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Leave Advanced the Way It Was Pre-11/6 Patch

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  • hausofmartokhausofmartok Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    This is absolutely correct. Having rep gear behind a wall that the average STO player can't PUG is foolish in the extreme. If you enjoy a "challenge" its not hard to find.

    The exactly same can be said for crafting mats.

    Definitely agree on that point. Normal should award a BNP. You could do 1 BNP for norm, 2 for Adv., 3 for Elite. We're getting off topic here though, as this thread was not created to discuss rewards. I wanted to see who else was happy with the Advanced difficulty the way it was before the 11/6 patch. Difficulty here= Critter hit points & critter dmg.
  • clooney002clooney002 Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Haha, I can same the same to you buddy. Go play Normal! The last 2 weeks...hmmm well I did have some DvDs I had to return, then shampoo my hair, where does the time go? My point to the OP was to see who was for or against this and have intelligent discussion about it. If you can't manage that, keep your crazy rage to yourself.

    No you cant.."Buddy"


    Your thread title says this "Leave Advanced the Way It Was Pre-11/6 Patch"

    Mr. Obvious had you been paying attention to what has been happening since October 14 you would have noticed a big uproar about why Advanced ques needed nerfed..now after the patch has been released to hopefully address this very issue you pop out a thread like this. Im sorry but this thread has wrong timing written all over it. Dont wait until after they have made the change to bring this up. If I were a developer I would be like "seriously???"

    Threads like this would make any developer just give up. And guess what Einstein, we will be right back to them not communicating to us again because nothing they could ever do would satisfy anyone.

    All I can say is WOW, what nerve!
  • hausofmartokhausofmartok Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    clooney002 wrote: »
    No you cant.."Buddy"


    Your thread title says this "Leave Advanced the Way It Was Pre-11/6 Patch"

    Mr. Obvious had you been paying attention to what has been happening since October 14 you would have noticed a big uproar about why Advanced ques needed nerfed..now after the patch has been released to hopefully address this very issue you pop out a thread like this. Im sorry but this thread has wrong timing written all over it. Dont wait until after they have made the change to bring this up. If I were a developer I would be like "seriously???"

    Threads like this would make any developer just give up. And guess what Einstein, we will be right back to them not communicating to us again because nothing they could ever do would satisfy anyone.

    All I can say is WOW, what nerve!

    Calls me Mr. Obvious then quotes my own thread title back to me...:rolleyes:
    I was not part of the uproar over advanced queue difficulty. Those people did not represent all the players in the game and neither do you.
    Also, please don't confuse me with someone that's interested in hearing your opinion. Hostile as it is.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    just ran my first bug hunt on normal, it went so throughly bad im not considering a second attempt at it. all mark 12 kit across the board and a mk 14 dyson gun, none of it is the slightest bit effective against those ravagers. they were op before the nerf, they are still op.

    so licking my wounds as typical as a cat. im considering just leaving to the space aspect from this point.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    just ran my first bug hunt on normal, it went so throughly bad im not considering a second attempt at it. all mark 12 kit across the board and a mk 14 dyson gun, none of it is the slightest bit effective against those ravagers. they were op before the nerf, they are still op.

    so licking my wounds as typical as a cat. im considering just leaving to the space aspect from this point.

    I don't think they've touched ground.

    I ran 3 ISA and had good results - all finishing before the timer. Had one very fast Crystalline.
    Then 1 success (my first) and 2 failures on Borg Disconnected. For me that 3rd rescue 15 is pretty rough.

    I know there's a number of missions with problematic optionals - ie. very low to near complete failure rate. I hope they will look into this next. The Borg disconnected seemed to be letting us continue but ending it at the same time, so the mechanism is almost in place.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • clooney002clooney002 Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Calls me Mr. Obvious then quotes my own thread title back to me...:rolleyes:
    I was not part of the uproar over advanced queue difficulty. Those people did not represent all the players in the game and neither do you.
    Also, please don't confuse me with someone that's interested in hearing your opinion. Hostile as it is.

