The only thing they need to do is remove the ACC component from the ability.
Not really. Or at all. There are multiple proven ways to remove defense. That being the case your suggested fix would certainly stymie the lazy but no one else. I'm sure there are players enjoying large amounts of overflow though and I'm sure this contributes to the feeling that this ability is overpowered.
All the holds and disables are somewhat easily countered if they are not flat out broken and if you are being nuked you should still have reserve abilities at the ready. If you are being multi-nuked it doesn't matter anyways, at least not when you're on your own (which would be pretty much any pug situation)
Players would have to rely more on ACC again and the linear power increase that comes from CrtD in conjunction with this ablility would be severely diminished.
No. Not so much. It's been pretty much accepted fact that you can't chase down defense with accuracy and even with the buff from surgical strikes there is still the possibility of being on the wrong end of the accuracy - defense equation as the attacker. And all abilities that use the non linear hit table are also...non linear. So you need to convince us that you know what your're talking about there. So far not so good.
So the minimum toHit value is 25% the maximum is of course 100% with ACC and Def being equal. Let's say i'm aiming to get to 75% toHit that would mean that the difference between could only ever be 30. People have an average of 100 bonus defense nowadays at full speed without any additional buff (might be too high of an estimation) and around 30 bonus accuracy (might be too low of an estimation).
Let's look at the following scenarios then:
Having full ACC gear (epic accx4 weaponary) vs having full CrtD (crtdx4 antiproton) gear and the implications of SS3 havin no vs normal ACC bonus considering the base values i gave.
120 vs 100 = 100% - full acc gear plus SS3 with acc bonus
80 vs 100 = 83% - no acc gear plus SS3 with acc bonus
80 vs 100 = 83% - full acc gear plus SS3 without acc bonus
40 vs 100 = 62% - no acc gear plus SS3 without acc bonus
That would mean a 25% loss in damage for players that choose to go all out on CrtD if SS wouldn't give you any ACC bonus anymore. And to apply the theory that you can't reach acc values high enough to achieve a 100 toHit rate, consider that there are nearly as many abilities (passive or active) that boost for nearly exactly the same amount, so these toHit values can be seen as pretty much fixed. Only if you activate short term buffs will this shift in favor of defense. Abilities that enhance ACC trigger when you activate either tactical abilities or weapon enhancing abilities and can be seen as basically always active since you only activate those if you want to fire at something anyways.
All of this can only be assumed in a persistant enviroment where IT is fixed and the Hold doesn't work as an additional Disable.
Vapers are a different concern, but i can safely say that i don't get vaped if i have counters against disables and holds on board plus a nice little defense boosting ability. Pre DR a simple APO + evasive was enough to escpae most vapers. That's no longer the case with SS anymore.
Though SS2 and above are probably bugged. They shouldn't increase the base damage of attacks by as much as they do. Bort said that the damage increase was only to offset the loss due to fyring more slowly, but this offset clearly scales wrong with the ability's rank.
Not really sure what you're saying here unless it's "It does to much damage they must have coded it wrong.". You may want to clear that up a bit. What's your basis for saying that it clearly 'scales wrong'?
Borticus said that the increase to the base damage (damage per shot) was implemented to keep the DPS of the attack at a normal level, because they did reduce the number of shots. Never did he say that the base damage buff would scale with the abilities rank. So, my assumption was that this is unitended behavior. Maybe i'm wrong, who knows. I can't look into his head and since the degree of communication has been severely reduced over the last couple of weeks, i don't see an answer coming anytime soon.
If I may, I've noticed that you can use intelligence abilities while cloaked, I think that's why SS works while enhanced cloaked. Not sayin it's right, specially in this case.
Agreed. I've no issue with an intel ability that can be used while cloaked, even a weapon modifier. But if the weapons themselves (beams, cannons) are supposed to be disabled, then they shouldn't fire and the modifier shouldn't kick in.
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I just did a run with my stay cloaked ss ability and was able to be targeted so i didn't see the benefit of using it while cloaked so much other than i don't have to click cloak once my run was done. During this time of shooting my shields were off so all damage went to hull.
I just did a run with my stay cloaked ss ability and was able to be targeted so i didn't see the benefit of using it while cloaked so much other than i don't have to click cloak once my run was done. During this time of shooting my shields were off so all damage went to hull.
Damage was still redic!
as far as i could tell SS wile cloaked only woks because the ship has an enhanced battlecloak. when you use it you become visible, its just that you never have to bother hitting the cloak button if thats your only energy weapon buff skill.
TBR works the same way with an EBC, during its duration your visible, but that might not be such a good thing for a EBC troll boat.
LOL. I never asked for anything: I just played the game. And then, one day, they offered T6 ships with cool new abilities: cool enough for me to want to invest in. So, yeah, not too fond of ppl immediately wanting to destroy that, simply because they can't win in PvP any more.
