Help me fine tune my Aux Cannon Vesta please :)

Comments

• soll50 Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  December 2014 edited December 2014

  Does TBR + Graga work well with most of your firepower towards the front ?
  In my sci partgen build on Scryer I've specifically placed a torp in the rear to use TS3 against the targets being dragged behind me with TBG.
  
  Besides the obvious like upgrading the tac consoles you might want to look at the rommy impulse engine and Nukara deflector / shield.
  Rommy engine for the bonus to attack patterns and nukara deflector+shield for the flat 2,5% damage increase.
  Unless you prefer the particle gen damage, but then you should take a look at Solanae or Counter-command deflector. In this build I think I'd prefer CC deflector.
  
  And last: if you need the extra turnrate, you could replace hydrodynamic compensator for the Tachyonetic convertor. A little extra crit and crit dam never hurt anyone.... eeh

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• soll50 Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  December 2014 edited December 2014

  Should have read all the way to the bottom
  
  You ran into the same problem with Graga Mal TBR and front arc weapons as I did.
  
  I've had some fun with feedback pulse, but it kinda requires some +threat consoles for group content. For solo content you don't need that of course.

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• ashtarprime Member Posts: 44 Arc User

  December 2014 edited December 2014

  I always like to see another aux-cannon vesta pilot .
  
  My build is somewhat similar. http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=ashtarprimevesta_72684 (everything else is in "notes"). Maybe looking at it will give some ideas (probably not). Looking at yours has given me some! .
  
  A few thoughts:
  
  Honestly, its like you are reading my mind. I have the same exact same reaction to the graga mal/tbr deal. I've also avoided any rarity upgrades on the borg 2pc because I want to explore another combination. I like the QFFC for the exact same reasons (although I do swap it out if I know I'm going to be in a mission where I won't use it). And GAWD SO MANY TPS to upgrade the rarity on those cannons .
  
  For tweaking:
  -Definitely go for the superior Romulan operatives.
  -At least for me, the omni phaser array out dpses the heavy bio turret. This makes no sense, really, given I almost always have CSV going, but there it is. I originally included it because I personally like subsystem targeting, but it hits weirdly hard.
  -Upgrade the mk on those tac consoles before the rarity on the aux cannons. Way, way, way, way cheaper and faster, and its a real boost.
  
  Future upgrades:
  Plasmonic Leach?
  Helmsman Trait?
  Tachyokinetic Converter Console?
  
  Larger Questions:
  How does aux overcapping work, exactly? I assume that is what the EPtA is there for.
  
  I've thought about dumping the heavy bioturret and the hydro console. The weapon sucks and for me at least, I don't need the hydroconsole. Is that phaser boost worth an aft weapons slot and a console slot?
  
  What is your thinking behind dropping the KCB and the assimilated console?

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• duneytron2000 Member Posts: 29 Arc User

  December 2014 edited December 2014

  I'll have to try the rom + nukara 2pc set up and see how my survivability is. I think I'd like to try a pure part gens build at some point, but I'd probably do that on the Scryer instead of the Vesta anyway.
  
  Definitely still conflicted about what to do with that Lt. Com science power. Getting rid of Graga Mal would let me maybe use a cannon doff, or maybe something else? The TBRs do still do a respectable amount of my total damage, but it's hard to calculate lost damage in the forward arc. I try to only use them when CSV is down, or against targets that I'm reasonably sure it will just straight up kill. Obviously it's great against Tac cubes or Voth citadels or whatever, but .. I don't know.

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• ashtarprime Member Posts: 44 Arc User

  December 2014 edited December 2014

  You can use that TBR pull also if you are facing a sizable mob, then just change targets to whoever is in front of you and/or isn't getting flung around. But I agree that it works best against cubes, gates, planet killers and so on (also, annoying pets). Probably if your an all-star pilot you can still get it to work well regardless, but it is difficult.
  
  (Also, assuming you have enough cxp in diplomacy, getting a naussican boff is also a good idea).

