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What's the obsession with Dilithium?

js26568js26568 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited November 2014 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
Every time there's even a hint that something is paying out too much Dilithium, it is killed instantly without even waiting for the next patch.

My question is... Why? We have a dilithium refining cap in place. If something gave me 5000000 unrefined dil right now, I wouldn't be saying "wow thanks" I'd be thinking "yet another thing to grind through" because it's not like I can spend it straight away.

So why does Cryptic care so much? Why do they give such a high priority to cutting off the supply of unrefined dilithium? Refining it is capped already, so why does it warrant shutting down entire sectors of the game or closing down STFs? Even the latest Daily Mark Box / Bonus Mark Weekend nerf is an indirect attempt to stop people having too many marks, because those marks can be turned into unrefined dilithium.

Why?
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Post edited by js26568 on

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    lyanaarlyanaar Member Posts: 148 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I think its a problem with people who have multiple chars...lets say you have 20 chars (more common than you think)...so thats 20x8000 dil per day

    160000 dil per day and then there is the dil <> zen exchange.

    current rate 1zen = 159 dil...so its a little more than 1000 zen per day you can make from playing alone.

    I have a char who has over 1mil unrefined dil from marks...now imagine people who have 20 or more chars...

    cheers
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    illyrian2008illyrian2008 Member Posts: 271 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    In short they messed it up and you have to suffer for it.
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    binebanebinebane Member Posts: 557 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    lyanaar wrote: »
    I think its a problem with people who have multiple chars...lets say you have 20 chars (more common than you think)...so thats 20x8000 dil per day

    160000 dil per day and then there is the dil <> zen exchange.

    current rate 1zen = 159 dil...so its a little more than 1000 zen per day you can make from playing alone.

    I have a char who has over 1mil unrefined dil from marks...now imagine people who have 20 or more chars...

    cheers
    they could make 1. st character can refine 12k dilithum second 11k third 10k... this would solve 20 charcter super grinders...
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    duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,870 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    js26568 wrote: »
    Every time there's even a hint that something is paying out too much Dilithium, it is killed instantly without even waiting for the next patch.

    The Voth and Undine Battlezones suggests otherwise. :P
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    varekraithvarekraith Member Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    lyanaar wrote: »
    I think its a problem with people who have multiple chars...lets say you have 20 chars (more common than you think)...so thats 20x8000 dil per day

    160000 dil per day and then there is the dil <> zen exchange.

    current rate 1zen = 159 dil...so its a little more than 1000 zen per day you can make from playing alone.

    I have a char who has over 1mil unrefined dil from marks...now imagine people who have 20 or more chars...

    cheers

    Which completely sucks for those of us who don't have, nor want,
    Dil alts.
    :rolleyes:
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    js26568js26568 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    duncanidaho11 wrote: »
    The Voth and Undine Battlezones suggests otherwise. :P

    Thankyou for your comment, no matter how little it actually affects what I said.
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    uryenserellonturyenserellont Member Posts: 858 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    What in this patch is making you think they're nerfing a dilithium payout? They did nerf the TRIBBLE out of STFs and only partly fixed it, but we still have voth and undine BZ which are the only two ways I farm dilithium, mostly voth.

    I'm just curious if I missed anything and they're nerfing dilithium somewhere.
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    grouchyotakugrouchyotaku Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    js26568 wrote: »
    ...
    So why does Cryptic care so much? Why do they give such a high priority to cutting off the supply of unrefined dilithium? Refining it is capped already, so why does it warrant shutting down entire sectors of the game or closing down STFs? Even the latest Daily Mark Box / Bonus Mark Weekend nerf is an indirect attempt to stop people having too many marks, because those marks can be turned into unrefined dilithium.

    Why?

