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Current STF's Not a whine thread, but a valid incentive idea
gunganatorz
Member Posts: 1 Arc User
Yes there are alot of threads and moans about the STF's and their noptionals etc. I will not even comment on that, because that is something from a coding and game POV that will not drastically change.
However I do have one point to make, lack of rewards for any kind of win even on a failed STF.
What ever do I mean?
Look at most other MMO's with their Dungeons (STF's are kinda Dungeons in that respect) they have objectives and goals with finely balanced teams requirements blah blah.
They break down like this, you either beat it, or you don't.
A win = Set drop and gear etc.
A loss = Mob drops.
Not really got any difference there right, same sort of deal as the current Advanced and Elite STF's.
Well No their not. In most other MMO's if you failed the time or some other objective you don't get the set reward(s). However if there is a big end of dungeon boss, and you still kill them you get something of value
Let's look at Undine assault.
Complete it in 15 minutes for the marks and dil, fair enough.
Complete it in 15:01 and you get what? A green drop from killing the Planet Killer if you are lucky.
That gives you no reason to even try, because you feel you have wasted your time. That shouldn't be the case. It should be something more like the following.
Normal
under 15 minutes = reward of dill etc + chance of drop guranteed rare, possible very rare.
over 15 minutes but finish it = chance of drop guranteed rare, lesser chance of very rare than a win.
Advanced
under 15 minutes = reward of dill etc + chance of drop guranteed rare, possible very rare higher chance than normal win, possible Ultra.
over 15 minutes but finish it = chance of drop guranteed rare, possible very rare same chance as Normal win.
Elite
under 15 minutes = reward of dill etc + chance of drop guranteed very rare, possible ultra rare (higher chance) possible Epic.
over 15 minutes but finish it = chance of drop guranteed very rare, possible ultra rare same chance as advanced win.
You could easily apply this to all STF's and allow people to continue them should they fail the objectives. Because the way I see it now almost all the STF's have what would be considered the Dungeon boss, you know that last mob that always spawns, that's harder to kill than anything that came before it, So why no reward for doing at least that much?
What are the affects of implementing this idea?
People still feel their time has some value because they get something even for a failure. Nobody likes getting nothing for investing time in something.
As far as Dil, Marks and BNP's (for e.g) go, yes they get exactly what they get now. So no change there.
Maybe the reason they didn't finish is because they don't have end game gear. Now with a gear drop they can still improve their build and make bridging the gap between the people that have the elite gear easier.
The Biggest positive of this idea
People will be inclined to try doing the Advanced and Elite STF's knowing that even if they invest 40 minutes into the Undine Assault which is a rewardless fail currently. At the end of it they won't have the dil etc, but they have a chance of getting a really nice Very Rare or Ultra Rare.
Final thought
With the recent changes to STF's it could be argued you have given out the stick, But forgot the Carrot. There should always be a fair lesser reward for trying. And giving out a gear drop doesn't detract from the current economical model, it just makes people feel like their time has value. And happy people make happy customers, Happy customers spend more :P
However I do have one point to make, lack of rewards for any kind of win even on a failed STF.
What ever do I mean?
Look at most other MMO's with their Dungeons (STF's are kinda Dungeons in that respect) they have objectives and goals with finely balanced teams requirements blah blah.
They break down like this, you either beat it, or you don't.
A win = Set drop and gear etc.
A loss = Mob drops.
Not really got any difference there right, same sort of deal as the current Advanced and Elite STF's.
Well No their not. In most other MMO's if you failed the time or some other objective you don't get the set reward(s). However if there is a big end of dungeon boss, and you still kill them you get something of value
Let's look at Undine assault.
Complete it in 15 minutes for the marks and dil, fair enough.
Complete it in 15:01 and you get what? A green drop from killing the Planet Killer if you are lucky.
That gives you no reason to even try, because you feel you have wasted your time. That shouldn't be the case. It should be something more like the following.
Normal
under 15 minutes = reward of dill etc + chance of drop guranteed rare, possible very rare.
over 15 minutes but finish it = chance of drop guranteed rare, lesser chance of very rare than a win.
Advanced
under 15 minutes = reward of dill etc + chance of drop guranteed rare, possible very rare higher chance than normal win, possible Ultra.
over 15 minutes but finish it = chance of drop guranteed rare, possible very rare same chance as Normal win.
Elite
under 15 minutes = reward of dill etc + chance of drop guranteed very rare, possible ultra rare (higher chance) possible Epic.
over 15 minutes but finish it = chance of drop guranteed very rare, possible ultra rare same chance as advanced win.
You could easily apply this to all STF's and allow people to continue them should they fail the objectives. Because the way I see it now almost all the STF's have what would be considered the Dungeon boss, you know that last mob that always spawns, that's harder to kill than anything that came before it, So why no reward for doing at least that much?
