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Why have both food processors and a galley?
steamwright
Member Posts: 2,820
Why have both a set of food processors and a galley onboard starships? Particularly the TOS galley, though every series (except TNG?) has had something. In DS9 it was restaurants (not shipbound, but there's Sisko's in New Orleans, where we see Ben cleaning potatoes at one point). I think I know the answer, but I'd like to see other responses before I try to fully answer that.
I will say there are certain scenarios in Trek canon that merit both. Archer's Enterprise had a food replicator in its infancy. Its limits (Tripp mentions it was capable of 6 flavors of ice cream), suggest that a galley would be needed to provide for what the replicator lacked. Voyager had to be cautious with its power (supposedly) so replicator fare was rationed, and setting up a galley for Neelix was necessary.
One note: remember these are "replicators" and not "synthesizers", the latter of which we're moving towards in today's society.
I will say there are certain scenarios in Trek canon that merit both. Archer's Enterprise had a food replicator in its infancy. Its limits (Tripp mentions it was capable of 6 flavors of ice cream), suggest that a galley would be needed to provide for what the replicator lacked. Voyager had to be cautious with its power (supposedly) so replicator fare was rationed, and setting up a galley for Neelix was necessary.
One note: remember these are "replicators" and not "synthesizers", the latter of which we're moving towards in today's society.
Post edited by steamwright on
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powdered eggs
or
fresh eggs
replicators is like powdered eggs they look like eggs supposed to be eggs but sure dont taste like eggs sure they fill your belly but common man?! they taste bad
fresh eggs need i say anymore thats what is served in a galley is fresh foods
Same reason Joseph Sisko runs a Cajun restaurant in New Orleans. There's a social value to eating out with other people instead of staying in. Also, replicators are frequently cited as only making an imperfect copy of what you ordered, and some folks are willing to go to extra trouble for quality.
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for a station like deep space 9, that has thousands of people at a time with a minimum running crew of at least 300 people, quarks can only serve so many, the klingon restaurant can only serve so many, the jumja stand can only serve so many as well as the replimat. sometimes you cant get to these places and a conveniently place replicator is better then nothing at all after each shift.
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I don't remember if the Ent-D even had a dining hall, but they used replicators, which apparently were a refinement of the old food processors (for the food processors, you had to stick your meal card in with the program for your food, which was apparently assembled from stored materials or there would have been nothing for the tribbles to get into; replicators use a refinement of the transporter technology and stored patterns).
Neelix's galley was needed aboard Voyager not only because of the morale issue, but because (when the writers remembered) energy for the replicators was rationed, and cooking real food saved replicator usage.
IMO, it's the other way around - replicators, being based on transporter technology, make a perfect copy every time. To some, that's the problem. How many times can you eat the exact same cheeseburger, the exact same chocolate sundae, to the point that one can memorize the positions of the pickles or nuts, even if the original (that was dematerialized to make the template) was prepared by a master chef? Home or restaurant-cooked food is "hand-crafted", with all the little variations that implies, rather than identical mass-produced duplicates.
TOS era food slots were, also IMO and based on what I've read in the novels and other soft canon, pretty much what we'd call "3D printers" now (and in fact, that's one of the applications for that tech that's being avidly researched). Textured soy protein, laid down layer by layer, in your choice of 27 delicious, er, tolerable flavors!
Actually that's the exact reason suggested for replicated food not tasting "real" in the science book Life Signs: The Biology of Star Trek.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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-Kirk in Charlie X had talked to the chef onboard the original Constitution Class
-Picard on the Enterprise-E in Insurrection asked that the chef skip soup for the Evora delegation
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Some of occasional close-up shots we saw of food in TOS... rather tend to bear this out. I could certainly believe those various coloured lumps came out of a 3D printer.
I've always assumed they had some supplies of real food aboard the ship, if only for diplomatic purposes.
And, of course, there's the question of having a working backup system. Suppose the replicators are knocked out, by power failure, cyber-warfare, Wesley Crusher improving their efficiency 500% or some other unspeakable disaster? You need old-fashioned backup systems that aren't vulnerable to these kinds of problems. (Though Wesley could probably TRIBBLE up pots and pans if he tried hard enough.)
I can imagine a 'cafeteria' type dining hall aboard ship. For those who want a REAL cheeseburger.
Have you ever had to suffer through Neelix's "even better than coffee" substitute? Yeah. I'll take my replicated coffee any day.