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• duneytron2000 Member Posts: 29 Arc User

  December 2014 edited December 2014

  ashtarprime wrote: »

  I always like to see another aux-cannon vesta pilot .
  
  My build is somewhat similar. http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=ashtarprimevesta_72684 (everything else is in "notes"). Maybe looking at it will give some ideas (probably not). Looking at yours has given me some! .
  
  A few thoughts:
  
  Honestly, its like you are reading my mind. I have the same exact same reaction to the graga mal/tbr deal. I've also avoided any rarity upgrades on the borg 2pc because I want to explore another combination. I like the QFFC for the exact same reasons (although I do swap it out if I know I'm going to be in a mission where I won't use it). And GAWD SO MANY TPS to upgrade the rarity on those cannons .
  
  For tweaking:
  -Definitely go for the superior Romulan operatives.
  -At least for me, the omni phaser array out dpses the heavy bio turret. This makes no sense, really, given I almost always have CSV going, but there it is. I originally included it because I personally like subsystem targeting, but it hits weirdly hard.
  -Upgrade the mk on those tac consoles before the rarity on the aux cannons. Way, way, way, way cheaper and faster, and its a real boost.
  
  Future upgrades:
  Plasmonic Leach?
  Helmsman Trait?
  Tachyokinetic Converter Console?
  
  Larger Questions:
  How does aux overcapping work, exactly? I assume that is what the EPtA is there for.
  
  I've thought about dumping the heavy bioturret and the hydro console. The weapon sucks and for me at least, I don't need the hydroconsole. Is that phaser boost worth an aft weapons slot and a console slot?
  
  What is your thinking behind dropping the KCB and the assimilated console?

  
  Thank you very much for the feedback!
  
  Plasmonic Leach:
  I actually have one of these, but I'm conflicted on which console to remove for it, and if it's worth it. My power levels seem consistently very high as it is, and so I feel like I wouldn't really be getting max value out of it unless I dropped my emergency power to x abilities and doffs for something else, but I generally like what I get out of them.
  
  Omni-phaser:
  Yeah, I have this suspicion that it may still be worth it even for the CSV loss. My parse shows that a single rear turret is adding ABOUT 900-1000 dps from scatter volley, but obviously the beam array keeps firing at its normal rate during that duration, so I don't think it has to do that much more than the turret to pull ahead. Plus I just like the idea of being able to utilize all the Vesta's perks, and one of them is target subsystems (albeit a kind of minor one..). Is standard procedure to maximize [crtD] on the omni-array?
  
  Tachyokinetic Converter
  I like this for eking out some more grav gens and critD, but not sure what to take out for it. Maybe assimilated console? I also was thinking about using Zero Point in this slot. Too many good consoles, ahh!
  
  Helmsman
  That's a pretty good idea, though it's less appealing than it used to be. Now that I have the Conductive RCS Accelerator and APO, I have fewer turn rate issues and less urgency towards getting Evasive Maneuvers back up. Still, "Techie" or something isn't really contributing a lot, so it'd probably still be an upgrade.
  
  Aux Overcapping
  My thought was basically that my weapons are constantly draining aux and pulling it below 130, but I still want to try to max my science damage as well. EP2A keeps my aux from dropping during weapon fire and also gives a boost to partgens and gravgens. I am honestly not sure whether this beats the straight up energy weapon damage boost from EP2W. I should try and test that some time.
  
  2pc Phaser Damage boost
  This seems better than I expected. Before I had the heavy phaser turret or fleet tac consoles, I compared the damage per hit on my phaser weapons using 4x VR mk xii tac consoles, or 3x VR mk xii tac consoles + Counter-Command Multi-Energy Relay (which is only +13.1% phaser damage base) and it was substantially better to use the 2 pc set bonus and give up the mk xii VR tac console. Since the 2pc set bonus is after all the normal tac console bonuses or whatever, it ends up being much higher than it looks. Still.. debatable whether it's worth running that heavy turret and hydronamics compensator for it. I don't have an amazing phaser turret to replace it with, so I've been keeping it for now.
  