    Yeh obviously I did confuse you with a HUGE majority of the player base wanting the difficulty of Advanced ques equal to the pre-DR Elite ques.


    Oh wait..was I too hostile with this one? My bad............:D
  • casper32433casper32433 Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I definitely agree. Guess it's back to dropping my weapon power as low as it can go and stripping off some of my consoles to make the content challenging again. A shame, I was enjoying using high end gear to its fullest extent for a change.

    You know, this nerf was totally a better solution than putting the rep item and R&D rewards in Normal, wasn't it? A mid tier difficulty, what a load of nonsense.

    If you find advanced that easy than go to elite, plain and simple. People who don't have all the rep gear that you have need to be able to complete advanced to get the needed items to make rep gear. That was the entire reason for making an elite difficulty was for people like you that said the content was too easy. So quit whinning about how easy advanced is and go to elite where you belong.
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,481 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Pre-DR Elite was 2X the HP of Normal... for 1.75X the XP.

    If they want to boost Advance... they can boost it up to 2.25X or so the HP of Normal (3X the absolute max)

    Boost XP earned by 2X or 1.75X (the old XP modifier for pre-DR Elite) Thou if they boost XP to 2X, Elite will need an XP boost as welll...
  • casper32433casper32433 Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Calls me Mr. Obvious then quotes my own thread title back to me...:rolleyes:
    I was not part of the uproar over advanced queue difficulty. Those people did not represent all the players in the game and neither do you.
    Also, please don't confuse me with someone that's interested in hearing your opinion. Hostile as it is.

    If your not interested in hearing other peoples opinions then why did you ask for other people to comment. Sounds like your a little confused there.
  • xraiderv1xraiderv1 Member Posts: 479 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    they even told us that advanced would be like the old elite, just with objectives that are no longer optional. this is not like the old elite. this is bullet sponge territory.
    Murphy's laws:
    1- Murphy’s Law tells us that anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
    2- And anything that does go wrong will get progressively worse.
    3- And if you survive the first two laws it’s time to panic.
  • sinn74sinn74 Member Posts: 1,149 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    orondis wrote: »
    Advanced was playable already, just not for people who really should be in the normal queues.

    As for why I'm not doing elite, I don't do enough DPS for it. Hence why I stick to advanced. Don't hear me calling for a nerf to elite do you?

    ^^^This.

    "Advanced" is for people who are, um, "Advanced." If one is struggling on Normal, Or is unable to even handle FEs on Advanced difficulty, they shouldn't be jumping into "Advanced" queues. If they are, they're either completely clueless about their skill/build level, leeching off of other people for the rewards, or trolling.

    I hover around 20k. I won't go into an Elite and ruin it for 4 other people.
  • tyrannyfighter22tyrannyfighter22 Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I definitely agree. Guess it's back to dropping my weapon power as low as it can go and stripping off some of my consoles to make the content challenging again. A shame, I was enjoying using high end gear to its fullest extent for a change.

    You know, this nerf was totally a better solution than putting the rep item and R&D rewards in Normal, wasn't it? A mid tier difficulty, what a load of nonsense.

    The first part of your comment makes ZERO SENSE. You dont need to do anything like stripping off consoles or lowing weapon power, JUST QUE FOR THE ELITE MODE!

    It really is ridiculous that people say they want a hard mode and then complain that advanced is being made easier. These people shouldnt even be thinking about advanced. PLAY ELITE
  • dragonsbrethrendragonsbrethren Member Posts: 1,854 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    The first part of your comment makes ZERO SENSE. You dont need to do anything like stripping off consoles or lowing weapon power, JUST QUE FOR THE ELITE MODE!

    It really is ridiculous that people say they want a hard mode and then complain that advanced is being made easier. These people shouldnt even be thinking about advanced. PLAY ELITE

    My build isn't ready for elite yet. Guess I'm not allowed to have fun in the meantime. :rolleyes:

    -edit-

    Maybe this simplifies things enough. This is a good difficulty curve:

    Normal .......... Advanced .......... Elite

    What we're getting:

    Normal ... Advanced ................. Elite

    This makes Advanced worthless as practice for Elite (and nevermind Korfez, which doesn't even have Normal/Advanced for some asinine reason), since there is such a large gap between them. And if you keep getting your way, that gap gets wider.