See, I don't even think your PvP concerns are invalid. I just hate it when *I* get nerfed, because PvP-ers have an issue. Honestly, hand to God, I wish they'd put you guys on your own PvP server, with your own rules, not affecting everyone else. Guess that's not going to happen, though.
Like I said, I should probably just not read here, and not get upset with all the outlandish nerf proposals.
Actually it would be nice if they put you pve peeps on a different server.
Many of us here LOVE to play against other online people, that is why i joined this game to begin with, how do you people not get bored of shooting the same npc over and over and grinding constantly? Yeah they offered t6 ships,,which made most of the other ships now obsolete, i spent 2 years grinding AND spending my hard earned money to gear up a good ship and compete and now i have to do it all over again as i simply cannot compete against intel TRIBBLE. I dont know if i will or not, i really dont want to spend money on a new ship, then buy boffs on top of that, im having a hard enough time with this stupid upgrade system that is clearly designed to make tons of money just like releasing tier 6 ships. You have no clue how all this junk has destroyed what up pvp peeps love most, people thought LOR messed it up, thats nothing compared to DR,,oh and not to mention the starship mastery,,,the skill tree TRIBBLE,,endless new reps coming out to grind, now people not only have higher critH and critD, but can also get AP DBBs with 100 crit severity, then run SS3, ionic turb, cloaking with no need for a console slot to be used, its garbage now.
I have no problem changing with times, and changing a build, or using a new wep that comes out, of trying to pilot my ship different, but this is too much, oh but you cry about us complaining, it is you pve people always demanding MOAR junk,,,more dps, more cheesy sci spam, more hit points, more consoles, and the more STO gives you, the worse it is for us.
And I'm waiting for the day they visit pvp and balance it out more, but something tells me this is a year or two away before they ever decided to invest time into it.
In the meantime, I will be getting my fix from Space Engineers and Elite Dangerous.
And I'm waiting for the day they visit pvp and balance it out more, but something tells me this is a year or two away before they ever decided to invest time into it.
In the meantime, I will be getting my fix from Space Engineers and Elite Dangerous.
Keep waiting - it's been a year or two away/"next season"/"soon!" since Launch.
And, to be honest, with the way Delta Rising (appears to) drive people away combined with the fact that STO is already 5 years old, I doubt we'll see PvP ever even looked at again, let alone have any abilities balanced towards. STO is old by MMO standards, has a smaller playerbase that's only getting smaller, a rather one-sided and short sighted Dev team that would rather make a quick buck than actually give us something meaningful, and has never even in the slightest shown any interest towards fulfilling their PvP promises.
Actually it would be nice if they put you pve peeps on a different server.
Many of us here LOVE to play against other online people, that is why i joined this game to begin with, how do you people not get bored of shooting the same npc over and over and grinding constantly? Yeah they offered t6 ships,,which made most of the other ships now obsolete, i spent 2 years grinding AND spending my hard earned money to gear up a good ship and compete and now i have to do it all over again as i simply cannot compete against intel TRIBBLE. I dont know if i will or not, i really dont want to spend money on a new ship, then buy boffs on top of that, im having a hard enough time with this stupid upgrade system that is clearly designed to make tons of money just like releasing tier 6 ships. You have no clue how all this junk has destroyed what up pvp peeps love most, people thought LOR messed it up, thats nothing compared to DR,,oh and not to mention the starship mastery,,,the skill tree TRIBBLE,,endless new reps coming out to grind, now people not only have higher critH and critD, but can also get AP DBBs with 100 crit severity, then run SS3, ionic turb, cloaking with no need for a console slot to be used, its garbage now.
I have no problem changing with times, and changing a build, or using a new wep that comes out, of trying to pilot my ship different, but this is too much, oh but you cry about us complaining, it is you pve people always demanding MOAR junk,,,more dps, more cheesy sci spam, more hit points, more consoles, and the more STO gives you, the worse it is for us.
Ha! I guess you can dream; 100 people playing, and your reasonable suggestion is to move 99 people away for the benefit of the 1? Even if you got your wish, you wouldn't like the real result as the game dies from lack of funds. Kinda silly, no?
Having said that, I do have sympathy for the plight of PVPers. Playing against other people does have a much different feel than predictable NPCs. I just never felt that STO was a suitable game for PVP, mostly because there is too big of an effectiveness gap between the top and bottom players. Skill differences are ok, but the gear and ship gaps are far too large. If I start up a completely new character in CoD, although I will be at a disadvantage I can still contribute and get kills right away. In STO, experienced and geared players can kill me off with almost zero chance of losing a single kill to me. Plus, personally I don't feel PvP fits in with Star Trek; it is a five-year mission, not a five-ship mission.
I don't have any confidence that this can be turned back into a level enough playing field for PvP to grow.
I think peeps who complain about PvP using the standard offensive repertoire are wussies. Find a team solution. Don't beg for nerfs until you're the best again. That's sheer Kirky reprogramming of the test, which is boring and unsportsmanlike.
