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So, seriously. What does Cryptic plan to do about the upset core of their playerbase?

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  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014

    My personal thanks for posting that article. I can't say that I completely disagree with anything the columnist said.

    I would love to hear Cryptic's response to that, without any high expectation that they're going to respond to it directly. If they at least quietly address the issues brought up, that will be okay with me.

    I think the article makes a really good point, in that whatever passed for balance before the new level cap and the T6 ships wasn't going to work after that. The Devs are going to need time to work out all of these issues, if they can.
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
    Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    bluegeek wrote: »
    My personal thanks for posting that article. I can't say that I completely disagree with anything the columnist said.

    I would love to hear Cryptic's response to that, without any high expectation that they're going to respond to it directly. If they at least quietly address the issues brought up, that will be okay with me.

    I think the article makes a really good point, in that whatever passed for balance before the new level cap and the T6 ships wasn't going to work after that. The Devs are going to need time to work out all of these issues, if they can.

    That article largely sums up my feelings on Delta Rising too, and I also appreciate the actual thought put into mentioning specifics and the over-all constructive and objective tone of the piece.

    I believe the biggest error on Cryptic's part was trying to simultaneously address a level cap, along with game difficulty and game balance.

    In my opinion, the smarter (and less ambitious) move would be to move the level cap to 60 with Delta Rising, while slightly increasing difficulty and a prototype specialization tree.

    Then, 6-8 months down the road, a separate patch to address balance, power creep, enemy difficulty, spec trees, and T6 ships.

    Alternatively, do not move the level cap to 60 but simply add a prototype spec point tree, and address game balance and difficulty with Delta Rising -- then use that as a springboard to see where to go with the level cap several months later and implementing more spec trees.

    What Delta Rising represents is overambition. Combining those two elements in one massive patch is a tall order to make for any development studio.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • qjuniorqjunior Member Posts: 2,023 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    bluegeek wrote: »
    My personal thanks for posting that article. I can't say that I completely disagree with anything the columnist said.

    I would love to hear Cryptic's response to that, without any high expectation that they're going to respond to it directly. If they at least quietly address the issues brought up, that will be okay with me.

    I think the article makes a really good point, in that whatever passed for balance before the new level cap and the T6 ships wasn't going to work after that. The Devs are going to need time to work out all of these issues, if they can.

    My guess is that actual testing would have helped.... or having any kind of understanding how their own game works. I can't say that I have ever come across that level of , shall we say, ignorance in other online games. :(
  • rodentmasterrodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I think the article is a joke... It basically excuses every problem the game has right now with "Yeah, but they had FOUR YEARS to hammer it out before" -- which isn't correct. Sure, the way I put that is an exaggeration, but not much of one. It's (IMO) dismissing anything that the game needs to look at and then say "The real problem is T6 ships are too expensive" -- which is not even in the top 20 of all game breaking problems right now. This isn't a minor balance and tweaking problem. This problem is systemic and the new system uses too much circular logic. The old system used relative logic. Guess which was is better?


    IMO that article is simply pretending to say there's a mess in STO right now, and then backtracks and explains that it's all okay and will sort itself out. That's disingenuous. That's just plain misleading.
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited December 2014
    It is over folks. Mourn the loss and walk away. This is what you get in a Perfect World.
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    iconians wrote: »
    That article largely sums up my feelings on Delta Rising too, and I also appreciate the actual thought put into mentioning specifics and the over-all constructive and objective tone of the piece.

    I believe the biggest error on Cryptic's part was trying to simultaneously address a level cap, along with game difficulty and game balance.

    In my opinion, the smarter (and less ambitious) move would be to move the level cap to 60 with Delta Rising, while slightly increasing difficulty and a prototype specialization tree.

    Then, 6-8 months down the road, a separate patch to address balance, power creep, enemy difficulty, spec trees, and T6 ships.

    Alternatively, do not move the level cap to 60 but simply add a prototype spec point tree, and address game balance and difficulty with Delta Rising -- then use that as a springboard to see where to go with the level cap several months later and implementing more spec trees.

    What Delta Rising represents is overambition. Combining those two elements in one massive patch is a tall order to make for any development studio.
    I'd be more specific than that.... it seems as though the biggest issue came from them rebalancing the HP of space mobs. They made it ridiculous on advanced, I don't even want to think about elite....