    The solution here is to improve the rewards on Normal. That's all you want to play Advanced for, isn't it?
  • sanokskyratsanokskyrat Member Posts: 479 Media Corps
    edited November 2014
    NOPE.

    Thats for elite. This is for the middle player and we losing them because of the low rewards and the punishment of the game, which means no game.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJXYMDu6dpY
    1368747308047.cached_zpsl4joalbs.jpg
  • carlosbflycarlosbfly Member Posts: 681 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    My build isn't ready for elite yet. Guess I'm not allowed to have fun in the meantime. :rolleyes:

    Isn't that what you're happy to inflict on others though? Players who cannot possibly do Advanced, cannot therefore progress to decent builds for lack of the needed drops and stuck constantly failing Advanced missions. That is also not a lot of fun.

    I guess its okay for all those players to have no fun being forced onto the dead end queues of Normal as long you get what you want :rolleyes:
  • dragonsbrethrendragonsbrethren Member Posts: 1,854 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    carlosbfly wrote: »
    Isn't that what you're happy to inflict on others though? Players who cannot possibly do Advanced, cannot therefore progress to decent builds for lack of the needed drops and stuck constantly failing Advanced missions. That is also not a lot of fun.

    I guess its okay for all those players to have no fun being forced onto the dead end queues of Normal as long you get what you want :rolleyes:

    Maybe try reading more of my posts? I'm advocating improved rewards on Normal so we can have a decent difficulty curve in the queues. As opposed to dumbing down the Advanced mode so anyone can complete it like the old Elites. If you're not ready for Elite, you play Advanced, if you're not ready for Advanced, you play Normal. If you can still get the rep items and R&D mats on every difficulty, than the higher ones are just there to prove yourself. It's not a difficult concept.
  • trezlanlorentinotrezlanlorentino Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Honestly as someone who wants more people to do STF's with I prefer them to be easier so I can play with more people, see more ships, see more builds. That was the cool thing about Elites back in Pre Delta, you saw all kinds of different things and most of the time you were successful. Sorry I like to play my games for fun and not for frustration.
  • betayuyabetayuya Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    pop 60/ q leet for a challenge
    eywdK7c.jpg
  • carlosbflycarlosbfly Member Posts: 681 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Maybe try reading more of my posts? I'm advocating improved rewards on Normal so we can have a decent difficulty curve in the queues. As opposed to dumbing down the Advanced mode so anyone can complete it like the old Elites. If you're not ready for Elite, you play Advanced, if you're not ready for Advanced, you play Normal. If you can still get the rep items and R&D mats on every difficulty, than the higher ones are just there to prove yourself. It's not a difficult concept.

    You know for a fact they are never in a million years going to give away all the good stuff on a Normal mode. It won't happen. The game would fall apart with people literally cruising to get R&D mats and BNP against enemies who die in five seconds. At least on Advanced, there is some challenge without it being impossible for the majority of players (as of todays patch).
  • sinn74sinn74 Member Posts: 1,149 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    carlosbfly wrote: »
    Isn't that what you're happy to inflict on others though? Players who cannot possibly do Advanced, cannot therefore progress to decent builds for lack of the needed drops and stuck constantly failing Advanced missions. That is also not a lot of fun.

    I guess its okay for all those players to have no fun being forced onto the dead end queues of Normal as long you get what you want :rolleyes:

    1. Not being able to finish "Advanced" level queues does not keep anyone from buying fleet gear.

    And, you don't even need to be in a high level fleet, as there are channels where you can ask for access to top-tier resources.

    2. Doing the reputation projects normally will occasionally get you the drops to which you're referring.

    Can it be maddeningly slow? Yes. Although, I got enough from drops (only doing the new STFs on Normal) to purchase Delta rep gear within the first 3 days.

