I fly Scimitar\Elite Drones, JH Dread\ELite Fighters and Recluse\Mesh Weavers... I love carriers.. I had Elite Swarmers for some time in Scimitar's hangar but dropped them because of very low survivability. Actually they were quite useless. I wanted them only because I use AP beams and wanted to have same energy type pets. Then I switched to Elite Romulan Drones which were better but still I have to redeploy them several times in ISA. On Sunday I flew my Jem Dread with Jem Fighters in Mirror Invasion Normal and I was surprised how quickly my JH Fighters were being killed... I mean... it was normal difficulty level?!
I hope you guys know what you're doing. I love STO. I learned to accept and live with your decisions but If this change messes up my joy flying carriers it could be a definite showstopper for me. You know, I've been asking myself why I'm still here while I'm getting frustrated so often instead of enjoying the game, and still paying for it. Nerfing reputations, nerfing skillponts, crafting rarity upgrades once in a blue moon (gave up after 4 upgrades with rarity catalysts for one MK XIV beam failed)... leveling and specializations are now real pain... I don't even think about specializations anymore. And at some point one will have to say to himself no matter how much he loves the game or atmosphere or how much he is addicted... The line must be drawn here! This far, no further!
I'll chime in with the rest saying I like the pets where they are! They don't die on launch, and actually work! The main issue of them doing more damage than the players ship is kind of the point of having them! Isn't it? After all planes ARE the primary (most damaging) weapon system on carriers now...
Like others I'm resigned on this, but not happy.
A 10% reduction? Fine, maaaaaaaybe a15% might not be out of hand! but any more than that you may as well convert them into a fireworks device set that gives the carrier a 20% reduction in hull on use (this simulates the pets warp core breach on death when they are launched)
I just did another test using Advanced Romulan Drones, and I am still think nerfing hanger pets is bull.
So there base Hull was 87133... So what? Arn't all NPCs usually higher hull anyways to compensate for their combined lack of DPS and lack of intelligence? They only have 3 Beam arrays and 1 torp.
these are still the numbers I saw from them.
Beam Overload 2: 6174(7179)
Disruptor Beam:
1383
2631 (crit)
1222
1194
With both of them out, it still took them some time to kill the Nassicans in Japori. I must have been in there roughly 10 times longer then I would have, if I was firing at them and not making the hanger pets do all the work.
BUT HEY! if they base it on gear, maybe this will be an upgrade for me? I got Mk 14 ultra-rare weapons and epic consoles. Perhaps I will see 3000+ hits and 6000 crits form them now!
But then again, this is Japori on normal we are talking about, not the new DR content and not on Advanced or Elite difficulty. Just old LoNR normal difficulty Japori.
Let's also keep in mind, that nerfing pets again almost immediately breaks the ranking system! (= can't rank up when you're dead on launch).
So, whereas I am suspicious about this entire nerf to begin with (as I think the high hull was actually a 'working as intended' mechanism to counter the lack of survivability to begin with), nerfing our pets will make em never see a single star, guaranteed.
And what's the betting they'll make us pay an over inflated cost by making us go through the crafting system. Now there's an idea. Geko why not add carrier pets as another crafting school? Another way to monetize sto and increase the dilithium sink whilst your at it. Off course you'll have leave out the Jem'Hadar attack ship pets purely to protect that cash cow.
And what's the betting they'll make us pay an over inflated cost by making us go through the crafting system. Now there's an idea. Geko why not add carrier pets as another crafting school? Another way to monetize sto and increase the dilithium sink whilst your at it. Off course you'll have leave out the Jem'Hadar attack ship pets purely to protect that cash cow.
If so, boys and girls, remember, you heard it here first. Cuz I think that's *exactly* what's coming.
-Sigh- I give up...you know there will be no changes despite what we say, so I'm just going to sit back and watch sto burn whilst I continue to gather (minimall) enjoyment from the game for free as I give them nothing in return but time
It seems the devs are hell bent on destroying the game in pursuit of numbers and metrics from the experiments to introduce sub-korean grind mechanics into a western stylised game - In either case, if I drop sto or sto drops me, all my zen, ect will be unused as I'll never head for a pwe nor cryptic game, not even if they brought out a giant robot battle mmo with space battles.
I am too tired of the game breaking bad bugs not getting fixed and watching thigns that help us have fun getting nerfed. My feeling of burn out this time is feeling like it is gaining a critical mass to it this time.
Previous times I left this game based on burn out, didn't have this feeling of reaching critical mass.
Other MMOs where I felt this coming on, I did reach that point and have not gone back to them.