    Dilithium Nerfs, aren't aimed at you, their aimed at the commercial 'Gold Farmer' accounts. (Dilithium->Zen->Keys->Lock Box items->sell for $$$)

    With a Dilithium Exploit, they can spend far less time per character/account, making it possible to manage many more 'F2P' accounts to do this...
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    mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    You also have to consider that this is the kind of "error" that is often easy to fix. So it gets fixed fast, because there is no big development or QA time needd. Where as somethnig that may be more serious is also harder to fix and requires more in depth-testing.


    Another reason may also be - daily refinement and daily gathering of limits means you log in daily. (Subscribers can circumvent the daily refinement limitation ,but not the gathering limitation). And logging in daily is probably good for Cryptic's business. People not logged into the game are unlikely to feel the desire for somethng aquirable for Zen, and even if thye do, are unlikely to go through the process of acquiring it outside the game. And if people go away for an extended amount of time, there is a good probability they don't come back at all, because what they spend their time on in the mean time may occupy their attention for longer.

    If you stop playing for 5 days because of all the Dilithium you gathered on one day, you may download another game, and play that instaed, and after 5 days, you may still want to keep playing that.


    In the end, a lot of MMO design seems to be about manipulation of people by triggering basic mechanism like our reactions to being "rewarded" (the level up "ding" as most basic example) and our perceptions of risk or cost (lockboxes!), how to get attention and what not.
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    mhirtescmhirtesc Member Posts: 581 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    binebane wrote: »
    they could make 1. st character can refine 12k dilithum second 11k third 10k... this would solve 20 charcter super grinders...

    And could get you winding up face-down in a ravine somewhere.
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    grouchyotakugrouchyotaku Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    binebane wrote: »
    they could make 1. st character can refine 12k dilithum second 11k third 10k... this would solve 20 charcter super grinders...

    And this doesn't address the issue of multiple 'F2P' accounts... as Lock Box/Lobi store items can be transferred between accounts...
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    pweistheworstpweistheworst Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    As others have said, I'm pretty sure the devs are trying to stop people who have lots of characters on their accounts from pooling massive amounts of Dilithium and hitting the Dilithium Exchange for easy Zen.

    Unfortunately, that makes all the other players feel like we're being punished with limited options for obtaining Dilithium simply because a smaller portion of the player population might take advantage of it.

    I suspect there has to be a better way of preventing players with multiple toons from flooding the exchange WITHOUT making all the other players feel like they are being screwed out of every opportunity to earn a decent quantity of unrefined Dilithium ore in a reasonable amount of time.
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    lawndart78lawndart78 Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    grouchyotaku wrote: »
    Dilithium Nerfs, aren't aimed at you, their aimed at the commercial 'Gold Farmer' accounts. (Dilithium->Zen->Keys->Lock Box items->sell for $$$)

    With a Dilithium Exploit, they can spend far less time per character/account, making it possible to manage many more 'F2P' accounts to do this...

    It's a good thing we have governments on this planet to teach us how all this works. Otherwise I'd be confused as to why I'm being punished for what someone else does.
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    qziqzaqziqza Member Posts: 1,044 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    grouchyotaku wrote: »
    Dilithium Nerfs, aren't aimed at you, their aimed at the commercial 'Gold Farmer' accounts. (Dilithium->Zen->Keys->Lock Box items->sell for $$$)

    With a Dilithium Exploit, they can spend far less time per character/account, making it possible to manage many more 'F2P' accounts to do this...

    Yup, pretty much every restrictive mechanic in game is designed to either, monetize something or circumvent 'commercial' farmers (cryptic cant figure any other way to curb them so we all suffer)
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    uthyeruthyer Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    This is just the sort of thread that will make the evil Cryptic overlords think "Hummmmm I know, lets put an expiration date on the Dilithum ore so they can't possibly refine what they collect, then they will have to buy zen the old fashioned way...with money!":eek::eek::eek:
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    swatopswatop Member Posts: 566 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    yes.... people have multiple chars and can refine multiple times this way
    but fact also is that they have multiple costs due to that
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    giveroffacialsgiveroffacials Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    duncanidaho11 wrote: »
    The Voth and Undine Battlezones suggests otherwise. :P

    Not for long now that you've mentioned it.:eek:
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    oldravenman3025oldravenman3025 Member Posts: 1,892 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    pweistheworst wrote: »
    As others have said, I'm pretty sure the devs are trying to stop people who have lots of characters on their accounts from pooling massive amounts of Dilithium and hitting the Dilithium Exchange for easy Zen.

