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Pathfinder 35K DPS (ISA PUG) with >50% damage dealt as Exotic Damage
venyarth
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I've been tweaking this Pathfinder build for weeks (two posts earlier in this forum at 21K and 28K builds), and now have done over 80 successful pure solo queue Pickup Group (PUG) ISA runs on it.
I wanted to build a beam/torp/sci power ship that packed some punch - this Pathfinder is what I've built /flown to date. Piloting this is a lot different then a pure BFAW damage ship.
I average 25K+ DPS consistently in ISA PUGs in 8-11 minute runs, and have finally hit 35K DPS. There is still more upside - I need Pedal to Metal trait, plus a few more changes. I think 40K is definitely doable.
One Note: I use a Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo launcher - a great, under-rated torpedo for Sci ships that no one uses. In all my PUG parses I am the only Captain using it.
Unfortunately, CombatLog Reader / STO Combat log always designates about 1/3rd to 1/2 of my Torpedo Plasma Cloud damage (Plasma Particle Emission) as "unowned damage". This is about 2K DPS in most cases.
Given that I am the only one using the torpedo/Cloud (verified by looking at other teammates parses), and that this torpedo Cloud only shows damage to Borg, AND it's damage over time graph perfectly matches with my other Cloud damage - I feel 100% comfortable in adding it's damage to my total DPS claim, even if it isn't "DPS-League" official.
Bottom line - that "unowned" Plasma Cloud damage didn't come from any other source on the map but me, so I'm claiming it.
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Pathfinder Class: USS Edgefarer - Captain Vyntares (Tactical)
Damage Parse (33K - DPS League Settings)
http://i.imgur.com/6NJZUZY.jpg
The "unowned" 2K damage from my Torpedo's Plasma Particle Emission cloud, same run.
http://i.imgur.com/UQzQObT.jpg
The overall PUG team results.
http://i.imgur.com/9AgJ1gJ.jpg
Damage breakout by Exotic, etc. to support the >50% claim:
http://i.imgur.com/akpk7GE.jpg
Full build is here (DOFFs and other key aspects in notes):
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=ussedgefarerpathfinder35kpug_8754
________________
Please feel free to ask any questions about this build - how to fly it to get highest DPS, etc. I'll try and reply below.
I'm posting so that anyone who loves the Intrepid/Pathfinder class can find out how it's possible to do all the fun Science stuff with this ship - while also having some nice/proven DPS that is heavily science based/influenced (and achieved in a PUG / no pre-mades).
I wanted to build a beam/torp/sci power ship that packed some punch - this Pathfinder is what I've built /flown to date. Piloting this is a lot different then a pure BFAW damage ship.
I average 25K+ DPS consistently in ISA PUGs in 8-11 minute runs, and have finally hit 35K DPS. There is still more upside - I need Pedal to Metal trait, plus a few more changes. I think 40K is definitely doable.
One Note: I use a Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo launcher - a great, under-rated torpedo for Sci ships that no one uses. In all my PUG parses I am the only Captain using it.
Unfortunately, CombatLog Reader / STO Combat log always designates about 1/3rd to 1/2 of my Torpedo Plasma Cloud damage (Plasma Particle Emission) as "unowned damage". This is about 2K DPS in most cases.
Given that I am the only one using the torpedo/Cloud (verified by looking at other teammates parses), and that this torpedo Cloud only shows damage to Borg, AND it's damage over time graph perfectly matches with my other Cloud damage - I feel 100% comfortable in adding it's damage to my total DPS claim, even if it isn't "DPS-League" official.
Bottom line - that "unowned" Plasma Cloud damage didn't come from any other source on the map but me, so I'm claiming it.
______________
Pathfinder Class: USS Edgefarer - Captain Vyntares (Tactical)
Damage Parse (33K - DPS League Settings)
http://i.imgur.com/6NJZUZY.jpg
The "unowned" 2K damage from my Torpedo's Plasma Particle Emission cloud, same run.
http://i.imgur.com/UQzQObT.jpg
The overall PUG team results.
http://i.imgur.com/9AgJ1gJ.jpg
Damage breakout by Exotic, etc. to support the >50% claim:
http://i.imgur.com/akpk7GE.jpg
Full build is here (DOFFs and other key aspects in notes):
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=ussedgefarerpathfinder35kpug_8754
________________
Please feel free to ask any questions about this build - how to fly it to get highest DPS, etc. I'll try and reply below.