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Also the raw materials used to replicate this food needs the right ingredants on a 5 year mission some of those you will run out of spoiling the recipe
Along the way your ship will resupply its food stocks with alien food stuff's
a galley only makes sense
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There are also apparently some compounds (or possibly stable transuranic elements) that can't be reproduced even by replicators, although I find it more plausible that latinum's replication is forbidden by treaty (since it can be sent by transporters). I've never encountered a specific reference to beaming dilithium anywhere, however, and if it were amenable to transportation, one would think using a transporter with the correct filters would be far easier and cheaper than using actual living beings to mine it.
As far as I understand it, jonsills is correct. My guess would be that the deuterium is used both as fuel for fusion reactors and as the building material for replicators to draw upon.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
There was a Star Trek novel that dealt with counterfeit Latinum created through some new technology. The only way to tell it apart from Latinum is using a highly advanced piece of laboratory equipment. If Latinum replication was just bound by treaty, then there would be quite a few desperate Ferengi that would replicate Latinum. Therefore, using current replicator technology, Latinum is unable to be replicated which makes it so valuable.
As far as transporters go, they have always been limited by the writers. I have come to the same conclusion that Sheldon Cooper has about transportation. It completely destroys your original self and an identical version of you forms at another location. The problem is what happens to the Soul or whatever makes us us. So if I step on the transporter pad does that mean that a soulless clone of me has replaced me or does my soul get attached to the newly constructed body?
The 'soul', as you call it, is probably duplicated as well. The problem is that no sane person wants to die in order to allow an exact copy of him to continue where he left off.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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In order to duplicate the soul means that we have to confirm that the soul exists. If we are able to transfer or duplicate the soul, then immortality would exist since it is just a matter of discarding your old body and replacing it with a new model.
Maybe this explains why STO is in such a messed up state. The soul is not being duplicated or is being duplicated too much just like when people make a copy of a copy of a copy of a document. So our characters have no souls or their souls have degraded so much that committing genocide on numerous races is nothing serious in their minds.
No. Replicated items in TNG and beyond have replication errors which can be detected with detail scans and by the palate in the case of food. There were mnot exact copied of the original. And in the case of food, it wasn't "organic" food. It was nutritionally optimized for the person ordering it unles you tell it differently.
Recall Concilor Troi ordering chocolate from the replicator because where depressed. She had to arguing with the replicator because she wanted "real" chocolate and not the usual artificial stuff.
AS to why, this is my theory The replicators in the TNG era used replication patterns. There patten file sizes are probably huge. To save computer storage space, the patterns are compressed with a lossy type of compression. In modern terms, is a type of compress were you can throw out non-important bits of information. You can reduce a file in size smaller than if you used a lossless from of compression.
One possible way they did it is the way that a holographic picture works. You take a holographic picture by using a reference laser beam and a beam which illuminations the scene. The resulting light is captured on a photographic negative. You display the scene by passing a laser through the developed photo negative. The neat thing about the holographic picture is that you can remove part of the information and still be able to retrieve a lot of the data stored in the hologram. For example, you could cut out 1/4 of the developed negative, pass a laser though it and you will still see the 3-d image although not a full resolution.
My apologies for being unclear. I meant that deuterium is required as an input material (as an energy source) in addition to needing raw elements (oxygen, carbon, nitrogen, etc.) as matter feedstock. So for example, to produce sugar, you would need deuterium to power the fusion reactor, and then hydrogen, carbon, and oxygen as ingredients to produce the sugar itself.
Speaking of deuterium, i always found it stupid in the "Demon" episode of Voyager that they had to get deuterium from the Silver Blood. Deuterium is available at concentrations of several parts per million in almost any hydrogen deposit--any dense-enough nebula, or a small gas planet, or any planet or moon with water-ice or a water ocean, would have orders of magnitude more deuterium than Voyager could possibly carry. Deuterium is literally the third-most common substance in the universe after (regular) hydrogen and helium. The writers should have made it something more exotic--why not dilithium, which has been the old standby for "rare and vital to starship power"? It would have allowed for the same problems and conflict as the episode already had--Voyager has power generation issues and the Silver Blood would possess the substance that Voyager needs.
I think that it nonsense that Latinum repllication is forbidden by treaty. Far too unscrupulous being in the universe to make that work.