    The new advanced ground missions are fine, I have no issues there. But those don't have enemies with several times the HP of normal.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • ccarmichael07ccarmichael07 Member Posts: 755 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    flash525 wrote: »
    If word of mouth counts for anything, then they're going to fall short.

    I've been playing (and then grinding) this game since the launch of F2P, and in the early days did try to persuade friends to join, two of them in fact who I knew would have got involved and (dare I say it) spent actual money. At the time, one didn't have a working computer - at least one that was up to the task of running STO, and the other didn't have much free time.

    Back in October (or November) we went out, and this game came up in conversation (the one friend is getting a new system in the new year, and the other hasn't been as busy lately) and they asked me if I still recommended this to them. Suffice to say, I gave them enough reasons why they shouldn't even think about joining this, and should instead wait for the 40k MMO that's being worked on - they'd get more enjoyment out of that and can play it from the ground up.

    I like to think I've done my friends a huge favour.

    Sounds like what happened with my girlfriend.

    Before Delta Rising, I kinda got the bug to come back and wander the galaxy a bit. My girlfriend had left STO behind 2 years prior. With the XP event going, I convinced her to come back, roll another character, and catch up to my character, so that we could go to the Delta Quadrant together.

    Then Delta Rising came.

    - XP fell through the floor, to less gains than before the XP event.
    - Replaying old content returned even fewer XP gains than before.
    - There wasn't enough content for a continuous, uninterrupted story in Delta Rising.
    - Cryptic shut down Tau Dewa and called everyone exploiters.

    With all these things, my girlfriend gave up again and left. I know for a fact I will NEVER be able to talk her back to the game ever again. And since we play game together...if she isn't here, then I'm not here either. We play alot of DCUO and SWTOR. Sure, there is grind in those games too, but at least you have fun doing it, and the developers don't seem to work punishment into their every change and addition to the game.

    These days, I try and log in for 15-30 minutes a day. I start Doff missions and R & D Research. Then I log out again. Maybe by this time next year, I will have enough XP to enjoy the story of DR without grinding to open up the next chapter.

    Unless they nerf the XP further.


    "You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
    I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
  • buzz0942buzz0942 Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    the plan?

    closing threads i guess.
  • mikoto8472mikoto8472 Member Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    What the OP said, basically.
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited December 2014
    Sadly, Cryptic doesn't seem to care about people like you, your friend or myself. Unless you are a whale willing to feed them tons of money, grind out the game for hours on end or both then they don't care. They don't see to care about Trekkers and other fans either.

    I think they will regret alienating casual players in the long term though their short term profits will be boosted. At least we have this forum ... for now ...


    Sounds like what happened with my girlfriend.

    Before Delta Rising, I kinda got the bug to come back and wander the galaxy a bit. My girlfriend had left STO behind 2 years prior. With the XP event going, I convinced her to come back, roll another character, and catch up to my character, so that we could go to the Delta Quadrant together.

    Then Delta Rising came.

    - XP fell through the floor, to less gains than before the XP event.
    - Replaying old content returned even fewer XP gains than before.
    - There wasn't enough content for a continuous, uninterrupted story in Delta Rising.
    - Cryptic shut down Tau Dewa and called everyone exploiters.

    With all these things, my girlfriend gave up again and left. I know for a fact I will NEVER be able to talk her back to the game ever again. And since we play game together...if she isn't here, then I'm not here either. We play alot of DCUO and SWTOR. Sure, there is grind in those games too, but at least you have fun doing it, and the developers don't seem to work punishment into their every change and addition to the game.

    These days, I try and log in for 15-30 minutes a day. I start Doff missions and R & D Research. Then I log out again. Maybe by this time next year, I will have enough XP to enjoy the story of DR without grinding to open up the next chapter.

    Unless they nerf the XP further.
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited December 2014
    buzz0942 wrote: »
    the plan?

    closing threads i guess.

    Love the sig if I haven't said it before.
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • ccarmichael07ccarmichael07 Member Posts: 755 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    macronius wrote: »
    Sadly, Cryptic doesn't seem to care about people like you, your friend or myself. Unless you are a whale willing to feed them tons of money, grind out the game for hours on end or both then they don't care. They don't see to care about Trekkers and other fans either.