  Dropping KCB/Assimilated
  I'm not sure I would drop the KCB - it just seems too good for an aft slot. I was just thinking about dropping assimilated because the Omega Weapon Amplifier proc isn't nearly as exciting with Aux Cannons (assuming it doesn't affect aux power drain from weapons?). It still provides some crit and grav gens, but less total power than bio-neural gel packs or zero-point energy. I dunno. I am keeping it for now!
  
  Your Build
  I keep trying to look at this but for some reason the page it loads is just blank. Can you double check and make sure your build link is working? Could be a problem on my network end, too, but I seem to be able to view my own build.

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• Unknown

  December 2014 edited December 2014

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• duneytron2000 Member Posts: 29 Arc User

  December 2014 edited December 2014

  edalgo wrote: »

  Plasmonic leech is a must on any energy weapon damage build. Flow Caps a must. More power ==more pwnage.
  
  On my Wells I just spam GW3+GW1. This would help you as keeping the crowd together for CSV. It opens up a doff slot as well. Or utilize TR2 in the LtCmdr slot.
  
  Omni Phaser in place of the standard turret. Keep the bio phaser for the phaser damage boost 2pc . But subsystem targeting can help sometimes.
  
  Tachyokinetic console over the Zero point. Better overall boosts for damage and this build.
  
  I suspect the borg 2pc is worth it for this build but it's easy to compare with and without.
  
  You should be able to overcap Aux BUT I suspect Aux cannons have the same Hardcap of 135 as DHCs. Still EPTA will help with drain and ALL Aux based skills.

  
  Thanks for the input! I think I'm going to give GW3 + GW1 a shot. Any suggestions on best choice for the replacement doff?

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• ashtarprime Member Posts: 44 Arc User

  December 2014 edited December 2014

  Hmm, that seems like it gave the wrong link. Hopefully this works. http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=ashtarprimevesta_7268
  
  Also, listen to whatever edalgo says over me. THAT SAID:
  
  Plasmonic Leech Yeah, if you have a Plasmonic Leech, you should use it. ALL THE POWER . You have a slightly more targeted aux cannon build than I do, but for me I want all aux all the time if I can, and the plasmonic helps with that (as well with everything else, since you want that [amp] even when the EPtXs aren't triggering extra general power).
  
  Omni-phaser The thing that doesn't make sense to me is that my omni-phaser outdpses any turret I've tried, and *includes* adding in the CSV damage for it. And I have CSV going all the time! (I have two copies of CSV and one of omega, rather than your one copy and ATB). I really don't understand. But yeah, for me at least, its worth it even without the subsystem targeting, which is always nice.
  
  Tachyokinetic Converter Too many consoles, indeed. But this one is way better for this type of build than ZPM, at the very least.
  
  Helmsman Right, you have one or two traits there that are kinda meh. And, the thing for me anyways, is I have an enhanced neutronium +turn rather than an RCS. That is more resistance with only a little less turn, and then you can get that extra turn from helmsman.
  
  Aux Overcapping Yeah, I have no idea how this averages out. I will say that if you *do* have that plasmonic leech in there, and you have the really high standing aux power anyways, then that gives you a lot more leeway to go EPtWs, which is what I use.
  
  Phaser 2pc Yeah, I saw a big jump when I first equipped them. I'm just not sure anymore. That bioturret is always my worst weapon, and (and here is where helmsman, and the pilot specializations come in handy) that console just isn't needed (particularly if you can find a place for the tachyokinetic converter). I'm not saying to ditch them at all, its still probably worth it. But mannnnnnnn.
  
  borg weapons/consoles Hmmm, I see what you are saying about the 2pc bonus. But even by itself the assimilated console is pretty badass. I honestly don't know at this point.
  
  And hopefully my build is working now?