I have been looking at Star Citizen for a little while. Aftyer completing the DR story mission and getting to 60, I been feeling burnt out on STO again. The feeling of reaching critical mass was occurring before Halloween. Now we are seeing another hit to content?
It really seems like this isn't about money. It seems more like a wide spread experiment in group psychology.
If it was about money, then concerns about customer satisfaction would have them fixing a lot of the bugs they have ignored for years. Other MMOs whose focus is money, fix the bugs this game doesn't.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
I'm not sure what "actions" you're talking about, or what we shouldn't be "distracted" from.
lol
Probably secret mooslams!
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Really i don't know why im bothering to post as the powers that be ignore everything apart from a small minority who spend their entire salary's playing the game .
Firstly you nerf the game and levels that were playable and instead of adding new exciting levels that will make a nice challenge -- and would be no open teaming due to the "pug" factor - you nerf it ruining a large portion of fun for players and players who were developing thier toons to be competitive.
especially if you was carrying a lower dps player in your team for example a sci whos abilities were not in weaponry or a healing engi,
and for yourself to get back to what you was able to do previously in your role you have to pay out in dilithium and materials in the hope you get a rare bonus on your item unless of course you spend thousands upon thousands on one item till it does achive the required bonus.
Pets as of late were providing a distraction for certain stfs eg disconnected allowing you to help the borg escape although regularly blew up when fighting cubes ,also in some cases the amount of grinding to get them ..scorpion elites and tholians are 4 days of dil per wing ..never mind the marks ..then we have the elite fleet versions of them that took a lot of grinding to get, its a lot of time and in game assets that have been diverted to obtaining these ships.
i also remember previously when the pets were nerfed and then lost damage bonuses.
although the 1% elite (prob a few devs in that too) may have seen me as a 20k dps pug in my jem and scim this was a work in progress as was the avenger and other hulls breen corv and so forth .the ships themselves developed as i obtained new items and tweaked accordingly and in my time spend on open team PVE's it was very rare that we would come across a high scoring player (occasionally saw the odd 30k scim thats about it)
It has to do with the OPs thread starting post and how badly cryptic handles "bugs and exploits," often times not fixing actual bugs, and nerfing things that don't need to be altered. Sometimes those alterations are actually moves to highlight something else in a later patch. In this matter of the Hanger pets that don't need messing with, it could be for the epic pets that are coming later.
First, they lie to us and claim the pets are not working right. Then they nerf them. then they role out epic quality hanger pets that do the same thing the pre-nerf pets used to do.
Hmm. I'm a mere level 53. I have B'roth Birds of Prey(AkA Dilithium, not Fleet). Equal level Frigates in the various Empire Defence missions are 39,000 hull. Cruisers are about 90,000. Mine? About 50,000 before levelling.(My own hull in space is 57,000.) Their disruptor damage is fairly poor(Usually in the 100 range. Their Quantum Torpedoes are pretty damaging if they can hit bare hull. I've seen 10,000+, but I can't recall if it's a crit.
Bear in mind that these things are on a 45 second timer between launches. Generally, I'll try to keep them alive if I don't need the help myself. But they do drop, and fairly often right now.
There's also the issue that NPCs have quirks. They don't obey the same rules as us when it comes to activating moves. They can't rebalance their shields themselves, which cuts their survivability.
First, they lie to us and claim the pets are not working right. Then they nerf them. then they role out epic quality hanger pets that do the same thing the pre-nerf pets used to do.
Yeah, Cryptic's money-grubbing ploys are getting so transparent, even glass says "Damn!" :eek:
While damage and HP tuning may be in order for frigates, I don't think the fighter pets need to lose any HP. They're already incredibly weak.
Pretty much the only way to make fighter pets lose survivability (especially against Undine, Voth and similar) from current state of things would be to make them explode *before* they are even launched.
Hangar Pets need balancing, not simple nerfing.
I HATE ships having a hangar as a power. It takes away from the ship having an actual useful trait. That one ROM ship that was first released without the hangar, and then they added the hangar! Ohhh that really make my stomach heave. Pets should not be powers! Or how about make two versions of a ship...one that is an aircraft carrier, and one that is not. For the one that is not, give it some other power, like guns along its port and starboard sides...like cannons are on old world sailing ships. Now THAT would be a cool power! To hell with hangar pet attack ships. TYVM.
I was expecting the same thing. Please give us an UI for ALL pets including seperated saucers. It's very difficult indeed to determine whether or not your saucer is still alive when you are in the midst of battle.
THIS. I can't tell you how many times I've lost track of my Aquarius, Chevron, or Saucer because I have absolutely no way to track it and see if it's still alive.
