Even if there is a bug involved, it is of such trivial value that it should not take any where near priority. Each referenced over preforming deviation also has other parts that could easily explain why those specific things are more powerful then expected. But then you also have many other things that seem to be far more OP, that have been known for a long time that never get touched and those get called as bugs and exploits as well. So why all the focus on altering the hanger pets now, especially when they have a history of never being OP to begin with and highly complained about being too weak? Especially with the fact that so little time has passed to even look into it?
Probably because of my aforementioned 'here and now' priority, and the fact that making hanger pets useful, while a good thing to pursue/consider, would take time and must be done properly if it is to be considered
That's just how it seems, sorry
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Ok, so they have around 80k hull pets. Even if it is an accident, it still highlights the need for hanger pets to be more useful and survivable, even if the current code needs to be replaced with something more controlled and less exploitable. But an all out down-scaling nerf isn't the answer. Pet survivability needs to stay up, not get pushed back down again.
Ok, so they have around 80k hull pets. Even if it is an accident, it still highlights the need for hanger pets to be more useful and survivable, even if the current code needs to be replaced with something more controlled and less exploitable. But an all out down-scaling nerf isn't the answer. Pet survivability needs to stay up, not get pushed back down again.
Replace the code? Unless I'm mistaken, to do that would require a whole new engine for STO... which would take far more effort than it's ultimately worth, on both sides
Edit: in response to your 'needs to go back to beta then', that's just not feasible, in any sense. And btw, if you can, edit your threads to include multi-replies of others into a single one; it's easier that way, and helps with the 5-min timer
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Probably because of my aforementioned 'here and now' priority, and the fact that making hanger pets useful, while a good thing to pursue/consider, would take time and must be done properly if it is to be considered
That's just how it seems, sorry
Well then this game needs to go back into beta then, cause they never followed through with that "take time and must be done properly," since launch and in just about ever patch and expansion they released. Which then ends up re-begging the question, why now with hanger and separation pets?
The timing is far to perfect for them to release epic hanger pets and new carriers, to be genuinely all about "fixing a bug the right way."
Replace the code? Unless I'm mistaken, to do that would require a whole new engine for STO... which would take far more effort than it's ultimately worth, on both sides
The hanger and separation pets are not the entire engine of the game. Those are going to have separate files. Likely going to be a file for each pet separately then a table to handle how data is extracted from the right files.
I never got the impression that my various hangar pets are overperforming. They die regularly and the only ones that seem to deal noteworthy amounts of damage are the elite bop pets and the elite attack ships, and only if those all attack the same target at the same time with all their abilities.
I noticed no change whatsoever at higher levels (50+) and I play a lot of carriers.
Seeing in the other thread that HP on NPCs is about to take a hit, I'm switching to a "wait and see" mode on this.
I don't need Danubes with as much hull as my Gal-X. With the incredibly buffed NPCs, it seemed that I "did". My ship doesn't deal a huge amount of damage. The pets are part of the overall picture, but not as large part of my strategy as flying a dedicated carrier would make them.
If NPCs aren't going to be so crazy, pets going back to what they were is OK by me.
Really in the long term, I hope for some AI improvements to both NPCs and pets, as alluded to in my previous post.
Well then this game needs to go back into beta then, cause they never followed through with that "take time and must be done properly," since launch and in just about ever patch and expansion they released. Which then ends up re-begging the question, why now with hanger and separation pets?
The timing is far to perfect for them to release epic hanger pets and new carriers, to be genuinely all about "fixing a bug the right way."
PEOPLE! WE HAVE BEEN PLAYING AND PAYING FOR BETA TEST THIS WHOLE TIME!!!
ROLF!!!
I don't know about you, but I paid for a LTS at Open Beta, and haven't paid a single cent since then - and it's been repaid ten times over, at the very least.
So I'm good, and okay with things
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
The Hangar Pets in STO are a little bit too strong.
My Elite Mesh Weaver did 25214,572 DPS (with photonic fleet etc. it was ~34,7k), sadly more than the average player :mad:. But I have to say, that was in a highly specialized run.
In my opinion, it's a proof, that pets are too overpowered. Nevertheless the AI have to be improved, because AI is very stupid.
It sounds like they are going to make the pets in question affected by the player's gear/stats, as they were not before
so would that mean they would get our resists and damage console modifiers? (assuming this is actually the case of course)
Possibly. That seems like a reasonable conclusion to me. the first thing I thought when I finished reading the statement was "Wait a sec... will this make my stuff less or MORE powerful?"
Possibly. That seems like a reasonable conclusion to me. the first thing I thought when I finished reading the statement was "Wait a sec... will this make my stuff less or MORE powerful?"