    3. One does not require a ton of rep and/or fleet gear to be useful in an Advanced queue.

    My science captain, in a science ship, with MKXI free gear from episodes, does around 15k DPS. And I'm nowhere near the greatest sci captain, trust me. :D
  • carlosbflycarlosbfly Member Posts: 681 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    sinn74 wrote: »
    1. Not being able to finish "Advanced" level queues does not keep anyone from buying fleet gear.

    And, you don't even need to be in a high level fleet, as there are channels where you can ask for access to top-tier resources.

    2. Doing the reputation projects normally will occasionally get you the drops to which you're referring.

    Can it be maddeningly slow? Yes. Although, I got enough from drops (only doing the new STFs on Normal) to purchase Delta rep gear within the first 3 days.

    3. One does not require a ton of rep and/or fleet gear to be useful in an Advanced queue.

    My science captain, in a science ship, with MKXI free gear from episodes, does around 15k DPS. And I'm nowhere near the greatest sci captain, trust me. :D

    The maddeningly slow bit is what it comes back to though - you're asking too much from players and they'll get frustrated, bored and ultimately walk away. Lets face it, this game is enough of an insane grind without making some poor fool go an even longer way around the block!
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    sinn74 wrote: »

    "Advanced" is for people who are, um, "Advanced."


    Wrong.

    Advanced is for Normal players.

    Elite is for Advanced Players.


    Normal players cannot properly progress by playing "normal" mode. Normal Mode has absolutely no function or purpose outside of a 'one off' mission you play once just to learn the layout of an STF.

    If Advanced is not enough of a challenge, play Elite, simple.

    And don't give me that whole 'just buy fleet gear' argument. A lot of people are either unable to go that route or they simply don't want to. Why cut off Rep Gear as an option? 'Just use something else' is a ridiculous excuse for a solution.

    The game caters to the majority, and the completely empty ques over the last 2 weeks tell you everything you need to know. If advanced were returned to pre 11/6 version, you and the OP would be happy and everyone else would quit.

    Just go play Elite and let the rest of us actually enjoy the game. The pre 11/6 Advanced Que sucked out loud.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • trezlanlorentinotrezlanlorentino Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    carlosbfly wrote: »
    The maddeningly slow bit is what it comes back to though - you're asking too much from players and they'll get frustrated, bored and ultimately walk away. Lets face it, this game is enough of an insane grind without making some poor fool go an even longer way around the block!

    Exactly, and for most that means they quit playing and the game dies. So if you like playing the game accept that difficulty will go down and not up just about every time. Even WoW got beat up when they went full dumb with Cata and que's for dps shot up into the 30 minute range.

    The longer it takes a casual to get something worthwhile to play the game, the less time they'll play, the less likely chance the game will stick around.
  • dragonsbrethrendragonsbrethren Member Posts: 1,854 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    sinn74 wrote: »
    1. Not being able to finish "Advanced" level queues does not keep anyone from buying fleet gear.

    And, you don't even need to be in a high level fleet, as there are channels where you can ask for access to top-tier resources.

    2. Doing the reputation projects normally will occasionally get you the drops to which you're referring.

    Can it be maddeningly slow? Yes. Although, I got enough from drops (only doing the new STFs on Normal) to purchase Delta rep gear within the first 3 days.

    3. One does not require a ton of rep and/or fleet gear to be useful in an Advanced queue.

    My science captain, in a science ship, with MKXI free gear from episodes, does around 15k DPS. And I'm nowhere near the greatest sci captain, trust me. :D

    3 cannot be stressed enough. Gear doesn't make the build. (Damn 15k, I envy you, I can't get my sci to do that -with- fleet gear. Just shows how much the captaining matters. :) )
  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,980 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    There is no reason to argue.

    Cryptic can look at the numbers.

    Right now a lot of people are avoiding everything but the normal play.