Seriously, is this too much to ask??? Y'know, since you're gonna nerf them to hell anyway.
It has to do with the OPs thread starting post and how badly cryptic handles "bugs and exploits," often times not fixing actual bugs, and nerfing things that don't need to be altered. Sometimes those alterations are actually moves to highlight something else in a later patch. In this matter of the Hanger pets that don't need messing with, it could be for the epic pets that are coming later.
First, they lie to us and claim the pets are not working right. Then they nerf them. then they role out epic quality hanger pets that do the same thing the pre-nerf pets used to do.
Quoted for Truth!
Plus, I LOVE yer avatar!!
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Did someone say pets having 80k hull? That screams "wrong" all over it.
Do you not understand the difference between a player playing a character and an NPC that doesn't have enough sense to fly away from an explosion, won't redistribute shields, can't change out bridge officers for different powers, ect. ect. ect?
Enemy NPCs are allowed large hull numbers far greater then our ships. Our hanger pets are dumber then many NPC enemies. whats wrong with our friegit type hanger pets having a little extra hull then our carriers, especially when we can get the right consoles for our own ships to have more then 100k hull? Without Janoval Hardpoints...
If players can find ways to reach and pass 100k hull, why should our freiget hanger pets not be allowed 80k hull? They cant do what we do to begin with.
THIS. I can't tell you how many times I've lost track of my Aquarius, Chevron, or Saucer because I have absolutely no way to track it and see if it's still alive.
Seriously, is this too much to ask??? Y'know, since you're gonna nerf them to hell anyway.
This is all so stupid. You know, only reason I slotted those Worker Bees to begin with, is for the set bonus: they were already utterly useless anyway. Nerf em any further, and they'll have negative values!
Comments
At level 59, my yellowstones have over 50k hull at 5 stars. Just rechecked.
Hmm, maybe I should go check on my carrier, after all. :0
I hope you guys know what you're doing. I love STO. I learned to accept and live with your decisions but If this change messes up my joy flying carriers it could be a definite showstopper for me. You know, I've been asking myself why I'm still here while I'm getting frustrated so often instead of enjoying the game, and still paying for it. Nerfing reputations, nerfing skillponts, crafting rarity upgrades once in a blue moon (gave up after 4 upgrades with rarity catalysts for one MK XIV beam failed)... leveling and specializations are now real pain... I don't even think about specializations anymore. And at some point one will have to say to himself no matter how much he loves the game or atmosphere or how much he is addicted... The line must be drawn here! This far, no further!
Like others I'm resigned on this, but not happy.
A 10% reduction? Fine, maaaaaaaybe a15% might not be out of hand! but any more than that you may as well convert them into a fireworks device set that gives the carrier a 20% reduction in hull on use (this simulates the pets warp core breach on death when they are launched)
I think that should be painfully obvious by now given everything that's happened this year.
So there base Hull was 87133... So what? Arn't all NPCs usually higher hull anyways to compensate for their combined lack of DPS and lack of intelligence? They only have 3 Beam arrays and 1 torp.
these are still the numbers I saw from them.
Beam Overload 2: 6174(7179)
Disruptor Beam:
1383
2631 (crit)
1222
1194
With both of them out, it still took them some time to kill the Nassicans in Japori. I must have been in there roughly 10 times longer then I would have, if I was firing at them and not making the hanger pets do all the work.
BUT HEY! if they base it on gear, maybe this will be an upgrade for me? I got Mk 14 ultra-rare weapons and epic consoles. Perhaps I will see 3000+ hits and 6000 crits form them now!
But then again, this is Japori on normal we are talking about, not the new DR content and not on Advanced or Elite difficulty. Just old LoNR normal difficulty Japori.
So, whereas I am suspicious about this entire nerf to begin with (as I think the high hull was actually a 'working as intended' mechanism to counter the lack of survivability to begin with), nerfing our pets will make em never see a single star, guaranteed.
And what's the betting they'll make us pay an over inflated cost by making us go through the crafting system. Now there's an idea. Geko why not add carrier pets as another crafting school? Another way to monetize sto and increase the dilithium sink whilst your at it. Off course you'll have leave out the Jem'Hadar attack ship pets purely to protect that cash cow.
If so, boys and girls, remember, you heard it here first.
Oh I'm sure. Perfect opportunity to fix it so hard we'll give them money to unfix it.
It seems the devs are hell bent on destroying the game in pursuit of numbers and metrics from the experiments to introduce sub-korean grind mechanics into a western stylised game - In either case, if I drop sto or sto drops me, all my zen, ect will be unused as I'll never head for a pwe nor cryptic game, not even if they brought out a giant robot battle mmo with space battles.