I guess people are in denial at the moment. Go back, read it again - the bit near the start is quite clear....
"these pets were using incorrect data that was causing their HP, shields, damage and healing to be too high."
see those last 2 words, "too high" - it's a nerf, not a buff. Pets will not get better, but worse.
I've never played with a ship that had saucer separation and I was strongly considering buying one last night. Glad I did not.
I've never played with the other ships either. Remind me too much of drones from Eve.
Anyway, why you nerf all the things...? Seriously, why..?! How is it that you are just now learning of all these "bad maths" in your code? It seems like every other day we learn something has required a nerf for the same reason you've given. I am just going to smh now.
A lot of people are just jumping on the hate bandwagon, without actually reading into what's been stated by Geko in this thread. He announced a fix to an obvious bug that should happen in 2 or 3 weeks. It's not about nerfing anything, it's about rectifying something that is broken and that received an unintended buff due to the level increase.
'An unintended buff due to the level increase.' Yeah, let's start with that.
Let the reality of what you just said sink in for a moment: difficulty increases... pets scale along accordingly... O, the horror! Seriously, it's like having an automated salary sytem which 'accidentally' corrects people's incomes for inflation. In other words, even if upscaling the pets was unintended, it's still the most natural thing to have happened.
I get it that a lot of carrier captains have complaints about the effectiveness of the carrier pets, but that's another discussion that should be opened with the devs.
Nope, it's the same discussion: allow pets to die on the spot again, and their effectiveness is immediately killed right along with it.
Ideally, of course, pets in general could be addressed elsewhere; but, let's be real here: the only thing that will happen, is that they'll nerf pets now, and then leave them unattended for the next 2 years. Many carrier pilots recognize that, of course.
The nerf to pets is needed. It is to correct a scaling bug.
My Pet has more hull then I do.
What of it?! Ever looked at the HP of a Borg Cube?! NPC's have this much HP, by design, because they're stupid; often downright suicidal, even. And they have no boffs to buff their resists and all. So, I submit to you, that a pet having more HP than you is The Right Thing. In fact, it's its *only* means of survival. Take that away, and you immediately break the entire pet ranking system too (= you can't rank up when you're dead).
Like I told shpoks, ideally there were an opportunity to sit down with the devs, and discuss pet A.I. But that won't happen. That is why Geko is not fixing anything, just adding more breakage.
It sounds like they are going to make the pets in question affected by the player's gear/stats, as they were not before
so would that mean they would get our resists and damage console modifiers? (assuming this is actually the case of course)
Your giving them to much credit...
right now pets are using the NPC tables for HP/Shieldsx/Resists & Dmg output... those tables were buffed up way way up for the increased difficulty. Oppps.
They are just going to code it so the player pets look up a different data table based on player levels instead of NPC levels.
I'm pretty sure you're exaggerating, because overall, the game is still playable in many cases
And if they don't listen, why is there a recent increase in communication?
Communication doesn't mean anything if there are not willing to fix whats been wrong with the game for months and months. Communication goes both ways, we give them bug reports and they just sit on there hands about them. I'v given up with bug reports since nothing is being done too fix the bugs we report DAILY!
Communication doesn't mean anything if there are not willing to fix whats been wrong with the game for months and months. Communication goes both ways, we give them bug reports and they just sit on there hands about them. I'v given up with bug reports since nothing is being done too fix the bugs we report DAILY!
Well, we can't exactly dictate to them what to fix, and when, and tailor what fixes do come and which don't when they work - it's a highly complex process, more than it appears to be, and merely reporting the bugs existence is often never enough (they need to be able to replicate it step-by-step at the least)
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Communication doesn't mean anything if there are not willing to fix whats been wrong with the game for months and months. Communication goes both ways, we give them bug reports and they just sit on there hands about them. I'v given up with bug reports since nothing is being done too fix the bugs we report DAILY!
Wow, I'd forgotten you can submit bug reports - Having KDF as my main, I found out very quickly that bug reports are ignored. I have not done one of those since before F2P came in.
Last time I looked, my bridge offices farting on my bridge still drops my cloak in my B'rel. Some encounter timers still start before I've even started the encounter (in my B'rel only). And the fleet version is T5 and needs 5 fleet modules even though the Romulan version of the same ship is T1 for 4 modules.
Yea, I have tons of faith in the Devs and PWE
I have an new bug report to submit - the people who run this game are broken, needs urgent patch in Cryptic and PWE HQ CEO offices. :P
Admittedly I am not set up for it, but what if people caught some of the bad behavior on video? Adorenko is doing that, for instance, in his Top 5 Bugs video. Maybe that could help the devs if they could watch the problems in action.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
admittedly I Am Not Set Up For It, But What If People Caught Some Of The Bad Behavior On Video? Adorenko Is Doing That, For Instance, In His Top 5 Bugs Video. Maybe That Could Help The Devs If They Could Watch The Problems In Action.