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• Unknown

  December 2014 edited December 2014

  This content has been removed.
• ir0ncladbravo Member Posts: 51 Arc User

  December 2014 edited December 2014

  [QUOTE=ashtarprime;21423351
  Phaser 2pc Yeah, I saw a big jump when I first equipped them. I'm just not sure anymore. That bioturret is always my worst weapon, and (and here is where helmsman, and the pilot specializations come in handy) that console just isn't needed (particularly if you can find a place for the tachyokinetic converter). I'm not saying to ditch them at all, its still probably worth it. But mannnnnnnn.
  
  [/QUOTE]
  
  I use this for the 29% extra for Photon torps as I use the Enhanced Bio Torp, I get the 3 piece bonus and the Turret Barrage is good to use in tight spots as it always does the radiation bonus on everything shot though I am a bit dissapointed as the heavy Bio-Turret only does as much standard damage as a regular Bio Molecular turret from the 8472 Store which feels a bit of a con as its name says it is heavier.
  (But saying that Dual Cannons do the same damage and DPS as Dual heavy cannons)
  I do use the Quad Cannons off the defiant escort they are Evil maybee worth a punt on the Zen store to get it for your build.

  Everytime I see complaints about the same thing
  [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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• duneytron2000 Member Posts: 29 Arc User

  December 2014 edited December 2014

  Ah hah, that build link works, ashtar.
  
  Omni-beam
  I see that this is listed in your build as anti-proton. I assume that's supposed to be Phaser? And are those the properties you beam has?
  
  I was doing a little poking around to try and identify the damage disparity between the turret and omni array. Looks like the base dps for the turret is 138 at mk xii to 150 at epic mk xiv, whereas the omni array is 184 at mk xii vr to 280 at mk xiv epic! So the omni array does a base of 33% more damage to begin with (I'm assuming partially because of they all have [dam]), but at pic level, it does a whopping 86% more base damage. I don't know how much extra damage you get out of CSV, but depending on your upgrade level, the beam may just do enough more damage to blow that out.
  
  Additionally, range could be a factor as well - if you do much shooting past 5k, the beam is going to suffer less dropoff, but obviously that's harder to measure in your parse.
  
  Power Levels
  This looks like a little bit more defensive than my setup. I wonder if it might be worth it to pull a few points out of shield to keep weapon over 75, or vice versa, so that even with no EP2x up, you're still getting two [AMP] bonuses. If you're really aggressive, set it so your resting Engine power is 75+, so that you don't rely on your Warp Core Engineer proc to activate 4x[Amp]. I guess I don't really have a good feel for how high Plasmonic Leach keeps your levels, though, so maybe that's an unnecessary tweak.
  
  EP2A vs EP2W
  I suspect that EP2W may be the more correct choice here. The extra 10 points in my partg and gravgens are nice, but it's doubtful that they contribute as much as the straight weapon damage boost from EP2W. I mostly like it for helping overcap Aux, but maybe with Leach that wouldn't be as much of a concern.
  
  DOFFs
  Do you ever find the Gravimetric Scientist irritating? I ended up pulling mine because the aftershock gravity wells actually pulled things out of my frontal cone sometimes.
  
  Re: Orothro Venna - This doff seems purely defensive, which is fine. Do you find this effect frequently useful? I would consider this doff for cuts.
  
  1x DCE - Do you find your EP2X powers are up often enough with only one of these? Again, maybe with Leach it's less relevant, but I really like having at least 2 of these.
  
  BOFFs
  I wish I hadn't picked my nausicaan as a tactical officer. I didn't know what I was doing when I chose him. I got the right race, but wrong job. Alas. I'm assuming Superior Romulan > Pirate?
  
  Have you picked up the Hierarchy Boff yet? That lets you get Pirate in a science slot.
  
  Particle Manipulator
  Ugh, this is taking forever to acquire. :P I notice you don't really slot consoles for PartGens - any feedback on how effective this is? How many PartGens are you up to with your current setup? I've heard of some ridiculous 400 PartGen builds, but I think even like a 200 would be pretty awesome with particle manipulator, but that still takes a little bit of doing.
  
