My "main" most-played character has earned 20 spec points; with a little bad math I figure that's about 900k XP (plus about 1.2 million expertise) since the release of DR.
So far, I have been able to maintain a pace of one point per day. I plan to try to maintain this pace until I hit 30 points and have two traits unlocked. After that, I'm probably going to earn them at a much slower rate (I'm also going to save them for a future specialization).
You're welcome to your opinion but I do not share it. There are many similarities between the two...on a functional level. I do agree the upgrade system is massively prohibitive and I am hopeful they will address that.
I entered this conversation because I think the mindset is wrong. Why do you want everything right now? The PvP'ers say they need it to remain competitive; fine, let them think that. You say you need it so you don't feel handicapped to other players...? Not everyone is in a rush to max out the spec tree. It's not even a reasonable strategy. It's about time this game added some elements that actually took some time and effort to earn. What's the point if everything is just handed to you?
ok this is last one for me im done with this after this post. the point of it is because some people think its fun. nothing more. no great mystery in the reason why. now you can the thinking is wrong all you want but you cant determine what is fun for everybody. now if you are not in a rush fine. if you in a rush and willing to grind it out that should be fine.
I've been playing Eve for three years. If it has taught me anything, it's that skill points (or in this case, spec points) are not what make a person competitive, competent, and able to compete.
I agree they add advantages but I can assure you that someone creative can be very effective despite all of these things you mention. STO has never had balanced PvP. But then again, I can't think of any game that really does. Play to your strengths and find ways to counter these other things. Sure, it might even be a challenge...but is that not the point to PvP anyway?
and in your own comment you made my point play on your own strengths.for some people that strength is passive abilities.
Sure I can. Not everything requires or even deserves explanation. However, I did add some context above. In this case, I hear a very common complaint/misconception from people who think PvP is only possible when you have everything. >.>
some do belive that . my point was that just because people here did not feel they needed it they should not bash somebody who does. its that simple.
and to that person with 45 toons wow just wow they must all get played allot. i mean with 45 of them you get just over 30 min of play time on each one every 24 hour day. but if you eat sleep go to bathroom ir say hello to a person in real life sometime you are gimping one of your alts. so in your case its already a given you dont care about serious toon development, any possible argument to the contray just is not possible unless the world you live in has allot more hours than mine does.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
ok this is last one for me im done with this after this post. the point of it is because some people think its fun. nothing more. no great mystery in the reason why. now you can the thinking is wrong all you want but you cant determine what is fun for everybody. now if you are not in a rush fine. if you in a rush and willing to grind it out that should be fine.
Perfectly reasonable answer, so it becomes an issue of finding a balance that everyone can live with. I've already said in this topic that I felt the XP nerf is too much and that's really the source of the issue we're talking about.
I agree they add advantages but I can assure you that someone creative can be very effective despite all of these things you mention. STO has never had balanced PvP. But then again, I can't think of any game that really does. Play to your strengths and find ways to counter these other things. Sure, it might even be a challenge...but is that not the point to PvP anyway?
You're wrong. The combat here is your toon clicks a button and the ship does the rest. All the buffs are to the math where the game plays itself. There's not really anything you can do except click buttons better than the other guy, while the automated combat gets all the benefits and that party makes a huuge difference when the maths are buffed.
You're wrong. The combat here is your toon clicks a button and the ship does the rest. All the buffs are to the math where the game plays itself. There's not really anything you can do except click buttons better than the other guy, while the automated combat gets all the benefits and that party makes a huuge difference when the maths are buffed.
I'm not wrong, but you are. And here is why:
The combat here is your toon clicks a button and the ship does the rest.
The combat here is your toon clicks a button and the ship does the rest.
LMFAO!
Oh you're one of those. Look at everything APA does--all you do is keep the target in firing arc, look how much the game does for you. Spec points all add to the 99% that the game does for you. Two people can both click APA button. One of them has twice the benefits from APA ... and he flies better too because he has the Attack Pattern spec boosts. Thats how it is here.
Oh you're one of those. Look at everything APA does--all you do is keep the target in firing arc, look how much the game does for you. Spec points all add to the 99% that the game does for you. Two people can both click APA button. One of them has twice the benefits from APA ... and he flies better too because he has the Attack Pattern spec boosts. Thats how it is here.
The only thing I am is someone who understands you are more than the sum of your skills.
You are missing my point in everything that I have said. I don't deny that pressing buttons initiates skills that give you boosts and perform other helpful functions and that it can all be broken down into a numbers game.
But that's not PvP. That's just math.
You're not thinking about the human element. That's far more important. Look, this is a really stupid argument and I'm not about to have it with anyone here...especially in a game like STO where the PvP itself is a giant cosmic joke to start with.
My only point has been: You do not need to have every freakin' spec point right now to play your little PvP games!
Somehow I think the exp nerf is bad for business because people will revert to 1 character which means buying only for 1 faction.
Cryptic Product Managers please take note.
By all means. Some genius in cryptic made the wrong decision here...specially with the great NERFING...not a good time to test it out whether players would buy it.
My alts have never really been main characters that I played for more than a bit of flavor or resource hounds. I really feel for those who actually split their play time evenly across their alts. The R&D system (the traits at least) and spec trees are definitely alt-unfriendly. At the same time though, you're not meant to have a maxed spec tree in a hurry. If you had a fresh level 50, how long would it take you to max all of the Reputations without a sponsorship token (since you'd need to play content for marks from multiple sources)? It's like the next level of reputations because we know more specializations will be forthcoming.