What are the affects of implementing this idea?
People still feel their time has some value because they get something even for a failure. Nobody likes getting nothing for investing time in something.
As far as Dil, Marks and BNP's (for e.g) go, yes they get exactly what they get now. So no change there.
Maybe the reason they didn't finish is because they don't have end game gear. Now with a gear drop they can still improve their build and make bridging the gap between the people that have the elite gear easier.
The Biggest positive of this idea
People will be inclined to try doing the Advanced and Elite STF's knowing that even if they invest 40 minutes into the Undine Assault which is a rewardless fail currently. At the end of it they won't have the dil etc, but they have a chance of getting a really nice Very Rare or Ultra Rare.
Final thought
With the recent changes to STF's it could be argued you have given out the stick, But forgot the Carrot. There should always be a fair lesser reward for trying. And giving out a gear drop doesn't detract from the current economical model, it just makes people feel like their time has value. And happy people make happy customers, Happy customers spend more :P
Post edited by gunganatorz on
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Comments
if only there was reason for the players to continue to the end, so in the case of an stf greater marks and a borg neural processor instead of even greater marks two or three BNP and some dil for an outright win.
your idea smacks of the ideal solution to me.
the trouble is now some of the fail conditions are so minor they are almost unavoidable.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
However, adding a reward for trying is kind of insulting in a way. And it opens the door for PUG sit at the start and win AFK players. Which I firmly distaste.
If you want to play the mission and want a reward, lower the difficulty to where you can win and get reward.
A ship has 3-8 weapons, Engine/Deflector/Warp-singularity Core/Shield, 1-4 devices, 3-11 consoles, possibly a hangar or 2.
Omega Rep you want items to go in 2 of those slots. Try again.
How they get to that sort of setup can be buried in details, but it needs to happen. Failing the whole thing off a timer is encouraging the dps race game which is bad. Timers need to go away. The extra conditions need to be things like keeping an allied NPC alive or preventing the enemy from doing something or using sci/eng/tac skills somehow (undine had one of these that was neat, and mirror has a minor taste of diversity being useful with the faster close/powerup bonuses).
2-6 depending on your build...so 4-21 BNPs. Add another 30 if you want all 3 Engine/Deflector/Shield Sets. So...yeah...45-51 (Can't remember if the Ordnance set needed BNPs or not) BNPs for all things Space. Not including the 45 needed for the ground sets. A fresh 50 is A**ed out. So...90+ for them yea...try again.
KCB and Console are the only bits to get from Omega Rep, the rest isn't important or has better options to go in its place. And those two are Marks, Dil, and some pieces of vendor fodder for EC.
You could do an ASTF capable build from Mission Reward and realistically available loot drops.
put the advanced to run like the old elite and make the elite truly elite then everyone will be happy because everyone will have some processors and a few materials and can get on with things. If people want to intentionally fail something and sabotage it they will have to live through an elite run to do it.
the advanced ending and a pop up in my face when it fails its impossible to keep playing with the stupid consoles in your face and why would anyone .. when your told its over you leave lol
people aren't going to learn the content (and no normal is not a good indicator of what it will be like in advanced sorry to say each level has a different solution) with a big fail pup up 20 seconds into the thing ..
However the human in me will predict that then no one will ever play elite not even those wanting something harder because that is not what they want they want not really they will go into the advanced q's where they can cut and paste their parses
No doubt, A Step between the Stars and Sphere of Influence will get you started on everything you need for a solid build start. Not to mention a lot of the new ship traits may make the Assimilated Set Bonus obsolete, but the AMACO is nice for Torp Builds and some may want to stack the MACO set with the Xindi BoFF and Gel Pack Console.
I would be fine with the ASTFs as they are if Defera and Kobali provided the items for the rep gear like Dyson and Counter Command. Even more so if they allowed for at least Romulan and Nukara Reps could be started earlier, even Omega. This would give the entire player base access to at least some reps prior to level 50 and could be incorporated into the story lines rather easily. The make then rep gear MK Infinity until 50.
As you can put together an ASTF capable build and never go near an STF, it doesn't matter if Normal doesn't drop Rep special items, but that aside, your ideas do have merit. Personally, I would have kept the old Mk X versions, if all you wanted was the visuals you could easily do it.
ive just glanced through that wall of death text and its all just one big complaint, you dont like how the reward system is set out or the drops because it doesnt fit what your idea is and you feel the rewards are not good enough = complaint. the problem is that your thread is now invalided by shooting down by yourself and cryptic wont change it until they see fit to change it themselves.
your welcome to dream about sto changed, but your better off managing your expectations.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.