I'm posting so that anyone who loves the Intrepid/Pathfinder class can find out how it's possible to do all the fun Science stuff with this ship - while also having some nice/proven DPS that is heavily science based/influenced (and achieved in a PUG / no pre-mades).
Post edited by venyarth on
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Thanks for the reply!
Power numbers in the build are "rest state" un-buffed, with no Leech, etc. That is:
W: 115, S:54, E:38, A: 102
The build has ~200 Flow Caps, thus in battle Plasmonic Leech gives +24 to each system, and that is always up. That maxes Auxiliary at 125, Weapons past 125 with overcap, and Shields at 78 or 3x [AMP].
When Energy Siphon is also up, it adds enough to push Engines right to 75 - thus 4x [AMP].
Also, when OSS 1 skill is up, it adds another 30 to every system on top of all of the above. Aux at 155 for a few seconds, and over 125 for 20 seconds.
I've never run SB234 - Now I will have to check it out
If you are referring to effects like stacked Attack Power Beta (Recluse carrier pet help), or voice chat pre-made team coordinated overlapping team buffs (like Tactical Fleet), then yes - that is how the builds which get 100K+ are done.
The fact that these are <90 second ISA runs also makes the above more of a burst results, and not 6-8 min results like in a typical PUG. Not to take anything away from the high dpsers (their work has taught me a lot), because it "is" what the ship did - but certainly those are huge team influenced results that are well beyond what a solo ship would do.
I try to mitigate that in my results by not running in pre-mades, no voice coordination, etc. Just plain old "I queue up solo in the PVE queue and fly with whomever I'm randomly grouped with". Over and over at all different times of day.
PUGs are the most "accessible" STF environment for most players, and thus I feel my results from PUGs are more comparable to the average situation players will encounter.
Excellent question. Thank you for asking it.
I do die often in this build - at least once per ISA, and usually 2-3 times, but that has much to do with aggressive flying as anything.
My next version will be tougher in terms of survivability (I need to cobble together the marks, etc.), and thus should do more dps, since dead ships don't do damage
There are 5 other, interlocking things that help me survive:
(1) I actually do have a second hull heal in Desperate Repairs, the Guardian unlocked Starship trait. It actually repaired me for 90K in that run, more than the 87K of the Hazard Emitters. This is pretty typical of my parses.
While Desperate Repairs is a somewhat randomly timed hull repair - that is it's only drawback. In it's favor is the fact that it is a HUGE repair, it's INSTANT, and it usually occurs when you really need it. When under heavy fire, you'll suffer the three incoming crits needed to trigger it pretty quickly, and at that point in time, that is when you really need that burst heal. It also heals shields too.
(2) Keeping shields up will help mitigate the need for Hull repairs. You touched on this a bit with the fact that I spam Science Team and Tac Team every 19 seconds. (Side note, TAC team often cools down faster due to Reciprocity. Note 2: Tac team buffs the exotic damage by 7.5% due to Emitter Syngery Trait from Scryer)
I also use a well timed Bio-Molecular Shield Generator (Counter Command T5 Rep Trait) to pretty much be immune to damage for 30 seconds. Useful when charging into the first Spheres. Since my PUG runs are often 8+ mins, I can often use this twice, either at the second spheres, or the TAC cube at end.
Positive Feedback Loop (Personal/Genetic Trait), also adds 10% to heals, because I'm always spamming an exotic skill to trigger this.
(3) I fly and turn fast enough to speed tank to some degree, so Aux to Damp not only gives me more resistance, but it lets me max my Defense through additional speed (and helps me turn faster to keep in close range/in arc). This is also why this build has 2x Beam Arrays up front, and not the original 2x Dual Beam Banks. I'm spin orbiting a lot. Roughly 25% misses from all attacks on me.
(4) In the toughest/heaviest situations, I actively shed aggro via Quantum Singularity Manipulation (T5 Rep trait - puts ship in stealth, the +100 Sci skill boost is merely a bonus), and Failsafe Scrambler (Genetic/Personal Trait - 10km area placate for 5s when I get below 20% hull). The Adapated M.A.C.O. Shield also has a 20% chance to placate an attacking enemy (10s CD)
These buy me enough time to get other heals/hull up (see #5 also).