Post It Plz
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] DELTA RISING FIXS THERE NEVER COMING WHY I'M I WASTING MY TIME ASKING FOR THEM ???
Well, we can't exactly dictate to them what to fix, and when, and tailor what fixes do come and which don't when they work - it's a highly complex process, more than it appears to be, and merely reporting the bugs existence is often never enough (they need to be able to replicate it step-by-step at the least)
Yeah we can dictate, we play the game and pay for it. If they want more cash they should listen to the players.
Yeah we can dictate, we play the game and pay for it. If they want more cash they should listen to the players.
We can dictate within reason, yes; but it doesn't give us the right to tell them how to run anything/everything of their practices (nothing gives us that right, because it just makes us look like selfish jerks). Suggest, yes, but not demand
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
We can dictate within reason, yes; but it doesn't give us the right to tell them how to run anything/everything of their practices (nothing gives us that right, because it just makes us look like selfish jerks). Suggest, yes, but not demand
I agree with we can too a point, its just frustrating that there nerfing my carrier that i have spent millions of EC on, Getting bugs ships for it and gearing it.
We can a least dictate too them on want not too do to upset more then half the player base
I agree with we can too a point, its just frustrating that there nerfing my carrier that i have spent millions of EC on, Getting bugs ships for it and gearing it.
We can a least dictate too them on want not too do to upset more then half the player base
Well, as far as I understand it, they're only nerfing the over-scaling aspect, not the usual values pets would have at lvl 60. So really, they're only getting worse when compared to the benefits of this bug - but when compared to before that, they're slightly better than before (lvl 60 compared to lvl 50)
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Well, we can't exactly dictate to them what to fix, and when, and tailor what fixes do come and which don't when they work - it's a highly complex process, more than it appears to be, and merely reporting the bugs existence is often never enough (they need to be able to replicate it step-by-step at the least)
Trek21, why can't we? We put bread on the dev's tables. A vessel-in this case the vessel is STO-cannot function without its crew. Now, while the crew COULD be the devs, the devs wouldn't HAVE a vessel to run unless they have US. And they are losing US with the bugs and issues that we report and their inaction to fix the issues and bugs that we report.
Now, I know that to expect the game to be bug free and issue free is impossible. But with what they are doing, and then this?
Again, we put the bread on their tables. Without us, there is no bread for them.
One would think that you would see that if we DON'T report this, and say nothing, that that would not happen. No one wants to play a game that is so far broken you can't do anything.
Comments
Just took these to show you he isn't targeting his ship.
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198033679433/screenshots
That's just how it seems, sorry
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Ok, so they have around 80k hull pets. Even if it is an accident, it still highlights the need for hanger pets to be more useful and survivable, even if the current code needs to be replaced with something more controlled and less exploitable. But an all out down-scaling nerf isn't the answer. Pet survivability needs to stay up, not get pushed back down again.
Edit: in response to your 'needs to go back to beta then', that's just not feasible, in any sense. And btw, if you can, edit your threads to include multi-replies of others into a single one; it's easier that way, and helps with the 5-min timer
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Well then this game needs to go back into beta then, cause they never followed through with that "take time and must be done properly," since launch and in just about ever patch and expansion they released. Which then ends up re-begging the question, why now with hanger and separation pets?
The timing is far to perfect for them to release epic hanger pets and new carriers, to be genuinely all about "fixing a bug the right way."
The hanger and separation pets are not the entire engine of the game. Those are going to have separate files. Likely going to be a file for each pet separately then a table to handle how data is extracted from the right files.
I noticed no change whatsoever at higher levels (50+) and I play a lot of carriers.
I don't need Danubes with as much hull as my Gal-X. With the incredibly buffed NPCs, it seemed that I "did". My ship doesn't deal a huge amount of damage. The pets are part of the overall picture, but not as large part of my strategy as flying a dedicated carrier would make them.
If NPCs aren't going to be so crazy, pets going back to what they were is OK by me.
Really in the long term, I hope for some AI improvements to both NPCs and pets, as alluded to in my previous post.
This game went never out of the beta
HAH! HAHAHAHAHA!!!
No, no it hasn't!
PEOPLE! WE HAVE BEEN PLAYING AND PAYING FOR BETA TEST THIS WHOLE TIME!!!
ROLF!!!
So I'm good, and okay with things
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
My Elite Mesh Weaver did 25214,572 DPS (with photonic fleet etc. it was ~34,7k), sadly more than the average player :mad:. But I have to say, that was in a highly specialized run.