I think peeps who complain about PvP using the standard offensive repertoire are wussies. Find a team solution. Don't beg for nerfs until you're the best again. That's sheer Kirky reprogramming of the test, which is boring and unsportsmanlike.
hmm, sure... it shouldn't be that hard to cross heal like surgical 3's from like 2 simoultanesly goin vapers with chained disables and some other toys away, eh?! (note: reaction time must be like 2-3 secs max. mostly it's more like only 1) :rolleyes:...
yet there mostly have been team-solutions possible. but with dr powers in their current state that's done. no more adaption.
well if not, if u have a idea how to overcome such meta plz enlighten us all (in a new thread lol). thx in forward.
...sigh.... i'll have a piece *munchmunch* .... mjammie, dead me(a)t(a)....
Comments
10chaaaaar
I totally agree.
Agreed. I've no issue with an intel ability that can be used while cloaked, even a weapon modifier. But if the weapons themselves (beams, cannons) are supposed to be disabled, then they shouldn't fire and the modifier shouldn't kick in.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Damage was still redic!
as far as i could tell SS wile cloaked only woks because the ship has an enhanced battlecloak. when you use it you become visible, its just that you never have to bother hitting the cloak button if thats your only energy weapon buff skill.
TBR works the same way with an EBC, during its duration your visible, but that might not be such a good thing for a EBC troll boat.
Actually it would be nice if they put you pve peeps on a different server.
Many of us here LOVE to play against other online people, that is why i joined this game to begin with, how do you people not get bored of shooting the same npc over and over and grinding constantly? Yeah they offered t6 ships,,which made most of the other ships now obsolete, i spent 2 years grinding AND spending my hard earned money to gear up a good ship and compete and now i have to do it all over again as i simply cannot compete against intel TRIBBLE. I dont know if i will or not, i really dont want to spend money on a new ship, then buy boffs on top of that, im having a hard enough time with this stupid upgrade system that is clearly designed to make tons of money just like releasing tier 6 ships. You have no clue how all this junk has destroyed what up pvp peeps love most, people thought LOR messed it up, thats nothing compared to DR,,oh and not to mention the starship mastery,,,the skill tree TRIBBLE,,endless new reps coming out to grind, now people not only have higher critH and critD, but can also get AP DBBs with 100 crit severity, then run SS3, ionic turb, cloaking with no need for a console slot to be used, its garbage now.
I have no problem changing with times, and changing a build, or using a new wep that comes out, of trying to pilot my ship different, but this is too much, oh but you cry about us complaining, it is you pve people always demanding MOAR junk,,,more dps, more cheesy sci spam, more hit points, more consoles, and the more STO gives you, the worse it is for us.
And I'm waiting for the day they visit pvp and balance it out more, but something tells me this is a year or two away before they ever decided to invest time into it.
In the meantime, I will be getting my fix from Space Engineers and Elite Dangerous.
Keep waiting - it's been a year or two away/"next season"/"soon!" since Launch.
And, to be honest, with the way Delta Rising (appears to) drive people away combined with the fact that STO is already 5 years old, I doubt we'll see PvP ever even looked at again, let alone have any abilities balanced towards. STO is old by MMO standards, has a smaller playerbase that's only getting smaller, a rather one-sided and short sighted Dev team that would rather make a quick buck than actually give us something meaningful, and has never even in the slightest shown any interest towards fulfilling their PvP promises.
Ha! I guess you can dream; 100 people playing, and your reasonable suggestion is to move 99 people away for the benefit of the 1? Even if you got your wish, you wouldn't like the real result as the game dies from lack of funds. Kinda silly, no?
Having said that, I do have sympathy for the plight of PVPers. Playing against other people does have a much different feel than predictable NPCs. I just never felt that STO was a suitable game for PVP, mostly because there is too big of an effectiveness gap between the top and bottom players. Skill differences are ok, but the gear and ship gaps are far too large. If I start up a completely new character in CoD, although I will be at a disadvantage I can still contribute and get kills right away. In STO, experienced and geared players can kill me off with almost zero chance of losing a single kill to me. Plus, personally I don't feel PvP fits in with Star Trek; it is a five-year mission, not a five-ship mission.
I don't have any confidence that this can be turned back into a level enough playing field for PvP to grow.
The head people....aim for the head
hmm, sure... it shouldn't be that hard to cross heal like surgical 3's from like 2 simoultanesly goin vapers with chained disables and some other toys away, eh?! (note: reaction time must be like 2-3 secs max. mostly it's more like only 1) :rolleyes:...
yet there mostly have been team-solutions possible. but with dr powers in their current state that's done. no more adaption.
well if not, if u have a idea how to overcome such meta plz enlighten us all (in a new thread lol). thx in forward.
...sigh.... i'll have a piece *munchmunch*