(5) The last, best secret of surviving in this build, is the Temporary Hull from (A) use of Science Team and the Pathfinder Starship unlock trait "Ablative Field Projector" (Gives 3,000 temp Hull on every shield heal), and (B) the Attack Pattern Expertise II (Pilot Specialization unlocked at 3 points) that gives me ~7,200 temp Hull on every use of Attack Power Beta. These stack with each other.
If you assume I hit Science Team and APB every 20 secs when it's off CD (APB gets cooled down when I'm shot at due to Reciprocity starship trait from the Phanrom), that's 30,000+ extra hull every minute for the enemies to chew through. Over the course of this 5 minute PUG run, that's 150,000 extra hull, which is greater than either of my other two hull repairs. It's 240,000+ extra hull in a typical 8 minute PUG ISA run.
Often being the highest DPS, and often running solo into the Spheres with GW/TBR to prevent the ISA from failing, I'm under constant fire in ISA even with full -Threat Consoles, so that temporary hull is almost always used up when I activate it.
I need all five of these to survive. Some are spammed, some are auto triggered, and some I use with purposeful timing for max effect.
I sometimes fly it with Bio-Neural Gel Pack instead of the Zero-Point Energy Console. For the 35K run, the Zero-Point happened to be installed.
I think they are roughly equivalent in terms of impacting my total DPS output.
I'm definitely going to have to try SB234 next chance I get.
Unfinished Defiant build using phasers on a Tac. I do need to re-skill and I have really bad doffs at the minute as I levelled this toon up after Dilithium Rising launched to see how long it'd take.
Thinking about switching to AP, but the cost of the weapons with the best modifiers is prohibitive. :eek:
I'm closely following how you get on as your ship is set up fairly close to how I run mine, except I haven't got the TBR pull doff or 6 doff slots yet. I currently use Tyken's Rift instead of TBR.
Also i'm using DBB's instead of arrays as I feel it's nimble enough to be used in that way, also it means that i'm hopefully not drawing too much aggro with BFAW with the array's wider arcs.
I really wish the devs would pull their finger out and release some more secondary deflectors though, I feel that the synergy they could potentially offer would really push this ship above anything else.
So very, very true.
But I've pretty much given up hope of us seeing them on anything less than those already with one or newer T6's as standard.
Pretty pitiful if you ask me, hell when they released warp core a few seasons ago there wasn't a massive year long wait for decent ones to show up whilst everyone flew about with some shoddy low Mk stop gap piece of kit.
The tech is already in game for those ships with the slot already! Just release some more varieties and be done with it at the very least!
Thank you for the reply. The earlier iterations of my Pathfinder had DBB's. It does great damage. I may go back to it some day.
What made me use Beam Arrays up front (for now) were a few related things:
(1) I want to keep my speed up for Defense reasons (and later on when I get it, Pedal to the Metal 10% damage bonus), and it's hard to keep DBB's on target at full speed. "Ramming" the Borg Cubes with DBB works great, until they blow up and I find my ship "inside" the cube - failing to get out before a huge warp core breach wrecks me.
(2) With the Space Flanking II trait (10% bonus to rear arc damage, Intel Specialization), I sometime need to circle the target to get to the rear arc. With Beam Arrays I can be firing at them while I circle at 1km (for max beam damage).
(3) The TBR pull is a very long 8-10 seconds. Unless I'm backpedaling in reverse, or standing still, I can't keep DBB's on target while TBR (with pull) is up. But with Beam arrays and high turn rate (I'm 48 deg/s with A2D active), I can keep full damage on the target while orbiting them at full speed, and at point blank range.
In other words, the times I can bring Beam Array to bear on target when DBB cannot be, outweighs the added damage the DBB does when it is on target.
I hope this gives some insight into my build logic.
I personally don't like getting into drawn out fight with my Pathfinder, it's not a ship you want to go head-2-head with a lot of NPCs or a boss ship in. I mainly try to use grav wells and TS to hammer them from a distance, utilizing the pilot spec tree to boost my survivability when at max speed.
I find the ship draws a metric tonne of aggro when it flings out a grav well, something that a sci boat isn't really designed to handle. I've got one -Th console but plan to get more.
That emission torp is super-cool fun though, i've not seen enormous DPS from it yet (need to get some more fleet particle gen consoles) but it works well with the like of grav wells as the slow down to the NPCs causes them to suffer even more damage.
I find grav well + grav torp spread + emission torp spread (by using purple projectile doffs + reciprocity) give some spectacular results.