In my opinion, it's a proof, that pets are too overpowered. Nevertheless the AI have to be improved, because AI is very stupid.
Parser: CombatLogReader (CLR)
My character Tsin'xing
I guess people are in denial at the moment. Go back, read it again - the bit near the start is quite clear....
"these pets were using incorrect data that was causing their HP, shields, damage and healing to be too high."
see those last 2 words, "too high" - it's a nerf, not a buff. Pets will not get better, but worse.
You know, in the mirror universe Cryptic actually will fix real issues with the game before players have to report them for years on end
clearly the issue is with the mesh weavers not others you posted geko https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iepSJT4tKQ
this is pointless cryptic in this universe is a brick wall :mad::mad::mad:
keep going with post and patches like these your game is almost unplayable...
DELTA RISING FIXS THERE NEVER COMING WHY I'M I WASTING MY TIME ASKING FOR THEM ???
And if they don't listen, why is there a recent increase in communication?
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I've never played with a ship that had saucer separation and I was strongly considering buying one last night. Glad I did not.
I've never played with the other ships either. Remind me too much of drones from Eve.
Anyway, why you nerf all the things...? Seriously, why..?! How is it that you are just now learning of all these "bad maths" in your code? It seems like every other day we learn something has required a nerf for the same reason you've given. I am just going to smh now.
Firesworn Nation (@rswfire) - https://www.firesworn.com
'An unintended buff due to the level increase.' Yeah, let's start with that.
Let the reality of what you just said sink in for a moment: difficulty increases... pets scale along accordingly... O, the horror! Seriously, it's like having an automated salary sytem which 'accidentally' corrects people's incomes for inflation. In other words, even if upscaling the pets was unintended, it's still the most natural thing to have happened.
Nope, it's the same discussion: allow pets to die on the spot again, and their effectiveness is immediately killed right along with it.
Ideally, of course, pets in general could be addressed elsewhere; but, let's be real here: the only thing that will happen, is that they'll nerf pets now, and then leave them unattended for the next 2 years. Many carrier pilots recognize that, of course.
What of it?! Ever looked at the HP of a Borg Cube?! NPC's have this much HP, by design, because they're stupid; often downright suicidal, even. And they have no boffs to buff their resists and all. So, I submit to you, that a pet having more HP than you is The Right Thing. In fact, it's its *only* means of survival. Take that away, and you immediately break the entire pet ranking system too (= you can't rank up when you're dead).
Like I told shpoks, ideally there were an opportunity to sit down with the devs, and discuss pet A.I. But that won't happen. That is why Geko is not fixing anything, just adding more breakage.
Your giving them to much credit...
right now pets are using the NPC tables for HP/Shieldsx/Resists & Dmg output... those tables were buffed up way way up for the increased difficulty. Oppps.
They are just going to code it so the player pets look up a different data table based on player levels instead of NPC levels.
Communication doesn't mean anything if there are not willing to fix whats been wrong with the game for months and months. Communication goes both ways, we give them bug reports and they just sit on there hands about them. I'v given up with bug reports since nothing is being done too fix the bugs we report DAILY!
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Wow, I'd forgotten you can submit bug reports - Having KDF as my main, I found out very quickly that bug reports are ignored. I have not done one of those since before F2P came in.
Last time I looked, my bridge offices farting on my bridge still drops my cloak in my B'rel. Some encounter timers still start before I've even started the encounter (in my B'rel only). And the fleet version is T5 and needs 5 fleet modules even though the Romulan version of the same ship is T1 for 4 modules.
Yea, I have tons of faith in the Devs and PWE
I have an new bug report to submit - the people who run this game are broken, needs urgent patch in Cryptic and PWE HQ CEO offices. :P
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Post It Plz
DELTA RISING FIXS THERE NEVER COMING WHY I'M I WASTING MY TIME ASKING FOR THEM ???
Yeah we can dictate, we play the game and pay for it. If they want more cash they should listen to the players.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I agree with we can too a point, its just frustrating that there nerfing my carrier that i have spent millions of EC on, Getting bugs ships for it and gearing it.
We can a least dictate too them on want not too do to upset more then half the player base
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Trek21, why can't we? We put bread on the dev's tables. A vessel-in this case the vessel is STO-cannot function without its crew. Now, while the crew COULD be the devs, the devs wouldn't HAVE a vessel to run unless they have US. And they are losing US with the bugs and issues that we report and their inaction to fix the issues and bugs that we report.
Now, I know that to expect the game to be bug free and issue free is impossible. But with what they are doing, and then this?
Again, we put the bread on their tables. Without us, there is no bread for them.
One would think that you would see that if we DON'T report this, and say nothing, that that would not happen. No one wants to play a game that is so far broken you can't do anything.