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Previous times I left this game based on burn out, didn't have this feeling of reaching critical mass.
Other MMOs where I felt this coming on, I did reach that point and have not gone back to them.
I have been looking at Star Citizen for a little while. Aftyer completing the DR story mission and getting to 60, I been feeling burnt out on STO again. The feeling of reaching critical mass was occurring before Halloween. Now we are seeing another hit to content?
It really seems like this isn't about money. It seems more like a wide spread experiment in group psychology.
If it was about money, then concerns about customer satisfaction would have them fixing a lot of the bugs they have ignored for years. Other MMOs whose focus is money, fix the bugs this game doesn't.
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Joined January 2009
Deliberate bone to try and deflect anger more like, hoping the news of a new 'shiney shiney' will distract us from their actions
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that makes them sound like the Obama administration.
lol
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Probably secret mooslams!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Firstly you nerf the game and levels that were playable and instead of adding new exciting levels that will make a nice challenge -- and would be no open teaming due to the "pug" factor - you nerf it ruining a large portion of fun for players and players who were developing thier toons to be competitive.
especially if you was carrying a lower dps player in your team for example a sci whos abilities were not in weaponry or a healing engi,
and for yourself to get back to what you was able to do previously in your role you have to pay out in dilithium and materials in the hope you get a rare bonus on your item unless of course you spend thousands upon thousands on one item till it does achive the required bonus.
Pets as of late were providing a distraction for certain stfs eg disconnected allowing you to help the borg escape although regularly blew up when fighting cubes ,also in some cases the amount of grinding to get them ..scorpion elites and tholians are 4 days of dil per wing ..never mind the marks ..then we have the elite fleet versions of them that took a lot of grinding to get, its a lot of time and in game assets that have been diverted to obtaining these ships.
i also remember previously when the pets were nerfed and then lost damage bonuses.
although the 1% elite (prob a few devs in that too) may have seen me as a 20k dps pug in my jem and scim this was a work in progress as was the avenger and other hulls breen corv and so forth .the ships themselves developed as i obtained new items and tweaked accordingly and in my time spend on open team PVE's it was very rare that we would come across a high scoring player (occasionally saw the odd 30k scim thats about it)
First, they lie to us and claim the pets are not working right. Then they nerf them. then they role out epic quality hanger pets that do the same thing the pre-nerf pets used to do.
Did someone say pets having 80k hull? That screams "wrong" all over it.
STO Screenshot Archive
Bear in mind that these things are on a 45 second timer between launches. Generally, I'll try to keep them alive if I don't need the help myself. But they do drop, and fairly often right now.
There's also the issue that NPCs have quirks. They don't obey the same rules as us when it comes to activating moves. They can't rebalance their shields themselves, which cuts their survivability.
Yeah, Cryptic's money-grubbing ploys are getting so transparent, even glass says "Damn!" :eek:
Pretty much the only way to make fighter pets lose survivability (especially against Undine, Voth and similar) from current state of things would be to make them explode *before* they are even launched.
Hangar Pets need balancing, not simple nerfing.
I HATE ships having a hangar as a power. It takes away from the ship having an actual useful trait. That one ROM ship that was first released without the hangar, and then they added the hangar! Ohhh that really make my stomach heave. Pets should not be powers! Or how about make two versions of a ship...one that is an aircraft carrier, and one that is not. For the one that is not, give it some other power, like guns along its port and starboard sides...like cannons are on old world sailing ships. Now THAT would be a cool power! To hell with hangar pet attack ships. TYVM.
THIS. I can't tell you how many times I've lost track of my Aquarius, Chevron, or Saucer because I have absolutely no way to track it and see if it's still alive.
Seriously, is this too much to ask??? Y'know, since you're gonna nerf them to hell anyway.
Quoted for Truth!
Plus, I LOVE yer avatar!!
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Do you not understand the difference between a player playing a character and an NPC that doesn't have enough sense to fly away from an explosion, won't redistribute shields, can't change out bridge officers for different powers, ect. ect. ect?
Enemy NPCs are allowed large hull numbers far greater then our ships. Our hanger pets are dumber then many NPC enemies. whats wrong with our friegit type hanger pets having a little extra hull then our carriers, especially when we can get the right consoles for our own ships to have more then 100k hull? Without Janoval Hardpoints...
If players can find ways to reach and pass 100k hull, why should our freiget hanger pets not be allowed 80k hull? They cant do what we do to begin with.
This is all so stupid. You know, only reason I slotted those Worker Bees to begin with, is for the set bonus: they were already utterly useless anyway. Nerf em any further, and they'll have negative values!
And yes, pet UI for Chevron, need it!