That is very true. No one will ever mistake the Pathfinder for a tanking Cruiser. LOL.
However, with the right skills available/off CD, and in the right situations, the Pathfinder can live at point blank range trading head to head shots in those scenarios for a short period of time.
I have sometimes tanked the final Tactical cube pretty much start to finish for about 1-2 mins. I needed my Bio Molecular Shield, spammed Evasive and Rock and Roll, hope for a Desperate Repairs proc, Adapted MACO shield placate proc, etc.
I'll take 340,000 damage just from the Tactical Cube - and Feedback Pulse back 1,000,000+ damage to it. This both ups my DPS and shortens the fight - helping me survive it. Definitely a Win-Win.
That's a great tactic - and sometimes I ask myself why I don't do that when I'm on my 4th death in an ISA
I only get in close to min/max that part of my damage - with the tradeoff of survivability, since the enemies hit harder at close range too....
The other 2/3rds damage (exotic/torp/pet) is still maximized at max range.
I found to my dismay that no matter how many -Th consoles I have, if no one else is shooting at your target it's going to aggro you after you damage it - even if your threat is reduced by some huge %. Because even the smallest number is > zero, thus you will get the aggro.
Also, I feel guilty bringing all that DPS (relative to the others), and then dumping off the aggro to a PUG that maybe couldn't afford a -Th Fleet console. Essentially using the rest of the team as unwilling cannon fodder - which definitely goes against my sense of fairness.
I have actually run with a mix of +Th and -Th to neutralize that. In general I do about half the damage of the whole team in a PUG, and I take about half the total damage. That mix seems about right/fair.
I'm seriously considering all +Th and just Feedback Pulsing some more dps. I've done 4,200+ DPS in an 8 min PUG just from FBP2 in that scenario.
The Ablative Armor console in the Intrepid pack also looks like a lot of fun when I've run some trials with it, and since > 2/3d my damage is from non-Energy Weapons, I can still dish out the pain while under the armor's weapons restriction.
And not only does it give spectacular results, for me it is the MOST FUN
This is so true. I've lost track of how many times I've been the target for the entire tac cube fight despite there being scimitars or avengers spamming BFAW at the thing. But I do survive most of the time despite this. What I find the biggest threat is groups of NPCs like spheres or what not, they can be unpredictable because with a single target you can sort of work out what it'll do next - a group is a lot more random and variable.
I find that on pretty much every instance of ISA I got into I'm the only one doing crowd control so i'm fairly certain i'm the one that saves the mission from failing. Nobody else is doing CC, everyone tries to DPS it and that is not a guarantee of success, not by a long shot. When running the same mission in my Phantom which can nuke pretty much anything it faces I've failed a lot more ISA pugs as pure DPS will not stop a mob of nanite spheres if you're trying to kill the transformer at the same time.
I die normally twice in ISA I find, once for each group of spheres. And it's normally because I just run out of heals and get hammered into oblivion because i'm literally throwing everything at slowing them down so everyone else kills the transformers. Being dead lowers my DPS but my sacrifice saves everyone asses in those run soit doesn't bother me.
The treat gen mechanic in STO is a mystery to me i'll admit. When a sci boat can out aggro an escort or cruiser just by slinging a grav well you know it's not working very well. But more than anything you are correct in saying piling -TH consoles really only dumps the problem onto the poorest members of the pug, so it doesn't really solve the problem. What would be better would be if -TH stuff neutralised the threat, removing it from the game rather than just making you "hidden" so someone else get shot more.
Pretty much my experience too. Our playstyles/approaches are very, very similar with the Pathfinder.
The Sphere groups are the biggest challenge to stay alive for the Pathfinder in the scenario you mention. I've tried a lot of things:
Right now I'm using a combination of about 8 things to stay alive. From Starship traits to the humble Shield Battery. It really is a fun challenge.
I bet you could make DPS beasts of the Horizon/Hope/Olympic ships too
Thank you for the complement! I finally took the plunge into STO in April this year, after years of being curious about it.
My Captain has a weird quirk. If he doesn't fall in love with the looks of the ship, he's not as motivated to max it's potential.
So far he has successfully hidden from Starfleet Command this severe tendency towards "ship-ism". But if they ever find out, they may stick him on one of those ships as a Diversity training exercise
(EDIT: Of course he "IS" a Fleet Admiral - so he'd like to see Starfleet try and make him. LOL)
What's the best way to get the most out of it?