    Maybe they will keep their promise and reduce advanced to the old Elite.
  • sinn74sinn74 Member Posts: 1,149 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    carlosbfly wrote: »
    The maddeningly slow bit is what it comes back to though - you're asking too much from players and they'll get frustrated, bored and ultimately walk away. Lets face it, this game is enough of an insane grind without making some poor fool go an even longer way around the block!

    Um, what about 1 and 3?

    There are 3 solutions there. You chose one, ignored the others, and used impatience as a response, which I find invalid...don't you?
  • carlosbflycarlosbfly Member Posts: 681 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Wrong.

    Advanced is for Normal players.

    Elite is for Advanced Players.


    Normal players cannot properly progress by playing "normal" mode. Normal Mode has absolutely no function or purpose outside of a 'one off' mission you play once just to learn the layout of an STF.

    Now things are back to normal(ish), I predict Normal will pretty much die off and Advanced will be where everyone barring Elite where the really great players will gather. Which isn't bad now as the stronger players will carry teams more in Advanced and hopefully teach, letting weaker people contribute but not be a total liability. And they therefore will improve, pushed by a reasonable challenge and do the same teaching to later newcomers.

    I'd still prefer people use Normal for a few goes to learn the basics to be honest. Its what I did as I didn't want to go the next level without some basic tactics formed in my on mind. But alas, at least now we can get by again.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    carlosbfly wrote: »
    Now things are back to normal(ish), I predict Normal will pretty much die off and Advanced will be where everyone barring Elite where the really great players will gather. Which isn't bad now as the stronger players will carry teams more in Advanced and hopefully teach, letting weaker people contribute but not be a total liability. And they therefore will improve, pushed by a reasonable challenge and do the same teaching to later newcomers.

    I'd still prefer people use Normal for a few goes to learn the basics to be honest. Its what I did as I didn't want to go the next level without some basic tactics formed in my on mind. But alas, at least now we can get by again.

    Agreed 100%.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,980 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    carlosbfly wrote: »
    Now things are back to normal(ish), I predict Normal will pretty much die off and Advanced will be where everyone barring Elite where the really great players will gather. Which isn't bad now as the stronger players will carry teams more in Advanced and hopefully teach, letting weaker people contribute but not be a total liability. And they therefore will improve, pushed by a reasonable challenge and do the same teaching to later newcomers.

    I'd still prefer people use Normal for a few goes to learn the basics to be honest. Its what I did as I didn't want to go the next level without some basic tactics formed in my on mind. But alas, at least now we can get by again.

    Actually Advanced is still a bit hard.

    Why can't they just keep their promise and reduce it to the previous Elite level?
  • hausofmartokhausofmartok Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Wrong.

    Advanced is for Normal players.

    Elite is for Advanced Players.


    Normal players cannot properly progress by playing "normal" mode. Normal Mode has absolutely no function or purpose outside of a 'one off' mission you play once just to learn the layout of an STF.

    If Advanced is not enough of a challenge, play Elite, simple.

    And don't give me that whole 'just buy fleet gear' argument. A lot of people are either unable to go that route or they simply don't want to. Why cut off Rep Gear as an option? 'Just use something else' is a ridiculous excuse for a solution.

    The game caters to the majority, and the completely empty ques over the last 2 weeks tell you everything you need to know. If advanced were returned to pre 11/6 version, you and the OP would be happy and everyone else would quit.

    Just go play Elite and let the rest of us actually enjoy the game. The pre 11/6 Advanced Que sucked out loud.

    Wrong on almost all counts. Again. Normal is for normal players. Advanced is for advanced. It's really not a hard concept to grasp. People here just seem to refuse to step down to normal. These people used to steam roll elite and now can't steamroll advanced and are butthurt about it?
    Players can progress through normal. Please stop spreading all this misinformation. Normal stfs award Marks.
    Marks progress you through the rep. So to say it has no function is just a lie. The queues are not empty because of the difficulty, they're empty because of the rewards nerf so everyone went to battlezones or wherever else they thought was a better return on time.
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