    Unfortunately, that makes all the other players feel like we're being punished with limited options for obtaining Dilithium simply because a smaller portion of the player population might take advantage of it.

    I suspect there has to be a better way of preventing players with multiple toons from flooding the exchange WITHOUT making all the other players feel like they are being screwed out of every opportunity to earn a decent quantity of unrefined Dilithium ore in a reasonable amount of time.




    One thing that would help is to put a daily per-account limit on how much "free" Zen you can buy daily with dilithium.


    Of course, that wouldn't go over well.
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    glassguitarglassguitar Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    oldravenman3025 wrote: »
    One thing that would help is to put a daily per-account limit on how much "free" Zen you can buy daily with dilithium.


    Of course, that wouldn't go over well.

    The zen you buy on the exchange is BOUGHT BY PLAYERS WITH REAL MONEY and then sold to other players through the exchange. Cryptic/PWE make the EXACT SAME AMOUNT of money for that zen as they do for any other purchase.

    Why is this still not understood?
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    oldravenman3025oldravenman3025 Member Posts: 1,892 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    glassguitar wrote: »
    The zen you buy on the exchange is BOUGHT BY PLAYERS WITH REAL MONEY and then sold to other players through the exchange. Cryptic/PWE make the EXACT SAME AMOUNT of money for that zen as they do for any other purchase.

    Why is this still not understood?




    First off, I'm well aware that the Zen posted on the Exchange is purchased with real currency, thank you very much.


    However, the end-buyer doesn't spend a damned dime when exchanging dilithium for Zen.



    And your little rant was beside the point.


    The point is finding a balance between the ever increasing need for dilithium in-game and those who won't, or cannot afford to, use actual money for their Zen. It isn't about whether or not Cryptic makes money on the deal.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    One thing to consider is the effect it has on the game when there is NO incentive to actually spend dil. the dil ex slowly creeps upwards. Prior to the introduction of fleet bases, the dilex had actually managed to reach 400. Yes 400! It's a simple matter of balancing the desire of players to spend zen with their desire to spend dil.
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    darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    They have explicitly stated before that we're supposed to earn 2k raw dilithium per hour. Logically, they would nerf anything that gives more than that.
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    sitheachsitheach Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    It's all about getting us to buy their 120 delta pack, or several 30 dollar ships. It's all about that money.

    Players that have multiple alts can feasibly get 12000 zen in a months time no prob, gotta make that harder and de-incentive other players from doing the same thing. Pay meeeee
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    tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Easy fix... all missions award 8k dil but the limit is 8k per account... that's account.

    you just need to do 1 mission and your at cap... you can then forget about it and enjoy the game.

    over time they can readjust the dil cost down to reflect that change and for some things to remove the dil cost altogether.
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    claudiusdkclaudiusdk Member Posts: 561 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    The only real problem I got with Dil right now is all the things that require Dil.
    Currently my groups starbase isn't getting upgraded because everyone is saving Dil for item upgrades and the new rep system.

    I mean, Geez, come on Cryptic, how about lowering the dil requirements. 8000 per day isn't paying for starbase upgrades AND item/gear upgrades AND new reputation
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    stonewbiestonewbie Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    If someone gave me 5000000 unrefined dilithium i would actually think to myself 1) this will take 625 days to refine and 2) i wont have to grind anything on this toon for over a year and a half and so i can actually do activities that i find fun. If i had that much unrefined dil on several toons its the same thing with them. I wont have to grind and can instead focus on doing stuff that is fun.
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