lockboxes. Had the ships been in the C-store, I'd happily fork over money to get some of them. Of course, Cryptic/PWE will keep the ships in lockboxes as a marketing ploy to get people to continually buy them just for the chance to get the ship.
    -AoP- Warrior's Blood (KDF Armada) / -AoP- Qu' raD qulbo'Degh / -AoP- Project Phoenix
    Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
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    immudzenimmudzen Member Posts: 145 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I am just not a very good human. I just don't understand this urge to gamble or to get one over on someone else.

    Why should I care if someone else gets something also? Why does it impact me in any way?

    I also dispute the chance thing. How proteins interact, how your immune system works is not chance. At a high level it looks like chance, when you study it in depth you realize it is not chance, it is just very complex and we don't understand it very well yet.
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