R&D really isnt problem. 5 minutes a day and doing that one year. its for one or for 10 characthers it wont take much time.
The R&D system (the traits at least) and spec trees are definitely alt-unfriendly.
The traits in the R&D system are the most alt-friendly part of all the new stuff.
I have 10 toons all with 5 schools at level 15 (and the 5 that make sense for their builds) without spending any dilithium (actually that is a lie - I lost about 20k dil from pressing finish now by mistake a few times - CONFIRM WINDOW PLEASE.
Spec trees are definitely alt unfreindly - altho the same 10 toons are now all lvl 60 and I have only been playing the new content on 3 of them (the rest have been doffing). So I guess eventually I will fill them out.
The thing that really sucks the life out of my alts is the Gear upgrade system. It is just TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE to kit out everyone. If they aren't geared I won't play them properly and if I don't play them properly I won't buy them other stuff.
Cryptic doesn't intend for everyone to grind out full trees on all their alts. Having the continued skill points was intended as a way to continue to reward you for playing the game once you hit max level (in particular since there is nothing above Fleet Admiral or Dahar Master for them to raise the level cap to now...) I.e. you're max level, a new set of feature episodes come out, by doing them you earn a couple more skill points, or you start working on your Diplomacy by Doffing, and you earn a couple more skill points, or you pvp, and earn a couple more skill points. They're there for people who don't play a ton of toons so that they don't hit 60 on everyone and say, "Okay, my STO characters are done, time to go play _______ instead."
Now, all that said, it is certainly true that the type of person who is uber-dedicated to pvp in this game, minmaxing builds etc., is exactly the type of person who will go grind out full skill trees as fast as possible to get an edge in PVP. Its true that skill is more important than build, but the people willing to invest that much time in grinding for an edge, also tend to be people who have spent a lot of time honing their skill.
Comments
So far, I have been able to maintain a pace of one point per day. I plan to try to maintain this pace until I hit 30 points and have two traits unlocked. After that, I'm probably going to earn them at a much slower rate (I'm also going to save them for a future specialization).
ok this is last one for me im done with this after this post. the point of it is because some people think its fun. nothing more. no great mystery in the reason why. now you can the thinking is wrong all you want but you cant determine what is fun for everybody. now if you are not in a rush fine. if you in a rush and willing to grind it out that should be fine.
Eve thats like apples and oranges. come on now.
wow golf clap for you. now don't you feel special.
and in your own comment you made my point play on your own strengths.for some people that strength is passive abilities.
some do belive that . my point was that just because people here did not feel they needed it they should not bash somebody who does. its that simple.
and to that person with 45 toons wow just wow they must all get played allot. i mean with 45 of them you get just over 30 min of play time on each one every 24 hour day. but if you eat sleep go to bathroom ir say hello to a person in real life sometime you are gimping one of your alts. so in your case its already a given you dont care about serious toon development, any possible argument to the contray just is not possible unless the world you live in has allot more hours than mine does.
Time will only tell!
Perfectly reasonable answer, so it becomes an issue of finding a balance that everyone can live with. I've already said in this topic that I felt the XP nerf is too much and that's really the source of the issue we're talking about.
In almost every way, yes, absolutely. I was being very specific to one thing: skills do not make winners.
Firesworn Nation (@rswfire) - https://www.firesworn.com
I'm not wrong, but you are. And here is why:
The combat here is your toon clicks a button and the ship does the rest.
LMFAO!
Firesworn Nation (@rswfire) - https://www.firesworn.com
Oh you're one of those. Look at everything APA does--all you do is keep the target in firing arc, look how much the game does for you. Spec points all add to the 99% that the game does for you. Two people can both click APA button. One of them has twice the benefits from APA ... and he flies better too because he has the Attack Pattern spec boosts. Thats how it is here.
The only thing I am is someone who understands you are more than the sum of your skills.
You are missing my point in everything that I have said. I don't deny that pressing buttons initiates skills that give you boosts and perform other helpful functions and that it can all be broken down into a numbers game.
But that's not PvP. That's just math.
You're not thinking about the human element. That's far more important. Look, this is a really stupid argument and I'm not about to have it with anyone here...especially in a game like STO where the PvP itself is a giant cosmic joke to start with.
My only point has been: You do not need to have every freakin' spec point right now to play your little PvP games!
Firesworn Nation (@rswfire) - https://www.firesworn.com
By all means. Some genius in cryptic made the wrong decision here...specially with the great NERFING...not a good time to test it out whether players would buy it.
The traits in the R&D system are the most alt-friendly part of all the new stuff.
I have 10 toons all with 5 schools at level 15 (and the 5 that make sense for their builds) without spending any dilithium (actually that is a lie - I lost about 20k dil from pressing finish now by mistake a few times - CONFIRM WINDOW PLEASE.
Spec trees are definitely alt unfreindly - altho the same 10 toons are now all lvl 60 and I have only been playing the new content on 3 of them (the rest have been doffing). So I guess eventually I will fill them out.
The thing that really sucks the life out of my alts is the Gear upgrade system. It is just TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE to kit out everyone. If they aren't geared I won't play them properly and if I don't play them properly I won't buy them other stuff.
= less Zen sales to me.
...#LLAP...
You mean more broken than it has been since launch almost 5 years ago, or...?
Now, all that said, it is certainly true that the type of person who is uber-dedicated to pvp in this game, minmaxing builds etc., is exactly the type of person who will go grind out full skill trees as fast as possible to get an edge in PVP. Its true that skill is more important than build, but the people willing to invest that much time in grinding for an edge, also tend to be people who have spent a lot of time honing their skill.