    I think they will regret alienating casual players in the long term though their short term profits will be boosted. At least we have this forum ... for now ...

    The funny thing is...I am a bit of a whale, as sad as I am to admit that. Maybe not a Blue Whale (Earth's Largest) but more like a Beluga (Mid to Small size). I've spent a fair amount of money on this game in buying a Lifetime, buying ships (I own almost every ship pre-DR, Fed and KDF), buying the LoR pack and buying Interiors, Costumes, Specialty Boffs and Zen.

    When the girlfriend left the 2nd time, my wallet closed for good. There is no reason to spend money on something I hardly use.

    Someone asked me why I chose Arrow as the theme for my signature. Beyond the appropo catch phrase...it is the truth. In all respects, Cryptic has failed this expansion. But more than that, there is a line from Season 1 of Arrow which seems fitting, that I will share:

    "...because a group of people, people like my father, they see nothing wrong with raising themselves up by stepping on other people's throats."

    This is how I feel about Cryptic and Delta Rising. They are raising themselves up, and doing it by stepping on the throats of the players, making it harder and harder to enjoy this game, much less make any progress.

    That is why Cryptic has FAILED this expansion.


    "You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
    I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
  • zathri83zathri83 Member Posts: 514 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The playerbase isn't upset because delta rising is the best expansion ever and the playerbase loves it.:cool:
  • lordatrocitieslordatrocities Member Posts: 462 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    azniadeet wrote: »
    Please keep any responses here civil and calm. I want this thread to be constructive.


    Thank you for the OP. I suspect that they are looking into it but right now its not a priority for them. They are drawing in enough new players each day to off set the cost of loosing paying older, subscription, and LTS members.

    So until their numbers really being to dive, they won't see a need to focus on addressing player issues.

    tis my 0.2 worth. I could be wrong, but evidence shows otherwise. :(
    What happened to those unique forum ranks I paid for?
  • naharikajalnaharikajal Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    2a. What happend to the "Foundry Spotlight" i.E. does anyone care anymore ... the last one was 1-2 months before DR, that's almost 6 months ago ...

    That's one of the biggest questions I do ask myself a lot these days. Why did it disappear? I mean there are so many wonderful Foundry missions available so it shouldn't be too difficult to choose new spotlights.

    I love the foundry and enjoy it a lot.

    Well it's just my opinion :-)
  • isawesomeisntisawesomeisnt Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    That's one of the biggest questions I do ask myself a lot these days. Why did it disappear? I mean there are so many wonderful Foundry missions available so it shouldn't be too difficult to choose new spotlights.

    I love the foundry and enjoy it a lot.

    Well it's just my opinion :-)

    Foundry was one of the most powerfull and inovative feature in any mmo, but never has get the proper develoment to reach the potential to be relevant, and thats sad.
  • sonnikkusonnikku Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    It's a pity Star Trek Voyager called it the Delta quadrant and not the Omega quadrant. The symbol in the
    STO expansion logo would have been a lot more fitting then.
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    sonnikku wrote: »
    It's a pity Star Trek Voyager called it the Delta quadrant and not the Omega quadrant. The symbol in the
    STO expansion logo would have been a lot more fitting then.

    I see what you did there
    GwaoHAD.png
  • ladymyajhaladymyajha Member Posts: 1,427 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    That's one of the biggest questions I do ask myself a lot these days. Why did it disappear? I mean there are so many wonderful Foundry missions available so it shouldn't be too difficult to choose new spotlights.

    I love the foundry and enjoy it a lot.

    Well it's just my opinion :-)

    I love the foundry.. there are some really creative and great quests in there. But the problem with the foundry was that it was never really properly policed and turned into that the majority of the people would rate 5 star any mission that basically was an exp/EC farm mission and ignore any of the story/RP missions. Having to dig through 10 farm missions to find that really cool RP/story mission became tedious at best.

    Which is what the Foundry Spotlight was supposed to fix, but with every new season and every new expansion Cryptic would break the foundry, every single time... it would take months to fix, and by the time it got fixed people would have maybe a month to publish new material before the next season came out... and broke the foundry again.