I think that the reason that certain substances are not replicatable is to due replication errors in the process. As I mentioned up in the thread, there are many instances where replicated items are detected by detailed scan show the replication errors. So it seems to be inherent in the process or technology used for it. And the reason for non-relpicatable items is because they need perfect replication. Error would make them not the substances or inpure versions of them. The substances may need a perfect crystalline matrix for a mineral or metal or for organic substances a certain molecular structure which is the only stable variation but fragile. Any variation of the structure will unravel any molecules close to it leading to a chain reaction.
And as to why you can transport unreplicatable substances, it's probably because of the theorized of teleportation I've readable over the years. Best explanation is that the target is unravels into a stream and reassembled at the destination. Much like the Stargate stargates work.
Perhaps at a molecular level, latinum is too unstable to replicate fully. I have always been under the impression that replicated looks like, feels like, but is very bland in taste and it is nothing in comparison to a prepared version of it. I bet there are a galleys throughout the ship, but on a production stand point, an enclave with some futuristic panels on it makes a much cheaper alternative. I always kind of thought Ten Forward having a kitchen behind the replicator alcoves to give the crew a variety. There was certain MREs and in-the-field meals that I loved. (Possibly due to other reasons such as being in the field for certain amounts of extended periods).
Take transport for example: we still walk, ride bicycles, and take trains, despite there being cars. People still go on cruises despite there being aircraft. Why? Because cars did not replace walking so much as replace walking in certain circumstances. Likewise, aircraft didn't replace ships so much as replace ships in certain circumstances. Whether those circumstances are most of the time, some of the time, or rarely isn't so important as new technology invariably becoming established and boring, and thus its "newness" or novelty no longer plays a factor in assessing its desirability to using it in the circumstance.
If we look at food production now, we see the same circumstance-specific use of technology. We still eat fresh food when it's in season despite tin cans and frozen food being available and more 'technologically advanced'. Indeed, we still prize home-made food by being prepared to pay a premium for say, good home-made preserves over mass produced variants. We still go to boutique stores that sell "handmade candies" despite there being vending machines with mass produced candy bars in them.
So let's say that replicators were invented tomorrow. I think we would see a surge of them being made available, early adopters ripping out their kitchens and turning them into replicator shrines (think, built-in "Entertainment Niches"), futurists proclaiming the death of the kitchen and cooking... followed by the replicator becoming old news, then eventually "just another commodity", and then the resurgence of home cooking in certain circumstances.
Makes me wonder if the same thing happened with microwaves. Come to think of it, I've still got a microwave cookbook somewhere that had recipes for "roast" microwave chicken, and the benefit of baking cakes in them... yeech.
It was the galley on the Ent-A to which I referred. Understanding that it is the same class of ship as Kirk's original, it would be reasonable to assume there was also a galley on the original 1701. I do remember the dining areas with the diskettes in the food processors/replicators from the TOS series. Especially all the weird fruit pieces on their plates. We used to nickname the room the "automat" which old timers would probably understand.
Nice catches. I'd forgotten those two points.
I like the perfection argument that was raise: that replicated food replicates identically each time, causing a built up reaction over time.
My take on the galley is this: There may be situations where dietary needs cannot be easily resolved by replicator. Kurn wasn't thrilled with his replicated "dead bird" meat in TNG. Klingons prefer fresh food. There was that whole 52 flavors of gagh shipped to DS9 for Martok's party. And it might not be just preference, but necessity. We've seen at least one other TNG species that must have fresh food, meat specifically. There may be other needs: medical, religious, social. And who knows what may be needed in first contact and other alien negotiations.
If there is a difference, it is discernable only to the "me" that entered. (Mostly in that he ceases to exist. :P) The "me" that exited doesn't know that something's wrong, nor does anyone else in the universe; which is why there's no way of knowing for sure if the continuity you're referring to is merely created by the exactness of the duplication process or not.
Let's put it this way: I have a whole pile of reasoning as to why a "God" can't exist. (For example, the impossibility of being created prior to the multiverse, which is necessitated by the belief that he created the multiverse.) But if I suddenly became aware that he did exist, wouldn't I be careful not to incur his wrath?
The same thing works here. Scientifically, I can't prove that something is lost (even from my own perspective) because my duplicate will not be aware of it. (Just like "God" wouldn't be capable of proving beyond ANY doubt that he existed before the multiverse, though he could certainly brainwash me into believing otherwise.) However, on the off chance that something is indeed lost, that something being something as important to me as my consciousness (which is replaced by an identical duplicate, like everything else), I wouldn't want - and don't want - to take any chances with it. (Unless, maybe, my life depended on it. A chance at keeping something is better than a guaranteed loss, right?
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.