  Consoles
  You might investigate one of these Plasma emitting science consoles. They really do seem to add a very substantial amount of dps, especially at mk xiv. Other than that, it's hard to really know how to optimize them. Short of picking up jillion-EC PartGen versions of Conductive RCS or Exotic Particle Field Exciters, I've had a tough time finding anything that doesn't seem fairly subjective. I do rather like my [grav] versions of those consoles though - expanding the range of Gravity Well is appealing
  
  Eng Team/Sci Team over Aux2Sif/TSS
  Any particular reason you favor the engineering and science teams? I'm not super familiar with them, since I usually pick Aux2Sif for the damage resist boost and TSS for the total shield heal magnitude, but if there's a frequent additional utility you get out of Eng Team or Sci Team I'd be interested!
  
  
  Lastly, do you know if/what additional mods appear on aux cannons at Epic, or is CrtX the last one?

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• ashtarprime Member Posts: 44 Arc User

  December 2014 edited December 2014

  Omnibeam
  Yeah, its a phaser. It used to be an antiproton back before the crafting revamp, although I'm not sure why I upgraded the mk level on it but didn't change it to phaser. The mods are arc, acc, dmg, and crth.
  
  Yeah, I'm pretty sure it comes down the higher base dps (the reduced distance penalty probably helps, but I obviously try to get to 2-3 kms). I'm more just surprised that it does than anything.
  
  Power Levels
  Yeah, Plasmonic makes sure I always have 3 [AMPS] once a little shooting starts. But yeah, I only get 4 when the DCE procs. That all said, I'm pretty sure this is a suboptimal power level setup, and is probably the easiest way to tweak a little bit better performance out of things.
  
  Doffs
  
  Hmm, sometimes that gravimetric is a little annoying, I guess, but it usually doesn't take too long to reposition, and the additional clustering on big mobs outweighs the short repositioning time, at least to me.
  
  Orothro Venna: he is definitely the one who is most cuttable, but I'll get to that in the teams discussion.
  
  As for the 1 DCE: This is a dumb reason, but I've always liked having 6 different doffs for a little more varied experience. This is dumb for many reasons, and when I do switch out one of my current active doffs, I do switch in another DCE.
  
  Boffs
  Doh, sorry to hear about the naussican (yeah, I think sro >> pirate). And I feel like a moron, I didn't notice that the heirarchy boff had pirate too, and hadn't planned on messing with him until I get a ship that can use intelligence boff abilities (four days!) and can train all intelligence ranks (... eventually). Now I'll probably just make him my sci boff. Thanks!
  
  Particle Manipulator
  Yeah, this basically just takes forever. As for my partgens, yeah, they are embarassingly low. 130 at rest, goes up to a max of 160 if inspirational leader happens to achieve 3 stacks and, I guess, theoretically 260 if quantum singularity manipulation is going, although that rarely happens. I have though about one of those embassy sci consoles, and I'll probably get and level one to swap out with my QFFC and/or the neutronium (can't really see dropping any of my other consoles) and see how that works. I'll probably try and save up for one of those massive partgen exotic particle field exciters too, particularly because the one I got added the [pha] mod on upgrade (thats increased phaser resistance, which sucks). But yeah, I need to increase the partgens.
  
  Sci/Eng team vs Aux2Sif/TSS
  
  So, for one that Orothro Venna boff has a chance to go off on every use of a team power. So, more team powers mean more likely to take down enemy weapon power. On top of that, I dunno, I guess I like the instant heals when things I want them more than the heal over time + increased resistance. I'd have to do pretty extensive testing to see which works better for my build/playstyle over time, so I went the lazy route and picked the one that best synergized with orothro venna. If I was to replace him for an extended period of time, I'd probably switch up to aux2sif/tss at some point as well.
  
  No idea what additional mod appears for epic aux cannons. I tried googling and couldn't find anything

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