    I think people in general stopped dealing with the Foundry... it doesn't give exp/EC for the farms.. is always broken... and while there are some really great RP/Story missions... there are some really horrible ones too.

    Add in the fact that contrary to whatever Cryptic and their apologists are saying, there has been a decline in player population that stays longer then maybe an hour to farm out winter wonderland then goes off to play another game...and the foundry is kind of dead.

    Besides the Foundry doesn't bring Cryptic any direct money... so they don't care about it.
  • mosul33mosul33 Member Posts: 836 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    OP, this is one of the most well wriiten post I've seen post-DR that brings all the issues in question. 100% agree with everything you said. And I like that you brought up the positive things about DR. The story, the ships, the art etc is great and those devs that did that deserve credit.
    But unfortunelly, not those devs are in the head of things. And i think the leads/heads are too proud or too stuborn to admit that some of the things like HP increase was too much. I doubt we will see anything be done about those things, since they hide behind it via "Its players fault not adapting..." responses :rolleyes:
    Anyway, was a good game while it lasted.
  • torch0777torch0777 Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I'm afraid we reached "Maintenance Mode" at this point (S9.5 / DR) ... and they don't really care anymore ... why you may ask :

    1. Delta Rising vs. LoR ... just look at what's supposed to be an Expansion these days ... we got 9 quality Story Episodes vs. 50 in LoR, 10 vs. 30 Ships etc, and the only thing that's not in LoR is some kind of "long term goal", where you have to repeat existing content ad infinitum ... sorry that's something you bring in when you know content is gonna dry out ... it's either that or they didn't know what they're doing ...

    My bet is on the latter...who suffers..us playerbase :)
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    That's one of the biggest questions I do ask myself a lot these days. Why did it disappear? I mean there are so many wonderful Foundry missions available so it shouldn't be too difficult to choose new spotlights.

    I love the foundry and enjoy it a lot.

    Well it's just my opinion :-)
    It was mostly Branflakes that did that. Smirk occasionally does it but not often.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • mvp333mvp333 Member Posts: 509 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I'd wait about another month or two before joining the doomwagon normally, but in this case, I think I can safely supply a simple answer.

    What are they going to do about the (few) players who actually give a damn?

    Nothing.

    The bottom line is, there just aren't enough of us, and this isn't Mojang or some indie company - it's Cryptic, a largeish studio working for a large company, and their job isn't to spend man-hours catering to one small group while everyone else is happily throwing money at whatever TRIBBLE is handed to them, it's to make PWE as much money as possible. This game is 'bleeding,' sure, but only about as much as someone who poked themself with a sewing needle.
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited December 2014
    Too the OP

    I believe they/cryptic want veterans to quit because we dont spend money like Noobs do

    And we poison noobs about whats been nerfed and whats so much harder now and what NOT to spend money on like

    A Galaxy class Ect for example
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • dragonkata81dragonkata81 Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The Foundry Spotlight has gone the way of the rest of the game, strong-armed to be what Cryptic want.

    If you look in the Foundry tab, the first sticky will be a Foundry mission comp, usually something tied with an event, the last one was Mirror Event, this one is New Years 2409. The mission that wins will be the only Spotlight published (if at all). So now you get one new Spotlight every 3-4 months.

    And I imagine most Foundry authors (myself included) look at the proposed project, roll their eyes and ignore it.
  • lystentlystent Member Posts: 1,019
    edited December 2014
    They are already doing something to address the upset player base: they stop their complaints and ignore all that is legit. It helps them maintain every one else's illusion that all is peachy.
    So be prepared to be... IGNORED.
  • dpsloss88dpsloss88 Member Posts: 765 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    jellico1 wrote: »
    Too the OP

    I believe they/cryptic want veterans to quit because we dont spend money like Noobs do

    And we poison noobs about whats been nerfed and whats so much harder now and what NOT to spend money on like

    A Galaxy class Ect for example

    Interesting theory, but it supposes someone at Crytpic is a very intelligent.
  • stf65stf65 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    dpsloss88 wrote: »
    Interesting theory, but it supposes someone at Crytpic is a very intelligent.
    It's exactly those types of personal attacks against cryptic that gets threads closed and deleted.
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