It's deflector based so will obviously share CD with other abilities, in this case GW3. But i've got a deflector CD doff so that should not be an issue.
Also i'm glad to see i'm not the only one mad enough to have a decent go as a tac in what is really quite a heavy sci boat.
I'll try to post my build on STO Academy tomorrow.
Feedback Pulse is not CD buffed by the DOFF, unfortunately - this is why I use a [SciCmdr] Deflector for the 10% Sci skill CD. But it still has it's uses.
I use FBP in the opener (I'm usually at 35K-40K overall dps at that point when the last of the first 4 spheres dies).
Depending on how fast/slow the PUG is (check via the "Mini" function of CombatLog Reader, which keeps dps up in a small window in real time), If I have time I use it on the left Cube area, and it should recharge by the time we make our first Sphere Charge.
I also use it on the second Cube, second Sphere Charge, sometimes the Gateway, and then the TAC Cube.
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A picture is worth 1,000 words. Here are 4 damage graphs of FBP in action all in one .jpg. Note the 4 very different damage profiles on each. FBP has many places to do damage depending on the team makeup and fight scenario.
http://i.imgur.com/eIDbIkE.jpg
Here is a description of the four graphs.
Bottom line - the FBP damage dealt out can come from a lot of different points in ISA.
I went into SB234 casually to get a sense of the landscape, got out - then took an average of the next three runs.
Pathfinder / USS Edgefarer - Results in SB234 Normal (my first 3 runs ever after seeing the instance/system) Exact same build as in the 35K ISA PUG run in the Original Post.
First Run: 21,790 DPS
http://i.imgur.com/2x2pelT.jpg
Second Run: 18,690 DPS
http://i.imgur.com/g0R2Akx.jpg
Third Run: 19,940 DPS
http://i.imgur.com/nLucwu8.jpg
My Pathfinder averages 20,140 DPS in solo Starbase 234, more than double your 10K threshold
I think that's not too bad for a 6 weapon slot, 2 Tac Console, Lt Tac BOFF Sci ship.... About half the damage done was Exotic based as well.
The Dauntless build I was running with a Tac captain is able to tank the Tac cube as well as the entirety of SB24 and still using ideas brought forth by this build thread.
Tanking these days is less about BO skills and more about traits and specific gear.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree somewhat to the above. A tanking Cruiser has many innate, passive "tank" bonuses just in it's Ship Mastery and skills. Bonus to resistance, innate healing, even the shield modulation. The Engr slots are still significant.
I agree that the greater traits and specific gear choices available post Delta Rising have allowed other ship classes to be more durable, closing the gap between the ship types, and even letting them take tremendous incoming fire for short periods of time (I do this on my Pathfinder often).
However, while a Pathfinder may tank "good enough", there is no statistical way a Pathfinder can tank "just as good" as say, a Guardian, given the same traits/gear. By their very design the tanking cruisers have skills built in that no Science ship can match.
Hey Veny. Gz on the results with the pathfinder on tac toon. I would like to add just a minor "clarity" because both in the thread name and now as stated from you the damage done by "exotic damage" may confuse a lot of players about your results. For example when I saw "50% damage dealt as exotic" I was like "wt..he rly made tons of "science powers" to deal a lot of damage on tac toon?"
No offense but from all parsers and the new ones its clear that huge part of your "exotic" damage is coming from the emission torpedo - which is totally fine. But for example the real "exotic" like your GW/TBR/FP and especially the deteriorating deflector - is lower in comparison with your beam/torpedo dot. I hope you will get my point and wont be offended or something. In the end its "dps" but better state that 35% of the damage was Emission torpedo and 15% exotic damage instead to say 50% all exotic
Aside from that nothing else to say - a sci ship with 4 tac abilities and even with 2 consoles but access to high end sci powers can/is doing great damage/dps for tactical toon. APA 50% total damage and ~46% severity for 30 sec, each ~1.3min is really something science toons can't afford. The Conservation of energy (30% exotic only) is good but its not 50% nor the crits (from PM trait) are going to get this ~46% damage. My point is the players using tactical toons with science ships should not be afraid of the loss of tac consoles or beam slots...you see the results of Veny are epic. After all the duty of tacs is to do damage and the best part is they can do it well with most ships.
See ya around for some runs mate.